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Quelccaya Ice Cap article. This is
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Because you are mixing use of citation with cite journal, you are getting differences in formatting of page ranges. Switch the citation templates to cite journal or cite web?
Not sure what the =1 is doing here ... "Sicuani, Peru" (Map). Joint Operations Graphic. 1:250,000. National Imagery and Mapping Agencyedition =1. 1996.
"supposedly it can almost be seen from the summit of Quelccaya" feels pretty weasly. If you can tell me the wording from the source, we could work on improvement.
" In 1968, the existence of two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya was reported.[18]" --> Two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya were discovered in 1968 ?? or Two samller ice caps south of Quelccaya were first reported in 1968 ??
The source text is The west-to-east width of the ice capvaries between 3.8 and 1.2 km with sizable embayments atop interfluves, generally following the plateau geometry. on page 71-72 of
this source.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
11:21, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SandyGeorgia:I'd say it's better off where it is as it shows the extent and shape of the ice cap. DTH otherwise. Also, I have developed a convention that I update an article with new sources only once per year, during the Christmas holidays; would it be warranted to break with that convention here?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
18:07, 22 October 2020 (UTC)reply
In geomorphology, the list of lakes contains some full sentences and some sentence fragments. Since they all have final puncutation, maybe they should all be full sentences?
This all needs detangling: "On the western side of Quelccaya these valleys include the Qori Kalis valley northwest of the ice cap, Challpa Cocha valley south of Qori Kalis,[86] the wide and flat Huancané measuring 0.5 kilometres (0.31 mi) and its tributary the "South Fork"[c] valley[37] south of Challpa Cocha valley.[86] The Huancané valley runs southwestwards away from Quelccaya[87] and is occupied by the Huancané River.[88]"
Too many clauses here: Annual precipitation at Quelccaya and the neighbouring Cordillera Vilcanota is about 0.8–1.0 metre per year (2.6–3.3 ft/a), with most of it originating from the Amazon and falling during austral summer[36] during the summer monsoon[106] when high insolation leads to intense convection and showers;[107] the location of the ice cap also generated orographic precipitation. Split at semi-colon? Why past tense? Brief explanation of "orographic precipitation" so reader doesn't have to click out ?
Why not move this to the start of the para, to prepare readers for what the para is about? This is much wetter than most of the tropical Andes, a consequence of Quelccaya's proximity to the Amazon. --> Because of its proximity to the Amazon, Cuelccaya is much wetter than most of the tropical Andes. ... to start the para ... that clues the reader to skip the detail if they aren't interested. I think that sort of thing could improve a lot of your volcano content ... tell the average reader earlier what they are about to read, so they can skim if they don't want the detail.
Way too difficult to get through: Assuming a constant
lapse rate mean temperatures of −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) (−6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F)) and −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) (2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F)) have been inferred for its margin during the dry and wet seasons, respectively. Too many dashes, parens, converts, complicated by a "respectively split". Needs disentangling. I can't really tell what it says ... don't know what number is what, eyes glaze over ... don't know how to fix it, don't know what it says.
Ungrammatical, can't tell what it wants to say ... However, apart of precipitation fluctuations climate at Quelccaya has been stable over the past 1500 years[125] and during recent decades precipitation has not fluctuated significantly.
Done for now, will resume at Scientific research and monitoring. Generally, I would add a gazillion more commas to make the dense text more digestible, but I think that's a BrEng thing or something. Also, I wonder if the list under "A number of research findings have been made with the Quelccaya ice core:" might be converted to prose with thematic paragraph breaks, rather than a list.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
20:33, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
These reach −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) (−6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F)) during the dry season and −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) (2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F)) during the wet season, respectively. I still can't decipher what this is about, and it's a mouthful of numbers. I don't know why there are two sets of parens, and I don't know what the respectively refers to. Maybe it can be split again.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
17:57, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The American paleoclimatologist Lonnie Thompson and the Ohio State University have been monitoring Quelccaya since 1974[139] and the ice cap has been investigated for its glaciology[140] and for both its past and present climate.[27] Why are these two thoughts combined to one sentence? Is it because that is what Ohio State investigates? If so, why not say that directly?
Both of them refer to research efforts at Quelccaya, rather than their results or techniques like the rest of the section. That's why they are together. It's a bit of a "shotgun marriage" but it looked a little jumpy as two sentences.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
19:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The layered appearance of the Quelccaya ice cap at its margins suggested to scientists that it could be used to obtain ice cores with annual resolution. ... I think the "it" refers to the layered appearance, which is really referring to layers ... which could be "they" instead of "it" ... I think what this sentence is saying is that the layers could reveal information about some sort of yearly activity, but no idea why the word "resolution" is used.
Jo-Jo, I worry that these articles labor under the need to mention everything in every source ... part of the art of writing is knowing what to leave out as much as what to add in, and I don't see what this adds: After a summer field program that lasted between 1976 and 1984 ... I see similar issues throughout, often wondering why certain data is included, except that you strive to cover everything, perhaps more so than necessary. Not sure we need to know every year an ice core was taken, for example. Many others taken in later years works.
It's a bit of a judgment call, but here I'll stand by some of the details. The Quelccaya ice core is important because it is the first major ice coring project outside of the polar regions, and has been followed by similar projects elsewhere. Also, as you can see some sections farther down, global warming is destroying the ice record at Quelccaya.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
19:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
has been used to date the ice core;[151] in turn the thickness of the ash at Quelccaya has been used ... has been used, has been used
Will resume at Natural history. I am hoping that when I am done,
Mongo will also go through, as I am not really able to fine tune the prose as I think it still needs ... I am only catching some basics.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
18:11, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Can this be split? Moraines deposited by older glaciers indicate that during the Pleistocene and Holocene glaciers covered larger areas,[2] such as the outwash- and till-covered plain west of Quelccaya,[98] and connected with the Cordillera Vilcanota ice cap,[175][176] covering the area with sandy drift derived from ignimbrites.
The preceding sentence talks about plants growing at a margin, and then, "This shrinkage may relate to a warmer and drier climate at that time." Doesn't relate to previous sentence?
part of the global
neoglacial; ... neoglacial what? This re-expansion ...; this pattern ... vary wording? this pattern of a larger ice cap during the late Holocene than the early is similar ... than the early ??
Should this paragraph go before the findings, for context? The results of the Quelccaya ice core are widely used to reconstruct past climate states ...
Good question. My thinking was that the list is about specific values such as isotope ratios, while the climate is secondhand info inferred from the items in the list.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
18:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Awkward slash ... the ice cap had reached a Little Ice Age-/modern-like extent.
I don't understand this ... These lakes could be sources of future glacial lake outburst floods, although the sparse population of the area mitigates against this hazard; ... is this referring to the consequences of a flood would not be significant because of the sparse population? Or the sparse population makes the flood unlikely ??
Missing word in here ? Projected climate change is expected to involve a further 3–5 °C (5.4–9.0 °F) in the central Andes, ... further change? Further increase ?
Reading through all of these dashes and minuses is really awful. It might work better to re-cast these sentences to use more English and do manual converts to make it less burdensome ... and, do we put the lowest number first or last ... and sort margin from top ... so sorting all of that ...
Temperatures at the top of Quelccaya are inferred to be between −4.2 °C (24.4 °F)[1] and −4.8 °C (23.4 °F).[36] For the margin of Quelccaya, mean temperatures have been inferred under the assumption that the lapse rate is constant. These reach −6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F) with a mean of −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) during the dry season and 2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F) with a mean of −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) during the wet season, respectively.
I am thinking of something like this to eliminate endashes adding to the minus sign burden, while also getting rid of a "respectively" that requires us to re-read the sentence to sort:
Temperatures at the top of Quelccaya are inferred to be between −4.8 °C and −4.2 °C (23.4 °F and 24.4 °F). For the margin of Quelccaya, mean temperatures have been inferred under the assumption that the lapse rate is constant. Varying between −6.3 °C and 0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F), the mean temperature at the margin is −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) during the dry season. During the wet season, it varies between −3.1 °C and 2.9 °C (26.4–37.2 °F) with a mean of −0.5 °C (31.1 °F).
Andes drop off steeply to the Amazon basin[8] and the Amazon rainforest is only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away, which is barely discernible from the summit of Quelccaya -->
Andes drop off steeply to the Amazon basin. The Amazon rainforest—only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away—is barely discernible from the summit of Quelccaya.
Reverse this to get the point across easier (that is, move the other ice caps to the end of the sentence, which allows the reader to easier scan the sentence for meaning):
Together with Coropuna and ice bodies in New Guinea and the Rwenzori Mountains in Africa, Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world; during glacial times there were more ice caps which may have resembled Quelccaya. -->
During glacial times there were more ice caps which may have resembled Quelccaya, but today, Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world, along with Coropuna and ice bodies in New Guinea and the Rwenzori Mountains in Africa.
Hmm, my thinking was that since we are looking backwards in time (past glacial climates are only discussed a few sections farther down) starting with the present would be more apropos.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
20:32, 4 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Similar here ... reversing the sentences allows the reader to get the point and scan over the numeric detail:
The ice cap lies at 5,200–5,700 metres (17,100–18,700 ft) elevation; Quelccaya is thus a low-elevation ice cap by tropical standards that nonetheless rises above the surrounding terrain. -->
By tropical standards, Quelccaya is a low-elevation ice cap that rises above the surrounding terrain; the ice cap is between 5,200 and 5,700 metres (17,100–18,700 ft) elevation.
At this point in the article, we've mentioned Coropuna several times ... so probably the clause "also in southern Peru" should have occurred earlier ... ?
and was thus smaller than the ice on Coropuna[14] volcano also in southern Peru,
Generally I do better if I simply alter the prose and do random reference checking for things. Is this a form of Peer Review going on now as a prerequiste to a Featured Article nomination?--
MONGO (
talk)
15:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Ok..have not given up hope yet...just curious how much I can alter wording? I hate stepping on anyone's toes but I may be a bit drastic in a few areas.--
MONGO (
talk)
00:40, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I generally check people's edits to my articles, to make sure that they didn't break text-source integrity. Your edits so far seem OK to me. I would use different wording on some points, but then, there is more than one way to write the same topic.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Under Geography:
What is meant by the statement "and the Amazon rainforest is only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away; it can be barely distinguished from the summit of Quelccaya"?
I am not so sure that "sometimes" is a good rewrite, though; the source says From the summit of the icecap, one can nearly distinguish the great Amazonrainforest just off to the east. whish is more akin to "barely" than "sometimes".
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
17:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"The existence of two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya was reported in 1968." do we have any information as to the current situation with these smaller ice caps?
Not as far as I know. I suspect they are gone now but it's something I am interpreting out of maps; I'd be a little wary of putting that interpreting into the wiki article.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I think my meaning was it leaves the reader hanging a bit. I am not sure we should even mention it unless we have a followup since this was more than 50 years ago.--
MONGO (
talk)
16:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world,[14][15] or even the only one...is even the only one accurate? I see it is referenced but cannot reach that reference.--
MONGO (
talk)
16:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
The source says The Quelccaya Ice Cap insouthern Peru is the only remaining such glacial featurein the Earth’s tropical latitudes. The problem is that sometimes Quelccaya is called "the only one" and sometimes "one of the few".
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
17:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"Between 1975 and 2010, Quelccaya covered an area of 50.2 square kilometres (19.4 sq mi); decreasing over time,[13] by 2009 it had shrunk to 42.8 square kilometres (16.5 sq mi)"...if the ice cap was a bigger size between 1975 and 2010. how could it have been smaller in 2009. I'm confused.
Is the jury in that the ice cap retreat is solely due to human caused global warming? My understanding is that while this is the defining factor according to the sources, its not the only reason as we have been in a warming state as a trend since 10K years ago. The overall trend has been one of warming since then.--
MONGO (
talk)
20:06, 3 December 2020 (UTC)reply
The following article attributes a lot of the most recent retreat to a strong El Nino effect in 2015 and reduced precipitation overall since 1970.
[3]--
MONGO (
talk)
20:16, 3 December 2020 (UTC)reply
@
MONGO:Good question, but as the Quelccaya article notes early in the Holocene Quelccaya was smaller than before the Little Ice Age/recently, and the modern retreat was underway since before the 2015 ENSO event (putting aside for a moment whether the 2015 ENSO event was a natural one).
Specifically * Snow accumulation has a roughly 250-year cyclicity; this may be a consequence of evaporation in the North Atlantic.[1] A 14-year cycle has also been detected.[2]; as noted in the
FA candidacy apparently statistical methods for detecting cyclicity are now considered questionable.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
10:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
References
^Villalba, Ricardo; Boninsegna, José A.; Lara, Antonio; Veblen, Tom T.; Roig, Fidel A.; Aravena, Juan-Carlos; Ripalta, Alberto (1996). Jones, Philip D.; Bradley, Raymond S.; Jouzel, Jean (eds.). Interdecadal climatic variations in millennial temperature reconstructions from southern South America. Springer Berlin Heidelberg. p. 185.
doi:
10.1007/978-3-642-61113-1_9.
ISBN978-3-642-64700-0. {{
cite book}}: |work= ignored (
help)
Only one source used in the article names it the highest point of Quelccaya, but a lot of sources refer to a highest point of Quelccaya. I've written it so that the name refers to the "summit" of Quelccaya and thus referred the elevation estimates to it.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
16:00, 7 December 2023 (UTC)reply
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Quelccaya Ice Cap article. This is
not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is supported by WikiProject Peru. This project provides a central approach to Peru-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing
the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
wikiproject page for more details.PeruWikipedia:WikiProject PeruTemplate:WikiProject PeruPeru articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Glaciers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Glaciers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GlaciersWikipedia:WikiProject GlaciersTemplate:WikiProject GlaciersGlacier articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Climate change, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Climate change on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Climate changeWikipedia:WikiProject Climate changeTemplate:WikiProject Climate changeClimate change articles
Because you are mixing use of citation with cite journal, you are getting differences in formatting of page ranges. Switch the citation templates to cite journal or cite web?
Not sure what the =1 is doing here ... "Sicuani, Peru" (Map). Joint Operations Graphic. 1:250,000. National Imagery and Mapping Agencyedition =1. 1996.
"supposedly it can almost be seen from the summit of Quelccaya" feels pretty weasly. If you can tell me the wording from the source, we could work on improvement.
" In 1968, the existence of two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya was reported.[18]" --> Two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya were discovered in 1968 ?? or Two samller ice caps south of Quelccaya were first reported in 1968 ??
The source text is The west-to-east width of the ice capvaries between 3.8 and 1.2 km with sizable embayments atop interfluves, generally following the plateau geometry. on page 71-72 of
this source.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
11:21, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SandyGeorgia:I'd say it's better off where it is as it shows the extent and shape of the ice cap. DTH otherwise. Also, I have developed a convention that I update an article with new sources only once per year, during the Christmas holidays; would it be warranted to break with that convention here?
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
18:07, 22 October 2020 (UTC)reply
In geomorphology, the list of lakes contains some full sentences and some sentence fragments. Since they all have final puncutation, maybe they should all be full sentences?
This all needs detangling: "On the western side of Quelccaya these valleys include the Qori Kalis valley northwest of the ice cap, Challpa Cocha valley south of Qori Kalis,[86] the wide and flat Huancané measuring 0.5 kilometres (0.31 mi) and its tributary the "South Fork"[c] valley[37] south of Challpa Cocha valley.[86] The Huancané valley runs southwestwards away from Quelccaya[87] and is occupied by the Huancané River.[88]"
Too many clauses here: Annual precipitation at Quelccaya and the neighbouring Cordillera Vilcanota is about 0.8–1.0 metre per year (2.6–3.3 ft/a), with most of it originating from the Amazon and falling during austral summer[36] during the summer monsoon[106] when high insolation leads to intense convection and showers;[107] the location of the ice cap also generated orographic precipitation. Split at semi-colon? Why past tense? Brief explanation of "orographic precipitation" so reader doesn't have to click out ?
Why not move this to the start of the para, to prepare readers for what the para is about? This is much wetter than most of the tropical Andes, a consequence of Quelccaya's proximity to the Amazon. --> Because of its proximity to the Amazon, Cuelccaya is much wetter than most of the tropical Andes. ... to start the para ... that clues the reader to skip the detail if they aren't interested. I think that sort of thing could improve a lot of your volcano content ... tell the average reader earlier what they are about to read, so they can skim if they don't want the detail.
Way too difficult to get through: Assuming a constant
lapse rate mean temperatures of −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) (−6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F)) and −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) (2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F)) have been inferred for its margin during the dry and wet seasons, respectively. Too many dashes, parens, converts, complicated by a "respectively split". Needs disentangling. I can't really tell what it says ... don't know what number is what, eyes glaze over ... don't know how to fix it, don't know what it says.
Ungrammatical, can't tell what it wants to say ... However, apart of precipitation fluctuations climate at Quelccaya has been stable over the past 1500 years[125] and during recent decades precipitation has not fluctuated significantly.
Done for now, will resume at Scientific research and monitoring. Generally, I would add a gazillion more commas to make the dense text more digestible, but I think that's a BrEng thing or something. Also, I wonder if the list under "A number of research findings have been made with the Quelccaya ice core:" might be converted to prose with thematic paragraph breaks, rather than a list.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
20:33, 25 October 2020 (UTC)reply
These reach −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) (−6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F)) during the dry season and −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) (2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F)) during the wet season, respectively. I still can't decipher what this is about, and it's a mouthful of numbers. I don't know why there are two sets of parens, and I don't know what the respectively refers to. Maybe it can be split again.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
17:57, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The American paleoclimatologist Lonnie Thompson and the Ohio State University have been monitoring Quelccaya since 1974[139] and the ice cap has been investigated for its glaciology[140] and for both its past and present climate.[27] Why are these two thoughts combined to one sentence? Is it because that is what Ohio State investigates? If so, why not say that directly?
Both of them refer to research efforts at Quelccaya, rather than their results or techniques like the rest of the section. That's why they are together. It's a bit of a "shotgun marriage" but it looked a little jumpy as two sentences.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
19:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
The layered appearance of the Quelccaya ice cap at its margins suggested to scientists that it could be used to obtain ice cores with annual resolution. ... I think the "it" refers to the layered appearance, which is really referring to layers ... which could be "they" instead of "it" ... I think what this sentence is saying is that the layers could reveal information about some sort of yearly activity, but no idea why the word "resolution" is used.
Jo-Jo, I worry that these articles labor under the need to mention everything in every source ... part of the art of writing is knowing what to leave out as much as what to add in, and I don't see what this adds: After a summer field program that lasted between 1976 and 1984 ... I see similar issues throughout, often wondering why certain data is included, except that you strive to cover everything, perhaps more so than necessary. Not sure we need to know every year an ice core was taken, for example. Many others taken in later years works.
It's a bit of a judgment call, but here I'll stand by some of the details. The Quelccaya ice core is important because it is the first major ice coring project outside of the polar regions, and has been followed by similar projects elsewhere. Also, as you can see some sections farther down, global warming is destroying the ice record at Quelccaya.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
19:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
has been used to date the ice core;[151] in turn the thickness of the ash at Quelccaya has been used ... has been used, has been used
Will resume at Natural history. I am hoping that when I am done,
Mongo will also go through, as I am not really able to fine tune the prose as I think it still needs ... I am only catching some basics.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk)
18:11, 27 October 2020 (UTC)reply
Can this be split? Moraines deposited by older glaciers indicate that during the Pleistocene and Holocene glaciers covered larger areas,[2] such as the outwash- and till-covered plain west of Quelccaya,[98] and connected with the Cordillera Vilcanota ice cap,[175][176] covering the area with sandy drift derived from ignimbrites.
The preceding sentence talks about plants growing at a margin, and then, "This shrinkage may relate to a warmer and drier climate at that time." Doesn't relate to previous sentence?
part of the global
neoglacial; ... neoglacial what? This re-expansion ...; this pattern ... vary wording? this pattern of a larger ice cap during the late Holocene than the early is similar ... than the early ??
Should this paragraph go before the findings, for context? The results of the Quelccaya ice core are widely used to reconstruct past climate states ...
Good question. My thinking was that the list is about specific values such as isotope ratios, while the climate is secondhand info inferred from the items in the list.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
18:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Awkward slash ... the ice cap had reached a Little Ice Age-/modern-like extent.
I don't understand this ... These lakes could be sources of future glacial lake outburst floods, although the sparse population of the area mitigates against this hazard; ... is this referring to the consequences of a flood would not be significant because of the sparse population? Or the sparse population makes the flood unlikely ??
Missing word in here ? Projected climate change is expected to involve a further 3–5 °C (5.4–9.0 °F) in the central Andes, ... further change? Further increase ?
Reading through all of these dashes and minuses is really awful. It might work better to re-cast these sentences to use more English and do manual converts to make it less burdensome ... and, do we put the lowest number first or last ... and sort margin from top ... so sorting all of that ...
Temperatures at the top of Quelccaya are inferred to be between −4.2 °C (24.4 °F)[1] and −4.8 °C (23.4 °F).[36] For the margin of Quelccaya, mean temperatures have been inferred under the assumption that the lapse rate is constant. These reach −6.3–0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F) with a mean of −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) during the dry season and 2.9 – −3.1 °C (37.2–26.4 °F) with a mean of −0.5 °C (31.1 °F) during the wet season, respectively.
I am thinking of something like this to eliminate endashes adding to the minus sign burden, while also getting rid of a "respectively" that requires us to re-read the sentence to sort:
Temperatures at the top of Quelccaya are inferred to be between −4.8 °C and −4.2 °C (23.4 °F and 24.4 °F). For the margin of Quelccaya, mean temperatures have been inferred under the assumption that the lapse rate is constant. Varying between −6.3 °C and 0.9 °C (20.7–33.6 °F), the mean temperature at the margin is −3.3 °C (26.1 °F) during the dry season. During the wet season, it varies between −3.1 °C and 2.9 °C (26.4–37.2 °F) with a mean of −0.5 °C (31.1 °F).
Andes drop off steeply to the Amazon basin[8] and the Amazon rainforest is only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away, which is barely discernible from the summit of Quelccaya -->
Andes drop off steeply to the Amazon basin. The Amazon rainforest—only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away—is barely discernible from the summit of Quelccaya.
Reverse this to get the point across easier (that is, move the other ice caps to the end of the sentence, which allows the reader to easier scan the sentence for meaning):
Together with Coropuna and ice bodies in New Guinea and the Rwenzori Mountains in Africa, Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world; during glacial times there were more ice caps which may have resembled Quelccaya. -->
During glacial times there were more ice caps which may have resembled Quelccaya, but today, Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world, along with Coropuna and ice bodies in New Guinea and the Rwenzori Mountains in Africa.
Hmm, my thinking was that since we are looking backwards in time (past glacial climates are only discussed a few sections farther down) starting with the present would be more apropos.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
20:32, 4 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Similar here ... reversing the sentences allows the reader to get the point and scan over the numeric detail:
The ice cap lies at 5,200–5,700 metres (17,100–18,700 ft) elevation; Quelccaya is thus a low-elevation ice cap by tropical standards that nonetheless rises above the surrounding terrain. -->
By tropical standards, Quelccaya is a low-elevation ice cap that rises above the surrounding terrain; the ice cap is between 5,200 and 5,700 metres (17,100–18,700 ft) elevation.
At this point in the article, we've mentioned Coropuna several times ... so probably the clause "also in southern Peru" should have occurred earlier ... ?
and was thus smaller than the ice on Coropuna[14] volcano also in southern Peru,
Generally I do better if I simply alter the prose and do random reference checking for things. Is this a form of Peer Review going on now as a prerequiste to a Featured Article nomination?--
MONGO (
talk)
15:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Ok..have not given up hope yet...just curious how much I can alter wording? I hate stepping on anyone's toes but I may be a bit drastic in a few areas.--
MONGO (
talk)
00:40, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I generally check people's edits to my articles, to make sure that they didn't break text-source integrity. Your edits so far seem OK to me. I would use different wording on some points, but then, there is more than one way to write the same topic.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Under Geography:
What is meant by the statement "and the Amazon rainforest is only 40 kilometres (25 mi) away; it can be barely distinguished from the summit of Quelccaya"?
I am not so sure that "sometimes" is a good rewrite, though; the source says From the summit of the icecap, one can nearly distinguish the great Amazonrainforest just off to the east. whish is more akin to "barely" than "sometimes".
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
17:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"The existence of two smaller ice caps south of Quelccaya was reported in 1968." do we have any information as to the current situation with these smaller ice caps?
Not as far as I know. I suspect they are gone now but it's something I am interpreting out of maps; I'd be a little wary of putting that interpreting into the wiki article.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I think my meaning was it leaves the reader hanging a bit. I am not sure we should even mention it unless we have a followup since this was more than 50 years ago.--
MONGO (
talk)
16:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"Quelccaya is one of the few tropical ice caps in the world,[14][15] or even the only one...is even the only one accurate? I see it is referenced but cannot reach that reference.--
MONGO (
talk)
16:36, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
The source says The Quelccaya Ice Cap insouthern Peru is the only remaining such glacial featurein the Earth’s tropical latitudes. The problem is that sometimes Quelccaya is called "the only one" and sometimes "one of the few".
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
17:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)reply
"Between 1975 and 2010, Quelccaya covered an area of 50.2 square kilometres (19.4 sq mi); decreasing over time,[13] by 2009 it had shrunk to 42.8 square kilometres (16.5 sq mi)"...if the ice cap was a bigger size between 1975 and 2010. how could it have been smaller in 2009. I'm confused.
Is the jury in that the ice cap retreat is solely due to human caused global warming? My understanding is that while this is the defining factor according to the sources, its not the only reason as we have been in a warming state as a trend since 10K years ago. The overall trend has been one of warming since then.--
MONGO (
talk)
20:06, 3 December 2020 (UTC)reply
The following article attributes a lot of the most recent retreat to a strong El Nino effect in 2015 and reduced precipitation overall since 1970.
[3]--
MONGO (
talk)
20:16, 3 December 2020 (UTC)reply
@
MONGO:Good question, but as the Quelccaya article notes early in the Holocene Quelccaya was smaller than before the Little Ice Age/recently, and the modern retreat was underway since before the 2015 ENSO event (putting aside for a moment whether the 2015 ENSO event was a natural one).
Specifically * Snow accumulation has a roughly 250-year cyclicity; this may be a consequence of evaporation in the North Atlantic.[1] A 14-year cycle has also been detected.[2]; as noted in the
FA candidacy apparently statistical methods for detecting cyclicity are now considered questionable.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
10:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)reply
References
^Villalba, Ricardo; Boninsegna, José A.; Lara, Antonio; Veblen, Tom T.; Roig, Fidel A.; Aravena, Juan-Carlos; Ripalta, Alberto (1996). Jones, Philip D.; Bradley, Raymond S.; Jouzel, Jean (eds.). Interdecadal climatic variations in millennial temperature reconstructions from southern South America. Springer Berlin Heidelberg. p. 185.
doi:
10.1007/978-3-642-61113-1_9.
ISBN978-3-642-64700-0. {{
cite book}}: |work= ignored (
help)
Only one source used in the article names it the highest point of Quelccaya, but a lot of sources refer to a highest point of Quelccaya. I've written it so that the name refers to the "summit" of Quelccaya and thus referred the elevation estimates to it.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
16:00, 7 December 2023 (UTC)reply