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[[NOTE: Gah! Sorry, I accidently unchecked the "move talk page" checkbox when renaming the page so that Every Single Word Wasn't Capitalized. I've cut-and-pasted the talk page here. See Talk:Real_Person_Fiction for the talk history. -- User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 10:13, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
Fubar: Alright, I saw what you said on that page, but I don't believe I mentioned anything about having a grudge against the site. I still post at that site, and am still an active part of it. I don't understand why you think that it needs attention - the fact are stated, all I know and nothing more. I write fanfiction of this genre as well, and I didn't think that I needed to re-state anything written in the fanfiction or slash fiction articles, being as it does link to both. I'd like it if you'd talk to me about exactly what you think needs attention - and ask you to contact other people who write in RPF fandoms. If they talk to me about what's wrong - or maybe, gasp, edit it themselves - that might prove to me there is something wrong. But by your statement that it 'needs someone who knows about the genre' you simply prove that you know nothing about it yourself, therefore, how can you judge that there is something wrong with it? -- AmethystAngel 01:30, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thank you. After looking it over again, I agree that the line you mentioned did sound a little nasty - I made an attempt to change it a little and make it sound less like an attack. The legal section I tried to work with as well, but, like you, I have little knowledge about the legality of RPF - I've been involved with it for quite a time, but beyond disclaimers, I never looked into the legal implications of it. I left the pages needing attention bit up, because if others come by who know more about the legality than I, it would be quite useful.
Thank you for pointing out the problems in the article - as the author, I do have a hard time seeing things from any other point of view than my own. -- AmethystAngel 18:31, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Okay, did some cleaning up on the article. However, anyone who wants to add to the timeline, please bear in mind a few things:
This article is close to clean. Let's keep it that way, shall we?-- Mitsukai 20:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm looking through and doing minor grammer fixes to the article. I just do grammer, but I do agree with keeping to the standard wiki formats. -- Karpenl 21:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
In regards to
Is there any evidence for this? All I have seen and heard of during the 1980s is Duran Duran. What other bands is there support of this material existing and the connection to MTV? -- PurplePopple 23:57, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Question: the earliest RPF is from 1844? I don't think so. What about any of the books of the Bible? The Qu'ran? While it's open for debate whether or not Moses or Abraham or Jesus were real people or not, many historians believe that they were. However the stories about them in the texts are clearly fiction. Muhammad, on the other hand, was almost certainly a real person. The stories written about him by early Muslims are also certainly fiction. Beyond that... well we have the epic of Gilgamesh.. again.. questionable if Gilgamesh was a real person or not.. early works by Greeks and the Chinese based on real people... the histories of Shakespeare... does a work have to be *entirely* fictional to count as Real Person Fiction? Or if it is heavily fictionalized is that good enough? Like MacBeth, for example. It's based on a real king but the story as told by Shakespeare barely resembles the true history and has all sorts of fantastical nonsense like ghosts and witches thrown in. Anyway I think I've made my point. The Brontes did not invent this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.138.107 ( talk) 14:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps epics and myths like the Epic of Gilgamesh do not count as real person fiction because they are a retelling of what people believed to be true. If we discount epics and myths, I would suggest that Aristophane's The Clouds, featuring a fictionalized version of Socrates is one of the earliest example of real person fiction. It predates Shakespeare, anyhow. Edmonkman ( talk) 21:22, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Anyone have any non-Slash links that can be placed onto the external references? For that matter, anything not from LJ? It's startin g to look a little biased, and it needs to be cleaned up soonest.-- Mitsukai 13:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
25 October - A LiveJournal community, Bam/Ryan OTP, dedicated to the pairing of Bam Margera and Ryan Dunn is created.
Why exactly is this bit relevant? Is there a major kerfluffle related to this comm, or anything other than just 'Hey, another RPS comm was made on lj at this date'? Because if the latter, the article could very quickly turn into just a long list of 'and on date X, Albion_fic was created, and then Stokesslash, and then OMGLanceAndChrisAreTheOTP'...
El Juno 02:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
There are sixteen external links. I'm sure some--if not most--of them are unrequired and can be removed. After all, Wikipedia is not a web directory. Jude tlk 04:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
This article doesn't cite sources (which isn't too bad when dealing with a topic like this that may not have many articles to cite) but it also makes some conclusions about patterns within the community, still without any evidence. Things like "A very common reaction among newcomers to an RPF community is "I thought I was the only one who wrote stories like this!"" are entirely unverifiable. Someone needs to find articles written elsewhere on the topic and cite them, reporting their conclusions, rather than reporting original ones. Night Gyr 15:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Some places for sources are http://www.fandomhistorypress.com/ and http://fanhistory.schtuff.com/?action=index -- PurplePopple 05:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this should stay in. Why I can't talk for Franz Ferdinand, I was personally prestent at two accounts with Apocalyptica, and got to withness quotes such as "Oh, Eicca and Perttu, sure they will meet you too, but they are still in the shower being gay to each other" Tyyan 03:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Gramatically, shouldn't this be Real-person fiction, or does it have common use that overrides grammar? Ace of Sevens 05:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Do movies that feature fictional treatments of real people fall into this category? Beyond the obvious points of any historical fiction that uses historical people in a significant capacity and Saturday Night Live skits, you have recent movies such as Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, Adaptation., Stuck on You, Being John Malkovich, The Last Action Hero, Return to the Batcave: The Misadventures of Adam and Burt (and numerous other things with Adam West), Wes Craven's New Nightmare and Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle. These are made with the consent and coooperation of the people portrayed, but still fit the basic criteria. Would it be too original-researchy to mention this? Ace of Sevens 05:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Timelines tend to just make an article longer and most people who read this article are not going to care when something happened, other than firsts. When an RPF site on LoTR actors went on line wouldn't count as much as, say, the first RPF site ever to go online, or the first book written about the history of RPF or something. I vote to scrap the timeline or drastically condense it. The article also still needs more references. -- Bluejay Young 17:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
This citation is too vague to be of any use. I've no idea whether the site is a reliable source, but even if so there needs to be a specific link to the survey in question - and if it's no longer available, then it fails WP:V anyway! Loganberry ( Talk) 11:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
"In the early 1920s, Seigneur Books published the series 'Fatty Arbuckle and the Time Pirates.' Inspired by the actor’s career-ending scandal, the novellas depicted a time-traveling Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle forcibly raping famous historical figures."
I find no evidence whatsoever that this series, or "Seigneur Books," ever existed. I doubt very much that such a series could have been "published" in any but an extremely underground way in the 1920s. I suspect this entire paragraph is someone's prank. Pnh ( talk) 21:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Does the object of real person fiction have to still be alive to count? Otherwise, a lot of historical fiction would count as real person fiction. Or is historical fiction a subset of real person fiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edmonkman ( talk • contribs) 21:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
It’s ridiculous to cite a teen vogue article and call Shakespeare RPF. What’s the difference between RPF and historical fiction then? 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:9C91:9750:853D:2CB0 ( talk) 13:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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[[NOTE: Gah! Sorry, I accidently unchecked the "move talk page" checkbox when renaming the page so that Every Single Word Wasn't Capitalized. I've cut-and-pasted the talk page here. See Talk:Real_Person_Fiction for the talk history. -- User:Khym Chanur|Khym Chanur]] 10:13, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
Fubar: Alright, I saw what you said on that page, but I don't believe I mentioned anything about having a grudge against the site. I still post at that site, and am still an active part of it. I don't understand why you think that it needs attention - the fact are stated, all I know and nothing more. I write fanfiction of this genre as well, and I didn't think that I needed to re-state anything written in the fanfiction or slash fiction articles, being as it does link to both. I'd like it if you'd talk to me about exactly what you think needs attention - and ask you to contact other people who write in RPF fandoms. If they talk to me about what's wrong - or maybe, gasp, edit it themselves - that might prove to me there is something wrong. But by your statement that it 'needs someone who knows about the genre' you simply prove that you know nothing about it yourself, therefore, how can you judge that there is something wrong with it? -- AmethystAngel 01:30, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thank you. After looking it over again, I agree that the line you mentioned did sound a little nasty - I made an attempt to change it a little and make it sound less like an attack. The legal section I tried to work with as well, but, like you, I have little knowledge about the legality of RPF - I've been involved with it for quite a time, but beyond disclaimers, I never looked into the legal implications of it. I left the pages needing attention bit up, because if others come by who know more about the legality than I, it would be quite useful.
Thank you for pointing out the problems in the article - as the author, I do have a hard time seeing things from any other point of view than my own. -- AmethystAngel 18:31, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Okay, did some cleaning up on the article. However, anyone who wants to add to the timeline, please bear in mind a few things:
This article is close to clean. Let's keep it that way, shall we?-- Mitsukai 20:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm looking through and doing minor grammer fixes to the article. I just do grammer, but I do agree with keeping to the standard wiki formats. -- Karpenl 21:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
In regards to
Is there any evidence for this? All I have seen and heard of during the 1980s is Duran Duran. What other bands is there support of this material existing and the connection to MTV? -- PurplePopple 23:57, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Question: the earliest RPF is from 1844? I don't think so. What about any of the books of the Bible? The Qu'ran? While it's open for debate whether or not Moses or Abraham or Jesus were real people or not, many historians believe that they were. However the stories about them in the texts are clearly fiction. Muhammad, on the other hand, was almost certainly a real person. The stories written about him by early Muslims are also certainly fiction. Beyond that... well we have the epic of Gilgamesh.. again.. questionable if Gilgamesh was a real person or not.. early works by Greeks and the Chinese based on real people... the histories of Shakespeare... does a work have to be *entirely* fictional to count as Real Person Fiction? Or if it is heavily fictionalized is that good enough? Like MacBeth, for example. It's based on a real king but the story as told by Shakespeare barely resembles the true history and has all sorts of fantastical nonsense like ghosts and witches thrown in. Anyway I think I've made my point. The Brontes did not invent this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.84.138.107 ( talk) 14:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps epics and myths like the Epic of Gilgamesh do not count as real person fiction because they are a retelling of what people believed to be true. If we discount epics and myths, I would suggest that Aristophane's The Clouds, featuring a fictionalized version of Socrates is one of the earliest example of real person fiction. It predates Shakespeare, anyhow. Edmonkman ( talk) 21:22, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Anyone have any non-Slash links that can be placed onto the external references? For that matter, anything not from LJ? It's startin g to look a little biased, and it needs to be cleaned up soonest.-- Mitsukai 13:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
25 October - A LiveJournal community, Bam/Ryan OTP, dedicated to the pairing of Bam Margera and Ryan Dunn is created.
Why exactly is this bit relevant? Is there a major kerfluffle related to this comm, or anything other than just 'Hey, another RPS comm was made on lj at this date'? Because if the latter, the article could very quickly turn into just a long list of 'and on date X, Albion_fic was created, and then Stokesslash, and then OMGLanceAndChrisAreTheOTP'...
El Juno 02:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
There are sixteen external links. I'm sure some--if not most--of them are unrequired and can be removed. After all, Wikipedia is not a web directory. Jude tlk 04:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
This article doesn't cite sources (which isn't too bad when dealing with a topic like this that may not have many articles to cite) but it also makes some conclusions about patterns within the community, still without any evidence. Things like "A very common reaction among newcomers to an RPF community is "I thought I was the only one who wrote stories like this!"" are entirely unverifiable. Someone needs to find articles written elsewhere on the topic and cite them, reporting their conclusions, rather than reporting original ones. Night Gyr 15:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Some places for sources are http://www.fandomhistorypress.com/ and http://fanhistory.schtuff.com/?action=index -- PurplePopple 05:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this should stay in. Why I can't talk for Franz Ferdinand, I was personally prestent at two accounts with Apocalyptica, and got to withness quotes such as "Oh, Eicca and Perttu, sure they will meet you too, but they are still in the shower being gay to each other" Tyyan 03:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Gramatically, shouldn't this be Real-person fiction, or does it have common use that overrides grammar? Ace of Sevens 05:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Do movies that feature fictional treatments of real people fall into this category? Beyond the obvious points of any historical fiction that uses historical people in a significant capacity and Saturday Night Live skits, you have recent movies such as Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, Adaptation., Stuck on You, Being John Malkovich, The Last Action Hero, Return to the Batcave: The Misadventures of Adam and Burt (and numerous other things with Adam West), Wes Craven's New Nightmare and Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle. These are made with the consent and coooperation of the people portrayed, but still fit the basic criteria. Would it be too original-researchy to mention this? Ace of Sevens 05:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Timelines tend to just make an article longer and most people who read this article are not going to care when something happened, other than firsts. When an RPF site on LoTR actors went on line wouldn't count as much as, say, the first RPF site ever to go online, or the first book written about the history of RPF or something. I vote to scrap the timeline or drastically condense it. The article also still needs more references. -- Bluejay Young 17:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
This citation is too vague to be of any use. I've no idea whether the site is a reliable source, but even if so there needs to be a specific link to the survey in question - and if it's no longer available, then it fails WP:V anyway! Loganberry ( Talk) 11:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
"In the early 1920s, Seigneur Books published the series 'Fatty Arbuckle and the Time Pirates.' Inspired by the actor’s career-ending scandal, the novellas depicted a time-traveling Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle forcibly raping famous historical figures."
I find no evidence whatsoever that this series, or "Seigneur Books," ever existed. I doubt very much that such a series could have been "published" in any but an extremely underground way in the 1920s. I suspect this entire paragraph is someone's prank. Pnh ( talk) 21:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Does the object of real person fiction have to still be alive to count? Otherwise, a lot of historical fiction would count as real person fiction. Or is historical fiction a subset of real person fiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edmonkman ( talk • contribs) 21:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
It’s ridiculous to cite a teen vogue article and call Shakespeare RPF. What’s the difference between RPF and historical fiction then? 2603:6010:11F0:3C0:9C91:9750:853D:2CB0 ( talk) 13:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)