This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Same-sex marriage in Brazil article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | A news item involving Same-sex marriage in Brazil was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 9 May 2011. | ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
According to this article, same-sex marriage was authorized in Rio Grande do Sul: http://www.databufpb.com.br/noticia-290-saiba-direito-tribunal-de-justica-do-rio-grande-do-sul-autoriza-casamento-civil-homoafetivo.html
Can somebody look into it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco76bor ( talk • contribs) 01:13, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
CNJ approves resolution urging notary celebrating gay marriage nationwide
Does this mean that we can update the same-sex unions in Brazil page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.196.151 ( talk) 16:24, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
So what?Gay marriage is legal as of today in Brazil.Whether or not it can be challenged says nothing on the validity of the law.This was also the case in Spain where it was legal from 2005 and was challenged in the Supreme Court last year but was ultimately upheld.Brazil should immediately enter the list.
There should be a new page Same Sex Marriage in Brazil MKleid ( talk) 22:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree, the situation is similar to Spain. Add it to the map. -- Smart ( talk) 01:38, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Why has the header column removed Brazil from the list of countries where same-sex marriage is legal nationwide? Are we waiting for the official ruling to be released? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.83.33.110 ( talk) 06:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, it is not a thing of bishops. It was always standard Brazilian usage to regard the formal name of marriage as "união civil" (the first source I added says "a boa e velha união civil"). It was this way at least since the late 50s; I saw both of my grandmothers' certificates, and there it said they were in the regime of união civil, the maximum possible in Brazil. It changes the "estado civil" of the person from solteir@ (single) to casad@ (married). After the união civil ends, living persons may become divorciad@s (divorced) or viúv@s (widow).
I may be wrong, but as far as I know, Brazilian religious marriage is a completely separated institution, and of responsability of the independent religious affiliations Brazilians may have (I never heard of statistics about that – unlike Australia, where about 30% of marriages are known to be enshrined by a religious ritual –, btw).* The official religion of most of the 19th century and before, Roman Catholicism, was entirely disconnected from the government in the coup that installed the first Republic, but at this time other religions were still very minoritary and connected mostly to European Brazilian, Indigenous Brazilian and Afro-Brazilian communities, whose at times de facto and at others official governmental policy toward was assimilation (add Christian sectarianism, institutionalized ethnocentrism/racism and white privilege to the situation of the latter ones), and to a few urban intellectuals (you know I mean Spiritism) that were repressed by the social situation of that time. It is a history different from most Anglosphere countries, who didn't divorce so harshly their religious elements from their governemnts, such as England that still has an official church.
So, our bishops wouldn't have a say in our SE-CU-LAR definition of marriage, enshrined by the State with a word that isn't even the same used for the Christian rite, doesn't matter how much they want. It is the journalists that clearly referred to the Court decision over the fate of the uniões civis, the bishops just pitied that the government gives same-sex unions the same legal standing of families (what was already done since 2011) into marriage (nationwide since 2013) inside the same kind of institution (inb4 "zOMG hellish equaliteh, zeh ghey shuldn b regarded as doin' the same of us sane decent citizens into godly srs bzns!11!!1! we will fade from existence as society, civilization, race from such devilish works of you heretic atheists!11!!1! dats the devil behind this!11! with love RACC").
União estável was created by much more recent legislation, and it is the Brazilian equivalent to marriage-like unions existent in other countries. It may be created by proving cohabitation, family formation (shared bank account, a child, etc.), or by getting a certificate of it. Uniões estáveis are not as strong as uniões civis, that require for example widows to receive at least a part of the inheritance. União estável may be arranged as a contract, like in other countries, but it is generally mostly or completely automatic and the Brazilian regime of união parcial de bens (neither separação de bens nor união total de bens) is assumed, meaning it is easier to divorce and that relatives may contest not only part of inheritance but the place of the partner in the heirdom at all.
It is confusing, because people now wrongly assume (even in media) that Brazil never did have união civil as our marriage is full and we don't have a different system for same-sex couples... what is void, união civil is not an equivalent to união estável or união de facto in the Anglosphere and Europe, it is our legal term for marriage since many decades past, and translating união estável as civil union will only lead to confusion (the união civil *marries* people, the união estável does not, they are single persons with a contract). Lguipontes ( talk) 16:06, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Same-sex marriage in Brazil article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | A news item involving Same-sex marriage in Brazil was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 9 May 2011. | ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
According to this article, same-sex marriage was authorized in Rio Grande do Sul: http://www.databufpb.com.br/noticia-290-saiba-direito-tribunal-de-justica-do-rio-grande-do-sul-autoriza-casamento-civil-homoafetivo.html
Can somebody look into it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco76bor ( talk • contribs) 01:13, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
CNJ approves resolution urging notary celebrating gay marriage nationwide
Does this mean that we can update the same-sex unions in Brazil page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.196.151 ( talk) 16:24, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
So what?Gay marriage is legal as of today in Brazil.Whether or not it can be challenged says nothing on the validity of the law.This was also the case in Spain where it was legal from 2005 and was challenged in the Supreme Court last year but was ultimately upheld.Brazil should immediately enter the list.
There should be a new page Same Sex Marriage in Brazil MKleid ( talk) 22:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree, the situation is similar to Spain. Add it to the map. -- Smart ( talk) 01:38, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Why has the header column removed Brazil from the list of countries where same-sex marriage is legal nationwide? Are we waiting for the official ruling to be released? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.83.33.110 ( talk) 06:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, it is not a thing of bishops. It was always standard Brazilian usage to regard the formal name of marriage as "união civil" (the first source I added says "a boa e velha união civil"). It was this way at least since the late 50s; I saw both of my grandmothers' certificates, and there it said they were in the regime of união civil, the maximum possible in Brazil. It changes the "estado civil" of the person from solteir@ (single) to casad@ (married). After the união civil ends, living persons may become divorciad@s (divorced) or viúv@s (widow).
I may be wrong, but as far as I know, Brazilian religious marriage is a completely separated institution, and of responsability of the independent religious affiliations Brazilians may have (I never heard of statistics about that – unlike Australia, where about 30% of marriages are known to be enshrined by a religious ritual –, btw).* The official religion of most of the 19th century and before, Roman Catholicism, was entirely disconnected from the government in the coup that installed the first Republic, but at this time other religions were still very minoritary and connected mostly to European Brazilian, Indigenous Brazilian and Afro-Brazilian communities, whose at times de facto and at others official governmental policy toward was assimilation (add Christian sectarianism, institutionalized ethnocentrism/racism and white privilege to the situation of the latter ones), and to a few urban intellectuals (you know I mean Spiritism) that were repressed by the social situation of that time. It is a history different from most Anglosphere countries, who didn't divorce so harshly their religious elements from their governemnts, such as England that still has an official church.
So, our bishops wouldn't have a say in our SE-CU-LAR definition of marriage, enshrined by the State with a word that isn't even the same used for the Christian rite, doesn't matter how much they want. It is the journalists that clearly referred to the Court decision over the fate of the uniões civis, the bishops just pitied that the government gives same-sex unions the same legal standing of families (what was already done since 2011) into marriage (nationwide since 2013) inside the same kind of institution (inb4 "zOMG hellish equaliteh, zeh ghey shuldn b regarded as doin' the same of us sane decent citizens into godly srs bzns!11!!1! we will fade from existence as society, civilization, race from such devilish works of you heretic atheists!11!!1! dats the devil behind this!11! with love RACC").
União estável was created by much more recent legislation, and it is the Brazilian equivalent to marriage-like unions existent in other countries. It may be created by proving cohabitation, family formation (shared bank account, a child, etc.), or by getting a certificate of it. Uniões estáveis are not as strong as uniões civis, that require for example widows to receive at least a part of the inheritance. União estável may be arranged as a contract, like in other countries, but it is generally mostly or completely automatic and the Brazilian regime of união parcial de bens (neither separação de bens nor união total de bens) is assumed, meaning it is easier to divorce and that relatives may contest not only part of inheritance but the place of the partner in the heirdom at all.
It is confusing, because people now wrongly assume (even in media) that Brazil never did have união civil as our marriage is full and we don't have a different system for same-sex couples... what is void, união civil is not an equivalent to união estável or união de facto in the Anglosphere and Europe, it is our legal term for marriage since many decades past, and translating união estável as civil union will only lead to confusion (the união civil *marries* people, the união estável does not, they are single persons with a contract). Lguipontes ( talk) 16:06, 16 August 2013 (UTC)