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I added a reference and some language denoting that the name Quetzalcoatl is excessively difficult to separate from various ancient leaders and the ancient sky-god. 68.18.115.56 ( talk) 22:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)RoyalE
Can someone who knows something about this put in the standard pronunciation of Quetzalcoatl - it is hardly a common sequence of characters in english and I for one have no idea how to say it! HyDeckar 13:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
ket-zal-ko-a-teh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.253.241.90 ( talk) 02:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Its Kehts-coh-aht, the "tl" 'silent- at least the "l" is. Online version of his name sounded out here: http://members.aol.com/maroic/quetz.wav Xuchilbara 23:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I'm mexican, and I can proudly tell you nahuatl is my mother language. First of all, you need to know there are several nahuatl dialects among us mexicans. I highly suggest you Orizaba's nahuatl. In Mexico we call it the high level nahuatl. We know there are a lot of mistakes in the others. For example: The word "Huey-TL-alpan" among the others is pronounced "Huey-T-alpan" which is clearly mistaken, because it came from: Huey(big or in this case Mountain's top), and TLal-li(that is earth or in this case place). If you pronounce it T-alli, it has no sense. Now, the TL in high level nahuatl is mute. Let me explain you clearer, how would you say in english S-H(sh), and then the T-H(th)? Then how would you say LH? Follow me? When you say the TL in nahuatl actually you should say TLH. Now, the word "Quetzalcoatl" is pronounced KE-TZAL(the tz is strong as in German)COHUA-TLH. Another mistake among the other nahuatl dialects is that they say kOAtlh instead of kOHUAtlh.
Now, it is amazing, but even between mexicans nobody knows or mentions the philosophical meaning of the concept eagle-feathered. You must know the eagle among the Aztec people was the soul, and then the snake was the body. In other words it was the fight between trascendental world against none trascendental world, the spiritual world against the material world. We say the gods tided both in one fight. Only by diying while fighting against the material, your soul would sprout like a flower into a new iluminated form of life and Xochipilli "the lord of the flowers" would receive your soul's sprout. That is why the flowerish battles among aztec people.
I recomend to you guys the book of Laurette Sejourne called "Thought and religion in ancient Mexico". This book suited indeed my demands. Ciao
I changed the "In archeology" section title to "In paleontology". This section is pretty weak and could possibly be removed altogether. Nevertheless it is potentially worthwhile to link to an important paleospecies which derives its name from the MesoAmerican deity. Thoughts?
For clarity, I removed a statement about juvenile quetzals having vestigial claws "like pterosaurs". Bird wings and pterosaur wings are, broadly speaking, non-homologous, except at the base level of derived tetropod forelimb and any comparison between the two is misleading. Also, I'm pretty sure that the author was probably confusing another South American bird the hoatzin whose juvenile stage is well known to express two claws. Anyone with information about vestigal claws in the Quetzal should repost it with proper citation.
I removed the sentance at the end of the last paragraph reading "He was believed to be originally Aztec." Believed by who? This doesn't make sence to me. The Feathered Serpent Deity is pan-MesoAmerican, going back to the pre-Classic, centuries before the Aztec are known to have existed as a distinct people. -- User:Infrogmation
I changed the spelling of Texcatlipoca to the more common Tezcatlipoca. When I have the time though I'd like to add a lot more comprehensive stuff about the devision between Ehecatl and Topiltzin, and have pages about the entire Topiltzin epic including Mixcoatl and Huemac. -- Erosenfield
Just refining some of the information: Quetzalcoatl was the morning star Venus, whereas his brother, Xolotl was the evening star Venus. As the morning star, Quetzalcoatl was known as Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli (say that three times fast).
The "serpent" depicted in Yaxchilan Lintel 25 is NOT considered to be that of Quetzalcoatl/Kukulcan/"feathered serpent". Rather, it is a "vision serpent" out of whose mouth is emerging a warrior/god, probably an impersonation by the Yaxchilan ruler "Shield Jaguar" a.k.a., Itzamnaaj B'alam II. If anything, the "god" that is depicted here is Tlaloc, the Aztec/ Teotihuacan god of Storm/Rain/Warrior. The "vision" is created through the bloodletting sacrifice of the women depicted next to the serpent, Lady K'ab'al Xook, wife of Shield Jaguar. In another lintel, she is depicted pulling a barbed rope through a hole in her tongue. Furthermore, since this page is on Quetzalcoatl, which is strictly speaking a Central Mexican, and more specifically Aztec, diety, the image should also be Aztec. There are Maya depictions of what is generally considered the equivalent diety, Kukulcan, but putting that up on this page would be akin to posting an image of Jupiter (god) on the page for Zeus. I wish I could provide a link to an image of Quetzalcoatl in the public domain, but I can't. If I do come across one, I will come back. See Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube (2000) "Chronicles of the Maya Kings and Queens" page 125 for further info on Yaxchilan Lintel 25 Rawhead
What would people worship quetzalcoatl for? and what would they give as a sacrifice?
There is some (not insignificant) discussion of Quetzalcoatl initiating the banishment of human sacrifice. The Deity's association with a Jesus-like character is consistent with this, and sacrifices are inconsistent with the new paradigm of consciousness that Quetzalcoatl initiated (ie. spirtual, love-based consciousness rather than fear-based sacrificial consciousness) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.106.65.148 ( talk) 14:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
No, Sabrinaneo, Huitzilopochtli and others were the main human-sacrificers. It was a part of Aztec legend that Quetzalcoatl refused human sacrifices, and instead only wanted small animals like Butterflies, frogs, etc.Quetzalcoatl himself was a Creator God, Wind God, God od the Morning Star, and patron of various other things. 68.98.14.19 ( talk) 17:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I changed the short paragraph stating that Moctezuma believed Cortes to be the returning Quetzalcoatl to reflect modern (post-1970) research on the topic. Really, no one believes anymore that anybody worshipped Cortes as a god for any significant length of time. Any worship that may have existed was cut short real quick when Cortes and his men captured Moctezuma (if he was so willing to hand over the city to a returning god, why did he have to be captured?), attacked a group of unarmed, dancing celebrants, and stopped on their way out to grab the treasure from the temples (see Bernal Diaz del Castillo).
Wasn't Quetzalcoatl expected to return as a white god? Some groups, such as the LDS see this as evidence that Christ visited America
I...zach harris believe that the Aztecs believed Quetzalcoatl was Jesus Christ
Uh...well, thats probably incorrect "Zach".
The article states that Quetzalcoatl called 12 men to reign in his stead, yet no citations are listed. As Zach pointed out, some people believe Quetzalcoatl to be Jesus Christ and it is highly probably that the aforementioned statement was added to give more credibility to certain religious beliefs rather than having been based on fact. Can anyone cite any credible references of Quetzalcoatl calling 12 men to reign in his stead?
ugh...look pal, Quetzalcoatl was the "white god" or his color association was "white". Jesus on the other hand was probably black or dark-skinned despite his "European Look". I mean- it happens all the time. Look at Juan Diego a Native American of Mexico- why do they depict him as a Euro-Spanish look? Hmmm...I wonder...
Jesus skin-color regardless, Quetsalcoatl is believed to be the mesoamerican interpretation of Christ. The fact that Quetzalcoatl itself existed before Christ is explained by the fact that Christ was spoken of before His first coming to the Earth (Genesis 3:15 KJV is the first I've come across, referring to Christ as a son of Eve who shall smite the head of Satan, a reference to the belief that Christ atoned for all sins, setting back Satan's plans to lead away the children of men). The inclusion of the LDS interpretation is completely understandable, and its inclusion into this article is not as partisan as some believe.21:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)Sagittarius Flame
My understanding of Quetzalcoatl and his "Whiteness" or lack there of is often in the same context of "is Jesus white? black? how about Cleopatra?" However, the only viable argument I have ever heard was from a local Professor who stated that it is quite possible that he would be considered returning as something akin to white, due to their knowledge of prisms, color, or a combination of both. That being said, outside of the fantastical beliefs of the LDS, I am sure that it would just add gas to an unusable fire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.227.246.145 ( talk) 01:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
It's not so much the Cortés believed himself to be a God, it's that when Quetzalcoatl was banished, he vowed that if he ever returned, he would destroy the Aztec. Quetzalcoatl was described as fair skinned & bearded, and when he departed he left in a boat which headed south. It is not surprising then that the Aztec, if only briefly, believed that bearded, pale-skinned people arriving in large boats, might be Quetzalcoatl & company. The clincher in all of this is that Moctezuma II presented 2 large gold calanders to Cortés as a gift. Cortés had them melted down into blocks. Why would he give Cortés calendars? Unless of course, these were to appease "Quetzalcoatl" and to say: "We haven't forgotten what you taught us." Quetzalcoatl was credited with instructing the Aztec in all aspects of mathematics & astronomy. A calendar would be a logical gift. See: Hancock, Graham "Fingerprints of the Gods" chapter 14. Thewayofthegunn ( talk) 01:57, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
That's a very spurious flimsy interpretation of events that took place. There's little evidence or information on what sort of gifts were given. But assuming it’s true, it might have been what were traditionally given and not hold any particular significance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.117.190 ( talk) 15:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
This really needs an image, can anyone find a useable one? HighInBC 01:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Three artifacts and a photo from 1964 of Quetzacoatl are available. They can be veiwed at http://callyourownufo.blogspot.com Getreal 01:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Charles
In this article, it had the word P**** in it.... My class is doing a report right now, and there are many young children looking at this, and I think you should consider revising this. Thank you. Penis is not a bad word, what kind of education are you giving your children?
NOTICE: This IP address is used by over 600 people, so please think about this. WE NEED THIS SITE! DO NOT BLOCK US! Thank you.
Well, I was just suggesting that you could change it or somthing, especially the link. Quite a few people clicked on it and got suspended.... :Person:
Actually, yes, there is not only that (but the program doesn't work to well), but a few other programs to tell what you go on.... And some staff members from the school thought they were going on bad website or something... Thanks. :Person:
So I see you have changed it. Thank you very much.
How stupid is that? Penis is a part of the human body- nothing to be offended/ashamed of! What? Don't you guys have Sex Ed? Geez!
The word "penis" shoud not be censored any more than the word "vulva" or "hand" or "nose" or "foot". It's just a body part! -john
Somebody has placed a few immature fragments amidst the text; would somebody clean that up? I can't figure out how to otherwise I would. Just search for the word "booogus" and "haveing". Yes, perhaps a bored child (I hope). Nice page otherwise, appreciate the knowledge.
65.81.145.48 ( talk) 06:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
The name comes from two words: quetzal meaning "something beautiful/precious" thus represented as a feather and the second word they used was suppouse to mean twin, which is pronounce "cuatl" by the nahoas, not having a simbol for it they choosed the "coatl", the snake, for it's similar pronunciation resulting on "beautiful twin" or "precious twin"
This is for the dual nature of the god, which was the representation of the morning and the evening star, later on the nahoa culture conquered the quiche and mayan, imposing their own religion, where the mayan translated the name literally and not as the original idea which was already lost, for they were conquered for warriors not priests
On the other hand, the leyend of Quetzalcoatl returning was not an omen, but a story the wise men told to teach the cycle of the morning/evening star- the site below can explain it better http://www.johnpratt.com/items/astronomy/eve_morn.html
Now, Moctezuma was a former priest, it's unlikely the he could confuse the story with an omen, maybe Doña Marina, who may have been familiar with the story, told it to Cortez and he interpreted it as he pleased
If Moctezuma showed great respect for Cortez, was simply because the spaniards had defeated all the tribes who opposed'em and survived every ambush they set upon them
And let's not forget that the spaniards came under attack even as they were guests of Cortez (not Cortez himself, but a camp/colony he left behind) and that Moctezuma while being his prisoner attempted to betrayed him with a fleet that came from Cuba to arrest Cortez for he was in conflict with the governor of the island, this is why he sent the gold of Moctezuma from Mexico to Spain instead of from Cuba, which was the Spanish head colony at the time
Without nothing else to add I'd like to appologize for my orthography, cose english is not my mother tongue
best regards: Edgar Briones Palomo edgar_briones@hotmail.com
I removed:
Ketsalkoatl would be a possible modern spelling, but the speakers of the modern Nahuatl dialects don't worship Quetzalcoatl. In the language of the people who did worship Quetzalcoatl, Classical Nahuatl, it is spelled Quetzalcoatl, the same as English and Spanish. -- Ptcamn 01:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed this phrase "although the idea that he was Jesus ignores the long history of the cult" because it seemed to violate the neutrality standards.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.187.0.164 ( talk • contribs) 22 July 2006.
Someone should add the IPA pronunciation for "Quetzalcoatl". Mo-Al 20:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The reason being that Quetzalcoatl called one man, to whom he gave his rights, privileges, and powers, to administer in his religious duties who took on the name of the Deity, to show that the power had been given to him -- This from the "Cult" section of the article. In my readings on Quetzalcoatl I have not yet run into a reference of this incident. I suggest the line be removed unless someone can find a valid reference. -- Mapache 03:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
If any of these "references" are relevant they should be put in the text. Most of them are not however, neither informative, noteworthy or interesting. I have cut the section from the article per Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles and suggest than any relevant material be worked into the actual text.
I fashion my crown from Quetzalcoatl's quills
Build my palace in the jungles of Brazil
In the summertime come my children
For I hail Draco, king of dragon men
The late Cretaceous pterodactyloid Pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus was named after Quetzalcoatl.
Maunus 14:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Some Mormon guy told me that Mormons believe Quetzacoatl was Jesus which seems to be the case:
Quetzalcóatl is the name of Jesus as recorded by the Aztecs. The Maya and the Quichés referred to Jesus as Kukulkán and Gucumatz.
Mormon scriptures unearthed in the most ancient of ruins of Teotihuacán predict Jesus' first coming as a snake-god clad in precious feathers. This is often cited my Mormon scholars as further evidence that the book of mormon is true (as if it were needed). [1]
So that should be put in. I don't know where to put it though. -- 24.57.157.81 21:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be best to have this page link to a new page such as Quetzalcoatl as Jesus or something. Despite the beliefs of the Mormons, this article refers to the god of the Olmec, Toltec, Maya and Aztec mythologies. I very much doubt the Maya believe that they were one entity, and it could be deemed offensive to their culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tranquilo man ( talk • contribs)
I'd have to disagree with splitting this off. While it should be handled with care it belongs as part of this article if this article is going to have a "in modern times" section at all. Yes, it can be offensive to some but is it really any more offensive than Christians claiming Jesus is the Jewish Messiah? Or Muslims claiming Jesus is "merely" a one of the prophets? Any discussion of religion risks offending someone. The key isn't pretending it isn't so, the key is exercising restraint and appropriate labeling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.150.188 ( talk) 00:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be a good idea to make this page specifically about the Aztec god, and separate the info about serpent-gods in Mesoamerica in general into another article. Thoughts? -- Ptcamn 22:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I also vote for the split. Perhaps adding a "feathered snake god" disambig would also be a good idea. The section about Mormons should definately be a separate article, and could easily be linked to in any of the deities articles. ~ MagicChelle
I have removed the first 2 sentences of this section as they are un-cited. -- Bill W. Smith, Jr. ( talk/ contribs) 16:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
First off that is just too long of a title. Second off, I think the proper way to address this is New Age and Neopaganism. As you can see Quetzalcoatl is very popular in "New Age".
Xuchilbara 17:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
it doesn't really need to be split. For someone like me who was searching for any and all info about Quetzalcoatl, this was pretty much what I wanted. Enough to know where to look for more, and not so much I was exhausted before I finished reading. Leave it alone as far as making it less informative goes. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.27.219.131 (
talk) 14:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Manus. Maybe a small section on this one, that also links to the main New Age side would be a great idea.
Xuchilbara 19:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe the article should have a disambiguation page separating the creation god, from the warrior god, and from the various leaders that took the name Quetzalcoatl on themselves. 68.18.115.56 ( talk) 22:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)RoyalE
It is questionable and unencylopedic to make such an assertion in the lede, and offer as citation, only "Boone, p. 68." Please quote the citation. 70.248.202.145 ( talk) 17:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
References
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was always under the assumption that Quetzocoatl was a human ruler who merged with a blue serpent to form a diety that created all civilization by means of agriculture (maiz). He was disgraced by his people because of drunkeness and immorality so he left them, heading for the East. The Aztecs believed that he would return from the East on a floating mountain or floating house (which is why the arrival of Cortez confused Montezuma II). Do I have something wrong here? HopieG ( talk) 19:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Claro. Ok thank you! I will look into this a little further.- HopieG * Green Day's Biggest Fan 20:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HopieG ( talk • contribs)
Hola otra vez:
I have been studying Aztec and Maya mythology for several months now (since I moved to Mexico last year) and I have never heard of Quetzacoatl being associated with the planet Venus. I would like to see some proof of this (perhaps a link to a site or something). Muchas gracias HopieG * Green Day's Biggest Fan 20:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
"Around 3113 B.C. according to texts of ancient Sumerian cuneiform tablets, the Egyption God Thoth was exiled from Egypt by a sort of troublemaking rival named Marduk who wanted above all else to be the supreme God of Earth. Thoth as many know, designed and built the Great Pyramid. All of this according to brilliant scholar of the cuneiform tablet writings (of which there are many thousands relating the stories of ancient gods and goddesses) Dr. Zecharia Sitchin whose book The Lost Realms tells of the story of the arrival in La Venta of this god Thoth accompanied by his African helpers, obviously of negroe lineage, either warriors or miners. According to data mentioned in this monograph so-called Quezalcoatl brought a certain amount of civilization including corn and the calendar. These African persons are shown doing mining using a strange flame-thrower like device. At any rate they became the Olmecs and were one of the earliest civilized peoples in that area. The "smoking gun", other than the prognathous features of the great head sculpures, was a vase made in the shape of an elephant, when there has never been an elephant population in Mexico. But when Dr. Sitchin pointed this out, the Museum quickly hid the ancient artifact from view. Thoth is also described in connection with a serpent which is a symbol and definition of a wise person. Thoth was one of he wisest of the Egyptian pantheons. having power of life and death according to the tablets. According to Dr. Sitchin, Thoth eventually became known as "Quesalcoatl" the winged feathered serpent. Thoth instituted the first calendar in Mesoamerica starting in 3113 B.C. which is the date he arrived. Thoth was the reigning deity in Egypt at that time and Marduk wanted to be the head god, so that is where the conflict started." Jhaerlyn ( talk) 18:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
In English, "would" tends to be a marker for the subjunctive and, as with many of the comments in the discussion, tends to mark something either in the future or something that is not 100% certain. Therefore in the paragraphs about the various cultures like Toltec, if they conflated Quetzalcoatl with their own gods, this either definitely happened in the past or it "might have" happened. Suggest changing "would" in these places to an indicative past tense or to "might have." 4.249.198.252 ( talk) 19:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}} Under the 'Alternative Interpretations' section in the Quetzalcoatl article, it suggests that the LDS Church has corrupted the account of Jesus Christ. Being an LDS Christian, this is pretty offensive to me and to the 13+ million other Mormons around the world. I would appreciate it if somebody would edit this, to make the article sound somewhat unbiased. For example, 'corruption' could be changed to 'addition.' Thanks. Richinsk ( talk) 01:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello all,
I recently joined Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check and stumbled across the article here. I want to explain my edits and first say that I know very little about the subject, so I hope I haven't stepped on any toes here. Just trying to be bold and increase the quality.
I noticed a bad disputed tag from a user User:Rudraksha108 and changed it so it would format correctly, but I had to guess a little bit about what their complaint was and I moved it to a more appropriate place.
I found several cites backing up the statement that Quetzalcoatl opposed human sacrifice. If more are needed or if the scholar I chose is not reputable, please let me know as there are many others.
I was unable to find any cites regarding the "Mexicanistas" in English and though I can read Spanish, I'm not entirely fluent and it's late. I hope someone else can provide a citation for these
I changed the words around in the statement about Moctemzuma/Cortes. I'm guessing from reading the discussion above that this may be controversial. This statement was uncited and I found copious cites to back up my wording so I added one. I'm happy to add more cites or, if people can provided contradictory cites, add the controversy to Wikipedia disputes.
I'm very tempted to add something to the Mormonism section, though again, it is clear this is controversial and needs more discussion before I do so. However, it is clear that Quetzalcoatl does show up in Mormon literature and, in my opinion, that issue merits mention in this article. We just have to make sure we get it right. -- Uwishiwazjohng ( talk) 07:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
There ought to be more research on links between Quetzacoatl and Thoth. The idea in comparative religion is that Quetzacoatl is a Meso-American version of Thoth, while Thoth is merely an incarnation of Enoch. Therefore, since Enoch has a close relationship with Jesus, we can say that there can be a real interfaith dialogue between indigenous religions and Christianity. ADM ( talk) 15:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a little put off by this section about the supposed controversy of the quezcoatl/cortes issue. There is no controvery. There is established historical record. Instead, you have some fringe nobodies, who possibly wrote this wiki section, who have inserted nothing but speculative garbage. Just because most sources come from the spanish means nothing other than their objectivity to be questioned. Nonetheess, if you have no contemporary proof you cannoy assert everything the spanish wrote was complete fiction and propaganda, like this section maintains. In short, the section the highly biased and should probably be removedm, with a single paragraph of a revisionist view of this incident in history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.190.29.150 ( talk) 17:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I've reworked the citations and biography that was in a confusingly mixed style. I have added several of sources that wil be important to implement the necessary improvements to the articles contents. Important are the seminal work of H.B. Nicholson and David Carrasco who represent the "historicist" tradition and the "revisionist" responses by Restall (the review of Nicholson), Townsend, Gillespie and Florescano. Equally important for reconstructing the history of quetzalcoatl worship is the article by Ringle et al. about the spread of quetzalcoatl worship throughout mesoamerica in the epi-classic period. I will begin to undertake the reworking of the page shortly. ·Maunus·ƛ· 20:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Below is my proposal for a new article structure:
·Maunus·ƛ· 03:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have noticed that an etymology of the word "Quetzalcoatl" is missing and the definition that is given in the begining of the article is sketchy while I have seen people challenge this etymology of "feathered serpent." Coatl does mean "serpent" but the tricky part is in the prefix Quetzal- which does not always mean "feathered" exclusively since in some context it means the bird by that same name while in another it can mean just one feather or a set of them. The word Quetzal comes from "quetzalli" (quetza- + -lli) and that word comes from "quetzac" which means: "to stand up." Following this train of reasoning, then, Quetzalcoatl would have somewhat the definition of: "Standing Serpent" or "Upright Serpent." Check with these references:
I'm curious as to whether a section —or separate article— ought to be created comparing Quetzalcoatl with the Inca deity Viracocha.
At first glance, they seem to share many similar traits:
--They both arrived and left via the waterways. --They are both described as having white skin, and bushy beards. --They are both also described as pacifists hailing from a primeval age, following a great flood or other cataclysmic event.
Could this be enough to start a new Wikipedia topic exploring new dimensions to the Quetzalcoatl myth? I mean, there already is a section on LDS dogma on him apropos Jesus Christ. A possible connection with Viracocha is clearly no bigger a leap. Pine ( talk) 01:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the prompt replies!
Let me first say that this conversation has greatly opened my eyes. I never should have guessed that the similarities I mentioned concerning Quetzalcoatl & Viracocha were first spoken of after Columbus. As a side note, the articles on both Viracocha and Hopi mythology (concerning Pahana) also cast doubt on said traits. I am not convinced, though, that cross-references of historical figures —and qualities attributed to them over time, that are well documented— constitute Original Research. I do agree, however, that Wikipedia is definitely not the place for speculation or hypotheses.
Do either of you believe that maybe there ought to be a Wikibook listing and comparing these likely post-Columbian embellishments of pre-Columbian figures? It might actually serve an academic purpose. Pine ( talk) 00:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
It was the aztec people that belived that. The Aztec Emperor knew that Hernan cortes was a messenger from another king from a faraway land. He just failed to realise that the message was to take him prisoner and take over his empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.103.12 ( talk) 18:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi I just realised that there is a feathered serpent page /info/en/?search=Feathered_Serpent that seems very similar, any reason for why they are not merged? Zakster22` ( talk) 09:47, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't this section be removed as WP:FRINGE?
Feathered dinosaurs are no longer fringe theory, please either add a link in see also or info on theories they saw live dinos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.192.14.161 ( talk) 04:55, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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Although now many people seem to think that "native americans" stop at the borders of the contiguous USA, the reality is that thanks to extensive trade networks there was a strong and consistent level of interaction between various regions of mesoamerica and the US. Particularly, the Southwest comes to mind, and serpents such as Avanyu and Palulukang. With Palulukang specifically, it is worth noting that several Hopi clans hail originally from what is now Mexico, and as such could have brought aspects of the Mesoamerican feathered serpent with them, hence the connection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lil dogbear ( talk • contribs) 05:08, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
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I added a reference and some language denoting that the name Quetzalcoatl is excessively difficult to separate from various ancient leaders and the ancient sky-god. 68.18.115.56 ( talk) 22:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)RoyalE
Can someone who knows something about this put in the standard pronunciation of Quetzalcoatl - it is hardly a common sequence of characters in english and I for one have no idea how to say it! HyDeckar 13:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
ket-zal-ko-a-teh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.253.241.90 ( talk) 02:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Its Kehts-coh-aht, the "tl" 'silent- at least the "l" is. Online version of his name sounded out here: http://members.aol.com/maroic/quetz.wav Xuchilbara 23:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I'm mexican, and I can proudly tell you nahuatl is my mother language. First of all, you need to know there are several nahuatl dialects among us mexicans. I highly suggest you Orizaba's nahuatl. In Mexico we call it the high level nahuatl. We know there are a lot of mistakes in the others. For example: The word "Huey-TL-alpan" among the others is pronounced "Huey-T-alpan" which is clearly mistaken, because it came from: Huey(big or in this case Mountain's top), and TLal-li(that is earth or in this case place). If you pronounce it T-alli, it has no sense. Now, the TL in high level nahuatl is mute. Let me explain you clearer, how would you say in english S-H(sh), and then the T-H(th)? Then how would you say LH? Follow me? When you say the TL in nahuatl actually you should say TLH. Now, the word "Quetzalcoatl" is pronounced KE-TZAL(the tz is strong as in German)COHUA-TLH. Another mistake among the other nahuatl dialects is that they say kOAtlh instead of kOHUAtlh.
Now, it is amazing, but even between mexicans nobody knows or mentions the philosophical meaning of the concept eagle-feathered. You must know the eagle among the Aztec people was the soul, and then the snake was the body. In other words it was the fight between trascendental world against none trascendental world, the spiritual world against the material world. We say the gods tided both in one fight. Only by diying while fighting against the material, your soul would sprout like a flower into a new iluminated form of life and Xochipilli "the lord of the flowers" would receive your soul's sprout. That is why the flowerish battles among aztec people.
I recomend to you guys the book of Laurette Sejourne called "Thought and religion in ancient Mexico". This book suited indeed my demands. Ciao
I changed the "In archeology" section title to "In paleontology". This section is pretty weak and could possibly be removed altogether. Nevertheless it is potentially worthwhile to link to an important paleospecies which derives its name from the MesoAmerican deity. Thoughts?
For clarity, I removed a statement about juvenile quetzals having vestigial claws "like pterosaurs". Bird wings and pterosaur wings are, broadly speaking, non-homologous, except at the base level of derived tetropod forelimb and any comparison between the two is misleading. Also, I'm pretty sure that the author was probably confusing another South American bird the hoatzin whose juvenile stage is well known to express two claws. Anyone with information about vestigal claws in the Quetzal should repost it with proper citation.
I removed the sentance at the end of the last paragraph reading "He was believed to be originally Aztec." Believed by who? This doesn't make sence to me. The Feathered Serpent Deity is pan-MesoAmerican, going back to the pre-Classic, centuries before the Aztec are known to have existed as a distinct people. -- User:Infrogmation
I changed the spelling of Texcatlipoca to the more common Tezcatlipoca. When I have the time though I'd like to add a lot more comprehensive stuff about the devision between Ehecatl and Topiltzin, and have pages about the entire Topiltzin epic including Mixcoatl and Huemac. -- Erosenfield
Just refining some of the information: Quetzalcoatl was the morning star Venus, whereas his brother, Xolotl was the evening star Venus. As the morning star, Quetzalcoatl was known as Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli (say that three times fast).
The "serpent" depicted in Yaxchilan Lintel 25 is NOT considered to be that of Quetzalcoatl/Kukulcan/"feathered serpent". Rather, it is a "vision serpent" out of whose mouth is emerging a warrior/god, probably an impersonation by the Yaxchilan ruler "Shield Jaguar" a.k.a., Itzamnaaj B'alam II. If anything, the "god" that is depicted here is Tlaloc, the Aztec/ Teotihuacan god of Storm/Rain/Warrior. The "vision" is created through the bloodletting sacrifice of the women depicted next to the serpent, Lady K'ab'al Xook, wife of Shield Jaguar. In another lintel, she is depicted pulling a barbed rope through a hole in her tongue. Furthermore, since this page is on Quetzalcoatl, which is strictly speaking a Central Mexican, and more specifically Aztec, diety, the image should also be Aztec. There are Maya depictions of what is generally considered the equivalent diety, Kukulcan, but putting that up on this page would be akin to posting an image of Jupiter (god) on the page for Zeus. I wish I could provide a link to an image of Quetzalcoatl in the public domain, but I can't. If I do come across one, I will come back. See Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube (2000) "Chronicles of the Maya Kings and Queens" page 125 for further info on Yaxchilan Lintel 25 Rawhead
What would people worship quetzalcoatl for? and what would they give as a sacrifice?
There is some (not insignificant) discussion of Quetzalcoatl initiating the banishment of human sacrifice. The Deity's association with a Jesus-like character is consistent with this, and sacrifices are inconsistent with the new paradigm of consciousness that Quetzalcoatl initiated (ie. spirtual, love-based consciousness rather than fear-based sacrificial consciousness) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.106.65.148 ( talk) 14:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
No, Sabrinaneo, Huitzilopochtli and others were the main human-sacrificers. It was a part of Aztec legend that Quetzalcoatl refused human sacrifices, and instead only wanted small animals like Butterflies, frogs, etc.Quetzalcoatl himself was a Creator God, Wind God, God od the Morning Star, and patron of various other things. 68.98.14.19 ( talk) 17:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I changed the short paragraph stating that Moctezuma believed Cortes to be the returning Quetzalcoatl to reflect modern (post-1970) research on the topic. Really, no one believes anymore that anybody worshipped Cortes as a god for any significant length of time. Any worship that may have existed was cut short real quick when Cortes and his men captured Moctezuma (if he was so willing to hand over the city to a returning god, why did he have to be captured?), attacked a group of unarmed, dancing celebrants, and stopped on their way out to grab the treasure from the temples (see Bernal Diaz del Castillo).
Wasn't Quetzalcoatl expected to return as a white god? Some groups, such as the LDS see this as evidence that Christ visited America
I...zach harris believe that the Aztecs believed Quetzalcoatl was Jesus Christ
Uh...well, thats probably incorrect "Zach".
The article states that Quetzalcoatl called 12 men to reign in his stead, yet no citations are listed. As Zach pointed out, some people believe Quetzalcoatl to be Jesus Christ and it is highly probably that the aforementioned statement was added to give more credibility to certain religious beliefs rather than having been based on fact. Can anyone cite any credible references of Quetzalcoatl calling 12 men to reign in his stead?
ugh...look pal, Quetzalcoatl was the "white god" or his color association was "white". Jesus on the other hand was probably black or dark-skinned despite his "European Look". I mean- it happens all the time. Look at Juan Diego a Native American of Mexico- why do they depict him as a Euro-Spanish look? Hmmm...I wonder...
Jesus skin-color regardless, Quetsalcoatl is believed to be the mesoamerican interpretation of Christ. The fact that Quetzalcoatl itself existed before Christ is explained by the fact that Christ was spoken of before His first coming to the Earth (Genesis 3:15 KJV is the first I've come across, referring to Christ as a son of Eve who shall smite the head of Satan, a reference to the belief that Christ atoned for all sins, setting back Satan's plans to lead away the children of men). The inclusion of the LDS interpretation is completely understandable, and its inclusion into this article is not as partisan as some believe.21:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)Sagittarius Flame
My understanding of Quetzalcoatl and his "Whiteness" or lack there of is often in the same context of "is Jesus white? black? how about Cleopatra?" However, the only viable argument I have ever heard was from a local Professor who stated that it is quite possible that he would be considered returning as something akin to white, due to their knowledge of prisms, color, or a combination of both. That being said, outside of the fantastical beliefs of the LDS, I am sure that it would just add gas to an unusable fire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.227.246.145 ( talk) 01:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
It's not so much the Cortés believed himself to be a God, it's that when Quetzalcoatl was banished, he vowed that if he ever returned, he would destroy the Aztec. Quetzalcoatl was described as fair skinned & bearded, and when he departed he left in a boat which headed south. It is not surprising then that the Aztec, if only briefly, believed that bearded, pale-skinned people arriving in large boats, might be Quetzalcoatl & company. The clincher in all of this is that Moctezuma II presented 2 large gold calanders to Cortés as a gift. Cortés had them melted down into blocks. Why would he give Cortés calendars? Unless of course, these were to appease "Quetzalcoatl" and to say: "We haven't forgotten what you taught us." Quetzalcoatl was credited with instructing the Aztec in all aspects of mathematics & astronomy. A calendar would be a logical gift. See: Hancock, Graham "Fingerprints of the Gods" chapter 14. Thewayofthegunn ( talk) 01:57, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
That's a very spurious flimsy interpretation of events that took place. There's little evidence or information on what sort of gifts were given. But assuming it’s true, it might have been what were traditionally given and not hold any particular significance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.117.190 ( talk) 15:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
This really needs an image, can anyone find a useable one? HighInBC 01:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Three artifacts and a photo from 1964 of Quetzacoatl are available. They can be veiwed at http://callyourownufo.blogspot.com Getreal 01:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Charles
In this article, it had the word P**** in it.... My class is doing a report right now, and there are many young children looking at this, and I think you should consider revising this. Thank you. Penis is not a bad word, what kind of education are you giving your children?
NOTICE: This IP address is used by over 600 people, so please think about this. WE NEED THIS SITE! DO NOT BLOCK US! Thank you.
Well, I was just suggesting that you could change it or somthing, especially the link. Quite a few people clicked on it and got suspended.... :Person:
Actually, yes, there is not only that (but the program doesn't work to well), but a few other programs to tell what you go on.... And some staff members from the school thought they were going on bad website or something... Thanks. :Person:
So I see you have changed it. Thank you very much.
How stupid is that? Penis is a part of the human body- nothing to be offended/ashamed of! What? Don't you guys have Sex Ed? Geez!
The word "penis" shoud not be censored any more than the word "vulva" or "hand" or "nose" or "foot". It's just a body part! -john
Somebody has placed a few immature fragments amidst the text; would somebody clean that up? I can't figure out how to otherwise I would. Just search for the word "booogus" and "haveing". Yes, perhaps a bored child (I hope). Nice page otherwise, appreciate the knowledge.
65.81.145.48 ( talk) 06:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
The name comes from two words: quetzal meaning "something beautiful/precious" thus represented as a feather and the second word they used was suppouse to mean twin, which is pronounce "cuatl" by the nahoas, not having a simbol for it they choosed the "coatl", the snake, for it's similar pronunciation resulting on "beautiful twin" or "precious twin"
This is for the dual nature of the god, which was the representation of the morning and the evening star, later on the nahoa culture conquered the quiche and mayan, imposing their own religion, where the mayan translated the name literally and not as the original idea which was already lost, for they were conquered for warriors not priests
On the other hand, the leyend of Quetzalcoatl returning was not an omen, but a story the wise men told to teach the cycle of the morning/evening star- the site below can explain it better http://www.johnpratt.com/items/astronomy/eve_morn.html
Now, Moctezuma was a former priest, it's unlikely the he could confuse the story with an omen, maybe Doña Marina, who may have been familiar with the story, told it to Cortez and he interpreted it as he pleased
If Moctezuma showed great respect for Cortez, was simply because the spaniards had defeated all the tribes who opposed'em and survived every ambush they set upon them
And let's not forget that the spaniards came under attack even as they were guests of Cortez (not Cortez himself, but a camp/colony he left behind) and that Moctezuma while being his prisoner attempted to betrayed him with a fleet that came from Cuba to arrest Cortez for he was in conflict with the governor of the island, this is why he sent the gold of Moctezuma from Mexico to Spain instead of from Cuba, which was the Spanish head colony at the time
Without nothing else to add I'd like to appologize for my orthography, cose english is not my mother tongue
best regards: Edgar Briones Palomo edgar_briones@hotmail.com
I removed:
Ketsalkoatl would be a possible modern spelling, but the speakers of the modern Nahuatl dialects don't worship Quetzalcoatl. In the language of the people who did worship Quetzalcoatl, Classical Nahuatl, it is spelled Quetzalcoatl, the same as English and Spanish. -- Ptcamn 01:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed this phrase "although the idea that he was Jesus ignores the long history of the cult" because it seemed to violate the neutrality standards.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.187.0.164 ( talk • contribs) 22 July 2006.
Someone should add the IPA pronunciation for "Quetzalcoatl". Mo-Al 20:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The reason being that Quetzalcoatl called one man, to whom he gave his rights, privileges, and powers, to administer in his religious duties who took on the name of the Deity, to show that the power had been given to him -- This from the "Cult" section of the article. In my readings on Quetzalcoatl I have not yet run into a reference of this incident. I suggest the line be removed unless someone can find a valid reference. -- Mapache 03:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
If any of these "references" are relevant they should be put in the text. Most of them are not however, neither informative, noteworthy or interesting. I have cut the section from the article per Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles and suggest than any relevant material be worked into the actual text.
I fashion my crown from Quetzalcoatl's quills
Build my palace in the jungles of Brazil
In the summertime come my children
For I hail Draco, king of dragon men
The late Cretaceous pterodactyloid Pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus was named after Quetzalcoatl.
Maunus 14:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Some Mormon guy told me that Mormons believe Quetzacoatl was Jesus which seems to be the case:
Quetzalcóatl is the name of Jesus as recorded by the Aztecs. The Maya and the Quichés referred to Jesus as Kukulkán and Gucumatz.
Mormon scriptures unearthed in the most ancient of ruins of Teotihuacán predict Jesus' first coming as a snake-god clad in precious feathers. This is often cited my Mormon scholars as further evidence that the book of mormon is true (as if it were needed). [1]
So that should be put in. I don't know where to put it though. -- 24.57.157.81 21:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be best to have this page link to a new page such as Quetzalcoatl as Jesus or something. Despite the beliefs of the Mormons, this article refers to the god of the Olmec, Toltec, Maya and Aztec mythologies. I very much doubt the Maya believe that they were one entity, and it could be deemed offensive to their culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tranquilo man ( talk • contribs)
I'd have to disagree with splitting this off. While it should be handled with care it belongs as part of this article if this article is going to have a "in modern times" section at all. Yes, it can be offensive to some but is it really any more offensive than Christians claiming Jesus is the Jewish Messiah? Or Muslims claiming Jesus is "merely" a one of the prophets? Any discussion of religion risks offending someone. The key isn't pretending it isn't so, the key is exercising restraint and appropriate labeling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.150.188 ( talk) 00:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be a good idea to make this page specifically about the Aztec god, and separate the info about serpent-gods in Mesoamerica in general into another article. Thoughts? -- Ptcamn 22:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I also vote for the split. Perhaps adding a "feathered snake god" disambig would also be a good idea. The section about Mormons should definately be a separate article, and could easily be linked to in any of the deities articles. ~ MagicChelle
I have removed the first 2 sentences of this section as they are un-cited. -- Bill W. Smith, Jr. ( talk/ contribs) 16:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
First off that is just too long of a title. Second off, I think the proper way to address this is New Age and Neopaganism. As you can see Quetzalcoatl is very popular in "New Age".
Xuchilbara 17:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
it doesn't really need to be split. For someone like me who was searching for any and all info about Quetzalcoatl, this was pretty much what I wanted. Enough to know where to look for more, and not so much I was exhausted before I finished reading. Leave it alone as far as making it less informative goes. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.27.219.131 (
talk) 14:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Manus. Maybe a small section on this one, that also links to the main New Age side would be a great idea.
Xuchilbara 19:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe the article should have a disambiguation page separating the creation god, from the warrior god, and from the various leaders that took the name Quetzalcoatl on themselves. 68.18.115.56 ( talk) 22:00, 30 April 2008 (UTC)RoyalE
It is questionable and unencylopedic to make such an assertion in the lede, and offer as citation, only "Boone, p. 68." Please quote the citation. 70.248.202.145 ( talk) 17:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
References
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was always under the assumption that Quetzocoatl was a human ruler who merged with a blue serpent to form a diety that created all civilization by means of agriculture (maiz). He was disgraced by his people because of drunkeness and immorality so he left them, heading for the East. The Aztecs believed that he would return from the East on a floating mountain or floating house (which is why the arrival of Cortez confused Montezuma II). Do I have something wrong here? HopieG ( talk) 19:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Claro. Ok thank you! I will look into this a little further.- HopieG * Green Day's Biggest Fan 20:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by HopieG ( talk • contribs)
Hola otra vez:
I have been studying Aztec and Maya mythology for several months now (since I moved to Mexico last year) and I have never heard of Quetzacoatl being associated with the planet Venus. I would like to see some proof of this (perhaps a link to a site or something). Muchas gracias HopieG * Green Day's Biggest Fan 20:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
"Around 3113 B.C. according to texts of ancient Sumerian cuneiform tablets, the Egyption God Thoth was exiled from Egypt by a sort of troublemaking rival named Marduk who wanted above all else to be the supreme God of Earth. Thoth as many know, designed and built the Great Pyramid. All of this according to brilliant scholar of the cuneiform tablet writings (of which there are many thousands relating the stories of ancient gods and goddesses) Dr. Zecharia Sitchin whose book The Lost Realms tells of the story of the arrival in La Venta of this god Thoth accompanied by his African helpers, obviously of negroe lineage, either warriors or miners. According to data mentioned in this monograph so-called Quezalcoatl brought a certain amount of civilization including corn and the calendar. These African persons are shown doing mining using a strange flame-thrower like device. At any rate they became the Olmecs and were one of the earliest civilized peoples in that area. The "smoking gun", other than the prognathous features of the great head sculpures, was a vase made in the shape of an elephant, when there has never been an elephant population in Mexico. But when Dr. Sitchin pointed this out, the Museum quickly hid the ancient artifact from view. Thoth is also described in connection with a serpent which is a symbol and definition of a wise person. Thoth was one of he wisest of the Egyptian pantheons. having power of life and death according to the tablets. According to Dr. Sitchin, Thoth eventually became known as "Quesalcoatl" the winged feathered serpent. Thoth instituted the first calendar in Mesoamerica starting in 3113 B.C. which is the date he arrived. Thoth was the reigning deity in Egypt at that time and Marduk wanted to be the head god, so that is where the conflict started." Jhaerlyn ( talk) 18:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
In English, "would" tends to be a marker for the subjunctive and, as with many of the comments in the discussion, tends to mark something either in the future or something that is not 100% certain. Therefore in the paragraphs about the various cultures like Toltec, if they conflated Quetzalcoatl with their own gods, this either definitely happened in the past or it "might have" happened. Suggest changing "would" in these places to an indicative past tense or to "might have." 4.249.198.252 ( talk) 19:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}} Under the 'Alternative Interpretations' section in the Quetzalcoatl article, it suggests that the LDS Church has corrupted the account of Jesus Christ. Being an LDS Christian, this is pretty offensive to me and to the 13+ million other Mormons around the world. I would appreciate it if somebody would edit this, to make the article sound somewhat unbiased. For example, 'corruption' could be changed to 'addition.' Thanks. Richinsk ( talk) 01:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello all,
I recently joined Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check and stumbled across the article here. I want to explain my edits and first say that I know very little about the subject, so I hope I haven't stepped on any toes here. Just trying to be bold and increase the quality.
I noticed a bad disputed tag from a user User:Rudraksha108 and changed it so it would format correctly, but I had to guess a little bit about what their complaint was and I moved it to a more appropriate place.
I found several cites backing up the statement that Quetzalcoatl opposed human sacrifice. If more are needed or if the scholar I chose is not reputable, please let me know as there are many others.
I was unable to find any cites regarding the "Mexicanistas" in English and though I can read Spanish, I'm not entirely fluent and it's late. I hope someone else can provide a citation for these
I changed the words around in the statement about Moctemzuma/Cortes. I'm guessing from reading the discussion above that this may be controversial. This statement was uncited and I found copious cites to back up my wording so I added one. I'm happy to add more cites or, if people can provided contradictory cites, add the controversy to Wikipedia disputes.
I'm very tempted to add something to the Mormonism section, though again, it is clear this is controversial and needs more discussion before I do so. However, it is clear that Quetzalcoatl does show up in Mormon literature and, in my opinion, that issue merits mention in this article. We just have to make sure we get it right. -- Uwishiwazjohng ( talk) 07:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
There ought to be more research on links between Quetzacoatl and Thoth. The idea in comparative religion is that Quetzacoatl is a Meso-American version of Thoth, while Thoth is merely an incarnation of Enoch. Therefore, since Enoch has a close relationship with Jesus, we can say that there can be a real interfaith dialogue between indigenous religions and Christianity. ADM ( talk) 15:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a little put off by this section about the supposed controversy of the quezcoatl/cortes issue. There is no controvery. There is established historical record. Instead, you have some fringe nobodies, who possibly wrote this wiki section, who have inserted nothing but speculative garbage. Just because most sources come from the spanish means nothing other than their objectivity to be questioned. Nonetheess, if you have no contemporary proof you cannoy assert everything the spanish wrote was complete fiction and propaganda, like this section maintains. In short, the section the highly biased and should probably be removedm, with a single paragraph of a revisionist view of this incident in history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.190.29.150 ( talk) 17:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I've reworked the citations and biography that was in a confusingly mixed style. I have added several of sources that wil be important to implement the necessary improvements to the articles contents. Important are the seminal work of H.B. Nicholson and David Carrasco who represent the "historicist" tradition and the "revisionist" responses by Restall (the review of Nicholson), Townsend, Gillespie and Florescano. Equally important for reconstructing the history of quetzalcoatl worship is the article by Ringle et al. about the spread of quetzalcoatl worship throughout mesoamerica in the epi-classic period. I will begin to undertake the reworking of the page shortly. ·Maunus·ƛ· 20:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Below is my proposal for a new article structure:
·Maunus·ƛ· 03:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I have noticed that an etymology of the word "Quetzalcoatl" is missing and the definition that is given in the begining of the article is sketchy while I have seen people challenge this etymology of "feathered serpent." Coatl does mean "serpent" but the tricky part is in the prefix Quetzal- which does not always mean "feathered" exclusively since in some context it means the bird by that same name while in another it can mean just one feather or a set of them. The word Quetzal comes from "quetzalli" (quetza- + -lli) and that word comes from "quetzac" which means: "to stand up." Following this train of reasoning, then, Quetzalcoatl would have somewhat the definition of: "Standing Serpent" or "Upright Serpent." Check with these references:
I'm curious as to whether a section —or separate article— ought to be created comparing Quetzalcoatl with the Inca deity Viracocha.
At first glance, they seem to share many similar traits:
--They both arrived and left via the waterways. --They are both described as having white skin, and bushy beards. --They are both also described as pacifists hailing from a primeval age, following a great flood or other cataclysmic event.
Could this be enough to start a new Wikipedia topic exploring new dimensions to the Quetzalcoatl myth? I mean, there already is a section on LDS dogma on him apropos Jesus Christ. A possible connection with Viracocha is clearly no bigger a leap. Pine ( talk) 01:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the prompt replies!
Let me first say that this conversation has greatly opened my eyes. I never should have guessed that the similarities I mentioned concerning Quetzalcoatl & Viracocha were first spoken of after Columbus. As a side note, the articles on both Viracocha and Hopi mythology (concerning Pahana) also cast doubt on said traits. I am not convinced, though, that cross-references of historical figures —and qualities attributed to them over time, that are well documented— constitute Original Research. I do agree, however, that Wikipedia is definitely not the place for speculation or hypotheses.
Do either of you believe that maybe there ought to be a Wikibook listing and comparing these likely post-Columbian embellishments of pre-Columbian figures? It might actually serve an academic purpose. Pine ( talk) 00:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
It was the aztec people that belived that. The Aztec Emperor knew that Hernan cortes was a messenger from another king from a faraway land. He just failed to realise that the message was to take him prisoner and take over his empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.103.12 ( talk) 18:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Hi I just realised that there is a feathered serpent page /info/en/?search=Feathered_Serpent that seems very similar, any reason for why they are not merged? Zakster22` ( talk) 09:47, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't this section be removed as WP:FRINGE?
Feathered dinosaurs are no longer fringe theory, please either add a link in see also or info on theories they saw live dinos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.192.14.161 ( talk) 04:55, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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Although now many people seem to think that "native americans" stop at the borders of the contiguous USA, the reality is that thanks to extensive trade networks there was a strong and consistent level of interaction between various regions of mesoamerica and the US. Particularly, the Southwest comes to mind, and serpents such as Avanyu and Palulukang. With Palulukang specifically, it is worth noting that several Hopi clans hail originally from what is now Mexico, and as such could have brought aspects of the Mesoamerican feathered serpent with them, hence the connection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lil dogbear ( talk • contribs) 05:08, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
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