![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's entirely unclear what the last entry in 'Fictional Portrayals' means - apparently something in Dutch? 'Still one has to shout these days: "smerige heterokoek, smerige nazijuristen van Gent, ik wil mijn stemrecht terug en daar zo snel mogelijk van op de hoogte gebracht worden' There's no attribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.203.194.83 ( talk) 19:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
imho, the excerpt from the questioning quoted in the article does not show any methodology, the guy just abuses the count. But I don't want to remove that significant a part from an article without a second opinion, so I'm asking for comments on that one. Any objections?
And, I'm not sure about the proceedings of the Volksgerichtshof, but removing belts, suspenders and neckties sounds like a perfectly normal way to treat prisoners, not a special way "to make them ridiculous".
Freisler had people even remove their denture, clearly on purpose to humiliate them. David 62.224.199.122 06:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Also I have trouble believing that the Nazis would be dumb enough to put a guy who quotes the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland in court (as claimed in the next paragraph) in charge of important trials like the one against the White Rose people. Are there any reliable sources for this? Eliot Stearns 16:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
A connotation to Freisler's death: Since my english is not so brilliant, i don't want to mess around in the article. In newer german literature it is mentioned, that Freisler didn't die in his cellar, but was struck by a piece of a bombshell. Interestingly, a passing doctor was asked to treat Freisler, but he declared Freisler to be dead. Still he refused to sign a death certificate. He - the doctor - was on his way to Freisler's boss (Thierack, Minister of Justice) to plea for mercy for his brother - who was sentenced to death shortly before that incident. This is described in a book "Der Hinrichter" from 1993 by Helmut Ortner(citation can be found - in german - at http://www.zeit.de/2005/06/A-Freisler?page=5 ) Anyone keen to look for an english source? David 62.224.199.122 06:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
"Between 1942 and 1945, more than 5,000 death sentences were handed out, and of these, 2,600 through the court's First Senate, which Freisler headed. Thus, Freisler alone was responsible, in his three years on the court, for as many death sentences as all other senate sessions of the court together in the entire time the court existed, between 1934 and 1945." - doesn't follow at all, since there is no mention of how many death sentences were handed out by other judges between 1934 and 1941. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.219.49 ( talk) 16:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
The reference to the Wannsee Conference is incorrect. It is true that he "stood in for Minister Franz Schlegelberger". But the second part of the sentence "as regarding the detailed plans of the Final Solution, the murder of all European Jews" does not follow logically. He stood in at the conference, he did not "stand in as regarding the murder of all European Jews". Furthermore it is incorrect as a summary of the Wannsee Conference. There were no "detailed plans for the...murder of all European Jews" discussed at the Wannsee Conference. 122.59.167.152 ( talk) 04:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Roland Freisler/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
---|---|
I think the article is weak. As noted a citation is needed for Freisler. Though not impossible in the chaos of post WWI Germany, the sudden conversion of a "fanatical communist" to a Nazi, needs a reference. The problem is compounded when the movie's subtitle has Sophie's communist handmaid say that Freisler, "as a Soviet Commissar, will need to put on a good show for his rehabilitation." This is significant because this film is the 2nd on the White Rose. The 1st, titled "The White Rose," was a perfectly fine film. This raises the question, why the need for a second film? To pass critical muster as a film of historical biography, "Sophie Scholl: The Last Days," must show itself free of factitious anti-communist intent. The "White Rose" has a number of spoken references to linking up with communist resistance circles, and a vivid scene of Sophie colluding with a female Russian P.O.W. to plant duds in the shells they're assembling at the munitions plant. In contrast this film takes great pains to distance the White Rose from communists, and to paint the youth in distinctly nationalist hues, representing the submerged conscience of a "German people" yearning beneath the surface to break free of totalitarianism. It seems this film ought to be controversial as a post-DDR remake, analogous to "The Lives of Others," and "Goodbye, Lenin" (anti-ostalgie and ostalgie films respectively). At the least a credible citation is needed re Freisler. Otherwise it ought to be scrapped or tagged as "controverted" in some way. Rmontgomery 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)RMontgomery Rmontgomery 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 04:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
"...The ugly bald prick was often shouting and occasionally yelling at them ..."
What is the distinction between shouting and yelling here? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
23.119.204.117 (
talk)
02:51, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Freisler's widow survived the war, and decades later there was a dispute in the former state of West Germany whether she should receive a state pension (on the basis that her husband had been a civil servant). She lost the dispute. Is this worth mentioning, and if so, does anyone have a suitable reference? 86.154.101.56 ( talk) 12:31, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
First of all: I beg your pardon for my awful English. The German version of the same article about R.F. says: "2017 urteilte das Oberlandesgericht München, dass der Vergleich eines Richters mit Roland Freisler eine Wahrnehmung berechtigter Interessen darstellen könne, sofern der Vergleich im Rahmen eines anhängigen Gerichtsverfahrens erfolge und die juristische Argumentation im Kampf ums Recht nicht völlig in den Hintergrund trete. [1]" Is it possible to transfer this in the English article? Greetings from Munich, Germany ErwinLindemann ( talk) 10:06, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
References
"...wearing a blood scarlet judicial robe..."
The German constitutional court judges dress up like this even today. Perhaps it's just a legal tradition and doesn't have very much to do with Nazis and Freisler? 2A02:AA1:161E:A51C:A8C0:2BA2:8D5A:DCF3 ( talk) 10:17, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Another version of Freisler's death states that he was killed by a British bomb that came through the ceiling of his courtroom as he was trying to save two women, who survived the explosion - The day of his death is not questioned, it was February 3, 1945, wasn't it ? Why then a "british bomb", if there was only an US attack this day ? Very strange "version", indeed. -- 129.187.244.19 ( talk) 14:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
His widow's Wikipedia article should be consolidated into Roland Freisler's article. She is completely non-notable in her own right. 65.88.88.56 ( talk) 23:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's entirely unclear what the last entry in 'Fictional Portrayals' means - apparently something in Dutch? 'Still one has to shout these days: "smerige heterokoek, smerige nazijuristen van Gent, ik wil mijn stemrecht terug en daar zo snel mogelijk van op de hoogte gebracht worden' There's no attribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.203.194.83 ( talk) 19:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
imho, the excerpt from the questioning quoted in the article does not show any methodology, the guy just abuses the count. But I don't want to remove that significant a part from an article without a second opinion, so I'm asking for comments on that one. Any objections?
And, I'm not sure about the proceedings of the Volksgerichtshof, but removing belts, suspenders and neckties sounds like a perfectly normal way to treat prisoners, not a special way "to make them ridiculous".
Freisler had people even remove their denture, clearly on purpose to humiliate them. David 62.224.199.122 06:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Also I have trouble believing that the Nazis would be dumb enough to put a guy who quotes the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland in court (as claimed in the next paragraph) in charge of important trials like the one against the White Rose people. Are there any reliable sources for this? Eliot Stearns 16:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
A connotation to Freisler's death: Since my english is not so brilliant, i don't want to mess around in the article. In newer german literature it is mentioned, that Freisler didn't die in his cellar, but was struck by a piece of a bombshell. Interestingly, a passing doctor was asked to treat Freisler, but he declared Freisler to be dead. Still he refused to sign a death certificate. He - the doctor - was on his way to Freisler's boss (Thierack, Minister of Justice) to plea for mercy for his brother - who was sentenced to death shortly before that incident. This is described in a book "Der Hinrichter" from 1993 by Helmut Ortner(citation can be found - in german - at http://www.zeit.de/2005/06/A-Freisler?page=5 ) Anyone keen to look for an english source? David 62.224.199.122 06:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
"Between 1942 and 1945, more than 5,000 death sentences were handed out, and of these, 2,600 through the court's First Senate, which Freisler headed. Thus, Freisler alone was responsible, in his three years on the court, for as many death sentences as all other senate sessions of the court together in the entire time the court existed, between 1934 and 1945." - doesn't follow at all, since there is no mention of how many death sentences were handed out by other judges between 1934 and 1941. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.219.49 ( talk) 16:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
The reference to the Wannsee Conference is incorrect. It is true that he "stood in for Minister Franz Schlegelberger". But the second part of the sentence "as regarding the detailed plans of the Final Solution, the murder of all European Jews" does not follow logically. He stood in at the conference, he did not "stand in as regarding the murder of all European Jews". Furthermore it is incorrect as a summary of the Wannsee Conference. There were no "detailed plans for the...murder of all European Jews" discussed at the Wannsee Conference. 122.59.167.152 ( talk) 04:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Roland Freisler/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
---|---|
I think the article is weak. As noted a citation is needed for Freisler. Though not impossible in the chaos of post WWI Germany, the sudden conversion of a "fanatical communist" to a Nazi, needs a reference. The problem is compounded when the movie's subtitle has Sophie's communist handmaid say that Freisler, "as a Soviet Commissar, will need to put on a good show for his rehabilitation." This is significant because this film is the 2nd on the White Rose. The 1st, titled "The White Rose," was a perfectly fine film. This raises the question, why the need for a second film? To pass critical muster as a film of historical biography, "Sophie Scholl: The Last Days," must show itself free of factitious anti-communist intent. The "White Rose" has a number of spoken references to linking up with communist resistance circles, and a vivid scene of Sophie colluding with a female Russian P.O.W. to plant duds in the shells they're assembling at the munitions plant. In contrast this film takes great pains to distance the White Rose from communists, and to paint the youth in distinctly nationalist hues, representing the submerged conscience of a "German people" yearning beneath the surface to break free of totalitarianism. It seems this film ought to be controversial as a post-DDR remake, analogous to "The Lives of Others," and "Goodbye, Lenin" (anti-ostalgie and ostalgie films respectively). At the least a credible citation is needed re Freisler. Otherwise it ought to be scrapped or tagged as "controverted" in some way. Rmontgomery 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)RMontgomery Rmontgomery 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 03:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 04:49, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
"...The ugly bald prick was often shouting and occasionally yelling at them ..."
What is the distinction between shouting and yelling here? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
23.119.204.117 (
talk)
02:51, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Freisler's widow survived the war, and decades later there was a dispute in the former state of West Germany whether she should receive a state pension (on the basis that her husband had been a civil servant). She lost the dispute. Is this worth mentioning, and if so, does anyone have a suitable reference? 86.154.101.56 ( talk) 12:31, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
First of all: I beg your pardon for my awful English. The German version of the same article about R.F. says: "2017 urteilte das Oberlandesgericht München, dass der Vergleich eines Richters mit Roland Freisler eine Wahrnehmung berechtigter Interessen darstellen könne, sofern der Vergleich im Rahmen eines anhängigen Gerichtsverfahrens erfolge und die juristische Argumentation im Kampf ums Recht nicht völlig in den Hintergrund trete. [1]" Is it possible to transfer this in the English article? Greetings from Munich, Germany ErwinLindemann ( talk) 10:06, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
References
"...wearing a blood scarlet judicial robe..."
The German constitutional court judges dress up like this even today. Perhaps it's just a legal tradition and doesn't have very much to do with Nazis and Freisler? 2A02:AA1:161E:A51C:A8C0:2BA2:8D5A:DCF3 ( talk) 10:17, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Another version of Freisler's death states that he was killed by a British bomb that came through the ceiling of his courtroom as he was trying to save two women, who survived the explosion - The day of his death is not questioned, it was February 3, 1945, wasn't it ? Why then a "british bomb", if there was only an US attack this day ? Very strange "version", indeed. -- 129.187.244.19 ( talk) 14:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
His widow's Wikipedia article should be consolidated into Roland Freisler's article. She is completely non-notable in her own right. 65.88.88.56 ( talk) 23:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)