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These recent edits, restore a political figure and a few organizations as belonging to this category. The edit summary of one of these edits cites Oxford Oxford English Dictionary which includes "a moderate or liberal Republican" as a definition.
I think this article's subject is a particular historical group or trend still alluded to in the lede:
members of the Republican Party (GOP) in the 1930s–1970s who held moderate to liberal views on domestic issues, similar to those of Nelson Rockefeller
... which I suppose might eventually be wiped to complete the transition, presumably after Thomas E. Dewey and Abraham Lincoln are added.
This drift toward making the article catch-all for Republicans denounced as "liberal" by certain political activists still seems like a BLP issue to me. / edg ☺ ☭ 04:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Also, Liberal Republican (as capitalized in the current article intro) should not be capitalized. The US currently has no organized "Liberal Republican" party or movement separate from the existing GOP. The term Republican liberal would be preferable because it does not have this implication, and also helps distinguish from the Liberal Republican Party (United States), which was an actual US political party. / edg ☺ ☭ 04:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
This very subject heading seems to violate Wikipedia's standards. If an entry read, "Individual X is considered moderate," it would likely be tagged quickly for "weasel words" and removed if no one clarified who considered that individual moderate and produced a citation.
As it stands, this is a vague list of three Senators who voted against a signature Trump agenda item once, and two (Capito and Young) who have shown little "moderation," though I suspect that they're listed because they belong the Republican Main Street Partnership.
I suggest that for anyone listed here, there be some explanation provided in the entry for inclusion. If this can't be done, I suggest that the individual (and if necessary, this section) be removed. Mgllama ( talk) 17:38, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Anthony Kennedy and John Paul Stevens can not be on the same list as having the same ideology because they never did. Stevens joined the Court as the most conservative member and pretty much did not change any of his views; his views simply became the most "liberal" as the Court lurched sharply conservative. Stevens was on the left of the Court by 2000; Kennedy was firmly in the middle of the Court and substantially to the right of Stevens. If Stevens and Kennedy are BOTH considered "Rockefeller Republicans," then you have to add Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer to the list as well, as they are ideologically between Kennedy and Stevens. The solution is to remove Kennedy, because he is not a Rockefeller Republican; he's a Reagan Republican. 98.10.165.90 ( talk) 23:33, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Liberal Conservatism - "Liberal conservatism incorporates the classical liberal view of minimal government intervention in the economy, according to which individuals should be free to participate in the market and generate wealth without government interference"
Rockerfeller Republicans are more economically interventionist - "They espoused government and private investments in environmentalism, healthcare, and higher education as necessities for a better society and economic growth in the tradition of Rockefeller. They were strong supporters of state colleges and universities, low tuition and large research budgets. They favored infrastructure improvements such as highway projects." ..... "they favored balanced budgets and were not averse to raising taxes in order to achieve them. Connecticut Senator Prescott Bush once called for Congress to "raise the required revenues by approving whatever levels of taxation may be necessary". A critical element was their support for labor unions and especially the building trades appreciated the heavy spending on infrastructure. In turn, the unions gave these politicians enough support to overcome the anti-union rural element in the Republican Party. As the unions weakened after the 1970s, so too did the need for Republicans to cooperate with them. This transformation played into the hands of the more conservative Republicans, who did not want to collaborate with labor unions in the first place and now no longer needed to do so to carry statewide elections."
They were more liberal in the American Sense. Liberal in Liberal Conservatism is a different concept from the American one. 115.70.195.167 ( talk) 23:34, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Supreme Court justices were included. I do not question the editor's intent at all, but I am curious if this is the place to list Supreme Court justices given that their rulings are not directly tied to a particular party or ideology? Yes, we know that they have ideologies and that their rulings tend to reflect a certain perspective of judicial philosophy, but I am not sure that those judicial philosophies could be accurately described as "Rockefeller Republican." For example, Anthony Kennedy is regarded by most experts and professional court-watchers as a "moderate" or "moderate conservative" justice, but I do not know if that is in the same political faction context in which this page finds itself. I'm not going to change it, but I wanted to raise the question. SeminarianJohn ( talk) 18:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
They may speak out and take action against Trump but they are conservative in every other fashion stop adding them on here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiSantis19 ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
McCain may have been at times a thorn in the side of the two most recent Republican presidents - George W. Bush and Donald Trump - but he was never a Rockefeller Republican. Prior to the Bush II administration, McCain was a vanilla down-the-line conservative, except possibly on the issue of Campaign Finance Reform (see Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, AKA "McCain-Feingold"). He supported the impeachment and removal of President Bill Clinton (see https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/). He was consistent pro-life (see https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18632802). His lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union ("ACU"_ was 81 (see https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-john-mccain-a-maverick/). That's much higher than your typical Rockefeller Republican - Chris Shays for example had an ACU rating in the 40s (see http://acuratings.conservative.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/05/2007guide.pdf), and John Chafee's lifetime rating was in the 20s (see https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/53342/john-chafee?categoryId=&type=F,R,E,E,E&p=2).
Same goes for Adam Kinzinger. He was first elected in 2010 with backing from Sarah Palin (see https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/palin-backs-three-house-challengers-035161) and Americans for Prosperity (a "Tea Party" group backed by the Kochs) (see https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-xpm-2011-feb-06-la-na-koch-brothers-20110206-story.html). Perceptions that he's a "moderate" or even a Rockefeller Republican seems to stem from his opposition to Trump, not because of any kinship with the Rockefeller Republicans in terms of either ideology or style. Tettyan ( talk) 01:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
John E. Sununu is likewise not a Rockefeller Republican. While he broke with his party on a few key issues, he also retained the support of the conservative Club for Growth throughout his career in the House and in the Senate. Tettyan ( talk) 01:10, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I understand McCain and Kinzinger (definently kinzinger) but John sununu goes a little to far for me. He was a rockefeller republican
I would suggest for John McCain adding him but just like for Rudy Giuliani add a considered Rockefeller Republican until such and such year because McCain believed in some liberal ideas like Free trade and he lambasted some conservatives like talk radio hosts and instead of supporting a ban on abortion he voted against it, and at the end of his life (2013 - death) h actually supported gay marriage and supported transgender rights. He also supported some liberal economic policies. McCain also supported DACA and in his book The Restless Wave, he said that we shouldn't build a wall on the southern border. He also supported the Americans With disabilities act which barely any Republican voted for. As a compromise I think we should add him to the list of former Rockefeller Republican Senators but add considered one until whenever he was considered a regular conservative to please the ones who think he wasn't a Rockefeller Republican. But in my opinion based on his later life and life before 2006 he was a moderate Rockefeller Republican. -- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 15:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The Adam Kinzinger yes is a sort of opinion but John McCain isn't an opinion he did everything I have said he did, and I thought of a solution to please the ones who think he was and the ones who weren't again, just like Rudy, we could put a (considered one until such year) because during most of his time in congress and only was a little more center-right in the last few congressional years. If you read my no. 1 source, which I acknowledge I cannot present it to anyone because I d not know how to (new here so I'm still learning the rules), which is a primary source. He did it because that is what he said on the campaign trail, he tried to get the vote to stay there and serve the people of Arizona (though I cannot remember exactly what he stated). He did support free trade and even liberal social issues at the end of his life. I am not gong to reveal my primary source mostly because I really don't know how to. Though I cannot cite a specific source that said he was a Rockefeller Republican, then again most sources don't say "Rockefeller republican", they say moderate republican, there are plenty of sources that say he was. Also he fought the Bush tax cuts, stated that the Trump tax reform bill was "far from perfect", and was (again) a moderate during most congresses mostly until 2007 where he had to cozy up to the establishment of the GOP to win the nomination, even though he knew he wasn't going to be that.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:34, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Though I cannot cite a specific source that said he was a Rockefeller Republican...
We should add them, but only the politically active ones like Frank Sinatra who I would consider a Kennedy Republican because he had this awkward relationship with him (you know what I mean with the song High Hopes) but he switched to the Republican side after 1972.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 16:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh, no I was just pitching an idea, nothing else. I'm perfectly fine that it can't be, it was just asking if we could add that.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:17, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
There is a massive amount of original research in the #Current officeholders section that needs to be addressed. I started going through the names in the section, checking the U.S. Senators first. There are five sources for the three Senators in the list. I checked each source for mention of 'Rockefeller Republicans', and tagged any that didn't support it. As it turned out, none of the sources support the inclusion of those three Senators. I spot-checked a few of the Governors, U.S. reps, and Mayors, and didn't find 'Rockefeller' mentioned in any of the handful I checked. Rather than check and tag each of them individually, I added an {{ Original research}} banner to the section, linking to this discussion.
I suspect that none of the fifteen current officeholders listed in this section belong here, as none of them are Rockefeller Republicans. The WP:ONUS of inclusion here is on the editors who added them. Per our WP:Verifiability policy:
All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed.
These officeholders are all living people, and thus any assertion about them is also subject to WP:BLP policy, stressing WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV. Accordingly, I am issuing this formal challenge: each name in the section must have a proper inline citation attached to it that supports their inclusion, or it will be removed. Bear in mind that this topic is subject to ArbCom Discretionary sanctions, and any source added must be of impeccable reliability, and must explicitly support inclusion of the officeholder. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 22:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
So, I found 1 source for susan collins of maine that (I'm pretty sure) states that she is a Rockefeller Republican, I didn't have tie to read the entire thing so could somebody do it and check my work? https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/526294-the-magnificent-moderation-of-susan-collins — Preceding unsigned comment added by General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk • contribs) 17:50, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict) I've gone through this section, subsection by subsection, removing unsourced or insufficiently sourced items. As there was nothing left, I've removed the section header as well. If anyone would like to work on sourcing this section so it may be readded, ping me and I'll restore it here to the Talk page, so you can work on it here. Lmk, Mathglot ( talk) 17:55, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Okay, becaue I was sort of rushing through from getting notified from emails. Thanks for reviewing the source-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:08, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we keep the Current office holders blank for now because I am looking but I can't find a source that indicates them being a rockefeller republican that isn't an opinion piece.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:11, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Just to be clear what is considered original research so I know if my sources are original research. General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:23, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
|reason=
parameter to explain why). As far as your questions about original research, since that's a more general question not specifically related to Rockefeller Republicans, please see your Talk page.
Mathglot (
talk)
21:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)ya that is exactly what I meant by keeping it blank-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 22:33, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
How about instead of trying to deleting and adding (I a partially responsible for that action), we make compromises for the disputed Rockefeller Republicans and settle those issues, because there are people (including me) who want different people on the list. One reason is because we get different sources, my sources tell me that some of these people are moderate Republicans. We need to compromise on those and try to make a compromise, so then we can all agree which ones are Rockefeller Republicans ad which ones aren't, because right now, we don't. You can argue Justice Kennedy wasn't or McCain wasn't (or vice versa) but we can't just keep arguing and deleting (partial blame is on me), so I think we should compromise on people like J. McCain, or M. Romney, or A. Kinzinger, or E. Stefanik, or A. Kennedy, the list goes on and on so here we should compromise instead of delete and argue.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
No I mean with sources Mathglot because my sources which again I cannot name because I do not know if you could say he was. not by opinion. I do mean with reliable sources. I should have stated this more clearly but when I said compromise, I meant until everyone who edits the article can agree on which source to use and agreed on if these people were or weren't. Though I do have to say after using newer sources I can tell you Sununu (john E), McCain, and Kinzinger weren't Rockefeller Republicans, they were moderate yes but not Rockefeller Republican based on Rockefeller, ON THE ISSUES not the website. Though I think we should see which sources are reliable because somebody on wikipedia could then just say Donald Trump or Marjorie Taylor Greene are rockefeller republicans, so which sources are reliable sources?-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 17:44, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
I've tagged section Former officeholders as containing original research. I notice that GDDE has added some sources; two out of three are these are valid; good job. The other one (Jeffords) fails verification. Haven't checked the rest yet, but they need citations as well. Good job so far, keep on going. Mathglot ( talk) 23:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
The "Current Officeholders" section has recently been removed. In the last few months, mainly due to Trump's second impeachment, there have been a lot of people adding and removing people for various reasons. While voting to convict Trump shouldn't automatically warrant an inclusion on this list, there are sources that describe Bill Cassidy and Mitt Romney as moderate/Rockefeller Republicans. In fact, Newt Gingrich explicitly called Romney a Rockefeller Republican in the 2012 Republican primaries. I think that this page should be the Republican equivalent of New Democrats, as both pages describe moderates in both parties. If someone has a reliable source describing them as a moderate/Rockefeller Republican, they should not be removed from this list. There are also sources describing Lindsey Graham and Rob Portman as moderates. Any Republican that was part of the Gang of 14 can also go on this list due to sources describing them as moderates. I would like to note that Joe Biden is included on the New Democrats page because he has a reliable source, despite the fact that a some people would not consider him a moderate nowadays due to his disagreements with fellow Democrats like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. GamerKiller2347 ( talk) 19:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't Charlie Crist be included among Rockefeller Republicans? At least while he was a Republican? Or should he be excluded because he did move to Independents and, then, to Democratic party? Goliath74 ( talk) 18:13, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Bush Sr was pretty middle-of-the-road as president, especially compared to his son. Steelydanfan03 ( talk) 19:49, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the recent good faith addition of 51 names in rev. 1055083642 of 19:36, 13 November 2021, each one with its own, separate citation added. Unfortunately, except in one case, none of the sources supported the officeholder as a Rockefeller Republican, and thus per WP:Verifiability has been removed. (The exception was the addition of Arlen Specter, which was properly sourced to WaPo/Rucker-2012, and has been retained.) Details of the removal:
List of names removed for lack of sourcing
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---|
The following names were added in rev. 1055083642, but were not supported by the source given:
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Any name not supported by a reliable reference which identifies them as a Rockefeller Republican is subject to removal by Wikipedia policies, primarily WP:V and WP:SYNTH. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 10:21, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
I dropped misstatements and unsupported claims from the WP:LEADSENTENCE, both with respect to style (using "Liberal Republicans" capitalized, as if it were a political party, which it isn't (not in the United States, at least), rather than just liberal Republicans, a simple description that might be used about some politicians in news reporting. The source Stebenne (2006) was used to assert the claim that Rockefeller Republicans were "called" Liberal Republicans as if that was some kind of nickname or alternative party name—which it isn't—unlike the way G.O.P. actually is another name for the Republican party, . Checking that source, there is no support for the assertion previously in the lead sentence on the page given (p. 38) or on any other page in the book which mentions liberal Republicans (pages 37, 38, 79, 153, and 188).
It's true enough that Rockefeller Republicans held moderate-to-liberal views on some issues, and this is already well-sourced, and it's fine to make that statement. But the terms are not synonymous, and the converse is *not* true; i.e., it's not a fact that all moderate-to-liberal Republicans are Rockefeller Republicans. The term is a designation belonging to the past, and there are no Rockefeller Republicans now. Occasionally, the term is dredged up in connection with some modern politician, and there is one such still in the article (Chris Sununu) because a National Review opinion piece implied that he and others like him represented a "return to Rockefeller Republicanism" (or rather, posed a rhetorical question about whether they did or didn't), but that's a tenuous connection, and should probably be dropped per WP:UNDUE; a scan of the top 25 articles about Chris Sununu would very likely not find a majority of them (or any of them, I'd wager) referring to Sununu as a "Rockefeller Republican", so probably he should be removed as well. Mathglot ( talk) 00:33, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
There is a major discrepancy. Rockefeller Republicans are moderate to liberal in one section and center to center-right in another section. It should either be moderate to conservative and center to center-right or moderate to liberal and center to center-left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactCheckExpert ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I deleted the Whiggish claims inserted by Luke Phillips in a blog. "Google Scholar" shows that he has not a professional or expert. WP:NEWSBLOG states: "Some newspapers, magazines, and other news organizations host online columns they call blogs. These may be acceptable sources if the writers are professionals, but use them with caution because blogs may not be subject to the news organization's normal fact-checking process." the writer is a graduate student who has not published on the issue and does not footnote the statement. indeed he wrote merely one sentence on the issue (he wrote: " As a result, starting in the 1960s, the last of the Whiggish Republicans—then known as the Rockefeller Republicans, and including in their number George Romney and Jacob Javits—fought a losing battle against the newly ascendant “conservative” populist wing of the Party, while conservative Democrats in the Whig tradition, like Scoop Jackson, were edged out of their own party by a succession of FDR New Deal Democrats, McGovernite liberals, and then multicultural leftists.")-- no sources are provided. As for the author the blog states: "Luke Philips is a research associate at the Center for Opportunity Urbanism and a student at the University of Southern California. " Google Scholar shows that apart from his one blog he has not published anything about Whigs or Republicans. So we have an inexperienced student with no evident expertise and no reliable credentials. Rjensen ( talk) 05:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC).
Seeing some debates about who is a "Rockefeller Republican," it is important to note that Wikipedia, at this time, has any search for "moderate Republican" or wiki link to "moderate Republican" redirect to Rockefeller Republican. Currently, most English dictionaries also use Rockefeller Republican synonymously with moderate and liberal Republicans. Perhaps, a new Wikipedia article is needed if there is substantial support for distinguishing between "Rockefeller Republican" and "moderate Republican." SeminarianJohn ( talk) 05:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Currently, most English dictionaries also use Rockefeller Republican synonymously with moderate and liberal Republicans
I think the article should be changed so that "moderate Republican" no longer redirects here then.
While I think a conversation should be had to formally distinguish "moderate Republican" from "Rockefeller Republican," as it seems other editors agree, so that the former does not redirect to the latter, I do think that U.S. Senator Susan Collins (R-Maine) should be added to current office-holders. According to reports from the Associated Press, she is listed with Northeastern officials "dubbed the Rockefeller Republicans after the former New York Governor..." [1] [2] A Politico article refers to Sen. Collins, along with some former colleagues, as "in more recent times this [Rockefeller Republican] tradition...has been on the wane. The Senate has only three moderate Northeastern Republicans - Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine..." [3] A CNN article refers to her this way in describing what happened Rockefeller Republicans, "First and foremost, who killed the Rockefeller Republicans?...Liberal to moderate Northeastern Republicans once were as much a part of the political landscape as today's liberals from Massachusetts. Now, they live mostly in history books. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine may be the last ones standing in today's Senate." [4] After the Associated Press, Politico, and CNN, a fourth source, The Hill, published an opinion piece; while not on the same level as the other three, given that it states it is an opinion piece, the reference to Rockefeller Republicans supports that the information from the other three RS is used and broadly accepted. [5] Another opinion piece published in the Baltimore Sun also supports that the information in the previous three RS is widely accepted. [6] While not as reliable, lesser-known publications have also published articles referring to Susan Collins as among "Rockefeller Republicans" consistent with the aforementioned three RS. The MSU Reporter, the New Republic, and the Sarasota-Herald Tribune refer to Sen. Collins as a "Rockefeller Republican." [7] [8] [9] Huffpost has an article interviewing former Senator and Governor Lincoln Chafee wherein he groups Susan Collins with Rockefeller Republicans. [10] Other politicians, including the four Governors listed in current office-holders, have only one reliable source referring to them in the category of Rockefeller Republican. There are multiple referring this way to Sen. Collins. SeminarianJohn ( talk) 19:17, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
References
The § History section is the longest one in the article, so I've added a number of subsections to break it up a bit and make it easier to follow. This may require some touch-ups after, moving text around to better fit the thematic breakdown, or possibly changing section titles if a better organization can be found.
Section § Modern usage is almost as large, and the addition of some subsection headers should be considered there as well. Mathglot ( talk) 05:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Claims are made in the article that Charlie Baker, Phil Scott, and Chris Sununu are Rockefeller Republicans, but this is not supported by the majority of reliable sources, or even the minority. All three are sourced to a 2018 National Review opinion piece by Karl J. Salzmann. Salzmann was an editorial intern at NR in 2018, and an asst. editor Washington Free Beacon (per LinkedIn). The Beacon has been discussed several times at WP:RSN where it has been described as "dodgy", and lacks "a reputation for journalistic credibility" ( here), "made various false claims" and "generally not reliable" ( here), and had mixed reviews, eg, "false claims", "generally reliable", "no fact-checking or verification" ( here). The current consensus appears to be that the Beacon is acceptable for quotations attributed to sources, but factual claims should be verified. Even in this one, weak, opinion piece source, there is no specific assertion that Baker or the others are Rockefeller Republicans; what the article says, is this:
At the state level, however, a kind of Rockefeller Republicanism seems to be rising once again in recent years.
and then says that Baker, Scott, and Sununu "are a reminder of" moderate conservatism of the Northeast.
The article never states it outright, the piece is an opinion piece not a news article, it doesn't quote anybody (and therefore are the author's words), and the author has light credentials ("intern") and has worked at somewhat dodgy publications. This source is far too weak on its own to substantiate an assertion in Wikipedia's voice that these three politicans are, in fact, Rockefeller Republicans. We need more than this. Can more reliable sources be found?
Note that there is one result from the Scholar search on Baker that yields a 2015 article from The Atlantic, entitled " The bluest Republican: why staunchly Democratic Massachusetts loves its new GOP governor", which has the word Rockefeller in proximity to "Charlie Baker"; however, the article makes no claim but more of a conjecture as a set-up for the predicate of the sentence, which points out that Baker rejects it: "If Baker's win suggests a return to Rockefeller-style liberal Republicanism in the Northeast, he does not appear eager to claim the mantle." (Atlantic Monthly, vol. 315, issue 2, March 2015).
Currently, sourcing of these three politicans in this article is based entirely on a single, weak, opinion piece; this does not exceed the "tiny minority" provision of WP:DUE WEIGHT policy, which therefore requires excluding them from the article. I couldn't find other sources after trying hard, and the WP:BURDEN in any case is on those editors who wish to retain this content in the article.
Accordingly, I've tagged these three politicians as needing better sourcing, but if nothing is forthcoming within a reasonable interval, then they should be removed, per WP:DUEWEIGHT. Mathglot ( talk) 21:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Much of this page seems to be describing the Rockefeller Republicans as an ideological tradition, as opposed to a wing of the Republican Party. Yet, due to how far to the right the GOP has drifted over the past forty years, it now seems like a few figures who might once have been Rockefeller Republicans are now very moderate Democrats. Joe Lieberman, Kyrsten Sinema, and Evan Bayh come to mind. Yet, for them to be added to this list would seem very out of place. 151.41.161.200 ( talk) 12:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
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These recent edits, restore a political figure and a few organizations as belonging to this category. The edit summary of one of these edits cites Oxford Oxford English Dictionary which includes "a moderate or liberal Republican" as a definition.
I think this article's subject is a particular historical group or trend still alluded to in the lede:
members of the Republican Party (GOP) in the 1930s–1970s who held moderate to liberal views on domestic issues, similar to those of Nelson Rockefeller
... which I suppose might eventually be wiped to complete the transition, presumably after Thomas E. Dewey and Abraham Lincoln are added.
This drift toward making the article catch-all for Republicans denounced as "liberal" by certain political activists still seems like a BLP issue to me. / edg ☺ ☭ 04:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Also, Liberal Republican (as capitalized in the current article intro) should not be capitalized. The US currently has no organized "Liberal Republican" party or movement separate from the existing GOP. The term Republican liberal would be preferable because it does not have this implication, and also helps distinguish from the Liberal Republican Party (United States), which was an actual US political party. / edg ☺ ☭ 04:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
This very subject heading seems to violate Wikipedia's standards. If an entry read, "Individual X is considered moderate," it would likely be tagged quickly for "weasel words" and removed if no one clarified who considered that individual moderate and produced a citation.
As it stands, this is a vague list of three Senators who voted against a signature Trump agenda item once, and two (Capito and Young) who have shown little "moderation," though I suspect that they're listed because they belong the Republican Main Street Partnership.
I suggest that for anyone listed here, there be some explanation provided in the entry for inclusion. If this can't be done, I suggest that the individual (and if necessary, this section) be removed. Mgllama ( talk) 17:38, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Anthony Kennedy and John Paul Stevens can not be on the same list as having the same ideology because they never did. Stevens joined the Court as the most conservative member and pretty much did not change any of his views; his views simply became the most "liberal" as the Court lurched sharply conservative. Stevens was on the left of the Court by 2000; Kennedy was firmly in the middle of the Court and substantially to the right of Stevens. If Stevens and Kennedy are BOTH considered "Rockefeller Republicans," then you have to add Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer to the list as well, as they are ideologically between Kennedy and Stevens. The solution is to remove Kennedy, because he is not a Rockefeller Republican; he's a Reagan Republican. 98.10.165.90 ( talk) 23:33, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Liberal Conservatism - "Liberal conservatism incorporates the classical liberal view of minimal government intervention in the economy, according to which individuals should be free to participate in the market and generate wealth without government interference"
Rockerfeller Republicans are more economically interventionist - "They espoused government and private investments in environmentalism, healthcare, and higher education as necessities for a better society and economic growth in the tradition of Rockefeller. They were strong supporters of state colleges and universities, low tuition and large research budgets. They favored infrastructure improvements such as highway projects." ..... "they favored balanced budgets and were not averse to raising taxes in order to achieve them. Connecticut Senator Prescott Bush once called for Congress to "raise the required revenues by approving whatever levels of taxation may be necessary". A critical element was their support for labor unions and especially the building trades appreciated the heavy spending on infrastructure. In turn, the unions gave these politicians enough support to overcome the anti-union rural element in the Republican Party. As the unions weakened after the 1970s, so too did the need for Republicans to cooperate with them. This transformation played into the hands of the more conservative Republicans, who did not want to collaborate with labor unions in the first place and now no longer needed to do so to carry statewide elections."
They were more liberal in the American Sense. Liberal in Liberal Conservatism is a different concept from the American one. 115.70.195.167 ( talk) 23:34, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Supreme Court justices were included. I do not question the editor's intent at all, but I am curious if this is the place to list Supreme Court justices given that their rulings are not directly tied to a particular party or ideology? Yes, we know that they have ideologies and that their rulings tend to reflect a certain perspective of judicial philosophy, but I am not sure that those judicial philosophies could be accurately described as "Rockefeller Republican." For example, Anthony Kennedy is regarded by most experts and professional court-watchers as a "moderate" or "moderate conservative" justice, but I do not know if that is in the same political faction context in which this page finds itself. I'm not going to change it, but I wanted to raise the question. SeminarianJohn ( talk) 18:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
They may speak out and take action against Trump but they are conservative in every other fashion stop adding them on here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiSantis19 ( talk • contribs) 19:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
McCain may have been at times a thorn in the side of the two most recent Republican presidents - George W. Bush and Donald Trump - but he was never a Rockefeller Republican. Prior to the Bush II administration, McCain was a vanilla down-the-line conservative, except possibly on the issue of Campaign Finance Reform (see Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, AKA "McCain-Feingold"). He supported the impeachment and removal of President Bill Clinton (see https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/). He was consistent pro-life (see https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18632802). His lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union ("ACU"_ was 81 (see https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-john-mccain-a-maverick/). That's much higher than your typical Rockefeller Republican - Chris Shays for example had an ACU rating in the 40s (see http://acuratings.conservative.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/05/2007guide.pdf), and John Chafee's lifetime rating was in the 20s (see https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/53342/john-chafee?categoryId=&type=F,R,E,E,E&p=2).
Same goes for Adam Kinzinger. He was first elected in 2010 with backing from Sarah Palin (see https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/palin-backs-three-house-challengers-035161) and Americans for Prosperity (a "Tea Party" group backed by the Kochs) (see https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-xpm-2011-feb-06-la-na-koch-brothers-20110206-story.html). Perceptions that he's a "moderate" or even a Rockefeller Republican seems to stem from his opposition to Trump, not because of any kinship with the Rockefeller Republicans in terms of either ideology or style. Tettyan ( talk) 01:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
John E. Sununu is likewise not a Rockefeller Republican. While he broke with his party on a few key issues, he also retained the support of the conservative Club for Growth throughout his career in the House and in the Senate. Tettyan ( talk) 01:10, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I understand McCain and Kinzinger (definently kinzinger) but John sununu goes a little to far for me. He was a rockefeller republican
I would suggest for John McCain adding him but just like for Rudy Giuliani add a considered Rockefeller Republican until such and such year because McCain believed in some liberal ideas like Free trade and he lambasted some conservatives like talk radio hosts and instead of supporting a ban on abortion he voted against it, and at the end of his life (2013 - death) h actually supported gay marriage and supported transgender rights. He also supported some liberal economic policies. McCain also supported DACA and in his book The Restless Wave, he said that we shouldn't build a wall on the southern border. He also supported the Americans With disabilities act which barely any Republican voted for. As a compromise I think we should add him to the list of former Rockefeller Republican Senators but add considered one until whenever he was considered a regular conservative to please the ones who think he wasn't a Rockefeller Republican. But in my opinion based on his later life and life before 2006 he was a moderate Rockefeller Republican. -- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 15:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
The Adam Kinzinger yes is a sort of opinion but John McCain isn't an opinion he did everything I have said he did, and I thought of a solution to please the ones who think he was and the ones who weren't again, just like Rudy, we could put a (considered one until such year) because during most of his time in congress and only was a little more center-right in the last few congressional years. If you read my no. 1 source, which I acknowledge I cannot present it to anyone because I d not know how to (new here so I'm still learning the rules), which is a primary source. He did it because that is what he said on the campaign trail, he tried to get the vote to stay there and serve the people of Arizona (though I cannot remember exactly what he stated). He did support free trade and even liberal social issues at the end of his life. I am not gong to reveal my primary source mostly because I really don't know how to. Though I cannot cite a specific source that said he was a Rockefeller Republican, then again most sources don't say "Rockefeller republican", they say moderate republican, there are plenty of sources that say he was. Also he fought the Bush tax cuts, stated that the Trump tax reform bill was "far from perfect", and was (again) a moderate during most congresses mostly until 2007 where he had to cozy up to the establishment of the GOP to win the nomination, even though he knew he wasn't going to be that.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:34, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Though I cannot cite a specific source that said he was a Rockefeller Republican...
We should add them, but only the politically active ones like Frank Sinatra who I would consider a Kennedy Republican because he had this awkward relationship with him (you know what I mean with the song High Hopes) but he switched to the Republican side after 1972.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 16:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh, no I was just pitching an idea, nothing else. I'm perfectly fine that it can't be, it was just asking if we could add that.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:17, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
There is a massive amount of original research in the #Current officeholders section that needs to be addressed. I started going through the names in the section, checking the U.S. Senators first. There are five sources for the three Senators in the list. I checked each source for mention of 'Rockefeller Republicans', and tagged any that didn't support it. As it turned out, none of the sources support the inclusion of those three Senators. I spot-checked a few of the Governors, U.S. reps, and Mayors, and didn't find 'Rockefeller' mentioned in any of the handful I checked. Rather than check and tag each of them individually, I added an {{ Original research}} banner to the section, linking to this discussion.
I suspect that none of the fifteen current officeholders listed in this section belong here, as none of them are Rockefeller Republicans. The WP:ONUS of inclusion here is on the editors who added them. Per our WP:Verifiability policy:
All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed.
These officeholders are all living people, and thus any assertion about them is also subject to WP:BLP policy, stressing WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV. Accordingly, I am issuing this formal challenge: each name in the section must have a proper inline citation attached to it that supports their inclusion, or it will be removed. Bear in mind that this topic is subject to ArbCom Discretionary sanctions, and any source added must be of impeccable reliability, and must explicitly support inclusion of the officeholder. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 22:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
So, I found 1 source for susan collins of maine that (I'm pretty sure) states that she is a Rockefeller Republican, I didn't have tie to read the entire thing so could somebody do it and check my work? https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/526294-the-magnificent-moderation-of-susan-collins — Preceding unsigned comment added by General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk • contribs) 17:50, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict) I've gone through this section, subsection by subsection, removing unsourced or insufficiently sourced items. As there was nothing left, I've removed the section header as well. If anyone would like to work on sourcing this section so it may be readded, ping me and I'll restore it here to the Talk page, so you can work on it here. Lmk, Mathglot ( talk) 17:55, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Okay, becaue I was sort of rushing through from getting notified from emails. Thanks for reviewing the source-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:08, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we keep the Current office holders blank for now because I am looking but I can't find a source that indicates them being a rockefeller republican that isn't an opinion piece.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:11, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Just to be clear what is considered original research so I know if my sources are original research. General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 18:23, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
|reason=
parameter to explain why). As far as your questions about original research, since that's a more general question not specifically related to Rockefeller Republicans, please see your Talk page.
Mathglot (
talk)
21:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)ya that is exactly what I meant by keeping it blank-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 22:33, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
How about instead of trying to deleting and adding (I a partially responsible for that action), we make compromises for the disputed Rockefeller Republicans and settle those issues, because there are people (including me) who want different people on the list. One reason is because we get different sources, my sources tell me that some of these people are moderate Republicans. We need to compromise on those and try to make a compromise, so then we can all agree which ones are Rockefeller Republicans ad which ones aren't, because right now, we don't. You can argue Justice Kennedy wasn't or McCain wasn't (or vice versa) but we can't just keep arguing and deleting (partial blame is on me), so I think we should compromise on people like J. McCain, or M. Romney, or A. Kinzinger, or E. Stefanik, or A. Kennedy, the list goes on and on so here we should compromise instead of delete and argue.-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 11:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
No I mean with sources Mathglot because my sources which again I cannot name because I do not know if you could say he was. not by opinion. I do mean with reliable sources. I should have stated this more clearly but when I said compromise, I meant until everyone who edits the article can agree on which source to use and agreed on if these people were or weren't. Though I do have to say after using newer sources I can tell you Sununu (john E), McCain, and Kinzinger weren't Rockefeller Republicans, they were moderate yes but not Rockefeller Republican based on Rockefeller, ON THE ISSUES not the website. Though I think we should see which sources are reliable because somebody on wikipedia could then just say Donald Trump or Marjorie Taylor Greene are rockefeller republicans, so which sources are reliable sources?-- General Dwight David Eisenhower ( talk) 17:44, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
I've tagged section Former officeholders as containing original research. I notice that GDDE has added some sources; two out of three are these are valid; good job. The other one (Jeffords) fails verification. Haven't checked the rest yet, but they need citations as well. Good job so far, keep on going. Mathglot ( talk) 23:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
The "Current Officeholders" section has recently been removed. In the last few months, mainly due to Trump's second impeachment, there have been a lot of people adding and removing people for various reasons. While voting to convict Trump shouldn't automatically warrant an inclusion on this list, there are sources that describe Bill Cassidy and Mitt Romney as moderate/Rockefeller Republicans. In fact, Newt Gingrich explicitly called Romney a Rockefeller Republican in the 2012 Republican primaries. I think that this page should be the Republican equivalent of New Democrats, as both pages describe moderates in both parties. If someone has a reliable source describing them as a moderate/Rockefeller Republican, they should not be removed from this list. There are also sources describing Lindsey Graham and Rob Portman as moderates. Any Republican that was part of the Gang of 14 can also go on this list due to sources describing them as moderates. I would like to note that Joe Biden is included on the New Democrats page because he has a reliable source, despite the fact that a some people would not consider him a moderate nowadays due to his disagreements with fellow Democrats like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. GamerKiller2347 ( talk) 19:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't Charlie Crist be included among Rockefeller Republicans? At least while he was a Republican? Or should he be excluded because he did move to Independents and, then, to Democratic party? Goliath74 ( talk) 18:13, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Bush Sr was pretty middle-of-the-road as president, especially compared to his son. Steelydanfan03 ( talk) 19:49, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the recent good faith addition of 51 names in rev. 1055083642 of 19:36, 13 November 2021, each one with its own, separate citation added. Unfortunately, except in one case, none of the sources supported the officeholder as a Rockefeller Republican, and thus per WP:Verifiability has been removed. (The exception was the addition of Arlen Specter, which was properly sourced to WaPo/Rucker-2012, and has been retained.) Details of the removal:
List of names removed for lack of sourcing
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The following names were added in rev. 1055083642, but were not supported by the source given:
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Any name not supported by a reliable reference which identifies them as a Rockefeller Republican is subject to removal by Wikipedia policies, primarily WP:V and WP:SYNTH. Thanks, Mathglot ( talk) 10:21, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
I dropped misstatements and unsupported claims from the WP:LEADSENTENCE, both with respect to style (using "Liberal Republicans" capitalized, as if it were a political party, which it isn't (not in the United States, at least), rather than just liberal Republicans, a simple description that might be used about some politicians in news reporting. The source Stebenne (2006) was used to assert the claim that Rockefeller Republicans were "called" Liberal Republicans as if that was some kind of nickname or alternative party name—which it isn't—unlike the way G.O.P. actually is another name for the Republican party, . Checking that source, there is no support for the assertion previously in the lead sentence on the page given (p. 38) or on any other page in the book which mentions liberal Republicans (pages 37, 38, 79, 153, and 188).
It's true enough that Rockefeller Republicans held moderate-to-liberal views on some issues, and this is already well-sourced, and it's fine to make that statement. But the terms are not synonymous, and the converse is *not* true; i.e., it's not a fact that all moderate-to-liberal Republicans are Rockefeller Republicans. The term is a designation belonging to the past, and there are no Rockefeller Republicans now. Occasionally, the term is dredged up in connection with some modern politician, and there is one such still in the article (Chris Sununu) because a National Review opinion piece implied that he and others like him represented a "return to Rockefeller Republicanism" (or rather, posed a rhetorical question about whether they did or didn't), but that's a tenuous connection, and should probably be dropped per WP:UNDUE; a scan of the top 25 articles about Chris Sununu would very likely not find a majority of them (or any of them, I'd wager) referring to Sununu as a "Rockefeller Republican", so probably he should be removed as well. Mathglot ( talk) 00:33, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
There is a major discrepancy. Rockefeller Republicans are moderate to liberal in one section and center to center-right in another section. It should either be moderate to conservative and center to center-right or moderate to liberal and center to center-left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactCheckExpert ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I deleted the Whiggish claims inserted by Luke Phillips in a blog. "Google Scholar" shows that he has not a professional or expert. WP:NEWSBLOG states: "Some newspapers, magazines, and other news organizations host online columns they call blogs. These may be acceptable sources if the writers are professionals, but use them with caution because blogs may not be subject to the news organization's normal fact-checking process." the writer is a graduate student who has not published on the issue and does not footnote the statement. indeed he wrote merely one sentence on the issue (he wrote: " As a result, starting in the 1960s, the last of the Whiggish Republicans—then known as the Rockefeller Republicans, and including in their number George Romney and Jacob Javits—fought a losing battle against the newly ascendant “conservative” populist wing of the Party, while conservative Democrats in the Whig tradition, like Scoop Jackson, were edged out of their own party by a succession of FDR New Deal Democrats, McGovernite liberals, and then multicultural leftists.")-- no sources are provided. As for the author the blog states: "Luke Philips is a research associate at the Center for Opportunity Urbanism and a student at the University of Southern California. " Google Scholar shows that apart from his one blog he has not published anything about Whigs or Republicans. So we have an inexperienced student with no evident expertise and no reliable credentials. Rjensen ( talk) 05:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC).
Seeing some debates about who is a "Rockefeller Republican," it is important to note that Wikipedia, at this time, has any search for "moderate Republican" or wiki link to "moderate Republican" redirect to Rockefeller Republican. Currently, most English dictionaries also use Rockefeller Republican synonymously with moderate and liberal Republicans. Perhaps, a new Wikipedia article is needed if there is substantial support for distinguishing between "Rockefeller Republican" and "moderate Republican." SeminarianJohn ( talk) 05:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Currently, most English dictionaries also use Rockefeller Republican synonymously with moderate and liberal Republicans
I think the article should be changed so that "moderate Republican" no longer redirects here then.
While I think a conversation should be had to formally distinguish "moderate Republican" from "Rockefeller Republican," as it seems other editors agree, so that the former does not redirect to the latter, I do think that U.S. Senator Susan Collins (R-Maine) should be added to current office-holders. According to reports from the Associated Press, she is listed with Northeastern officials "dubbed the Rockefeller Republicans after the former New York Governor..." [1] [2] A Politico article refers to Sen. Collins, along with some former colleagues, as "in more recent times this [Rockefeller Republican] tradition...has been on the wane. The Senate has only three moderate Northeastern Republicans - Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine..." [3] A CNN article refers to her this way in describing what happened Rockefeller Republicans, "First and foremost, who killed the Rockefeller Republicans?...Liberal to moderate Northeastern Republicans once were as much a part of the political landscape as today's liberals from Massachusetts. Now, they live mostly in history books. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine may be the last ones standing in today's Senate." [4] After the Associated Press, Politico, and CNN, a fourth source, The Hill, published an opinion piece; while not on the same level as the other three, given that it states it is an opinion piece, the reference to Rockefeller Republicans supports that the information from the other three RS is used and broadly accepted. [5] Another opinion piece published in the Baltimore Sun also supports that the information in the previous three RS is widely accepted. [6] While not as reliable, lesser-known publications have also published articles referring to Susan Collins as among "Rockefeller Republicans" consistent with the aforementioned three RS. The MSU Reporter, the New Republic, and the Sarasota-Herald Tribune refer to Sen. Collins as a "Rockefeller Republican." [7] [8] [9] Huffpost has an article interviewing former Senator and Governor Lincoln Chafee wherein he groups Susan Collins with Rockefeller Republicans. [10] Other politicians, including the four Governors listed in current office-holders, have only one reliable source referring to them in the category of Rockefeller Republican. There are multiple referring this way to Sen. Collins. SeminarianJohn ( talk) 19:17, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
References
The § History section is the longest one in the article, so I've added a number of subsections to break it up a bit and make it easier to follow. This may require some touch-ups after, moving text around to better fit the thematic breakdown, or possibly changing section titles if a better organization can be found.
Section § Modern usage is almost as large, and the addition of some subsection headers should be considered there as well. Mathglot ( talk) 05:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
Claims are made in the article that Charlie Baker, Phil Scott, and Chris Sununu are Rockefeller Republicans, but this is not supported by the majority of reliable sources, or even the minority. All three are sourced to a 2018 National Review opinion piece by Karl J. Salzmann. Salzmann was an editorial intern at NR in 2018, and an asst. editor Washington Free Beacon (per LinkedIn). The Beacon has been discussed several times at WP:RSN where it has been described as "dodgy", and lacks "a reputation for journalistic credibility" ( here), "made various false claims" and "generally not reliable" ( here), and had mixed reviews, eg, "false claims", "generally reliable", "no fact-checking or verification" ( here). The current consensus appears to be that the Beacon is acceptable for quotations attributed to sources, but factual claims should be verified. Even in this one, weak, opinion piece source, there is no specific assertion that Baker or the others are Rockefeller Republicans; what the article says, is this:
At the state level, however, a kind of Rockefeller Republicanism seems to be rising once again in recent years.
and then says that Baker, Scott, and Sununu "are a reminder of" moderate conservatism of the Northeast.
The article never states it outright, the piece is an opinion piece not a news article, it doesn't quote anybody (and therefore are the author's words), and the author has light credentials ("intern") and has worked at somewhat dodgy publications. This source is far too weak on its own to substantiate an assertion in Wikipedia's voice that these three politicans are, in fact, Rockefeller Republicans. We need more than this. Can more reliable sources be found?
Note that there is one result from the Scholar search on Baker that yields a 2015 article from The Atlantic, entitled " The bluest Republican: why staunchly Democratic Massachusetts loves its new GOP governor", which has the word Rockefeller in proximity to "Charlie Baker"; however, the article makes no claim but more of a conjecture as a set-up for the predicate of the sentence, which points out that Baker rejects it: "If Baker's win suggests a return to Rockefeller-style liberal Republicanism in the Northeast, he does not appear eager to claim the mantle." (Atlantic Monthly, vol. 315, issue 2, March 2015).
Currently, sourcing of these three politicans in this article is based entirely on a single, weak, opinion piece; this does not exceed the "tiny minority" provision of WP:DUE WEIGHT policy, which therefore requires excluding them from the article. I couldn't find other sources after trying hard, and the WP:BURDEN in any case is on those editors who wish to retain this content in the article.
Accordingly, I've tagged these three politicians as needing better sourcing, but if nothing is forthcoming within a reasonable interval, then they should be removed, per WP:DUEWEIGHT. Mathglot ( talk) 21:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
Much of this page seems to be describing the Rockefeller Republicans as an ideological tradition, as opposed to a wing of the Republican Party. Yet, due to how far to the right the GOP has drifted over the past forty years, it now seems like a few figures who might once have been Rockefeller Republicans are now very moderate Democrats. Joe Lieberman, Kyrsten Sinema, and Evan Bayh come to mind. Yet, for them to be added to this list would seem very out of place. 151.41.161.200 ( talk) 12:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
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