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Reviewer: Wasted Time R ( talk · contribs) 19:47, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Re writing and MoS issues:
The lede should state briefly that despite the motel's name, not all the cabooses in it are in fact red. This change over time is covered later in the text – The exteriors of each caboose were painted ... – but it would be useful to state up front.
originally named the Red Caboose Lodge – when did the name switch?
The "History" section would better be called "Origin", as there are later sections which give subsequent history of the motel and its operation.
Denlinger, who became a "tourism industry legend", – according to whom? A tourist official, a newspaper reporter, himself?
... the railroad's "rolling stock graveyard" in ... – I don't think the quotes are needed here, or if they are, just around 'graveyard'.
Note 'a' should be brought up into the article text itself, since it represents yet a third variant of the origin story.
At some time in 1969 prior to the unexpected January 4 phone call, ... – this wording presupposes that the first of the original stories is the true one. Better would be to say something like "Regardless of how the idea came about, Denlinger searched for a property ..."
A railroad post office car and baggage car and 19 additional cabooses were added in the 1980s. ... The town granted permission to add eight cabooses in 1984, ... – the sequencing here isn't clear. Are the 19 new cabooses before, after, or part of the 8 cabooses?
The new owners, who had not previously been in the hospitality industry, ... – the article gives the name of all the previous owners, why not these current ones?
Re sourcing issues:
The motel has been called "world famous" – according to whom? The source is a book about car culture, not trains? That's a little strange. And if this place is so famous, why did no Wikipedia article about it exist until July 2020?
fn 13 says it is from the Pittsburgh Press, but the clipping is actually from the Sunday News in Lancaster.
A large number of the sources are from Lancaster newspapers. They are okay to use, but the level of interest in the subject would be indicated if other newspapers wrote about the motel. Are there stories available in Philadelphia papers, or Harrisburg, or Scranton, or ones in Delaware or Maryland?
Re level of coverage:
Some of the lengthy descriptions, such as the derailing problems when the cabooses were first being delivered, seem more oriented towards train buffs than general readers. Well, I guess that's true of Wikipedia transportation articles in general.
I think the "Incidents" section is undue weight as it stands. Any facility of this size that has been in business for 50 years is going to have had a fire or a leak or a sewer problem or an electrical problem, etc during that time. As it stands, this must be the longest description of any septic system struggle in all of Wikipedia. I notice that the all the sources for it are Lancaster newspaper ones. Local papers tend to cover some local stories exhaustively, but did any papers outside the area cover this?
Instead, I think that these incidents should be merged in with the "Ownership" section to form a "Later history" section. Because it sounds like the 2002 septic failure is part of what led to the 2003 sale and perhaps the bankruptcy? That would make it relevant to the history of the motel. But otherwise there is too much detail here. And there's nothing that indicates that the two fires were of any real significance.
The "Media coverage" section seems unconnected to anything else. When did these media features appear, early after the motel opened or steadily throughout its existence? I would try to integrate this section into a "Later history" section as well, or maybe add it at the end of the "Design and Operation" section.
From a business perspective, there is a gap in the narrative. The motel is apparently popular when it first opens in 1970 and stays popular enough that it expanded during the mid-1980s. What happens after that? Was it still in good shape when Denlinger sold it in 1993? Then by the early 2000s it is in trouble - was that solely because of the septic issues, or had it become less popular for people to stay at? Do any sources say what the occupancy/vacancy rates were during any of these periods?
I gather from sites like this one that there are other hotels around the world that are converted from rail carriages. Do any of them pre-date the Red Caboose Lodge? Or is it the other way around?
Re images:
There is an image on Commons from 1996 – Image:Strasburg - Pennsylvania Railroad railway cars.jpg – that shows the Red Caboose Lodge (see the 'RCL' painted on them) from when all of the cabooses were indeed red. That image should be included in the article somewhere.
Anyway, that's the review, I am placing the nomination on hold. Wasted Time R ( talk) 16:31, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
To avoid OR, I'd suggest reworking the first few paragraphs of the "Origin" section roughly as follows: Red Caboose Lodge incorporated in 1967 by Denlinger—Denlinger an entrepreneur etc.—Bought cabooses in 1969—"Accounts differ on the circumstances of Denlinger's purchase"—Narrate the 1970 newspaper account, then the "official" account from the motel—Move on to recounting how the cabooses were delivered. We don't have to make a statement in Wikivoice as to whether any of these in particular are accurate or inaccurate, just present the facts and let the reader draw their own inferences about how to reconcile the accounts. Choess ( talk) 18:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Red Caboose Motel has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: April 15, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | A fact from Red Caboose Motel appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 12 September 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Wasted Time R ( talk · contribs) 19:47, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Re writing and MoS issues:
The lede should state briefly that despite the motel's name, not all the cabooses in it are in fact red. This change over time is covered later in the text – The exteriors of each caboose were painted ... – but it would be useful to state up front.
originally named the Red Caboose Lodge – when did the name switch?
The "History" section would better be called "Origin", as there are later sections which give subsequent history of the motel and its operation.
Denlinger, who became a "tourism industry legend", – according to whom? A tourist official, a newspaper reporter, himself?
... the railroad's "rolling stock graveyard" in ... – I don't think the quotes are needed here, or if they are, just around 'graveyard'.
Note 'a' should be brought up into the article text itself, since it represents yet a third variant of the origin story.
At some time in 1969 prior to the unexpected January 4 phone call, ... – this wording presupposes that the first of the original stories is the true one. Better would be to say something like "Regardless of how the idea came about, Denlinger searched for a property ..."
A railroad post office car and baggage car and 19 additional cabooses were added in the 1980s. ... The town granted permission to add eight cabooses in 1984, ... – the sequencing here isn't clear. Are the 19 new cabooses before, after, or part of the 8 cabooses?
The new owners, who had not previously been in the hospitality industry, ... – the article gives the name of all the previous owners, why not these current ones?
Re sourcing issues:
The motel has been called "world famous" – according to whom? The source is a book about car culture, not trains? That's a little strange. And if this place is so famous, why did no Wikipedia article about it exist until July 2020?
fn 13 says it is from the Pittsburgh Press, but the clipping is actually from the Sunday News in Lancaster.
A large number of the sources are from Lancaster newspapers. They are okay to use, but the level of interest in the subject would be indicated if other newspapers wrote about the motel. Are there stories available in Philadelphia papers, or Harrisburg, or Scranton, or ones in Delaware or Maryland?
Re level of coverage:
Some of the lengthy descriptions, such as the derailing problems when the cabooses were first being delivered, seem more oriented towards train buffs than general readers. Well, I guess that's true of Wikipedia transportation articles in general.
I think the "Incidents" section is undue weight as it stands. Any facility of this size that has been in business for 50 years is going to have had a fire or a leak or a sewer problem or an electrical problem, etc during that time. As it stands, this must be the longest description of any septic system struggle in all of Wikipedia. I notice that the all the sources for it are Lancaster newspaper ones. Local papers tend to cover some local stories exhaustively, but did any papers outside the area cover this?
Instead, I think that these incidents should be merged in with the "Ownership" section to form a "Later history" section. Because it sounds like the 2002 septic failure is part of what led to the 2003 sale and perhaps the bankruptcy? That would make it relevant to the history of the motel. But otherwise there is too much detail here. And there's nothing that indicates that the two fires were of any real significance.
The "Media coverage" section seems unconnected to anything else. When did these media features appear, early after the motel opened or steadily throughout its existence? I would try to integrate this section into a "Later history" section as well, or maybe add it at the end of the "Design and Operation" section.
From a business perspective, there is a gap in the narrative. The motel is apparently popular when it first opens in 1970 and stays popular enough that it expanded during the mid-1980s. What happens after that? Was it still in good shape when Denlinger sold it in 1993? Then by the early 2000s it is in trouble - was that solely because of the septic issues, or had it become less popular for people to stay at? Do any sources say what the occupancy/vacancy rates were during any of these periods?
I gather from sites like this one that there are other hotels around the world that are converted from rail carriages. Do any of them pre-date the Red Caboose Lodge? Or is it the other way around?
Re images:
There is an image on Commons from 1996 – Image:Strasburg - Pennsylvania Railroad railway cars.jpg – that shows the Red Caboose Lodge (see the 'RCL' painted on them) from when all of the cabooses were indeed red. That image should be included in the article somewhere.
Anyway, that's the review, I am placing the nomination on hold. Wasted Time R ( talk) 16:31, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
To avoid OR, I'd suggest reworking the first few paragraphs of the "Origin" section roughly as follows: Red Caboose Lodge incorporated in 1967 by Denlinger—Denlinger an entrepreneur etc.—Bought cabooses in 1969—"Accounts differ on the circumstances of Denlinger's purchase"—Narrate the 1970 newspaper account, then the "official" account from the motel—Move on to recounting how the cabooses were delivered. We don't have to make a statement in Wikivoice as to whether any of these in particular are accurate or inaccurate, just present the facts and let the reader draw their own inferences about how to reconcile the accounts. Choess ( talk) 18:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)