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This article was selected as the article for improvement on 1 September 2014 for a period of one week. |
talk:Raven Tales ravens are inportant to the native americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.200.136 ( talk) 28 February 2008
Seeing these early improvements, I wonder if I was premature I'm moving the article from Raven Tales to its current title Ravens in Native American mythology. Looking at those sources, it seems like raven tales are a real thing, and not just a generalized title for raven stories from Native American mythology. Should we move the article back to its original title? With the current title, it is much broader and would include things like art, where as the Raven Tales article would be strictly about the oral and written myths. My thinking was that the Raven Tales would make a good subsection of a broader article, but I could be convinced otherwise. -- Nick Penguin( contribs) 02:37, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Proposal: Raven in Creation should be merged into this page. The scope and content are essentially identical. We don't want to end up with duplicates. Finnusertop ( talk | guestbook | contribs) 06:18, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Can we also merge from
Txamsem because Txamsem is the name that one of the tribes refer to Raven as. And
Haida_mythology because the content of the article is all about Raven.
David Condrey (
talk) 08:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm trying to decide what the best way of organizing all of the raven stories should be, what do you guys think? I'm thinking, it would probably be best to have primary sections for each tribe, and then within that, have a subsection for each story. Or do you think perhaps broad chronological order would be best? Or perhaps each story doesn't warrant its own subsection? David Condrey ( talk) 05:34, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
I'd love to find a regional map depicting the location and relation of the numerous tribes.. I may start scribbling one myself as I dig deeper. This is a cool subject. :) David Condrey ( talk) 06:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
How are articles assessed? Is there a tool that checks articles? I was tempted to change the class and importance scale because I think we've met the req. for B class, potentially even A at this point... and this article should def. be high importance for WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. For WikiProject Mythology I'd suggest medium or potentially high importance as well.— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Condrey ( talk • contribs) 19:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
This image is next to a section about the story "Bringing the Light" by the Cahto but I think it may be incorrect; I think the artist may even be incorrect if the footnote of the image is accurate.. If you look at the Tlingit section it says "All the people asked Raven to persuade Seagull to open it and release the light.".. Makes me wonder this image is actual representative of that story. Not sure. Perhaps open to interpretation. David Condrey ( talk) 19:55, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
As I've been organizing the article by tribe thus far, I just learned that all of the tribes may possibly fall under 1 of 3 larger groups.. The Coast_Salish_peoples or Interior Salish peoples. Recommend, not changing the structure currently but dividing it further within parent sections for the Salish groups if this is correct. Also, ultimately hoping that each section will have a list (like a few of the sections currently do) so we can ultimately gather a list of ALL of the raven stories. Pretty much every section's list needs lots of expansion and some sections don't even have a list at all yet. As I run across story names I've been slowly ticking them off.. David Condrey ( talk) 06:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I found an excellent image which I uploaded and added to this article but it was deleted. deleted image on Wikimedia can be found here.
I'm unable to dispute the deletion or re-add it myself because I've since been indefinitely blocked from Wikimedia Commons but I would like to request that someone else please republish it to Commons or dispute the deletion and re-add it to this article once the deletion is reverted because it was an excellent illustration and the deletion was done without merit, and the image is one of very few that I was able to find for this article (not to mention I was actually very thrilled to find this image because I had been searching exhaustively for images for this article without much luck until I came upon this one). I think that adding some highly relevant images to this article could do quite a bit to improve it's overall appeal and readability.
talk page of the deleted image still exists here where you will see that I had left a comment about the images license when I originally added it. If you go to | this article, this is where the image was found. If you look more closely and view the source code of the page here. [view-source: http://sacred-texts.com/nam/nw/tmt/index.htm | View source code] notice on line 18 it reads Dancers: Edward Curtis 1910; Public domain image. David Condrey ( talk) 06:03, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
All open to debate of course, but please speak up early if you have a different idea.. Just going to summarize the current direction I'm planning to go with this in case anyone wants to discuss alternative ideas before I get started.. I don't plan to do any major edits until Friday or Saturday.
Merge of other articles doesn't seem to have gotten any opposition so I'll be looking into merging the content of those articles. Afterwards, I'll start working on the subsections which are in need of expansion. Some contain only a list of a few works that I came across while reading. These sections should be expanded or removed. My goal is to have at least a single strong paragraph for each subsection and end each section with list of works if applicable. (basically hope to have every section match the quality of the Tsimshian section which I think is the best so far)
If it's difficult to come up with a lead paragraph then the section is probably not significant enough and I would suggest removing.
Lists with only a couple works should be expanded or the list should be removed unless the fact that the list is short is in someway notable and mentioned in the lead-in (e.g. potential tribe controversy or disconnect). Thought being that a tribe that may only have 1 or 2 works likely had little to no vested interest and may not be worth creating a section for.
Additionally, I recommend improving all section lists with prefixed year and page reference similar to how the list in the Tahltan section is currently.
Sections titled after the name of a story should avoid being primarily quotations from the story. Stories probably shouldn't have their own section unless they are substantially more significant than the other stories. In such case, the content of the section should probably be more focused on why that story is most significant and how it's significance affected things or influenced things rather than a general synopsis of the story itself. David Condrey ( talk) 03:39, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru ( talk) 10:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
Raven Tales → Ravens in Native American mythology – The page seems to have been at that title, but was moved to its current one a decade ago. The current title is strange, because it does not involve any story called "Raven Tales" as a proper noun. The original title seems to have made far more sense. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 06:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Ravens in Native American mythology is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured list candidate |
It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in North America may be able to help! |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was selected as the article for improvement on 1 September 2014 for a period of one week. |
talk:Raven Tales ravens are inportant to the native americans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.200.136 ( talk) 28 February 2008
Seeing these early improvements, I wonder if I was premature I'm moving the article from Raven Tales to its current title Ravens in Native American mythology. Looking at those sources, it seems like raven tales are a real thing, and not just a generalized title for raven stories from Native American mythology. Should we move the article back to its original title? With the current title, it is much broader and would include things like art, where as the Raven Tales article would be strictly about the oral and written myths. My thinking was that the Raven Tales would make a good subsection of a broader article, but I could be convinced otherwise. -- Nick Penguin( contribs) 02:37, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Proposal: Raven in Creation should be merged into this page. The scope and content are essentially identical. We don't want to end up with duplicates. Finnusertop ( talk | guestbook | contribs) 06:18, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Can we also merge from
Txamsem because Txamsem is the name that one of the tribes refer to Raven as. And
Haida_mythology because the content of the article is all about Raven.
David Condrey (
talk) 08:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm trying to decide what the best way of organizing all of the raven stories should be, what do you guys think? I'm thinking, it would probably be best to have primary sections for each tribe, and then within that, have a subsection for each story. Or do you think perhaps broad chronological order would be best? Or perhaps each story doesn't warrant its own subsection? David Condrey ( talk) 05:34, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
I'd love to find a regional map depicting the location and relation of the numerous tribes.. I may start scribbling one myself as I dig deeper. This is a cool subject. :) David Condrey ( talk) 06:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
How are articles assessed? Is there a tool that checks articles? I was tempted to change the class and importance scale because I think we've met the req. for B class, potentially even A at this point... and this article should def. be high importance for WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. For WikiProject Mythology I'd suggest medium or potentially high importance as well.— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Condrey ( talk • contribs) 19:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
This image is next to a section about the story "Bringing the Light" by the Cahto but I think it may be incorrect; I think the artist may even be incorrect if the footnote of the image is accurate.. If you look at the Tlingit section it says "All the people asked Raven to persuade Seagull to open it and release the light.".. Makes me wonder this image is actual representative of that story. Not sure. Perhaps open to interpretation. David Condrey ( talk) 19:55, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
As I've been organizing the article by tribe thus far, I just learned that all of the tribes may possibly fall under 1 of 3 larger groups.. The Coast_Salish_peoples or Interior Salish peoples. Recommend, not changing the structure currently but dividing it further within parent sections for the Salish groups if this is correct. Also, ultimately hoping that each section will have a list (like a few of the sections currently do) so we can ultimately gather a list of ALL of the raven stories. Pretty much every section's list needs lots of expansion and some sections don't even have a list at all yet. As I run across story names I've been slowly ticking them off.. David Condrey ( talk) 06:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I found an excellent image which I uploaded and added to this article but it was deleted. deleted image on Wikimedia can be found here.
I'm unable to dispute the deletion or re-add it myself because I've since been indefinitely blocked from Wikimedia Commons but I would like to request that someone else please republish it to Commons or dispute the deletion and re-add it to this article once the deletion is reverted because it was an excellent illustration and the deletion was done without merit, and the image is one of very few that I was able to find for this article (not to mention I was actually very thrilled to find this image because I had been searching exhaustively for images for this article without much luck until I came upon this one). I think that adding some highly relevant images to this article could do quite a bit to improve it's overall appeal and readability.
talk page of the deleted image still exists here where you will see that I had left a comment about the images license when I originally added it. If you go to | this article, this is where the image was found. If you look more closely and view the source code of the page here. [view-source: http://sacred-texts.com/nam/nw/tmt/index.htm | View source code] notice on line 18 it reads Dancers: Edward Curtis 1910; Public domain image. David Condrey ( talk) 06:03, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
All open to debate of course, but please speak up early if you have a different idea.. Just going to summarize the current direction I'm planning to go with this in case anyone wants to discuss alternative ideas before I get started.. I don't plan to do any major edits until Friday or Saturday.
Merge of other articles doesn't seem to have gotten any opposition so I'll be looking into merging the content of those articles. Afterwards, I'll start working on the subsections which are in need of expansion. Some contain only a list of a few works that I came across while reading. These sections should be expanded or removed. My goal is to have at least a single strong paragraph for each subsection and end each section with list of works if applicable. (basically hope to have every section match the quality of the Tsimshian section which I think is the best so far)
If it's difficult to come up with a lead paragraph then the section is probably not significant enough and I would suggest removing.
Lists with only a couple works should be expanded or the list should be removed unless the fact that the list is short is in someway notable and mentioned in the lead-in (e.g. potential tribe controversy or disconnect). Thought being that a tribe that may only have 1 or 2 works likely had little to no vested interest and may not be worth creating a section for.
Additionally, I recommend improving all section lists with prefixed year and page reference similar to how the list in the Tahltan section is currently.
Sections titled after the name of a story should avoid being primarily quotations from the story. Stories probably shouldn't have their own section unless they are substantially more significant than the other stories. In such case, the content of the section should probably be more focused on why that story is most significant and how it's significance affected things or influenced things rather than a general synopsis of the story itself. David Condrey ( talk) 03:39, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Raven Tales. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:45, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru ( talk) 10:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
Raven Tales → Ravens in Native American mythology – The page seems to have been at that title, but was moved to its current one a decade ago. The current title is strange, because it does not involve any story called "Raven Tales" as a proper noun. The original title seems to have made far more sense. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 06:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)