This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Should I start converting the references in this spin-off article to footnotes? -- Frank W Sweet 21:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay. It's done. The only one that gave me a problem was "(Kressin, 2003)," but I figured it out by searching in pubmed. -- Frank W Sweet 13:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
This article introduces the idea of different human races as subspecies. I have never heard any serious scholar suggest that different races constitute different subspecies, or even that such a model is useful. Does anyone have a source for this? -- Allen 00:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Historians, anthropologists and social scientists often describe human "races" as a social construct, preferring instead the term "population," which can be given a clear operational definition. Even many of those who reject the formal concept of "race," however, still use the word in day-to-day speech. This may be an effect of the underlying cultural significance of "race" in racist societies. Regardless of the term used, a working concept of population grouping can be useful, because in the absence of cheap and widespread genetic tests, various group-linked gene mutations (see Cystic fibrosis, Lactose intolerance, Tay-Sachs Disease and Sickle cell anemia) are difficult to address without recourse to a category between "individual" and "species". As genetic tests for such conditions become cheaper, and as detailed haplotype maps and SNP databases become available, the need to resort to "race" should diminish. This is fortunate, as increasing interracial marriage in the United States is reducing the predictive power of "race" in the United States. For example, most babies born with Tay-Sachs in North America at present are not from Jewish families, despite stereotypes to contrary. -- Frank W Sweet 02:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm adding this topic to the Talk pages for the main race article as well. There should be some kind of subarticle on the casta concept and paintings from the era of Spanish and Portuguese control of Latin America. This is a well-known area of Latin American art and there are whole books on the topic. The paintings seem to have been an attempt at a racial version of a biological taxonomy, purporting to show what different racial combinations looked like and assigning each a name. Typically, the paintings had at least 16 categories, though some had more.
I am adding this issue to the Talk pages of three different related articles in hopes of prodding someone more knowledgeable to give this article a shot. I personally know only a little, having been introduced to the subject by a web site I've long since misplaced and an art exhibition here in Dallas (probably at the Meadows Museum of Art, which specializes in Latin-American art). Lawikitejana 20:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
"What occurs in Brazil that differentiates it largely from the US or South Africa, for example, is that black or mixed-race people are, in fact, more accepted in social circles if they have more education..."
There are few neighborhoods in the US, save perhaps some in the deep south, where a black man with a college education and a six figure income isn't considered socially acceptable in "white" circles. Whoever wrote this either lives in a backward community or has some racial issues him or herself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DotsyMe ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
As previous editor comments have suggested, this article reads like an article fork to push a point of view, and has sourcing problems. I invite editors to look at the source list I am continually updating on this topic, to see what current sources say. I'll look for places to merge this article. Your suggestions about how to fix the problem will be much appreciated. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 12:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
See this deletion of opposing views. [1] Miradre ( talk) 13:17, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Jefferson Fish has argued that race is a social rather than a biological concept and that the question of racial differences in intelligence is not a scientific one. For example, one might want to compare black-white IQ differences in Brazil with those in the United States. Since many people who are considered black in the U. S. would not be considered black in Brazil, and since many people who are considered white in Brazil would not be considered white in the U. S., such a comparison is not possible.
Could someone enlighten me on what this thread is about? Is it about whether a text by Jefferson Fish is reliable for this article? If so, which of his works are we discussing? Itsmejudith ( talk) 13:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
This is a good example of a bad article, All POV and no citations for anything after the first section, will someone redo or delete this article as it doesn't measure up to encyclopedic standards in it's current form, it's mostly unsourced opinion and POV. 90.193.39.149 ( talk) 16:39, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
This looks more like a 4th year sociology paper. The facts are the facts. If you don't like them, write yourself you're own 'scholarly entry'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.171.51.164 ( talk) 13:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Anthropology and Human Biology Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human genetics and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library system at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to other academic libraries in the same large metropolitan area) and have been researching these issues sporadically since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 02:11, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about "Race and society". It appears to have been high jacked by "race realists" and turned into a POV fork of the main race article. Is there anything worth keeping or should it just be dumped and redirected? — ArtifexMayhem ( talk) 17:42, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:16, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Miscegenation regarding moving content from that article to several new articles, and merging out some of the rest. The current article has >150 kB prose. - LaTeeDa ( talk) 16:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
This section borrows heavily from former iterations of the main article Race and intelligence, which has been substantially improved since then. I would be happy to update the section to reflect current consensus over there, but I also wonder whether it even fits in this article. It really doesn't say much about society as written and it seems dubious to me that WP:RS exist to fix that. Thoughts? Generalrelative ( talk) 22:40, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Should I start converting the references in this spin-off article to footnotes? -- Frank W Sweet 21:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay. It's done. The only one that gave me a problem was "(Kressin, 2003)," but I figured it out by searching in pubmed. -- Frank W Sweet 13:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
This article introduces the idea of different human races as subspecies. I have never heard any serious scholar suggest that different races constitute different subspecies, or even that such a model is useful. Does anyone have a source for this? -- Allen 00:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Historians, anthropologists and social scientists often describe human "races" as a social construct, preferring instead the term "population," which can be given a clear operational definition. Even many of those who reject the formal concept of "race," however, still use the word in day-to-day speech. This may be an effect of the underlying cultural significance of "race" in racist societies. Regardless of the term used, a working concept of population grouping can be useful, because in the absence of cheap and widespread genetic tests, various group-linked gene mutations (see Cystic fibrosis, Lactose intolerance, Tay-Sachs Disease and Sickle cell anemia) are difficult to address without recourse to a category between "individual" and "species". As genetic tests for such conditions become cheaper, and as detailed haplotype maps and SNP databases become available, the need to resort to "race" should diminish. This is fortunate, as increasing interracial marriage in the United States is reducing the predictive power of "race" in the United States. For example, most babies born with Tay-Sachs in North America at present are not from Jewish families, despite stereotypes to contrary. -- Frank W Sweet 02:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm adding this topic to the Talk pages for the main race article as well. There should be some kind of subarticle on the casta concept and paintings from the era of Spanish and Portuguese control of Latin America. This is a well-known area of Latin American art and there are whole books on the topic. The paintings seem to have been an attempt at a racial version of a biological taxonomy, purporting to show what different racial combinations looked like and assigning each a name. Typically, the paintings had at least 16 categories, though some had more.
I am adding this issue to the Talk pages of three different related articles in hopes of prodding someone more knowledgeable to give this article a shot. I personally know only a little, having been introduced to the subject by a web site I've long since misplaced and an art exhibition here in Dallas (probably at the Meadows Museum of Art, which specializes in Latin-American art). Lawikitejana 20:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
"What occurs in Brazil that differentiates it largely from the US or South Africa, for example, is that black or mixed-race people are, in fact, more accepted in social circles if they have more education..."
There are few neighborhoods in the US, save perhaps some in the deep south, where a black man with a college education and a six figure income isn't considered socially acceptable in "white" circles. Whoever wrote this either lives in a backward community or has some racial issues him or herself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DotsyMe ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
As previous editor comments have suggested, this article reads like an article fork to push a point of view, and has sourcing problems. I invite editors to look at the source list I am continually updating on this topic, to see what current sources say. I'll look for places to merge this article. Your suggestions about how to fix the problem will be much appreciated. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 12:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
See this deletion of opposing views. [1] Miradre ( talk) 13:17, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Jefferson Fish has argued that race is a social rather than a biological concept and that the question of racial differences in intelligence is not a scientific one. For example, one might want to compare black-white IQ differences in Brazil with those in the United States. Since many people who are considered black in the U. S. would not be considered black in Brazil, and since many people who are considered white in Brazil would not be considered white in the U. S., such a comparison is not possible.
Could someone enlighten me on what this thread is about? Is it about whether a text by Jefferson Fish is reliable for this article? If so, which of his works are we discussing? Itsmejudith ( talk) 13:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
This is a good example of a bad article, All POV and no citations for anything after the first section, will someone redo or delete this article as it doesn't measure up to encyclopedic standards in it's current form, it's mostly unsourced opinion and POV. 90.193.39.149 ( talk) 16:39, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
This looks more like a 4th year sociology paper. The facts are the facts. If you don't like them, write yourself you're own 'scholarly entry'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.171.51.164 ( talk) 13:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Anthropology and Human Biology Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human genetics and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library system at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to other academic libraries in the same large metropolitan area) and have been researching these issues sporadically since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 02:11, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about "Race and society". It appears to have been high jacked by "race realists" and turned into a POV fork of the main race article. Is there anything worth keeping or should it just be dumped and redirected? — ArtifexMayhem ( talk) 17:42, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Race and society. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 15:16, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Miscegenation regarding moving content from that article to several new articles, and merging out some of the rest. The current article has >150 kB prose. - LaTeeDa ( talk) 16:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
This section borrows heavily from former iterations of the main article Race and intelligence, which has been substantially improved since then. I would be happy to update the section to reflect current consensus over there, but I also wonder whether it even fits in this article. It really doesn't say much about society as written and it seems dubious to me that WP:RS exist to fix that. Thoughts? Generalrelative ( talk) 22:40, 12 July 2020 (UTC)