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In case anyone is interested, here is the former church of St Barnabas, Guildford Road, Lambeth: [1]. There is some interesting detail in the description. Was expecting to see this image at Commons, but can't seem to find it. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
Is Vaughan Williams considered to be a hyphenated name? If so, where are the hyphens? If not, it's bad writing style to put "Vaughan Williams" in almost every sentence. It should be Williams and then also try some pronouns. After all, we know who the article is about. 108.18.136.147 ( talk) 22:59, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
The piece "The First Nowell, A Nativity Play" is mentioned in the section on VW and English Folk Music, and is linked to the Wikipedia page for the carol of the same name. That page, though, makes no mention of the VW work nor indeed of Vaughan Williams, so the reference is of little value. The work can be performed with actors, singers and orchestra, or simply as a choral song cycle. I belong to a choir that is going to perform it in that form this winter, so I tried looking it up here, and I think it merits a page of its own. It probably wouldn't take me too long to knock up something simple-minded for a new wikipedia page which could link from here and the page on the carol, but there is almost certainly somebody who could do a better job of it than me before that! Would anyone like to take that on? Isambardcat ( talk) 10:28, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
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I linked to some of his pieces, and found later that some probably are not linked because the were linked in the biography section. I suggest that we link once more in the music section, because I can imagine readers to look just there, not reading it all. We did so for Mendelssohn and Debussy, afaik. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
How did this become a featured article when the entire text (except links) is red, and has been that way since the edit of 09:02, 14 December 2016? The effect shows up with multiple browsers and multiple devices, both the desktop and mobile versions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.231.205 ( talk)
The lede uses this term, and User:PiCo asserts that its meaning is so well known and obivously as to make any explanation or linking un-necessary. The only other use of this term is in a direct quote, which does not directly define it (nor clearly by context clues), and there is no surrounding explanation of the quote. Our Teutonic page is a DAB with several plausible targets but none that are clearly on topic. What exactly is the shade of meaning intended here? Does it mean classical Germanic ( Teutons)? Or modern Germanic peoples?
Earlier in the lede, it says his music is "a decisive break in British music from its German-dominated style of the 19th century." Putting all this together, does "Ravel helped him clarify the textures of his music and free it from Teutonic influences." mean he was freed from his own earlier mode in his work or that Ravel led RVW at his start to break the whole British paradigm?
What is relevant here? If we really mean German style (what was happening in the world that the time), we already said that in the lede. How about instead stating what the style was (brainstorming..."developed his own lighter style, rather than the heavier style that was popular at the time"), or not bothering re-labeling the influence at all? DMacks ( talk) 09:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
If you read the main text you will see that the word is that used by RVW himself. I assume he used it in the normal non-specialist sense of "German", as given in the OED and Chambers, but I don't think it is for me to gloss his words: merely to record them faithfully. His teachers, Parry and Stanford, were followers of Brahms and Wagner, and I take VW's comment about Teutonic music to point to them and their predecessors, but I should not be comfortable about saying so specifically without a relevant WP:RS. By coincidence, Claude Debussy was on the front page a few days ago, and in his article you will find similar references by the composer to Teutonic influences. Tim riley talk 16:54, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
Coming late to this discussion, I would suggest that "Teutonic" influences should not be referred simply to "Music of Germany", since what RVW was referring to was the Austro-German classical tradition which included Haydn, Mozart, Mahler, and Bruckner, none of whom were actually "German". Myopic Bookworm ( talk) 10:01, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps adding a list of street names in Essex that refer to VW, citing "Right Move, UK's number one property website for properties for sale". I do not believe such material belongs here, but will of course go with any consensus to the contrary. Tim riley talk 16:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Vaughan Williams spent quite a lot of time cycling around Essex in 1904 following his encounter, in Brentwood, with an old farm worker (a Mr Pottifer) who sang him the song "By Bushes and by Briars". This introduction to Folk Song made a strong impression on RVW and may even have been responsible for the great influence that Folk Song material had on the development of his music thereafter. John Hamilton ( talk) 01:17, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Following advice here I have removed the link. Tim riley talk 20:10, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Are you sure his name is "RIFE" instead of "RAL-FE"? One of the coaches of my student orchestra said that his name is "RAL-FE". Baccherini ( talk) 22:37, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
In case anyone is interested, here is the former church of St Barnabas, Guildford Road, Lambeth: [1]. There is some interesting detail in the description. Was expecting to see this image at Commons, but can't seem to find it. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
Is Vaughan Williams considered to be a hyphenated name? If so, where are the hyphens? If not, it's bad writing style to put "Vaughan Williams" in almost every sentence. It should be Williams and then also try some pronouns. After all, we know who the article is about. 108.18.136.147 ( talk) 22:59, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
The piece "The First Nowell, A Nativity Play" is mentioned in the section on VW and English Folk Music, and is linked to the Wikipedia page for the carol of the same name. That page, though, makes no mention of the VW work nor indeed of Vaughan Williams, so the reference is of little value. The work can be performed with actors, singers and orchestra, or simply as a choral song cycle. I belong to a choir that is going to perform it in that form this winter, so I tried looking it up here, and I think it merits a page of its own. It probably wouldn't take me too long to knock up something simple-minded for a new wikipedia page which could link from here and the page on the carol, but there is almost certainly somebody who could do a better job of it than me before that! Would anyone like to take that on? Isambardcat ( talk) 10:28, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
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I linked to some of his pieces, and found later that some probably are not linked because the were linked in the biography section. I suggest that we link once more in the music section, because I can imagine readers to look just there, not reading it all. We did so for Mendelssohn and Debussy, afaik. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
How did this become a featured article when the entire text (except links) is red, and has been that way since the edit of 09:02, 14 December 2016? The effect shows up with multiple browsers and multiple devices, both the desktop and mobile versions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.231.205 ( talk)
The lede uses this term, and User:PiCo asserts that its meaning is so well known and obivously as to make any explanation or linking un-necessary. The only other use of this term is in a direct quote, which does not directly define it (nor clearly by context clues), and there is no surrounding explanation of the quote. Our Teutonic page is a DAB with several plausible targets but none that are clearly on topic. What exactly is the shade of meaning intended here? Does it mean classical Germanic ( Teutons)? Or modern Germanic peoples?
Earlier in the lede, it says his music is "a decisive break in British music from its German-dominated style of the 19th century." Putting all this together, does "Ravel helped him clarify the textures of his music and free it from Teutonic influences." mean he was freed from his own earlier mode in his work or that Ravel led RVW at his start to break the whole British paradigm?
What is relevant here? If we really mean German style (what was happening in the world that the time), we already said that in the lede. How about instead stating what the style was (brainstorming..."developed his own lighter style, rather than the heavier style that was popular at the time"), or not bothering re-labeling the influence at all? DMacks ( talk) 09:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
If you read the main text you will see that the word is that used by RVW himself. I assume he used it in the normal non-specialist sense of "German", as given in the OED and Chambers, but I don't think it is for me to gloss his words: merely to record them faithfully. His teachers, Parry and Stanford, were followers of Brahms and Wagner, and I take VW's comment about Teutonic music to point to them and their predecessors, but I should not be comfortable about saying so specifically without a relevant WP:RS. By coincidence, Claude Debussy was on the front page a few days ago, and in his article you will find similar references by the composer to Teutonic influences. Tim riley talk 16:54, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
Coming late to this discussion, I would suggest that "Teutonic" influences should not be referred simply to "Music of Germany", since what RVW was referring to was the Austro-German classical tradition which included Haydn, Mozart, Mahler, and Bruckner, none of whom were actually "German". Myopic Bookworm ( talk) 10:01, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps adding a list of street names in Essex that refer to VW, citing "Right Move, UK's number one property website for properties for sale". I do not believe such material belongs here, but will of course go with any consensus to the contrary. Tim riley talk 16:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Vaughan Williams spent quite a lot of time cycling around Essex in 1904 following his encounter, in Brentwood, with an old farm worker (a Mr Pottifer) who sang him the song "By Bushes and by Briars". This introduction to Folk Song made a strong impression on RVW and may even have been responsible for the great influence that Folk Song material had on the development of his music thereafter. John Hamilton ( talk) 01:17, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Following advice here I have removed the link. Tim riley talk 20:10, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Are you sure his name is "RIFE" instead of "RAL-FE"? One of the coaches of my student orchestra said that his name is "RAL-FE". Baccherini ( talk) 22:37, 2 March 2021 (UTC)