Romania in the Early Middle Ages has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
1200s is ambiguous: it can either mean 1200 to 1209 or 100 years-a century. So what are the facts? 1200s (decade) or 13th century, the standard for century notation? Thanks Hmains ( talk) 03:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:14, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
"Romanian did not preserve Latin words connected to urbanized society. Likewise, the term sat ("village") may have been borrowed from Albanian and not directly inherited. The Medieval Romanian word obște 'village community' came from Slavic, and the Romanian word for its boundaries (hotar) is of Hungarian origin."
This Passage take's sources as 3 pages From Spinei's Book and the rest are litterally dictionaries of Romanian, Albanian and Hungarian. Even so the pages 249-250 from Spinei that given as source aren't even about words and their origin, but a mentions of structure of "obște" and "hotar."
I always knew "cetate"(citadel in modern romanian) and "sat"(village in modern romanian) as romanian words surviving from latin.
Anyways I'm fairly sure this is a case of individual research from one of the editors. DiGrande ( talk) 17:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Borsoka the passage is a near word by word quotations of the source. The old variant was a synthesis of two sources, one of them (Kopecký) dealing mostly with the topic of fishing and water fauna. The new source is a complete analysis of the entire field and is be double checked by Schulte: "Loanwords from Slavic have, in many cases, replaced inherited words even where their meanings have been continually present since Roman times..." - Loanwords in Romanian, page 244, 3rd paragraph. Any particular reason to disagree with this? Aristeus01 ( talk) 15:36, 29 January 2023 (UTC) Your proposed changes are the following:
If you read Kopecký's work, you will realise that he deals other topics as well. Borsoka ( talk) 02:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
I suggest to delete this map:
/info/en/?search=Romania_in_the_Early_Middle_Ages#/media/File:RomaniaHistRegions.jpg
I do not understand why does some territories in this map "historical regions of Romania" which belong to Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia, Ukraine. It is total inaccurate.
The modern Romanian state was established in 1859. The united principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia officially adopted the name Romania in 1866, later gain independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1878. The German-French Prince Karl of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, proclaimed the first king of Romania in 1881. Pre-Romanian states, Wallachia was founded in 1330, Moldavia was founded in 1346.
The mentioned regions in the map how can be "historical regions of Romania" if those regions never belonged to Romania? Which means this map is not only inaccurate, but irredentist. By the way, the Romanian ultra-nationalists like to use this map with this slogen: "From the Dniester to the Tisza". This is a verse from the poem "Doina" published by famous Romanian writer, Mihai Eminescu in 1883. Why would those regions in the map "historical regions of Romania", just because that is a 19th century ultra-nationalist slogan?
For example, Magyar tribes of Arpad came from today's Moldova, Ukraine. Principality Hungary occupied Vienna, half of today Austria until the Enns river in the 10th century. King Matthias of Hungary occupied huge Austrian, Czech, Polish lands in the 15th century. Poland had 2 Hungarian kings (Louis I, Bathory). Wallachia was a Hungarian vassal state (Ungro-Vlachia), and it had some Hungarian poulaiton. Moldavia was founded as a buffer state by the Hungarian king in 1346 after when the Hungarian army defeated a large Tatar army in 1345 and the Golden Horde was pushed back behind the Dniester River. I do not see any Hungarian map which would say "historical regions of Hungary" which was outside of the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary. Habsburg Monarchy gave Holy Roman Emperors, ruled Spain, Netherlands, Hungary, Bohemia, Poland, etc... I do not see any Austrian historical map which would name those countries of "historical regions of Austria". However comparing with these examples, those mentioned regions in the problematic map never belonged to any pre-Romanian states (Wallachia and Moldavia), and modern Romanian state.
I do not know any or how many Romanians ever lived in that mentioned "historical regions of Romania" outside Romania, but for example, many Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Turks, Russians, etc live in USA, Austria, England, Italy, Germany, etc and nobody say that those regions would be "historical land of the mentioned countries".
OrionNimrod ( talk) 19:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
2A01:CB1C:821F:A400:B9E0:CB11:12AE:C234 09:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB1C:821F:A400:B9E0:CB11:12AE:C234 ( talk)
Romania in the Early Middle Ages has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
1200s is ambiguous: it can either mean 1200 to 1209 or 100 years-a century. So what are the facts? 1200s (decade) or 13th century, the standard for century notation? Thanks Hmains ( talk) 03:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:14, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
"Romanian did not preserve Latin words connected to urbanized society. Likewise, the term sat ("village") may have been borrowed from Albanian and not directly inherited. The Medieval Romanian word obște 'village community' came from Slavic, and the Romanian word for its boundaries (hotar) is of Hungarian origin."
This Passage take's sources as 3 pages From Spinei's Book and the rest are litterally dictionaries of Romanian, Albanian and Hungarian. Even so the pages 249-250 from Spinei that given as source aren't even about words and their origin, but a mentions of structure of "obște" and "hotar."
I always knew "cetate"(citadel in modern romanian) and "sat"(village in modern romanian) as romanian words surviving from latin.
Anyways I'm fairly sure this is a case of individual research from one of the editors. DiGrande ( talk) 17:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Borsoka the passage is a near word by word quotations of the source. The old variant was a synthesis of two sources, one of them (Kopecký) dealing mostly with the topic of fishing and water fauna. The new source is a complete analysis of the entire field and is be double checked by Schulte: "Loanwords from Slavic have, in many cases, replaced inherited words even where their meanings have been continually present since Roman times..." - Loanwords in Romanian, page 244, 3rd paragraph. Any particular reason to disagree with this? Aristeus01 ( talk) 15:36, 29 January 2023 (UTC) Your proposed changes are the following:
If you read Kopecký's work, you will realise that he deals other topics as well. Borsoka ( talk) 02:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
I suggest to delete this map:
/info/en/?search=Romania_in_the_Early_Middle_Ages#/media/File:RomaniaHistRegions.jpg
I do not understand why does some territories in this map "historical regions of Romania" which belong to Bulgaria, Hungary, Serbia, Ukraine. It is total inaccurate.
The modern Romanian state was established in 1859. The united principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia officially adopted the name Romania in 1866, later gain independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1878. The German-French Prince Karl of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, proclaimed the first king of Romania in 1881. Pre-Romanian states, Wallachia was founded in 1330, Moldavia was founded in 1346.
The mentioned regions in the map how can be "historical regions of Romania" if those regions never belonged to Romania? Which means this map is not only inaccurate, but irredentist. By the way, the Romanian ultra-nationalists like to use this map with this slogen: "From the Dniester to the Tisza". This is a verse from the poem "Doina" published by famous Romanian writer, Mihai Eminescu in 1883. Why would those regions in the map "historical regions of Romania", just because that is a 19th century ultra-nationalist slogan?
For example, Magyar tribes of Arpad came from today's Moldova, Ukraine. Principality Hungary occupied Vienna, half of today Austria until the Enns river in the 10th century. King Matthias of Hungary occupied huge Austrian, Czech, Polish lands in the 15th century. Poland had 2 Hungarian kings (Louis I, Bathory). Wallachia was a Hungarian vassal state (Ungro-Vlachia), and it had some Hungarian poulaiton. Moldavia was founded as a buffer state by the Hungarian king in 1346 after when the Hungarian army defeated a large Tatar army in 1345 and the Golden Horde was pushed back behind the Dniester River. I do not see any Hungarian map which would say "historical regions of Hungary" which was outside of the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary. Habsburg Monarchy gave Holy Roman Emperors, ruled Spain, Netherlands, Hungary, Bohemia, Poland, etc... I do not see any Austrian historical map which would name those countries of "historical regions of Austria". However comparing with these examples, those mentioned regions in the problematic map never belonged to any pre-Romanian states (Wallachia and Moldavia), and modern Romanian state.
I do not know any or how many Romanians ever lived in that mentioned "historical regions of Romania" outside Romania, but for example, many Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Turks, Russians, etc live in USA, Austria, England, Italy, Germany, etc and nobody say that those regions would be "historical land of the mentioned countries".
OrionNimrod ( talk) 19:16, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
2A01:CB1C:821F:A400:B9E0:CB11:12AE:C234 09:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB1C:821F:A400:B9E0:CB11:12AE:C234 ( talk)