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I am creating this page to go in line with the WP:NPOV for biographies of living persons. I quote the following:
Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives.
I have made this section of the talk page because I have added the WP:NPOV tag to the main page, as suggested, not to do a "drive by tagging" and explain why I have done so. the Controversy Section on this very talk page has prior history over a long period of time that I have attempted to enforce this policy and guideline to no success. I hope by adding this tag I bring attention to the serious work that this biography of a living person is in need of. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 17:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Just for note: At this date and time, I was 98.208.209.78 above. I certify that and there is a note on my talk page. For future discussions please refer to me as my new account name. Sorry for the confusion. -- Lightbound ( talk) 00:25, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I've made a request at WT:WikiProject Star Trek for someone to help. I'm hoping that someone can expand on Berman's BLP information so that the "Criticism" section gets dwarfed, or that the extent of the criticism gets pared back. I do think the information contained in the "Criticism" is relevant but the amount that is there is ridiculous. KuyaBriBri Talk 22:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I have added a dispute to the notice board for biographies of living persons. This criticism section debate has been going on for months. I will continue to try and weed out the non notable sources and inject inline tags for disputes or questionable content. Like EEMIV mentioned above, if one reads these articles, the synthesis that LSD has been making is way off. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I blanked the music controversy section based on the following premises: (1) From a lexicographical perspective this former entry took up nearly half the page's content. (2) Ethically, if we are going to document criticisms, we should also document the extensive critical acclaims; which far out-weigh his apparent conflict with just one department of the production. Thus, this made the article biased and was borderline defamatory to someone who literally kept The Next Generation going even after Roddenberry was unable to continue work on it. (3) Wikipedia is not a sounding board for personal opinion or the documentation of quarrels between people having a debate about opinion. If this controversy had raised legal problems, arbitration, or significant exchanges or losses of property or any substance of value besides ego, then it should be left out. This is a truism for all of Wiki. (4) The controversy was documented in a very unilateral fashion. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 21:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Once again I am forced to delete the controversy section. None of my prior statements were addressed and someone has just come in and thrown it all back in with different wording. This article is about Rick Berman, NOT a treatise on his performance with Star Trek. If this were several pages long and had many entries regarding the life and other things related to Mr. Berman, then it would, perhaps, be acceptable. As it stands, nearly half this man's article is critcism. That is just unacceptabe. Additionally, giving sources for opinion does not make them FACT and NEUTRAL. This article needs to remain neutral and report on Rick Berman as a whole. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 17:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Considering the number of alleged Star Trek experts on this site, who seem to delight in entering the details of every variant of cardboard alien, I can't believe that someone who ranks in the top two or three influential people of the Star Trek franchise has such a terrible stubby entry, in which the only meaningful info is pretty much wrong!
Berman is better known as a producer than a writer, being executive producer for most of the series since TNG, and for most of the TNG movies.
I would modify this, but I have taken a Wikivow never to add anything to do with Star Trek on Wikipedia. A two-minute visit to Google will turn up lots of information on him. DJ Clayworth 15:58, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I thought the Trek fans hated Berman and Braga because of Voyage and Enterprise not because of DS9, which Berman had almost no influence in.
Indeed. Berman had little to do with DS9. Infact, he told Ira Behr (The head honcho for DS9) that he wanted the Dominion War to last only four episodes, instead of the several years it did last.-- Kross 06:20, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
He hated DS9. He argued several times with Ira about what to do in specific episodes. Like Nog losing his legs or how Jadzia died. He then took the idea of The Dominion war and turned it into the Xindi arc. Hypocrite. --
Furious Stormrage
While I'm a staunch Star Trek fan who disapproves of many of Berman's decisions regarding the franchise, the last three paragraphs of the article were _definately_ NPOV. I toned them down to reasonable for Wikipedia without any sources, but industry quotes from prominent sci fi publications would be nice. I would the entire criticisms section be removed due to lack of reputable citations, but there are enough fan citations that it is (in my mind) worthwhile to keep it in. (Oh, yeah, I also seperated it into a full "criticisms" subsection) -- David Souther ( talk) 03:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), the title of an article should "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". Since Berman is known almost exclusively as "Rick Berman", I believe that the article should revert to this title.
Acegikmo1 00:12, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Richard Keith Berman → Rick Berman
Though I haven't conducted any studies, I would imagine that Rick Berman of Star Trek fame is far more well known than Rick B. Berman, Washington lobbyist (who doesn't even have an article). I'd like to move Richard Keith Berman to Rick Berman, with a note at the top saying If you are looking for the Washington lobbyist, see Rick B. Berman. No one knows Rick Berman as "Richard Keith Berman" either. - Branddobbe 22:49, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
Moved - violet/riga (t) 20:47, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The Controversy section is rather vague. Statements like "The quality of Voyager declined sharply…" and "Enterprise was considered to be a disaster…" need sources. Something like "many/most fans believed…" is not entirely adequate, either. There should be some kind of cited source referenced. - User:rasd
Please follow Wikipedia policies regarding WP:V and WP:RS. — Viriditas | Talk 05:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
If people can't come up with sources to back up criticism of Berman, then it shouldn't be mentioned here. And please if you are going to add sources, postings to discussion forums aren't suitable. AlistairMcMillan 23:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
google "enterprise continuity b&b" you will get enough sources to convince you of the trek communities unhappiness with both rick berman and brannon braga 75.14.223.20 10:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I am sorry but I also have to agree here you must site the source. Since critism of someone is potentaly libelous you must site a repatable source (at least a newspaper article). This procedure is in place to protect Wikipedia from a lawsuit so please respect it. Andrew D White 19:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
There have been episodes in Star Trek that dealt with homosexuality. From our very own Wikipedia:
In the fourth season episode Rejoined, Jadzia encounters Lenara Kahn, who had been the wife of Torias Dax as a previous host (Nilani Kahn). Because Torias died suddenly, Dax's relationship with Kahn's previous host was never resolved, and the two struggle in the episode with their feelings towards one another. This is complicated by a taboo in Trill culture against romantic relationships with partners of previous hosts. This episode features one of the first televised kisses between two female characters.
I know there are others out there, what with over a decade of new gen Star Trek. It claims it was one of the first televised kisses period. So much for "avoiding" homosexuality. That busts that case wide open. These criticisms are just opinions, seated in tabloids, interviews, and such.-- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I think it should just be deleted. Any other opinions? -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've several times reverted edits by User:193.85.224.111 for a few reasons; outlining here in case it decides to try to address them:
Additionally, I restored general grammar, MOS and other small edits undone when the anon. restored its changes. Yes, 193.85.224.111, I've made many edits to this article (although not the "hundreds" you think. If your notion of meaningful contributions to the article continues to include citations to unreliable fan sites and unsubstantiated generalizations in violation of the biographies of living people policy, then by all means, " give up". This is certainly an imperfect article, but improvements must actually be improvements in line with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. -- EEMIV ( talk) 20:54, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
User EEMIV (either an obsessive Star Trek fan or Rick Berman's agent, likely the former) appears to have complete control of this article making hundreds of entries and altering anyone else's changes (simpkly examine the history log). There is simply no point in anyone attempting to edit it. It is a shame that Wikipedia doesn't have ways to prevent this as this article can no longer be considered neutral, but rather a personal blog entry. Alas, the world of Star Trek - it is easy to see why most Wikipedians stay well clear of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.85.224.111 ( talk) 21:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
After nearly a year of waiting, and my previous major edits, I return to this article and see it is still in sorry shape. Soon, I will attempt to make some serious edits to it. I would like to call on any other watching editors to collaborate with me here, in this sub-section, on some ideas on how we should proceed. Let us do this together, and in agreement, before any edit wars rehash from my attempts to document this biography properly. This guy isn't Star Trek, yet if you came to this article, having no idea who he was, you would think he was all Star Trek, never did anything else, and is just some Star Trek punching bag all the angry nerds of the world come to harass on some dark internet page of the Wikipedia. Well I have come to put some light into this article and I think others should too. Here are some of my suggestions:
Thanks in advance to anyone who cooperates in getting this article done right! Cheers. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 22:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Please see the startrek talk page for the merger suggestion. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Do not remove tags and assume the discussion is closed. Not a single change was made to the Berman article, yet. The discussion regarding the changes to the Berman article's huge Star Trek history section are going on at: Talk:Star_Trek#Merger_of_Rick_Berman_Star_Trek_Details_Into_History_of_Star_Trek. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 02:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I bookmarked this in October, and haven't done anything with it. Maybe someone else who keeps an eye on this article can pull some useful information. I know this article is too-heavily weighted toward Star Trek-related material, but it's all third-person commentary without anything actually from Berman. -- EEMIV ( talk) 23:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:27, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm not really into editing Wikipedia anymore, as the neutrality of the site has been compromised for over a decade now. But as I read this article, this really jumped out at me as ridiculous:
"In recent years, staff and cast have cited his participation over the years in removing/minimizing LGBT themes from multiple Star Trek series.[10]"
On review, the linked source does not support this inflammatory claim. An examination of Wikipedia's guidelines to see if something has changed in the last ten years suggests that things like this should not be tolerated, even in WP's current state.
From what I understand, even by the current WP standards, the quoted line above (it's from the Star Trek section) is poorly sourced, overly general, not at all neutral, and generally out of place for the section based on WP guidelines. The one source cited does not substantiate the claim, is not Verifiable, and quotes a single self-admittedly disgruntled former staff member referencing a single incident where an LGB theme was censored without clear or verifiable attribution to Berman as the decision-maker for that censorship. That is nowhere near substantiating the scope of the defamatory claim made.
That is not a Reliable source per WP guidelines. As this is a Biography of a Living Person (read that section too), such claims require greater scrutiny and sourcing than the transcript of an interview with a disgruntled former employee can afford.
I think the quote should be removed entirely. The citation is trash. This is why people don't take WP seriously anymore, because you've got Cancel Culture warriors using WP as a platform to slander any possible ideological opposition to their far-left extremism. Larry Sanger is 100% right about this place.
And no, I'm not making an account again. I don't want to be tempted to waste more time here than I already have. I am not going to edit it or remove it either since WP's classist approach to anonymous IP editing will gaurantee that it gets reverted nearly instantly. So maybe one of Wikipedians will see this and do the right thing. 47.197.37.230 ( talk) 21:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
In the absence of any constructive discussion and in consideration of the many violations of WP's (purported) editorial standards as identified previously, I have made the edit I proposed above. Let's see how long it takes one of the Cancel Cult members to revert it. I know rumors are sufficient evidence for them to publicly defame people on WP... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
47.197.37.230 (
talk) 06:19, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am here to provide a third opinion, if it is still needed. The sources for the claim are two scholarly articles with two and three citations respectively. WP:SCHOLARSHIP tells us to prefer secondary sources (literature reviews, textbooks, etc.). If we do not have them, I would say removal is correct. The claim can be readded when newspaper articles or similar are published on the matter. I am not an expert on Star Trek publications and what is considered a good source on the particular matter, so I can't help more Ffaffff ( talk) 21:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
My pal, the great Andy Mangels, was interviewed by AfterElton back in 2006 and he had this to say about Berman, “I have never met Rick Berman, and he has never expressed any specific attitudes directly to me. That said, not one single actor, staff member, or Paramount employee has ever once defended him from charges of homophobia, and many have accused him of it.
"Berman was ultimately responsible for killing almost every pitch for gay characters, and in interviews, was mealy-mouthed and waffling about the need for GLBT representation. At the very least, he was gutless and didn't care about GLBT representation. From the information and evidence I've seen, heard, and read, I believe that Berman is the reason we never saw gays on Star Trek I shed no tears that he's gone, except that he did his best to ruin the franchise on his way out.”
Unfortunately, at that time, the Star Trek franchise was being executive produced by Rick Berman, who is now known to have been a "raging homophobe" at the time, regularly shooting down ideas from writers to include LGBTQ+ content on the show as original series creator Gene Roddenberry had wanted.
In short, it seems Star Trek franchise steward Rick Berman, who ran four different Trek series over eighteen years, was largely responsible for all hints of gayness and gender non-conformity getting banned. Would the franchise have received angry pushback from certain segments of the audience if they had? Without a doubt. But so did the original series for having an interracial kiss, and a multi-ethnic crew. And they did it anyway.
47.197.37.230 ( talk) 19:51, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
Since the early 2000's, several writers of Star Trek material, such as David Gerrold [1] [2] and Andy Mangels, [3] have criticized Berman's participation in removing and minimizing LGBT themes from multiple Star Trek series, including The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. [4] Berman has responded by saying that he took full responsibility for the lack of such characters and that he had been working with other producers on including gay characters, [5] telling Kate Mulgrew that such a character would be included "in due time", though no such characters would be included during Berman's time as producer. [6]
Not really an expert on this stuff but is there a reason his conflict with Terry Farrel and accusations of sexism aren't in the article at all? It's fairly well known and was mentioned in the recent-ish DS9 documentry What We Left Behind as well as The 50-Year Mission, but doesn't appear at all in here. Is it just a lack of accepted news sources on the subject? 80.115.181.175 ( talk) 19:32, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Rick Berman article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It is requested that a photograph be
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improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I am creating this page to go in line with the WP:NPOV for biographies of living persons. I quote the following:
Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives.
I have made this section of the talk page because I have added the WP:NPOV tag to the main page, as suggested, not to do a "drive by tagging" and explain why I have done so. the Controversy Section on this very talk page has prior history over a long period of time that I have attempted to enforce this policy and guideline to no success. I hope by adding this tag I bring attention to the serious work that this biography of a living person is in need of. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 17:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Just for note: At this date and time, I was 98.208.209.78 above. I certify that and there is a note on my talk page. For future discussions please refer to me as my new account name. Sorry for the confusion. -- Lightbound ( talk) 00:25, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I've made a request at WT:WikiProject Star Trek for someone to help. I'm hoping that someone can expand on Berman's BLP information so that the "Criticism" section gets dwarfed, or that the extent of the criticism gets pared back. I do think the information contained in the "Criticism" is relevant but the amount that is there is ridiculous. KuyaBriBri Talk 22:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I have added a dispute to the notice board for biographies of living persons. This criticism section debate has been going on for months. I will continue to try and weed out the non notable sources and inject inline tags for disputes or questionable content. Like EEMIV mentioned above, if one reads these articles, the synthesis that LSD has been making is way off. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I blanked the music controversy section based on the following premises: (1) From a lexicographical perspective this former entry took up nearly half the page's content. (2) Ethically, if we are going to document criticisms, we should also document the extensive critical acclaims; which far out-weigh his apparent conflict with just one department of the production. Thus, this made the article biased and was borderline defamatory to someone who literally kept The Next Generation going even after Roddenberry was unable to continue work on it. (3) Wikipedia is not a sounding board for personal opinion or the documentation of quarrels between people having a debate about opinion. If this controversy had raised legal problems, arbitration, or significant exchanges or losses of property or any substance of value besides ego, then it should be left out. This is a truism for all of Wiki. (4) The controversy was documented in a very unilateral fashion. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 21:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Once again I am forced to delete the controversy section. None of my prior statements were addressed and someone has just come in and thrown it all back in with different wording. This article is about Rick Berman, NOT a treatise on his performance with Star Trek. If this were several pages long and had many entries regarding the life and other things related to Mr. Berman, then it would, perhaps, be acceptable. As it stands, nearly half this man's article is critcism. That is just unacceptabe. Additionally, giving sources for opinion does not make them FACT and NEUTRAL. This article needs to remain neutral and report on Rick Berman as a whole. -- 98.208.209.78 ( talk) 17:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Considering the number of alleged Star Trek experts on this site, who seem to delight in entering the details of every variant of cardboard alien, I can't believe that someone who ranks in the top two or three influential people of the Star Trek franchise has such a terrible stubby entry, in which the only meaningful info is pretty much wrong!
Berman is better known as a producer than a writer, being executive producer for most of the series since TNG, and for most of the TNG movies.
I would modify this, but I have taken a Wikivow never to add anything to do with Star Trek on Wikipedia. A two-minute visit to Google will turn up lots of information on him. DJ Clayworth 15:58, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I thought the Trek fans hated Berman and Braga because of Voyage and Enterprise not because of DS9, which Berman had almost no influence in.
Indeed. Berman had little to do with DS9. Infact, he told Ira Behr (The head honcho for DS9) that he wanted the Dominion War to last only four episodes, instead of the several years it did last.-- Kross 06:20, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
He hated DS9. He argued several times with Ira about what to do in specific episodes. Like Nog losing his legs or how Jadzia died. He then took the idea of The Dominion war and turned it into the Xindi arc. Hypocrite. --
Furious Stormrage
While I'm a staunch Star Trek fan who disapproves of many of Berman's decisions regarding the franchise, the last three paragraphs of the article were _definately_ NPOV. I toned them down to reasonable for Wikipedia without any sources, but industry quotes from prominent sci fi publications would be nice. I would the entire criticisms section be removed due to lack of reputable citations, but there are enough fan citations that it is (in my mind) worthwhile to keep it in. (Oh, yeah, I also seperated it into a full "criticisms" subsection) -- David Souther ( talk) 03:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), the title of an article should "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". Since Berman is known almost exclusively as "Rick Berman", I believe that the article should revert to this title.
Acegikmo1 00:12, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Richard Keith Berman → Rick Berman
Though I haven't conducted any studies, I would imagine that Rick Berman of Star Trek fame is far more well known than Rick B. Berman, Washington lobbyist (who doesn't even have an article). I'd like to move Richard Keith Berman to Rick Berman, with a note at the top saying If you are looking for the Washington lobbyist, see Rick B. Berman. No one knows Rick Berman as "Richard Keith Berman" either. - Branddobbe 22:49, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
Moved - violet/riga (t) 20:47, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The Controversy section is rather vague. Statements like "The quality of Voyager declined sharply…" and "Enterprise was considered to be a disaster…" need sources. Something like "many/most fans believed…" is not entirely adequate, either. There should be some kind of cited source referenced. - User:rasd
Please follow Wikipedia policies regarding WP:V and WP:RS. — Viriditas | Talk 05:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
If people can't come up with sources to back up criticism of Berman, then it shouldn't be mentioned here. And please if you are going to add sources, postings to discussion forums aren't suitable. AlistairMcMillan 23:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
google "enterprise continuity b&b" you will get enough sources to convince you of the trek communities unhappiness with both rick berman and brannon braga 75.14.223.20 10:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I am sorry but I also have to agree here you must site the source. Since critism of someone is potentaly libelous you must site a repatable source (at least a newspaper article). This procedure is in place to protect Wikipedia from a lawsuit so please respect it. Andrew D White 19:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
There have been episodes in Star Trek that dealt with homosexuality. From our very own Wikipedia:
In the fourth season episode Rejoined, Jadzia encounters Lenara Kahn, who had been the wife of Torias Dax as a previous host (Nilani Kahn). Because Torias died suddenly, Dax's relationship with Kahn's previous host was never resolved, and the two struggle in the episode with their feelings towards one another. This is complicated by a taboo in Trill culture against romantic relationships with partners of previous hosts. This episode features one of the first televised kisses between two female characters.
I know there are others out there, what with over a decade of new gen Star Trek. It claims it was one of the first televised kisses period. So much for "avoiding" homosexuality. That busts that case wide open. These criticisms are just opinions, seated in tabloids, interviews, and such.-- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I think it should just be deleted. Any other opinions? -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've several times reverted edits by User:193.85.224.111 for a few reasons; outlining here in case it decides to try to address them:
Additionally, I restored general grammar, MOS and other small edits undone when the anon. restored its changes. Yes, 193.85.224.111, I've made many edits to this article (although not the "hundreds" you think. If your notion of meaningful contributions to the article continues to include citations to unreliable fan sites and unsubstantiated generalizations in violation of the biographies of living people policy, then by all means, " give up". This is certainly an imperfect article, but improvements must actually be improvements in line with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. -- EEMIV ( talk) 20:54, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
User EEMIV (either an obsessive Star Trek fan or Rick Berman's agent, likely the former) appears to have complete control of this article making hundreds of entries and altering anyone else's changes (simpkly examine the history log). There is simply no point in anyone attempting to edit it. It is a shame that Wikipedia doesn't have ways to prevent this as this article can no longer be considered neutral, but rather a personal blog entry. Alas, the world of Star Trek - it is easy to see why most Wikipedians stay well clear of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.85.224.111 ( talk) 21:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
After nearly a year of waiting, and my previous major edits, I return to this article and see it is still in sorry shape. Soon, I will attempt to make some serious edits to it. I would like to call on any other watching editors to collaborate with me here, in this sub-section, on some ideas on how we should proceed. Let us do this together, and in agreement, before any edit wars rehash from my attempts to document this biography properly. This guy isn't Star Trek, yet if you came to this article, having no idea who he was, you would think he was all Star Trek, never did anything else, and is just some Star Trek punching bag all the angry nerds of the world come to harass on some dark internet page of the Wikipedia. Well I have come to put some light into this article and I think others should too. Here are some of my suggestions:
Thanks in advance to anyone who cooperates in getting this article done right! Cheers. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 22:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Please see the startrek talk page for the merger suggestion. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 23:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Do not remove tags and assume the discussion is closed. Not a single change was made to the Berman article, yet. The discussion regarding the changes to the Berman article's huge Star Trek history section are going on at: Talk:Star_Trek#Merger_of_Rick_Berman_Star_Trek_Details_Into_History_of_Star_Trek. -- ☯Lightbound☯ talk 02:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I bookmarked this in October, and haven't done anything with it. Maybe someone else who keeps an eye on this article can pull some useful information. I know this article is too-heavily weighted toward Star Trek-related material, but it's all third-person commentary without anything actually from Berman. -- EEMIV ( talk) 23:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Rick Berman. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:27, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm not really into editing Wikipedia anymore, as the neutrality of the site has been compromised for over a decade now. But as I read this article, this really jumped out at me as ridiculous:
"In recent years, staff and cast have cited his participation over the years in removing/minimizing LGBT themes from multiple Star Trek series.[10]"
On review, the linked source does not support this inflammatory claim. An examination of Wikipedia's guidelines to see if something has changed in the last ten years suggests that things like this should not be tolerated, even in WP's current state.
From what I understand, even by the current WP standards, the quoted line above (it's from the Star Trek section) is poorly sourced, overly general, not at all neutral, and generally out of place for the section based on WP guidelines. The one source cited does not substantiate the claim, is not Verifiable, and quotes a single self-admittedly disgruntled former staff member referencing a single incident where an LGB theme was censored without clear or verifiable attribution to Berman as the decision-maker for that censorship. That is nowhere near substantiating the scope of the defamatory claim made.
That is not a Reliable source per WP guidelines. As this is a Biography of a Living Person (read that section too), such claims require greater scrutiny and sourcing than the transcript of an interview with a disgruntled former employee can afford.
I think the quote should be removed entirely. The citation is trash. This is why people don't take WP seriously anymore, because you've got Cancel Culture warriors using WP as a platform to slander any possible ideological opposition to their far-left extremism. Larry Sanger is 100% right about this place.
And no, I'm not making an account again. I don't want to be tempted to waste more time here than I already have. I am not going to edit it or remove it either since WP's classist approach to anonymous IP editing will gaurantee that it gets reverted nearly instantly. So maybe one of Wikipedians will see this and do the right thing. 47.197.37.230 ( talk) 21:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
In the absence of any constructive discussion and in consideration of the many violations of WP's (purported) editorial standards as identified previously, I have made the edit I proposed above. Let's see how long it takes one of the Cancel Cult members to revert it. I know rumors are sufficient evidence for them to publicly defame people on WP... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
47.197.37.230 (
talk) 06:19, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am here to provide a third opinion, if it is still needed. The sources for the claim are two scholarly articles with two and three citations respectively. WP:SCHOLARSHIP tells us to prefer secondary sources (literature reviews, textbooks, etc.). If we do not have them, I would say removal is correct. The claim can be readded when newspaper articles or similar are published on the matter. I am not an expert on Star Trek publications and what is considered a good source on the particular matter, so I can't help more Ffaffff ( talk) 21:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
My pal, the great Andy Mangels, was interviewed by AfterElton back in 2006 and he had this to say about Berman, “I have never met Rick Berman, and he has never expressed any specific attitudes directly to me. That said, not one single actor, staff member, or Paramount employee has ever once defended him from charges of homophobia, and many have accused him of it.
"Berman was ultimately responsible for killing almost every pitch for gay characters, and in interviews, was mealy-mouthed and waffling about the need for GLBT representation. At the very least, he was gutless and didn't care about GLBT representation. From the information and evidence I've seen, heard, and read, I believe that Berman is the reason we never saw gays on Star Trek I shed no tears that he's gone, except that he did his best to ruin the franchise on his way out.”
Unfortunately, at that time, the Star Trek franchise was being executive produced by Rick Berman, who is now known to have been a "raging homophobe" at the time, regularly shooting down ideas from writers to include LGBTQ+ content on the show as original series creator Gene Roddenberry had wanted.
In short, it seems Star Trek franchise steward Rick Berman, who ran four different Trek series over eighteen years, was largely responsible for all hints of gayness and gender non-conformity getting banned. Would the franchise have received angry pushback from certain segments of the audience if they had? Without a doubt. But so did the original series for having an interracial kiss, and a multi-ethnic crew. And they did it anyway.
47.197.37.230 ( talk) 19:51, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
Since the early 2000's, several writers of Star Trek material, such as David Gerrold [1] [2] and Andy Mangels, [3] have criticized Berman's participation in removing and minimizing LGBT themes from multiple Star Trek series, including The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. [4] Berman has responded by saying that he took full responsibility for the lack of such characters and that he had been working with other producers on including gay characters, [5] telling Kate Mulgrew that such a character would be included "in due time", though no such characters would be included during Berman's time as producer. [6]
Not really an expert on this stuff but is there a reason his conflict with Terry Farrel and accusations of sexism aren't in the article at all? It's fairly well known and was mentioned in the recent-ish DS9 documentry What We Left Behind as well as The 50-Year Mission, but doesn't appear at all in here. Is it just a lack of accepted news sources on the subject? 80.115.181.175 ( talk) 19:32, 14 June 2023 (UTC)