This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
The contents of the Ruesi page were
merged into
Rishi on 6 July 2016. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see
its talk page.
The following addition has been reverted for the fourth time in row (3 times by me, 1 time by
Vandamonde:
"Rishis are a seeker of enlightenment, who try to connect with the supreme being through meditation. Rishis are elevated humans who may sometimes ultimately connect with the supreme being through enlightenment. They may also receive direct guidance from God. Post-Vedic tradition regards the Rishis as "sages" or saints, constituting a peculiar class of human beings who have received enlightenment direct from God, in some cases rishis may also refer to Abrahamic prophets as mentioned in the earliest Vedas"
There are several problems with this "info":
The lead is supposed to summarize the article; this "info" is not in the article.
It's not about the historical rishis, but about a contemporary understanding or interpretation of "rishis". As such, it needs references.
"Rishis are a seeker of enlightenment" - rishis were poets who invoked the gods. The term "enlightenment" is a modern, western term, not a Vedic term;
"who try to connect with the supreme being through meditation" - meditation was most likely not part of the Vedic rituals;
"who may sometimes ultimately connect" - this is unintelligent; what does this sentence mean?
"connect with the supreme being through enlightenment" - this is a specific understanding of what "enlightenment means;
"They may also receive direct guidance from God" - like the Jewish profets?
"in some cases rishis may also refer to Abrahamic prophets as mentioned in the earliest Vedas" - I'm looking forward to the sources which establish this kind of connection between the Abrahamic profets and the Vedas.
@
245CMR: Such arguements should be avoided, see this and that. Also, if we take tyhis arguement into consideration, but this is not proper reason. Please don't start edit war, for the reasons which seems totally improper and the edits seems to be POV pushing. Please you were the one who changed the sequence, you should please provide the reason. It was already also Neutrality. Also some comments like What if Gautama Buddha........ seems too inappropriate. Is it like, here you are not for religion, no one is of speific religion, as of me. Are you here for religion. Do you really do it for proving your religious ideology superior. Edit Wikipedia neutrally,pleease. You can surely have interest in specific topic, but such being the representative of religious ideology and repreasenting it seems too improper? Your such comments look like you are here categorising other editors into religious categories. No edit should be done for religion. It should be your interest not your religion here.
JaMongKut (
talk)
10:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)reply
At least don't make such comments to me, I'm not here to represent any religious ideology, I'm religiously neutral here. Please
JaMongKut (
talk)
10:28, 15 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 26 June 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: There's a distinct consensus against a primary redirect to the prime minister and no consensus for the move. (
t ·
c) buidhe22:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - The
Barack (disambiguation) page only has three entries:
Barack Obama,
Barack (name) and
Barack (brandy). The POTUS is clearly the primary topic between those three. While Sunak is the primary topic at present, will he be the primary topic with long-term significance? The present arrangement is perfectly fine, with the Sanskrit term as the primary topic, and a hatnote for Sunak and the dab page at the top.
estar8806 (
talk)
★16:02, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
We get it, pageviews by themselves support the move, you've made the same argument three times now. But pageviews are far from the only factor to consider in finding a
WP:PTOPIC.
Support moving the term but oppose redirection to the prime minster given the lack of long-term significance for the single word, instead move the DAB to the base name and add the PM. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
07:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 4 July 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
Support per my previous comments. Indeed I expected a new RM would probably be needed as the previous one was mainly focused on a primary redirect. There are enough targets in terms of usage and long-term significance to have no primary topic for the single word. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
18:22, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - the term "rishi" has been used for over 3,500 years to refer to an Indian 'seer'; the personal Rishi has only recently beco.e associated, for the larger audience, with the prime minister of Great Britain. And, but maybe I'm old, since when are prime ministers primarily referred to by their first name, instead of their surname?
Joshua Jonathan -
Let's talk!18:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. The prime minister is not the primary topic, neither is the Sanskrit term. The former arguably has a stronger case than the latter, but neither is clearly a ptopic. These are the situations where it's best to dabify.
estar8806 (
talk)
★23:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I am persuadable to the argument that the overall mass of people named one way can outweigh a single popular topic's claim to primary topic, and the Kannada and Tamil actors as well as Kapoor already attract on the whole more interest than the topic of Rishi itself, but then you'd also have to analyze the overall interest in Category:Rishis and all relevant articles there, so it's probably moot, just like the popularity of Sunak is recent. It's clear that there will be some amount of average English readers who will remember the spelling of the UK prime minister's given name but not his surname, and so helping them use the given name to navigate is worthwhile, I don't think 97+78 clicks to this effect in a month's time warrant a change away from just having a hatnote, which we already have. Let's re-examine this after a few more months to see if there's a new pattern actually evolving. --
Joy (
talk)
07:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support - UK prime ministers are a major deal, even in this day and age, and although the Sanskrit term may be of long-lasting significance, it's hardly a well-known or even particularly significant thing globally. All in all, a disambiguation page is clearly the best route for readers, not giving prominence to either topic and allowing them to make an informed decision about where to go next. —
Amakuru (
talk)
21:05, 19 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support but I'd use (title) instead of the proposed format. Term makes it sound like something that's hard to describe, like a religious concept but it's clearly a title of sorts.
Killuminator (
talk)
11:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)reply
oppose like Joshua Jonathan said, since when head of states are being referred to with their first names? Even USA uses last name (Bush, Obama, Trump). England is known for using second names. Currently, there is no need to change anything. If the common usages change in the future, we can create a new RM, but till then, we should keep the thousands of years old term as it is. Why not use hatnotes? —usernamekiran
(talk)17:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)reply
There are several other competing topics as well – e.g. two actors known mononymously. The PM is not the only alternative topic – there are a lot of them. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
followup to previous move discussion
https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Rishi indicates that in September '23, there was a total incoming traffic of 10.2k, total outgoing 1.7k, and in there there were 78 identified clickstreams of Rishi Sunak at #5, and 61 of Rishi (disambiguation) at #9. In total that's about 8% of outgoing clickstreams and about 1.35% of the total views. --
Joy (
talk)
19:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
The contents of the Ruesi page were
merged into
Rishi on 6 July 2016. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see
its talk page.
The following addition has been reverted for the fourth time in row (3 times by me, 1 time by
Vandamonde:
"Rishis are a seeker of enlightenment, who try to connect with the supreme being through meditation. Rishis are elevated humans who may sometimes ultimately connect with the supreme being through enlightenment. They may also receive direct guidance from God. Post-Vedic tradition regards the Rishis as "sages" or saints, constituting a peculiar class of human beings who have received enlightenment direct from God, in some cases rishis may also refer to Abrahamic prophets as mentioned in the earliest Vedas"
There are several problems with this "info":
The lead is supposed to summarize the article; this "info" is not in the article.
It's not about the historical rishis, but about a contemporary understanding or interpretation of "rishis". As such, it needs references.
"Rishis are a seeker of enlightenment" - rishis were poets who invoked the gods. The term "enlightenment" is a modern, western term, not a Vedic term;
"who try to connect with the supreme being through meditation" - meditation was most likely not part of the Vedic rituals;
"who may sometimes ultimately connect" - this is unintelligent; what does this sentence mean?
"connect with the supreme being through enlightenment" - this is a specific understanding of what "enlightenment means;
"They may also receive direct guidance from God" - like the Jewish profets?
"in some cases rishis may also refer to Abrahamic prophets as mentioned in the earliest Vedas" - I'm looking forward to the sources which establish this kind of connection between the Abrahamic profets and the Vedas.
@
245CMR: Such arguements should be avoided, see this and that. Also, if we take tyhis arguement into consideration, but this is not proper reason. Please don't start edit war, for the reasons which seems totally improper and the edits seems to be POV pushing. Please you were the one who changed the sequence, you should please provide the reason. It was already also Neutrality. Also some comments like What if Gautama Buddha........ seems too inappropriate. Is it like, here you are not for religion, no one is of speific religion, as of me. Are you here for religion. Do you really do it for proving your religious ideology superior. Edit Wikipedia neutrally,pleease. You can surely have interest in specific topic, but such being the representative of religious ideology and repreasenting it seems too improper? Your such comments look like you are here categorising other editors into religious categories. No edit should be done for religion. It should be your interest not your religion here.
JaMongKut (
talk)
10:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)reply
At least don't make such comments to me, I'm not here to represent any religious ideology, I'm religiously neutral here. Please
JaMongKut (
talk)
10:28, 15 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 26 June 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: There's a distinct consensus against a primary redirect to the prime minister and no consensus for the move. (
t ·
c) buidhe22:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - The
Barack (disambiguation) page only has three entries:
Barack Obama,
Barack (name) and
Barack (brandy). The POTUS is clearly the primary topic between those three. While Sunak is the primary topic at present, will he be the primary topic with long-term significance? The present arrangement is perfectly fine, with the Sanskrit term as the primary topic, and a hatnote for Sunak and the dab page at the top.
estar8806 (
talk)
★16:02, 26 June 2023 (UTC)reply
We get it, pageviews by themselves support the move, you've made the same argument three times now. But pageviews are far from the only factor to consider in finding a
WP:PTOPIC.
Support moving the term but oppose redirection to the prime minster given the lack of long-term significance for the single word, instead move the DAB to the base name and add the PM. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
07:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 4 July 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
Support per my previous comments. Indeed I expected a new RM would probably be needed as the previous one was mainly focused on a primary redirect. There are enough targets in terms of usage and long-term significance to have no primary topic for the single word. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
18:22, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - the term "rishi" has been used for over 3,500 years to refer to an Indian 'seer'; the personal Rishi has only recently beco.e associated, for the larger audience, with the prime minister of Great Britain. And, but maybe I'm old, since when are prime ministers primarily referred to by their first name, instead of their surname?
Joshua Jonathan -
Let's talk!18:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. The prime minister is not the primary topic, neither is the Sanskrit term. The former arguably has a stronger case than the latter, but neither is clearly a ptopic. These are the situations where it's best to dabify.
estar8806 (
talk)
★23:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I am persuadable to the argument that the overall mass of people named one way can outweigh a single popular topic's claim to primary topic, and the Kannada and Tamil actors as well as Kapoor already attract on the whole more interest than the topic of Rishi itself, but then you'd also have to analyze the overall interest in Category:Rishis and all relevant articles there, so it's probably moot, just like the popularity of Sunak is recent. It's clear that there will be some amount of average English readers who will remember the spelling of the UK prime minister's given name but not his surname, and so helping them use the given name to navigate is worthwhile, I don't think 97+78 clicks to this effect in a month's time warrant a change away from just having a hatnote, which we already have. Let's re-examine this after a few more months to see if there's a new pattern actually evolving. --
Joy (
talk)
07:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support - UK prime ministers are a major deal, even in this day and age, and although the Sanskrit term may be of long-lasting significance, it's hardly a well-known or even particularly significant thing globally. All in all, a disambiguation page is clearly the best route for readers, not giving prominence to either topic and allowing them to make an informed decision about where to go next. —
Amakuru (
talk)
21:05, 19 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support but I'd use (title) instead of the proposed format. Term makes it sound like something that's hard to describe, like a religious concept but it's clearly a title of sorts.
Killuminator (
talk)
11:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)reply
oppose like Joshua Jonathan said, since when head of states are being referred to with their first names? Even USA uses last name (Bush, Obama, Trump). England is known for using second names. Currently, there is no need to change anything. If the common usages change in the future, we can create a new RM, but till then, we should keep the thousands of years old term as it is. Why not use hatnotes? —usernamekiran
(talk)17:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)reply
There are several other competing topics as well – e.g. two actors known mononymously. The PM is not the only alternative topic – there are a lot of them. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
followup to previous move discussion
https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Rishi indicates that in September '23, there was a total incoming traffic of 10.2k, total outgoing 1.7k, and in there there were 78 identified clickstreams of Rishi Sunak at #5, and 61 of Rishi (disambiguation) at #9. In total that's about 8% of outgoing clickstreams and about 1.35% of the total views. --
Joy (
talk)
19:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)reply