![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Why is there a paragraph with no sources under the fiscal policy title that talks about Perry's redistricting?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.163.112.120 ( talk) 05:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
AGR didn't have a chapter at Texas A and M until 1986. A 1972 graduate couldn't have been a member. "Perry attended Texas A&M University, where he was a member of the Corps of Cadets, a member of the Alpha Gamma Rho fraternity and one of A&M's five yell leaders (a popular Texas A&M tradition analogous to male cheerleaders) " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.178.233 ( talk) 10:35, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Need to add the fact that Rick Perry was invited to and attended the Bildenberg conference in Turkey three years ago (May 31 2007). I have numerous sources--the Dallas Morning News (page no, date, article title, etc.), Glenn Beck, Austin TV channel 8 newscast, another local paper, etc. This is relevant because it violates the Logan Act and per your article on Bildenber--it is a secret organization of international whos whos--and voters have a right to know this and would want this information in evaluating Perry and other candidates. If you maintain that it is irrelevant you should delete the section you have in his biography on his vacation to Asia. Keeping this out is censorship.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 03:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
Sheilakissane (
talk)
03:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I did not create the additional section on the Perry Bilderberg meeting. Someone else did. Check it out. Guess what?? I am not the only one who thinks the Bilderberg visit is relevant. Most of your voters may not care but a lot of them will. I the question of whether or not you print the truth in you articles determined by popular vote?? Governor of Texas went to a secret international conference of the world's whos who 3 years ago and now he is suddenly a viable presidential candidate with donations flowing in like water. Also CNN preempted their programming on Saturday morning to cover his speech announcing the candidacy. How many other candidates did they do this for? How many other candidates went to the Bilderberg conference?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) 21:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
"Perry has for while been incredibly good at fundraising". Since how long is awhile--since he went to Bilderberg three years ago. OK. About 12 candidates announced for president as republicans. Which other ones did CNN preempt its regular morning broadcasts for??? Yea. Right. Good luck( Sheilakissane ( talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 22:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC).
Perry raised $100 million in 10 years as governor--more than half of it from 51 donors. All big corporations to whom he gave back a state with the most minimum wage jobs in the country and no limitations on illegal alien inflows. Let's see how he does post his little junket to Turkey. Watch the PAC contributions pour in.
The show that CNN preempted was "Your Money" in a week when the stock market looked like the cyclone roller coaster at Coney Island and everyone thought they would lose their 401ks. I have seen this show preempted twice before--once was for Katrina. Curiouser and curiouser.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC))
User:Corwin8 recently added the following line into the article: "However, the Houston Chronicle has noted that Perry was only "Playing to the base" and has taken no steps to promote intelligent design in the classroom," referencing the Houston Chronicle. I've reverted it, as the citation looks to fail WP:RS, as it appears to be a blog post. While I agree that Perry's actions are just as important as his views, a better reference would be necessary in my opinion for this to be considered reliable enough for inclusion. Kessy628 ( talk) 01:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The current section on Intelligent Design is cited, however it should be expanded if possible. I've found a source with a couple of links to various speeches and press releases Perry has given/released, however I don't know how far into detail in fleshing it out and such. If someone is willing to give it a go, I'd be willing to copyedit it, otherwise I'll give it a try over the weekend when I have more time I guess. http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues_religious_right_watch_rick_perry#CREATIONISM Kessy628 ( talk) 17:57, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
We have comments from six years ago on this page and it is getting pretty long so I suggest we setup an auto-archive routine. I could probably figure it out but don't want to break the page. Concurrence? Veriss ( talk) 00:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I've set up MiszaBot to autoarchive the page. Hopefully this will work correctly and solve the problems. Kessy628 ( talk) 01:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
In connection with the above, I see the article currently has a WFAA and a New Yorker article in External links. If these could be moved to be references to the relevant material in the body of the article, that would discourage the addition of other separate news articles. They are about two very specific points, and it doesn't appear encyclopedic for those points and only those points to be highlighted in External links. There are so many collected news sources available for this person that separate news articles aren't needed in this section. 75.59.226.113 ( talk) 15:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Perry:""I think people are making a lot of this issue"
Shake-up in Texas execution probe draws criticism, questions, CNN, October 01, 2009. 91.39.75.214 ( talk) 22:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Rick Perry leaning against a jet.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests August 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC) |
Needs a section, one way or the other — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.247.29.132 ( talk) 01:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
from another section re relevance of Perry attending Bilderberg--
Wikipedia article--"Bilderberg Club is an annual, unofficial, invitation-only conference of approximately 120 to 140 guests from North America and Western Europe, most of whom are people of influence.[1] About one-third are from government and politics, and two-thirds from finance, industry, labour, education and communications. Meetings are closed to the public and often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names" Meetings are closed to the public and so are secret. Article in the Dallas Morning News about Perry's trip in 2007 was entitled "Perry attends secret meeting in Turkey."
Wikipedia article further goes on to say that the annual Bilderberg meeting are designed to "to foster cooperation on political, economic, and defense issues." Again Wikipedia article on the Logan Act--"The text of the Act is broad and is addressed at any attempt of a US citizen to conduct foreign relations without authority" --Is Perry's attendance a possible violation of the Logan Act??? Going to Turkey to "foster cooperation on political..and defense issues" with heads of other foreign governments in attendance couldn't possibly constitute "conducting foreign relations"??? I guess we'll never know if US political figures attending this meeting are violating the Logan Act or not since the meetings are secret.
Who is not going to want to know this about a guy who suddenly becomes a viable pres candidate 3 years after he attends with money flowing in like water and CNN preempting its broadcasting for him???? Note in particular from Wikipedia quote above--and often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names" (Sheilakissane (talk) 21:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs)
I don't think it was "decided", only that during the very short time it was discussed, no one interested in its inclusion was able to demonstrate it was important enough without veering off toward murky conspiracy territory. Please provide sources that it is somehow important for a biography of a living person and I will be happy to add it myself. Veriss ( talk) 18:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hey, guy, look again. Dallas Morning News ran an article on it on May 31, 2007, page 4a, entitled--"Perry attends secret meeting in Turkey", Glenn Beck did part of a show on it, there is a channel 8 newscast recording of the story, and references to some smaller Texas papers who reported on Perry's attendance. Are you saying you doubt he attended??
Relevance to voters is this is a secret meeting with world leaders in attendance. Three years later the guy is a viable candidate for presidency with CNN preempting all their broadcasting to cover his presidential announcement. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:59, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
Do you doubt that he showed up??? ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)) Kind of important if a guy comes from nowhere to suddenly become a presidential candidate with money flowing like water and CNN preempting all their broadcasting for him. Also according to your article--Wikipedia--on Bilderber--they are kingmakers.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
We're repeating ourselves, again. This discussion appears to have run its course unless some new information is found. Veriss ( talk) 23:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's article on Bilderberg, it is an international gathering of 120 political, economic, and industrial leaders from all over the world held in secret. The purpose of the meeting is to foster international cooperation (according to Wikipedia). Let's drill down a bit on "fostering cooperation"--If governor Rick Perry is at such a secret meeting fostering cooperation, are you afraid your readers could speculate that Perry was discussing an international highway corridor through his state with a couple of Spanish Industrialists, for example. Or maybe discussing the "privatization" or fire sale of assets from the state of Texas (ostensibly to balance the state budget) to some foreign economists--in exchange for the funds needed to make a presidential run??? I believe you guys are afraid of the implications of the trip--not afraid that it is not relevant. Why not put a cork in the inappropriate censorship of the fact that the guy was invited and made the trip 3 years ago--and let your readers form their own conclusions if they wish? The truth will set you free and bookburning and yellow journalism are not cool. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
Not quite because you don't read. From another editor (sources) but I guess these aren't good enuff. You have to have been there, I guess--
Those sources, plus the fact that many anti-Perry forces are harping on the trip now (in 2011) make it at least worthy of a minor mention in this article. --Noleander (talk) 22:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I have read the Dallas Morning News article but would also add a video from Austin channel 8 news, a segment from the Glen Beck show. Hey, Allen, why don't you go and get on the US trip to the moon article and complain that there aren't enuff substantiating sources for that. You know--a lot of people like you believe that the moon landing was all staged. Another little job for you--have you substantiated that it was in fact Osama who was taken out by the uS Seals instead of a fake????? Some of you guys are a piece of work ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
As a three-term governor of a large state with several major cities, every major Texas news source has a separate news section just for him, going back to the start of his governorship. To avoid a list of individual articles at the end of External links, including the two we already have from the Austin Chronicle, I suggest listing the following as representative of various local viewpoints. 75.59.226.113 ( talk) 15:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Done: I still think there are too many ELs in there but I've added all of the ones you requested. I took a stab at organizing it and it looks easier to use now in my opinion. Veriss ( talk) 02:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I think this belongs in the article, see [3], [4] and other sources. His religion section looks incomplete and possibly pov without this. Dougweller ( talk) 07:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Right now we have a section on Perry's governorship that (properly) includes his record as Governor, but also includes things he's said -- and although he said them while Governor, they didn't relate to his office. For example, the Governor of Texas is not responsible for supervising the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board or for having him beaten up when appropriate. This and several other passages in that section really belong in a separate "Political positions" section. This is the organization followed in, for example, the Mitt Romney article.
If the two subjects are broken out, there will be some duplication, as the "Political positions" section should include reference to positions he took in the course of being Governor. I don't see a big problem if there's some overlap of that sort.
Does anyone see any reason not to effect this re-organization? JamesMLane t c 02:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
"The administration of Gov. Rick Perry of Texas, a Republican presidential candidate, has doled out millions of dollars in grants that benefit some of his most generous donors. State money awarded to G-Con, a pharmaceutical start-up, provides an example of how state grants appear to be paying dividends for some major Perry contributors."
Why is this in Perry's biography? Economy of Texas is the appropriate place for this information unless we're directly relating it to Perry's notability, claims he's made, or other sources that directly correlate it to actions of Perry. As of now, there is no context here that would make this appropriate for this article. Morphh (talk) 03:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Someone collected some relevant BLS numbers on the economy. It looks like the reason Texas has median unemployment in spite of the highest job growth rate is partly from everyone moving there (BLS shows the population growth is much faster than the second fastest-growing state). The guy who posted it doesn't appear to be a Perry supporter, though, so I'm not sure if it's relevant, since the section seems to be about the debate between supporters/detractors, and I haven't heard anyone else talk about these figures. Beardc ( talk) 21:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
BLS pegs the median hourly wage in Texas at $15.14, 93% of the national average, and wages have increased at a good clip: in fact, the 10th fastest state in 2010 at 3.4%.
The Texas economy section is written in such a way as to undermine perry's claims while maintaining a veneer of objectivity. Job GROWTH in texas is off the charts and is very much a function of the states pro-business policies. The high number of min wage jobs is a plus as it shows young workers flocking to Texas, the health insurance statistic is meaningless unless the high number of illegals in texas is considered..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.26.159.130 ( talk) 17:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
"The problem here isn’t just that Perry has the wrong answer. The more meaningful problem is that Perry doesn’t seem to know how to even formulate an answer. He starts with a proposition in his mind (abstinence-only education is effective), and when confronted with evidence that the proposition appears false (high teen-pregnancy rates), the governor simply hangs onto his belief, untroubled by evidence. As Jon Chait put it, Perry seems to struggle “even to think in empirical terms"
91.4.231.207 ( talk) 19:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it spelled with an A? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.123.137 ( talk) 20:06, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
The explanation of Perry's "Mandatory Ultrasound Bill" says that "Before every abortion, the abortion practitioner must give an explanation of the sonogram images of the unborn child. The woman may waive this right only in cases of rape, incest, fetal abnormality, and judicial bypass for a minor."
The problem I see is that this procedure is mandatory, potentially against the woman's will, which means it is not a right, it is an obligation. I suggest an amendment of the explanation to read as follows:
"The woman has the right to waive this procedure only in cases of rape, incest, fetal abnormality, and judicial bypass for a minor."
This more accurately describes the relationship between the woman's rights and the law's force.
Mguttman ( talk) 21:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm considering whether to add a line to reflect some recent international press comment on concerns in the Perry camp that resurfacing accusations of him being gay will impact upon his campaign e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2006527/Possible-Republican-presidential-candidate-Rick-Perry-battling-gay-rumours--seven-years-denial.html It seems that he went on record in 2004 to specifically refute suh allegations. Any thoughts? Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I have to agree with Contaldo80. I never heard anything like that either. Maybe you should ask yourself whether there's any actual proof that Perry was gay before you start editing wikipedia and inventing stories. In any case, it's not relevant to the article. Mardiste ( talk) 21:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I just did a google search and yeah it's there. But it doesn't change my opinion. Nobody's every proven a single thing. Ignore the trolls who are so sure about what they think they know. Mardiste ( talk) 21:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Veriss! It was in the Washington Post. Mardiste ( talk) 19:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC) http://www.slate.com/id/2266921/
I linked it because you asked me to link it. Please scroll up the page approximately two inches Mardiste ( talk) 19:26, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
This is not something invented by the Daily Mail. The rumors have been around for a while. My recollection is that Hutchison tried to push the idea in the 2010 primary but she wanted to do so without leaving her fingerprints on it, and it didn't have much impact. Well-sourced information on that point or on the impact of the rumors on his current campaign could be included in the daughter articles (each of those campaigns already has one), but I don't see anything there that's important enough for the main bio, unless it becomes much more prominent. JamesMLane t c 04:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't know why in the hell this article is locked, but the bit in there about his environmental positions related to climate change needs to say that he believes that "a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling in to their projects."
Here is the cite: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/rick-perry-climate-scientists-cooking-the-books_n_929876.html
This is a key accusation by this dude on a major policy issue and needs to be included in this (rather lame) entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.36.165 ( talk) 02:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
This section has been tagged as uncited since June. After reading it twice, it seems to go into detail about the political misfortunes of a justice but barely relates to Perry. My inclination is that it can be reduced to a short paragraph and moved to the general section about Perry's term as Gov. or removed completely. In what ever form it takes it of course needs to be sourced or removed soon. Veriss ( talk) 22:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
The "Governor" section has gotten huge. Do you think it's time to move it into a sub-article and replace with a summary? That seems to be standard practice for articles like this, such as Barack Obama or Sarah Palin. -- Coemgenus ( talk) 13:42, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
The Texas Observer is a very good source for what's going on in Texas regarding Mr Perry http://www.texasobserver.org/the-perry-trail
I propose that the following text be added to the article:
Perry has been accused of hypocrisy for investing between $5,000 and $10,000 of his own money in Movie Gallery, the country's largest distributor of pornography. The company had been under boycott by the American Family Association, a supporter of Perry's. [1]
71.182.251.33 ( talk) 08:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
12.^ "Rick Perry's Texas A&M Transcript". huffingtonpost.com. August 5, 2011. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html. Retrieved August 16, 2011. 13.^ Computational methodology at Talk:Rick_Perry#Rick_Perry.27s_G.P.A.
The Huffington Post is notorious for being an attack website much as Fox News for being Faux News.
What is this "computational methodology"? I thought that Wikipedia had some sort of "no independent synthesis or research" rule? If so, someone is using their own calculator to prove Perry is an idiot. He is an idiot but so are quite a few politicians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User123456789A ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
This had been in the article for about 3 years until removed without explanation on May 1st. I only noticed this after someone removed his name from List of Bilderberg participants with no explanation, and it clearly belongs there. Perry is not a typical attendee and if it isn't appropriate here it certainly isn't appropriate in other articles such as Gordon Campbell's, so this may affect other articles. It's become a subject of discussion again in the last few days, see [6]. Dougweller ( talk) 20:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
So you are saying that this guy's attendance at a PTA meeting or a town hall is the same as if he takes off to go to a secret meeting in Turkey of world leaders and three years later suddently becomes a viable presidential candidate with money flowing in like water and CNN preempting their Saturday broadcasting for the guy. Maybe so--but aren't you stretching it a bit. What other normal meetings do you think a Bilderberg attendance is equivalent too??? --the Austin ladies' club??? Yea. Right. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:22, 16 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
The guy attends a secret conference of world leaders and 3 years later is a viable presidential candidate with money flowing in and CNN preempting all its programing for him last Saturday. OK. Let's just not include anything that's not favorable to the guy. Or why not just ask Perry and see what he wants??? Truth in journalism??? OK. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
If you think the Bilderber meetings are not secret you better do some editing on your wikipedia article on the Bilderberg which says that the meetings are secret--ie press not allowed. If you believe this guy did not go to a secret meeting in Turkey attended by world political and business leaders three years ago maybe you should be still waiting for the Easter Bunny.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Don't bother me with the facts. My mind is made up too. Hey guys. Wake up and smell the roses. There are three blogs on this subject. How often does that happen?? Guess that shows you may be wrong about this being important--but I guess that depends on your agenda. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Why don't you add some more information to the paragraph on his vacation to Asia? That's probably more non-fringe and more important than his trip to a secret meeting of the world's political leaders in Turkey.
Yea. Right. There are 3 or 4 separate blogs on this started by 3 or 4 different people. Fringe theory? What theory? Do you know what a theory is?? Are you saying you don't believe the guy took the trip and that it's just a theory?? Or maybe you think its not significant. Maybe next time he goes to a secret meeting in Turkey with world political and economic leaders we can get him to give a press conference announcing that he plans to make some deals, some quid pro quos, and plans to violate the Logan Act. Or maybe you just have an agenda and would still have another series of objections to including this information?? You are on the fringe in censoring information that is true, fully documented, and people want to know about. This is so much BS. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Also notable and of significance--according to the Wikipedia list of attendees--Rick Perry is one of only two US governors who have ever been invited to attend a Bilderberg meeting. Also interesting that the only other governor invited was Mark Sanford who--according to Wikipedia--was also a leading candidate for the republican presidency in the 2012 election. Perhaps there are other governors who were invited by Bilderberg but Wikipedia censored this information too. Excluding this important trip from Perry's bio and--yet-- including a blurb about a vacation to Asia is blatant yellow journalism. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 16:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I would like to also mention, I just looked at the List of Bilderberg participants. Not only does the only other US governor on the list, Mark Sanford not have anything about him attending on his page, but the only pages that I found reliably sourced information about any US politician attending were Roger Altman (who's on the group's Steering Committee), Charles Douglas Jackson (who's a founder), and George Wildman Ball (who according to his article attended every meeting except one until died; much more than Perry's single visit). Many of the other people listed on the list have no reference at all in their articles (definitely a majority), including Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford, and John Edwards, to name a few. For the ones who do have that they attended, it is either unsourced or in a style mentioned by Noleander above. I think the fact that Sanford not having anything listed, him being the only other governor on the list of participants, is the style we should be looking at, as it's the closest match in terms of similar articles. Kessy628 ( talk) 17:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Your conclusion is a non-sequitur. The fact that Sanford's attendance at Bilderberg is not included in his bio is merely an indication to me that --although it should have been--it was not because it was censored in the past. Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford, and John Edwards should have the fact that they attended Bilderberg included on their history. So--rather than showing cause to not include the Bilderberg trip on Perry's bio--I believe you have turned up a number of past yellow journalistic censorships on the part of Wikipedia that have occurred (or possibly just omissions that should be cured). Interesting that John Edwards attended and he was a major Democratic presidential candidate in past years. Curiouser and curiouser. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 17:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)) — Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Bilderberg's only activity is its annual Conference. At the meetings, no resolutions are proposed, no votes taken, and no policy statements issued. Since 1954, fifty-eight conferences have been held. The names of the participants are made available to the press. Participants are chosen for their experience, their knowledge, and their standing; all participants attend Bilderberg in a private and not an official capacity." And it is extremely likely that a law that has not been enforced in two centuries is not valid - it hasn't been challenged because there's been no reason to challenge a law that never gets used, but a number of people seem to think it is unconstitutional. But that's beside the point, which is that no editor should take it upon themselves to suggest that anyone has violated any law. Dougweller ( talk) 19:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
From the Perry bio. Even the guys trip to the Caymen Islands is mentioned but I guess Bilderberg doesn't count-- "In June 2010, Perry went on a 12-day trade mission to East Asia. The security detail for the trip cost $129,000 in state money. The Texas Government attempted to block the media's scrutiny of the use of the funds as they contained information that could compromise the future security of the state's senior executive. A member of White's gubernatorial campaign stated that Perry should, "stop hiding the facts on fiscal issues like what he's charging taxpayers for travel". Perry's campaign countered that the trip led to greater exposure for Texas business opportunities in Asia.[74][75] In all, Perry made 23 foreign trips from 2004 to 2010, including a vacation on Grand Cayman" Curiouser and curiouser. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:27, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
No. Sounds like he paid for his vacation to the Caymen Islands--might has missed it but I don't see where it says the state paid. His PAC paid for his trip to the secret Bilderberg conference so it's not necessarily about funding and most of the money controversy was around the $129,000 plus bills for security (some of which may have been incurred on his junket to Bilderberg). ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 19:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I still have some reservations about this as I have long opposed mentioning the Bilderberg trip on the grounds of notability and WP:RS. I was also concerned that it would provide a beachhead for theorists to expand even a brief mention of it into something more. However, because an apparently intractable, single-purpose account has besieged this talk page for nearly a week over a single sentence, I am willing to find a compromise to clear the air and let us move on to more important issues.
I think User:Noleander's suggestion is a starting point. "An even better solution is to include it in a longer sentence that lists several events, such as "Perry has participated in several leadership forums, including AAA, BBB, CCC, Bilderberg, and DDD". That would be encyclopedic and should satisfy all concerns."
Please comment Support or Oppose and give your reasoning and if applicable, some suggested wording or attended events with reliable sources along with your position. Veriss ( talk) 19:39, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Note: I have requested expert assistance at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Talk:_Rick_Perry so we can get some outside eyes on this. Veriss ( talk) 20:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
The guy was invited--one of 120 atendees at a secret international meeting including top political, economic, and industry figures from all over the world convening to "foster cooperation" (according to wiki article on Bilderberg). Why conceal the fact that Perry attended and let your readers decide what "fostering cooperation" means-- if someone wants to accuse the guy of some conspiracy --so what??. Are we trying to control people's thoughts and imaginings here or include what is significant and noteworthy in peoples' bios?? I don't see anyone in any of the blogs proposing or putting forward the fostering of a "manchurian candidate" scenario here. That's an old movie and the cold war ended in case you hadn't heard. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 00:42, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
(Removed text which was a clear BLP violation) Dougweller ( talk) 19:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Copied from above--in this same section. Duh. I dunno. You tell me---
And I would add video of a channel 8 newscast from Austin and a show of Glenn Beck's. Do you doubt that the guy attended a secret international Bilderberg conference 3 years ago in Turkey with politician, ecnomists, and industrialists from all over the world to "foster international cooperation"???? Do you think it never happened??? Do you believe we ever landed on the moon??? Hello.... ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I have seen at support to include this from at least 4 or 5 others. So to say I am the only is a gross mischaracterization-again. Also have been 5 sections started on this and I only started one so you comment is coming out of your back end.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Thank you for the caution. And I would advise you to get real.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Goodbye. You need to go to the Wikipedia article on the US moon landing and contest it based on neutrality and the absence of reliable sources. A lot of people think that was faked on a Hollywood set. Maybe you can prove it( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
No. I hear you. Understand that some of my posts have been mischaracterized. I am not promoting the impuning of any quid pro quos or any conspiracy theories to the guy's attendance. No doubt but that the guy went and I believe it is important to include the fact that he was invited and did attend--120 attendees, the world leaders in politics, economics, and industry, trying to arrive at consensuses (don't have to say all that). I just believe to not report it is yellow journalism and do not understand some of the objections--just don't compute. Please understand that I am new to this just got hooked in because I looked at Perry's bio, tried to put it in, and had my info deleted. But not promoting the inclusion of any implications that the guy was necessarily doing any dirt. It should be reported and--as far as I am concerned--people can make up their own minds about it. I understand you guys don't editorialize--not advocating that. I will rest my case ( 72.222.135.204 ( talk) 00:32, 19 August 2011 (UTC)) Sorry. Forgot to sign it.( 72.222.135.204 ( talk) 00:34, 19 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Sounds like truth in journalism on Wikipedia and the accurate recording of history are subject to majority rule. If Perry's invitation to Bilderberg is not important enough to include in a 500 plus word bio on the guy, maybe you should just eliminate it altogether from any inclusion anywhere. Since this is a secret meeting I'm sure the organizers will not be upset. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC))
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Why is there a paragraph with no sources under the fiscal policy title that talks about Perry's redistricting?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.163.112.120 ( talk) 05:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
AGR didn't have a chapter at Texas A and M until 1986. A 1972 graduate couldn't have been a member. "Perry attended Texas A&M University, where he was a member of the Corps of Cadets, a member of the Alpha Gamma Rho fraternity and one of A&M's five yell leaders (a popular Texas A&M tradition analogous to male cheerleaders) " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.178.233 ( talk) 10:35, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Need to add the fact that Rick Perry was invited to and attended the Bildenberg conference in Turkey three years ago (May 31 2007). I have numerous sources--the Dallas Morning News (page no, date, article title, etc.), Glenn Beck, Austin TV channel 8 newscast, another local paper, etc. This is relevant because it violates the Logan Act and per your article on Bildenber--it is a secret organization of international whos whos--and voters have a right to know this and would want this information in evaluating Perry and other candidates. If you maintain that it is irrelevant you should delete the section you have in his biography on his vacation to Asia. Keeping this out is censorship.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 03:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
Sheilakissane (
talk)
03:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I did not create the additional section on the Perry Bilderberg meeting. Someone else did. Check it out. Guess what?? I am not the only one who thinks the Bilderberg visit is relevant. Most of your voters may not care but a lot of them will. I the question of whether or not you print the truth in you articles determined by popular vote?? Governor of Texas went to a secret international conference of the world's whos who 3 years ago and now he is suddenly a viable presidential candidate with donations flowing in like water. Also CNN preempted their programming on Saturday morning to cover his speech announcing the candidacy. How many other candidates did they do this for? How many other candidates went to the Bilderberg conference?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) 21:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
"Perry has for while been incredibly good at fundraising". Since how long is awhile--since he went to Bilderberg three years ago. OK. About 12 candidates announced for president as republicans. Which other ones did CNN preempt its regular morning broadcasts for??? Yea. Right. Good luck( Sheilakissane ( talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 22:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC).
Perry raised $100 million in 10 years as governor--more than half of it from 51 donors. All big corporations to whom he gave back a state with the most minimum wage jobs in the country and no limitations on illegal alien inflows. Let's see how he does post his little junket to Turkey. Watch the PAC contributions pour in.
The show that CNN preempted was "Your Money" in a week when the stock market looked like the cyclone roller coaster at Coney Island and everyone thought they would lose their 401ks. I have seen this show preempted twice before--once was for Katrina. Curiouser and curiouser.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC))
User:Corwin8 recently added the following line into the article: "However, the Houston Chronicle has noted that Perry was only "Playing to the base" and has taken no steps to promote intelligent design in the classroom," referencing the Houston Chronicle. I've reverted it, as the citation looks to fail WP:RS, as it appears to be a blog post. While I agree that Perry's actions are just as important as his views, a better reference would be necessary in my opinion for this to be considered reliable enough for inclusion. Kessy628 ( talk) 01:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The current section on Intelligent Design is cited, however it should be expanded if possible. I've found a source with a couple of links to various speeches and press releases Perry has given/released, however I don't know how far into detail in fleshing it out and such. If someone is willing to give it a go, I'd be willing to copyedit it, otherwise I'll give it a try over the weekend when I have more time I guess. http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues_religious_right_watch_rick_perry#CREATIONISM Kessy628 ( talk) 17:57, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
We have comments from six years ago on this page and it is getting pretty long so I suggest we setup an auto-archive routine. I could probably figure it out but don't want to break the page. Concurrence? Veriss ( talk) 00:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I've set up MiszaBot to autoarchive the page. Hopefully this will work correctly and solve the problems. Kessy628 ( talk) 01:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
In connection with the above, I see the article currently has a WFAA and a New Yorker article in External links. If these could be moved to be references to the relevant material in the body of the article, that would discourage the addition of other separate news articles. They are about two very specific points, and it doesn't appear encyclopedic for those points and only those points to be highlighted in External links. There are so many collected news sources available for this person that separate news articles aren't needed in this section. 75.59.226.113 ( talk) 15:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Perry:""I think people are making a lot of this issue"
Shake-up in Texas execution probe draws criticism, questions, CNN, October 01, 2009. 91.39.75.214 ( talk) 22:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Rick Perry leaning against a jet.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests August 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC) |
Needs a section, one way or the other — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.247.29.132 ( talk) 01:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
from another section re relevance of Perry attending Bilderberg--
Wikipedia article--"Bilderberg Club is an annual, unofficial, invitation-only conference of approximately 120 to 140 guests from North America and Western Europe, most of whom are people of influence.[1] About one-third are from government and politics, and two-thirds from finance, industry, labour, education and communications. Meetings are closed to the public and often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names" Meetings are closed to the public and so are secret. Article in the Dallas Morning News about Perry's trip in 2007 was entitled "Perry attends secret meeting in Turkey."
Wikipedia article further goes on to say that the annual Bilderberg meeting are designed to "to foster cooperation on political, economic, and defense issues." Again Wikipedia article on the Logan Act--"The text of the Act is broad and is addressed at any attempt of a US citizen to conduct foreign relations without authority" --Is Perry's attendance a possible violation of the Logan Act??? Going to Turkey to "foster cooperation on political..and defense issues" with heads of other foreign governments in attendance couldn't possibly constitute "conducting foreign relations"??? I guess we'll never know if US political figures attending this meeting are violating the Logan Act or not since the meetings are secret.
Who is not going to want to know this about a guy who suddenly becomes a viable pres candidate 3 years after he attends with money flowing in like water and CNN preempting its broadcasting for him???? Note in particular from Wikipedia quote above--and often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names" (Sheilakissane (talk) 21:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs)
I don't think it was "decided", only that during the very short time it was discussed, no one interested in its inclusion was able to demonstrate it was important enough without veering off toward murky conspiracy territory. Please provide sources that it is somehow important for a biography of a living person and I will be happy to add it myself. Veriss ( talk) 18:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hey, guy, look again. Dallas Morning News ran an article on it on May 31, 2007, page 4a, entitled--"Perry attends secret meeting in Turkey", Glenn Beck did part of a show on it, there is a channel 8 newscast recording of the story, and references to some smaller Texas papers who reported on Perry's attendance. Are you saying you doubt he attended??
Relevance to voters is this is a secret meeting with world leaders in attendance. Three years later the guy is a viable candidate for presidency with CNN preempting all their broadcasting to cover his presidential announcement. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:59, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
Do you doubt that he showed up??? ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)) Kind of important if a guy comes from nowhere to suddenly become a presidential candidate with money flowing like water and CNN preempting all their broadcasting for him. Also according to your article--Wikipedia--on Bilderber--they are kingmakers.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
We're repeating ourselves, again. This discussion appears to have run its course unless some new information is found. Veriss ( talk) 23:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia's article on Bilderberg, it is an international gathering of 120 political, economic, and industrial leaders from all over the world held in secret. The purpose of the meeting is to foster international cooperation (according to Wikipedia). Let's drill down a bit on "fostering cooperation"--If governor Rick Perry is at such a secret meeting fostering cooperation, are you afraid your readers could speculate that Perry was discussing an international highway corridor through his state with a couple of Spanish Industrialists, for example. Or maybe discussing the "privatization" or fire sale of assets from the state of Texas (ostensibly to balance the state budget) to some foreign economists--in exchange for the funds needed to make a presidential run??? I believe you guys are afraid of the implications of the trip--not afraid that it is not relevant. Why not put a cork in the inappropriate censorship of the fact that the guy was invited and made the trip 3 years ago--and let your readers form their own conclusions if they wish? The truth will set you free and bookburning and yellow journalism are not cool. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
Not quite because you don't read. From another editor (sources) but I guess these aren't good enuff. You have to have been there, I guess--
Those sources, plus the fact that many anti-Perry forces are harping on the trip now (in 2011) make it at least worthy of a minor mention in this article. --Noleander (talk) 22:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I have read the Dallas Morning News article but would also add a video from Austin channel 8 news, a segment from the Glen Beck show. Hey, Allen, why don't you go and get on the US trip to the moon article and complain that there aren't enuff substantiating sources for that. You know--a lot of people like you believe that the moon landing was all staged. Another little job for you--have you substantiated that it was in fact Osama who was taken out by the uS Seals instead of a fake????? Some of you guys are a piece of work ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
As a three-term governor of a large state with several major cities, every major Texas news source has a separate news section just for him, going back to the start of his governorship. To avoid a list of individual articles at the end of External links, including the two we already have from the Austin Chronicle, I suggest listing the following as representative of various local viewpoints. 75.59.226.113 ( talk) 15:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Done: I still think there are too many ELs in there but I've added all of the ones you requested. I took a stab at organizing it and it looks easier to use now in my opinion. Veriss ( talk) 02:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I think this belongs in the article, see [3], [4] and other sources. His religion section looks incomplete and possibly pov without this. Dougweller ( talk) 07:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Right now we have a section on Perry's governorship that (properly) includes his record as Governor, but also includes things he's said -- and although he said them while Governor, they didn't relate to his office. For example, the Governor of Texas is not responsible for supervising the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board or for having him beaten up when appropriate. This and several other passages in that section really belong in a separate "Political positions" section. This is the organization followed in, for example, the Mitt Romney article.
If the two subjects are broken out, there will be some duplication, as the "Political positions" section should include reference to positions he took in the course of being Governor. I don't see a big problem if there's some overlap of that sort.
Does anyone see any reason not to effect this re-organization? JamesMLane t c 02:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
"The administration of Gov. Rick Perry of Texas, a Republican presidential candidate, has doled out millions of dollars in grants that benefit some of his most generous donors. State money awarded to G-Con, a pharmaceutical start-up, provides an example of how state grants appear to be paying dividends for some major Perry contributors."
Why is this in Perry's biography? Economy of Texas is the appropriate place for this information unless we're directly relating it to Perry's notability, claims he's made, or other sources that directly correlate it to actions of Perry. As of now, there is no context here that would make this appropriate for this article. Morphh (talk) 03:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Someone collected some relevant BLS numbers on the economy. It looks like the reason Texas has median unemployment in spite of the highest job growth rate is partly from everyone moving there (BLS shows the population growth is much faster than the second fastest-growing state). The guy who posted it doesn't appear to be a Perry supporter, though, so I'm not sure if it's relevant, since the section seems to be about the debate between supporters/detractors, and I haven't heard anyone else talk about these figures. Beardc ( talk) 21:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
BLS pegs the median hourly wage in Texas at $15.14, 93% of the national average, and wages have increased at a good clip: in fact, the 10th fastest state in 2010 at 3.4%.
The Texas economy section is written in such a way as to undermine perry's claims while maintaining a veneer of objectivity. Job GROWTH in texas is off the charts and is very much a function of the states pro-business policies. The high number of min wage jobs is a plus as it shows young workers flocking to Texas, the health insurance statistic is meaningless unless the high number of illegals in texas is considered..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.26.159.130 ( talk) 17:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
"The problem here isn’t just that Perry has the wrong answer. The more meaningful problem is that Perry doesn’t seem to know how to even formulate an answer. He starts with a proposition in his mind (abstinence-only education is effective), and when confronted with evidence that the proposition appears false (high teen-pregnancy rates), the governor simply hangs onto his belief, untroubled by evidence. As Jon Chait put it, Perry seems to struggle “even to think in empirical terms"
91.4.231.207 ( talk) 19:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it spelled with an A? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.123.137 ( talk) 20:06, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
The explanation of Perry's "Mandatory Ultrasound Bill" says that "Before every abortion, the abortion practitioner must give an explanation of the sonogram images of the unborn child. The woman may waive this right only in cases of rape, incest, fetal abnormality, and judicial bypass for a minor."
The problem I see is that this procedure is mandatory, potentially against the woman's will, which means it is not a right, it is an obligation. I suggest an amendment of the explanation to read as follows:
"The woman has the right to waive this procedure only in cases of rape, incest, fetal abnormality, and judicial bypass for a minor."
This more accurately describes the relationship between the woman's rights and the law's force.
Mguttman ( talk) 21:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm considering whether to add a line to reflect some recent international press comment on concerns in the Perry camp that resurfacing accusations of him being gay will impact upon his campaign e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2006527/Possible-Republican-presidential-candidate-Rick-Perry-battling-gay-rumours--seven-years-denial.html It seems that he went on record in 2004 to specifically refute suh allegations. Any thoughts? Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I have to agree with Contaldo80. I never heard anything like that either. Maybe you should ask yourself whether there's any actual proof that Perry was gay before you start editing wikipedia and inventing stories. In any case, it's not relevant to the article. Mardiste ( talk) 21:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I just did a google search and yeah it's there. But it doesn't change my opinion. Nobody's every proven a single thing. Ignore the trolls who are so sure about what they think they know. Mardiste ( talk) 21:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Veriss! It was in the Washington Post. Mardiste ( talk) 19:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC) http://www.slate.com/id/2266921/
I linked it because you asked me to link it. Please scroll up the page approximately two inches Mardiste ( talk) 19:26, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
This is not something invented by the Daily Mail. The rumors have been around for a while. My recollection is that Hutchison tried to push the idea in the 2010 primary but she wanted to do so without leaving her fingerprints on it, and it didn't have much impact. Well-sourced information on that point or on the impact of the rumors on his current campaign could be included in the daughter articles (each of those campaigns already has one), but I don't see anything there that's important enough for the main bio, unless it becomes much more prominent. JamesMLane t c 04:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't know why in the hell this article is locked, but the bit in there about his environmental positions related to climate change needs to say that he believes that "a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling in to their projects."
Here is the cite: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/rick-perry-climate-scientists-cooking-the-books_n_929876.html
This is a key accusation by this dude on a major policy issue and needs to be included in this (rather lame) entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.36.165 ( talk) 02:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
This section has been tagged as uncited since June. After reading it twice, it seems to go into detail about the political misfortunes of a justice but barely relates to Perry. My inclination is that it can be reduced to a short paragraph and moved to the general section about Perry's term as Gov. or removed completely. In what ever form it takes it of course needs to be sourced or removed soon. Veriss ( talk) 22:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
The "Governor" section has gotten huge. Do you think it's time to move it into a sub-article and replace with a summary? That seems to be standard practice for articles like this, such as Barack Obama or Sarah Palin. -- Coemgenus ( talk) 13:42, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
The Texas Observer is a very good source for what's going on in Texas regarding Mr Perry http://www.texasobserver.org/the-perry-trail
I propose that the following text be added to the article:
Perry has been accused of hypocrisy for investing between $5,000 and $10,000 of his own money in Movie Gallery, the country's largest distributor of pornography. The company had been under boycott by the American Family Association, a supporter of Perry's. [1]
71.182.251.33 ( talk) 08:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
12.^ "Rick Perry's Texas A&M Transcript". huffingtonpost.com. August 5, 2011. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html. Retrieved August 16, 2011. 13.^ Computational methodology at Talk:Rick_Perry#Rick_Perry.27s_G.P.A.
The Huffington Post is notorious for being an attack website much as Fox News for being Faux News.
What is this "computational methodology"? I thought that Wikipedia had some sort of "no independent synthesis or research" rule? If so, someone is using their own calculator to prove Perry is an idiot. He is an idiot but so are quite a few politicians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User123456789A ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
This had been in the article for about 3 years until removed without explanation on May 1st. I only noticed this after someone removed his name from List of Bilderberg participants with no explanation, and it clearly belongs there. Perry is not a typical attendee and if it isn't appropriate here it certainly isn't appropriate in other articles such as Gordon Campbell's, so this may affect other articles. It's become a subject of discussion again in the last few days, see [6]. Dougweller ( talk) 20:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
So you are saying that this guy's attendance at a PTA meeting or a town hall is the same as if he takes off to go to a secret meeting in Turkey of world leaders and three years later suddently becomes a viable presidential candidate with money flowing in like water and CNN preempting their Saturday broadcasting for the guy. Maybe so--but aren't you stretching it a bit. What other normal meetings do you think a Bilderberg attendance is equivalent too??? --the Austin ladies' club??? Yea. Right. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:22, 16 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
The guy attends a secret conference of world leaders and 3 years later is a viable presidential candidate with money flowing in and CNN preempting all its programing for him last Saturday. OK. Let's just not include anything that's not favorable to the guy. Or why not just ask Perry and see what he wants??? Truth in journalism??? OK. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
If you think the Bilderber meetings are not secret you better do some editing on your wikipedia article on the Bilderberg which says that the meetings are secret--ie press not allowed. If you believe this guy did not go to a secret meeting in Turkey attended by world political and business leaders three years ago maybe you should be still waiting for the Easter Bunny.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Don't bother me with the facts. My mind is made up too. Hey guys. Wake up and smell the roses. There are three blogs on this subject. How often does that happen?? Guess that shows you may be wrong about this being important--but I guess that depends on your agenda. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Why don't you add some more information to the paragraph on his vacation to Asia? That's probably more non-fringe and more important than his trip to a secret meeting of the world's political leaders in Turkey.
Yea. Right. There are 3 or 4 separate blogs on this started by 3 or 4 different people. Fringe theory? What theory? Do you know what a theory is?? Are you saying you don't believe the guy took the trip and that it's just a theory?? Or maybe you think its not significant. Maybe next time he goes to a secret meeting in Turkey with world political and economic leaders we can get him to give a press conference announcing that he plans to make some deals, some quid pro quos, and plans to violate the Logan Act. Or maybe you just have an agenda and would still have another series of objections to including this information?? You are on the fringe in censoring information that is true, fully documented, and people want to know about. This is so much BS. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 01:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Also notable and of significance--according to the Wikipedia list of attendees--Rick Perry is one of only two US governors who have ever been invited to attend a Bilderberg meeting. Also interesting that the only other governor invited was Mark Sanford who--according to Wikipedia--was also a leading candidate for the republican presidency in the 2012 election. Perhaps there are other governors who were invited by Bilderberg but Wikipedia censored this information too. Excluding this important trip from Perry's bio and--yet-- including a blurb about a vacation to Asia is blatant yellow journalism. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 16:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I would like to also mention, I just looked at the List of Bilderberg participants. Not only does the only other US governor on the list, Mark Sanford not have anything about him attending on his page, but the only pages that I found reliably sourced information about any US politician attending were Roger Altman (who's on the group's Steering Committee), Charles Douglas Jackson (who's a founder), and George Wildman Ball (who according to his article attended every meeting except one until died; much more than Perry's single visit). Many of the other people listed on the list have no reference at all in their articles (definitely a majority), including Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford, and John Edwards, to name a few. For the ones who do have that they attended, it is either unsourced or in a style mentioned by Noleander above. I think the fact that Sanford not having anything listed, him being the only other governor on the list of participants, is the style we should be looking at, as it's the closest match in terms of similar articles. Kessy628 ( talk) 17:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
- Your conclusion is a non-sequitur. The fact that Sanford's attendance at Bilderberg is not included in his bio is merely an indication to me that --although it should have been--it was not because it was censored in the past. Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford, and John Edwards should have the fact that they attended Bilderberg included on their history. So--rather than showing cause to not include the Bilderberg trip on Perry's bio--I believe you have turned up a number of past yellow journalistic censorships on the part of Wikipedia that have occurred (or possibly just omissions that should be cured). Interesting that John Edwards attended and he was a major Democratic presidential candidate in past years. Curiouser and curiouser. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 17:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)) — Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Bilderberg's only activity is its annual Conference. At the meetings, no resolutions are proposed, no votes taken, and no policy statements issued. Since 1954, fifty-eight conferences have been held. The names of the participants are made available to the press. Participants are chosen for their experience, their knowledge, and their standing; all participants attend Bilderberg in a private and not an official capacity." And it is extremely likely that a law that has not been enforced in two centuries is not valid - it hasn't been challenged because there's been no reason to challenge a law that never gets used, but a number of people seem to think it is unconstitutional. But that's beside the point, which is that no editor should take it upon themselves to suggest that anyone has violated any law. Dougweller ( talk) 19:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
From the Perry bio. Even the guys trip to the Caymen Islands is mentioned but I guess Bilderberg doesn't count-- "In June 2010, Perry went on a 12-day trade mission to East Asia. The security detail for the trip cost $129,000 in state money. The Texas Government attempted to block the media's scrutiny of the use of the funds as they contained information that could compromise the future security of the state's senior executive. A member of White's gubernatorial campaign stated that Perry should, "stop hiding the facts on fiscal issues like what he's charging taxpayers for travel". Perry's campaign countered that the trip led to greater exposure for Texas business opportunities in Asia.[74][75] In all, Perry made 23 foreign trips from 2004 to 2010, including a vacation on Grand Cayman" Curiouser and curiouser. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:27, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
No. Sounds like he paid for his vacation to the Caymen Islands--might has missed it but I don't see where it says the state paid. His PAC paid for his trip to the secret Bilderberg conference so it's not necessarily about funding and most of the money controversy was around the $129,000 plus bills for security (some of which may have been incurred on his junket to Bilderberg). ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 19:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I still have some reservations about this as I have long opposed mentioning the Bilderberg trip on the grounds of notability and WP:RS. I was also concerned that it would provide a beachhead for theorists to expand even a brief mention of it into something more. However, because an apparently intractable, single-purpose account has besieged this talk page for nearly a week over a single sentence, I am willing to find a compromise to clear the air and let us move on to more important issues.
I think User:Noleander's suggestion is a starting point. "An even better solution is to include it in a longer sentence that lists several events, such as "Perry has participated in several leadership forums, including AAA, BBB, CCC, Bilderberg, and DDD". That would be encyclopedic and should satisfy all concerns."
Please comment Support or Oppose and give your reasoning and if applicable, some suggested wording or attended events with reliable sources along with your position. Veriss ( talk) 19:39, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Note: I have requested expert assistance at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Talk:_Rick_Perry so we can get some outside eyes on this. Veriss ( talk) 20:43, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
The guy was invited--one of 120 atendees at a secret international meeting including top political, economic, and industry figures from all over the world convening to "foster cooperation" (according to wiki article on Bilderberg). Why conceal the fact that Perry attended and let your readers decide what "fostering cooperation" means-- if someone wants to accuse the guy of some conspiracy --so what??. Are we trying to control people's thoughts and imaginings here or include what is significant and noteworthy in peoples' bios?? I don't see anyone in any of the blogs proposing or putting forward the fostering of a "manchurian candidate" scenario here. That's an old movie and the cold war ended in case you hadn't heard. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 00:42, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
(Removed text which was a clear BLP violation) Dougweller ( talk) 19:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Copied from above--in this same section. Duh. I dunno. You tell me---
And I would add video of a channel 8 newscast from Austin and a show of Glenn Beck's. Do you doubt that the guy attended a secret international Bilderberg conference 3 years ago in Turkey with politician, ecnomists, and industrialists from all over the world to "foster international cooperation"???? Do you think it never happened??? Do you believe we ever landed on the moon??? Hello.... ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 18:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I have seen at support to include this from at least 4 or 5 others. So to say I am the only is a gross mischaracterization-again. Also have been 5 sections started on this and I only started one so you comment is coming out of your back end.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Thank you for the caution. And I would advise you to get real.( Sheilakissane ( talk) 21:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Goodbye. You need to go to the Wikipedia article on the US moon landing and contest it based on neutrality and the absence of reliable sources. A lot of people think that was faked on a Hollywood set. Maybe you can prove it( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
No. I hear you. Understand that some of my posts have been mischaracterized. I am not promoting the impuning of any quid pro quos or any conspiracy theories to the guy's attendance. No doubt but that the guy went and I believe it is important to include the fact that he was invited and did attend--120 attendees, the world leaders in politics, economics, and industry, trying to arrive at consensuses (don't have to say all that). I just believe to not report it is yellow journalism and do not understand some of the objections--just don't compute. Please understand that I am new to this just got hooked in because I looked at Perry's bio, tried to put it in, and had my info deleted. But not promoting the inclusion of any implications that the guy was necessarily doing any dirt. It should be reported and--as far as I am concerned--people can make up their own minds about it. I understand you guys don't editorialize--not advocating that. I will rest my case ( 72.222.135.204 ( talk) 00:32, 19 August 2011 (UTC)) Sorry. Forgot to sign it.( 72.222.135.204 ( talk) 00:34, 19 August 2011 (UTC))— Sheilakissane ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Sounds like truth in journalism on Wikipedia and the accurate recording of history are subject to majority rule. If Perry's invitation to Bilderberg is not important enough to include in a 500 plus word bio on the guy, maybe you should just eliminate it altogether from any inclusion anywhere. Since this is a secret meeting I'm sure the organizers will not be upset. ( Sheilakissane ( talk) 22:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC))