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Dr Y Vincent Kumaradoss' publication in India of the first full biography in English of this influential missionary has been the impetus behind the recent expansion since 22 September 2007 of the original text on this page (plus notes and references).
This has caused just one correction to the previous text - at the beginning of the second paragraph. As both Kumaradoss and Trautmann point out, Caldwell was not "the first European to propose that the South Indian languages …formed a separate language family", but he was responsible for the "consolidation of the proof".
Footnoter 19:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
"most comprehensive single work".. "amazing levels of conversion".. the article carries heavy pro-Caldwell POV and should be balanced - Ravichandar 02:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Was involved in the Druce-Portland affair (see William John Cavendish Bentinck-Scott, 5th Duke of Portland (1800-1879)) Jackiespeel ( talk) 15:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting the link, whoever did it - "library computer logging off"-itis. Jackiespeel ( talk) 15:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
The article is strongly and specifically referenced and almost all the statements are substantiated in the Notes and References. The writers/editors also have had the advantage of a detailed biographical study of the subject written by an Indian, Dr Vincent Kumaradoss, the history professor at the Madras Christan College, University of Chennai, and published by ISPCK in Delhi last year. See Footnoter’s comment above.
Ravichandar quotes two phrases to indicate ‘bias’. The first, “most comprehensive single work”, is a direct quotation from an assessment made by Dr Robert Frykenberg, Professor Emeritus of History & South Asian Studies at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, one of the leading authorities on Caldwell’s written works, and is referenced accordingly in Notes. The phrase is also preceded by the word “perhaps” and the basis of his assessment – “archaeological, epigraphic and literary sources”.
The other example, suggesting ‘bias’, quoted by Ravichandar is the phrase “amazing levels of conversion”, but the word “amazing” does not occur at all in the piece. The actual phrase indicated reads “…achieved levels of Christian conversion among the lower castes almost unheard of in India”. This is not a general unverifiable statement, but a specific comparison relating to caste and Christianity in India as a whole, which is established in Kumaradoss’ book and elsewhere in the references. The sentence which follows it and which is referenced in the Notes, begins to explain how this was achieved, i.e. by adopting “some of the methods of the Lutheran missionaries …”. Malpus ( talk) 13:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
There is already a section in this talk page about NPOV. In order to make this article encyclopedic we need to change the language in the text to mention where necessary that the views expressed are that of such and such personality like Kumaradoss. We should also make the article more balanced by including some of the dissenting views on Robert Caldwell's contribution and theories which have been published by scholars. My recent edit was reverted by Dravidianhero who seems not to agree with such balancing and accused my edits of being original research, without explanation on which edits were in his view "original research" which I had provided references. Revert of edits about Dr. R. Nagaswamy and his book "Mirror of Tamil and Sanskrit" were the most shocking and indicate a clear bias against any contrarian view. I believe political motivations should not be used to create biographical articles and all dimensions of the life and work of the person concerned should be addressed. I hope people will participate in reviewing other such edits to this article which were reverted by some opinionated gatekeepers. Expecting explanation for each revert by user Dravidianhero( talk). Indoscope ( talk) 18:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
The following stood out as I was reading from this article:
"The caste system was an exploitative, violent and dehumanizing ideology that served the interests of high-caste Hindus. In keeping with his Christian beliefs and very much to his credit, Campbell was absolutely opposed to the caste system and sincerely committed to the welfare of the Shanar people whom he believed could be liberated from casteist oppression through evangelism."
This is quite blatantly an example of bias. It reads like part of an opinion piece rather than an impartial encyclopedia article.
Graaaaaagh ( talk) 06:20, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
The publication of the following book seems to have been done in Madras first, in 1849. [1]"The Tinnevelly Shanars : a sketch of their religion and their moral condition and characteristics : with special reference to the facilities and hindrances to the progress of Christianity amongst them"-- Mageshsai ( talk) 09:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
References
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Dr Y Vincent Kumaradoss' publication in India of the first full biography in English of this influential missionary has been the impetus behind the recent expansion since 22 September 2007 of the original text on this page (plus notes and references).
This has caused just one correction to the previous text - at the beginning of the second paragraph. As both Kumaradoss and Trautmann point out, Caldwell was not "the first European to propose that the South Indian languages …formed a separate language family", but he was responsible for the "consolidation of the proof".
Footnoter 19:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
"most comprehensive single work".. "amazing levels of conversion".. the article carries heavy pro-Caldwell POV and should be balanced - Ravichandar 02:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Was involved in the Druce-Portland affair (see William John Cavendish Bentinck-Scott, 5th Duke of Portland (1800-1879)) Jackiespeel ( talk) 15:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for correcting the link, whoever did it - "library computer logging off"-itis. Jackiespeel ( talk) 15:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
The article is strongly and specifically referenced and almost all the statements are substantiated in the Notes and References. The writers/editors also have had the advantage of a detailed biographical study of the subject written by an Indian, Dr Vincent Kumaradoss, the history professor at the Madras Christan College, University of Chennai, and published by ISPCK in Delhi last year. See Footnoter’s comment above.
Ravichandar quotes two phrases to indicate ‘bias’. The first, “most comprehensive single work”, is a direct quotation from an assessment made by Dr Robert Frykenberg, Professor Emeritus of History & South Asian Studies at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, one of the leading authorities on Caldwell’s written works, and is referenced accordingly in Notes. The phrase is also preceded by the word “perhaps” and the basis of his assessment – “archaeological, epigraphic and literary sources”.
The other example, suggesting ‘bias’, quoted by Ravichandar is the phrase “amazing levels of conversion”, but the word “amazing” does not occur at all in the piece. The actual phrase indicated reads “…achieved levels of Christian conversion among the lower castes almost unheard of in India”. This is not a general unverifiable statement, but a specific comparison relating to caste and Christianity in India as a whole, which is established in Kumaradoss’ book and elsewhere in the references. The sentence which follows it and which is referenced in the Notes, begins to explain how this was achieved, i.e. by adopting “some of the methods of the Lutheran missionaries …”. Malpus ( talk) 13:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
There is already a section in this talk page about NPOV. In order to make this article encyclopedic we need to change the language in the text to mention where necessary that the views expressed are that of such and such personality like Kumaradoss. We should also make the article more balanced by including some of the dissenting views on Robert Caldwell's contribution and theories which have been published by scholars. My recent edit was reverted by Dravidianhero who seems not to agree with such balancing and accused my edits of being original research, without explanation on which edits were in his view "original research" which I had provided references. Revert of edits about Dr. R. Nagaswamy and his book "Mirror of Tamil and Sanskrit" were the most shocking and indicate a clear bias against any contrarian view. I believe political motivations should not be used to create biographical articles and all dimensions of the life and work of the person concerned should be addressed. I hope people will participate in reviewing other such edits to this article which were reverted by some opinionated gatekeepers. Expecting explanation for each revert by user Dravidianhero( talk). Indoscope ( talk) 18:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
The following stood out as I was reading from this article:
"The caste system was an exploitative, violent and dehumanizing ideology that served the interests of high-caste Hindus. In keeping with his Christian beliefs and very much to his credit, Campbell was absolutely opposed to the caste system and sincerely committed to the welfare of the Shanar people whom he believed could be liberated from casteist oppression through evangelism."
This is quite blatantly an example of bias. It reads like part of an opinion piece rather than an impartial encyclopedia article.
Graaaaaagh ( talk) 06:20, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
The publication of the following book seems to have been done in Madras first, in 1849. [1]"The Tinnevelly Shanars : a sketch of their religion and their moral condition and characteristics : with special reference to the facilities and hindrances to the progress of Christianity amongst them"-- Mageshsai ( talk) 09:54, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
References