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new poll shows 28% approval Southleft 04:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it has gotten worse: the last one I heard (via MSNBC) was 26%. Any lower and he's in Nixon territory...
Ah, so right after I move stuff back into here, I discover that the reason this has barely been touched in two weeks is because it was all copied back into George_W._Bush#Criticism_and_public_perception. I don't know what to do now other than deleting most of the intro (which was never sectioned to begin with) from this article and turning it into an article solely on polling data. Any objections?-- Kchase T 05:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Both articles should be merged in one. There's really no point in having them separated since they have practically the same content. -- Hetfield1987 ( Wesborland | James Hetfield) 21:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I made those graphs. You can add them to the main article if you want.-- Jean-Francois Landry 15:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I added some data to the Newsweek poll and here are the sources:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/1040a3PoliticsandtheWar.pdf
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19623564/site/newsweek/
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1723&pg=2
--
Jean-Francois Landry
15:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 12:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Hello. Are there any data on his approval now that he's a lame duck? We only seem to go up to August 2008. 66.75.11.192 ( talk) 02:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This article deals mostly with public perception in general. Should it also include scholarly perception? Some information about this can be found in the presidential rankings page. 68.193.130.33 ( talk) 04:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
This article has lots of OR in the weight it places on criticisms, what it chooses to report ect. As a matter of fact, I think the article's title makes it impossible to not do OR of some type. After all, who is authoritative for the public's perception? What is a reliable source for what the public believes? Who is to determine how much coverage of a given issue is appropriate and how much is wp:undue? Consider the section "December 2005 Rasmussen poll on Iraq" Why include that specific poll? Why not include one about, say, treatment of detainees or hurricane Katrina? Without a reliable third party source to cite, its OR either way. Bonewah ( talk) 21:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Okay. That's a sentiment I can understand, but unfortunately that is the basis for every wikipedia article: what to include and what not to. If that were OR, all of wikipedia would be OR. Electing to put the population of New York City in the New York City article would be OR.
Wikipedia policy on original research doesn't refer to the choice of sourced content to be included; it only imposes that you're not WP:MAKINGSHITUP based on personal experience. If a given question about public opinion is neutral point of view lies at the discretion of the users.-- Loodog ( talk) 15:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I think this article's topic is valid for WP, and I think polls are valid if you use them correctly, and I don't think this article is guilty of OR. I do think, however, that the article is skewed in a couple of places. For example, I suspect the impeachment polls are cherry-picked to present the high watermarks of the pro-impeachment view. I'd rather see impeachment polls across several years, to see what the data range is. Wasted Time R ( talk) 00:51, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Without discussion, this article got moved to Public image of George W. Bush, with the reason "Per consistency with other articles on American politicians". First, a move like this requires discussion ahead of time. Second, each of these articles is somewhat different in scope and intent, and in many cases the previous name was chosen with some thought. I have undone this move, since this article is largely poll-driven and "perception" thus better conveys what the article is about than "image". I've undone another one of the renamings as well, because it too compromised an accurate description of the article's content. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I realize that the above OR discussion is a bit high level to be practical for this article, so im making this section to discuss specifics of this article and what needs to be removed. I will be removing some material that i feel is OR for purposes of wp:BRD. Feel free to readd anything you feel was removed in error, and discuss here.
At the beginning of his first term, Bush was regarded by some as lacking political legitimacy due to his narrow victory in Florida and the attendant controversy surrounding his electoral college victory, which included accusations of vote suppression and tampering. Bush has also been accused of squandering opportunities for uniting Americans across party lines. While routinely criticized by Democrats, Bush has also divided legitimate Republicans, American Hollywood celebrities, and sports and media personalities, many of whom have engaged in heated criticism of Bush.
WP:SNOW merge, as there is a near-unanimous consent to merge. The only person to oppose is most-likely being disruptive. Sceptre ( talk) 12:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC) I'm proposing this merge because I think that the "criticism" merge provides an undue weight problem regarding Bush. Yes, he was widely criticised. But he still holds the record for highest approval rating, and in most polls, he's seen as a below-average-but-still-not-the-worst president. The "criticism" article doesn't go about offering the opposite side to the criticism, so we have NPOV problems there. I suggest we reogranise this article to order it by time, so we can discuss how his perception rose after 9/11, and bottomed out near the end of his second term. Sceptre ( talk) 12:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as the proposal is being uncontested (save from a disruptive troll), I'm starting moving the small pieces of the criticism article to this article. I'll leave the big section for last. Sceptre ( talk) 22:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
So Sceptre calls me a "a disruptive troll," well this article is still UNDUE to be placed into another article. Or, just maybe, it could be placed in the Republican and conservative support for Barack Obama in 2008 article. Just some thoughts from Sceptre's "disruptive troll." Still vote to Oppose merge. Thanks. Ism schism ( talk) 22:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The whole section 'Country image' is based on editorials rather than opinion polls or some other metric of the public's perception. I am going to remove it as irrelevant, if anyone wants to restore it, be sure to talk about it here. Bonewah ( talk) 13:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I've boldly renamed the article Public image of George W. Bush instead of Public perception of George W. Bush. The name now meshes with Public image of Barack Obama, which is a far more neutral and concrete topic than the public's perception of someone. If there are any serious objections, I will be happy to revert the rename and open it up for wider debate. -- Hemlock Martinis ( talk) 19:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Now we've got the criticism article merged in, we have significant NPOV problems; this is to be expected, seeing as the criticism article was largely negative. How should we go about fixing them? Sceptre ( talk) 12:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Now that the merge is complete, this seems like a good time to ask what layout we would prefer, one based on time or events? My preference is one based on time, I.E. start at 2000 and end at 2009 with all content being organized by when it occurred. The other option would be to group information based on major events or categories of events, I.E. domestic vs. foreign, Iraq war related, etc. Again, sequentially is my choice because it lessens the possibility of undue weight through choice of ordering. Bonewah ( talk) 14:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Why was the Criticism article merged with this one? If this is the new standard ,then no one will mind if I go to the articles on Presidents of other countries and change the criticism section to "Public Image of person x" ? World Views ( talk) 14:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
You are right. I now know the rationale. World Views ( talk) 18:11, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
The sentence stating "Perhaps his most famous nonstandard pronunciation is that of "nucular" instead of "nuclear", although he is not the only American president to have done this, and Merriam-Webster Online considers this an acceptable, alternative pronunciation." is misleading. Granted, Merriam-Webster does list the "nucular" pronunciation, but it adds a ÷ symbol to indicate that it is a nonstandard pronunciation. I think the sentence should be edited to read, "...this, and Merriam-Webster lists this as a variant but nonstandard pronunciation of the term," which is more correct and reflective of the source. danielkueh ( talk) 00:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:51, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you Mr president from my heart ❤ I'm a Iraqi woman just wanted to say to the world you Mr. President George Bush saved us from the criminal saddam Thank you my hero ❤ Aseelalb ( talk) 17:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Eric Blumrich and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 22#Eric Blumrich until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 19:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
The reference link n.124 : "Krauthammer, Charles (December 5, 2003). "The Delusional Dean". The Washington Post." is dead, brings to a Washington Post 404.
I needed to read this source but it's gone. I eventually found it but don't know how to modify references in code so I'll let one of you veterans finish the job, thanks :)
Working link for ref 124 is : https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/12/05/the-delusional-dean/cbc80426-08ee-40fd-97e5-19da55fdc821/
Edit : came back to it much later with more experience and replaced it with the source that works =D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetrarque ( talk • contribs) 23:45, 14 December 2023 (UTC) Tetrarque ( talk) 02:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
would like to add the text below, if that's ok.
"One columnist wrote: "George W. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was the worst foreign-policy decision ever made by an American president. Saddam Hussein was not involved in 9/11, there was no al-Qaeda presence in Iraq and no weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was the most secular state in the Middle East, and there was no Islamic State — the terrorist threat we face today. " George W. Bush was not a good president. As a former president, he’s been exemplary. Bush has provided a model for anyone leaving the Oval Office. By Jean Edward Smith, July 26, 2016, Washington Post.
Sm8900 ( talk) 15:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
i could seek multiple sources to construct the same overview. however this is a column in a major newspaper, which sought a broad over-arching view that was actually positive about george bush, as regards his role in post-presidency. -- Sm8900 ( talk) 15:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
here are some more possible sources:
-- Sm8900 ( talk) 15:19, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
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new poll shows 28% approval Southleft 04:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it has gotten worse: the last one I heard (via MSNBC) was 26%. Any lower and he's in Nixon territory...
Ah, so right after I move stuff back into here, I discover that the reason this has barely been touched in two weeks is because it was all copied back into George_W._Bush#Criticism_and_public_perception. I don't know what to do now other than deleting most of the intro (which was never sectioned to begin with) from this article and turning it into an article solely on polling data. Any objections?-- Kchase T 05:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Both articles should be merged in one. There's really no point in having them separated since they have practically the same content. -- Hetfield1987 ( Wesborland | James Hetfield) 21:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I made those graphs. You can add them to the main article if you want.-- Jean-Francois Landry 15:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I added some data to the Newsweek poll and here are the sources:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/1040a3PoliticsandtheWar.pdf
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19623564/site/newsweek/
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1723&pg=2
--
Jean-Francois Landry
15:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 12:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Hello. Are there any data on his approval now that he's a lame duck? We only seem to go up to August 2008. 66.75.11.192 ( talk) 02:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This article deals mostly with public perception in general. Should it also include scholarly perception? Some information about this can be found in the presidential rankings page. 68.193.130.33 ( talk) 04:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
This article has lots of OR in the weight it places on criticisms, what it chooses to report ect. As a matter of fact, I think the article's title makes it impossible to not do OR of some type. After all, who is authoritative for the public's perception? What is a reliable source for what the public believes? Who is to determine how much coverage of a given issue is appropriate and how much is wp:undue? Consider the section "December 2005 Rasmussen poll on Iraq" Why include that specific poll? Why not include one about, say, treatment of detainees or hurricane Katrina? Without a reliable third party source to cite, its OR either way. Bonewah ( talk) 21:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Okay. That's a sentiment I can understand, but unfortunately that is the basis for every wikipedia article: what to include and what not to. If that were OR, all of wikipedia would be OR. Electing to put the population of New York City in the New York City article would be OR.
Wikipedia policy on original research doesn't refer to the choice of sourced content to be included; it only imposes that you're not WP:MAKINGSHITUP based on personal experience. If a given question about public opinion is neutral point of view lies at the discretion of the users.-- Loodog ( talk) 15:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I think this article's topic is valid for WP, and I think polls are valid if you use them correctly, and I don't think this article is guilty of OR. I do think, however, that the article is skewed in a couple of places. For example, I suspect the impeachment polls are cherry-picked to present the high watermarks of the pro-impeachment view. I'd rather see impeachment polls across several years, to see what the data range is. Wasted Time R ( talk) 00:51, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Without discussion, this article got moved to Public image of George W. Bush, with the reason "Per consistency with other articles on American politicians". First, a move like this requires discussion ahead of time. Second, each of these articles is somewhat different in scope and intent, and in many cases the previous name was chosen with some thought. I have undone this move, since this article is largely poll-driven and "perception" thus better conveys what the article is about than "image". I've undone another one of the renamings as well, because it too compromised an accurate description of the article's content. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I realize that the above OR discussion is a bit high level to be practical for this article, so im making this section to discuss specifics of this article and what needs to be removed. I will be removing some material that i feel is OR for purposes of wp:BRD. Feel free to readd anything you feel was removed in error, and discuss here.
At the beginning of his first term, Bush was regarded by some as lacking political legitimacy due to his narrow victory in Florida and the attendant controversy surrounding his electoral college victory, which included accusations of vote suppression and tampering. Bush has also been accused of squandering opportunities for uniting Americans across party lines. While routinely criticized by Democrats, Bush has also divided legitimate Republicans, American Hollywood celebrities, and sports and media personalities, many of whom have engaged in heated criticism of Bush.
WP:SNOW merge, as there is a near-unanimous consent to merge. The only person to oppose is most-likely being disruptive. Sceptre ( talk) 12:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC) I'm proposing this merge because I think that the "criticism" merge provides an undue weight problem regarding Bush. Yes, he was widely criticised. But he still holds the record for highest approval rating, and in most polls, he's seen as a below-average-but-still-not-the-worst president. The "criticism" article doesn't go about offering the opposite side to the criticism, so we have NPOV problems there. I suggest we reogranise this article to order it by time, so we can discuss how his perception rose after 9/11, and bottomed out near the end of his second term. Sceptre ( talk) 12:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as the proposal is being uncontested (save from a disruptive troll), I'm starting moving the small pieces of the criticism article to this article. I'll leave the big section for last. Sceptre ( talk) 22:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
So Sceptre calls me a "a disruptive troll," well this article is still UNDUE to be placed into another article. Or, just maybe, it could be placed in the Republican and conservative support for Barack Obama in 2008 article. Just some thoughts from Sceptre's "disruptive troll." Still vote to Oppose merge. Thanks. Ism schism ( talk) 22:46, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
The whole section 'Country image' is based on editorials rather than opinion polls or some other metric of the public's perception. I am going to remove it as irrelevant, if anyone wants to restore it, be sure to talk about it here. Bonewah ( talk) 13:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I've boldly renamed the article Public image of George W. Bush instead of Public perception of George W. Bush. The name now meshes with Public image of Barack Obama, which is a far more neutral and concrete topic than the public's perception of someone. If there are any serious objections, I will be happy to revert the rename and open it up for wider debate. -- Hemlock Martinis ( talk) 19:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Now we've got the criticism article merged in, we have significant NPOV problems; this is to be expected, seeing as the criticism article was largely negative. How should we go about fixing them? Sceptre ( talk) 12:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Now that the merge is complete, this seems like a good time to ask what layout we would prefer, one based on time or events? My preference is one based on time, I.E. start at 2000 and end at 2009 with all content being organized by when it occurred. The other option would be to group information based on major events or categories of events, I.E. domestic vs. foreign, Iraq war related, etc. Again, sequentially is my choice because it lessens the possibility of undue weight through choice of ordering. Bonewah ( talk) 14:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Why was the Criticism article merged with this one? If this is the new standard ,then no one will mind if I go to the articles on Presidents of other countries and change the criticism section to "Public Image of person x" ? World Views ( talk) 14:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
You are right. I now know the rationale. World Views ( talk) 18:11, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
The sentence stating "Perhaps his most famous nonstandard pronunciation is that of "nucular" instead of "nuclear", although he is not the only American president to have done this, and Merriam-Webster Online considers this an acceptable, alternative pronunciation." is misleading. Granted, Merriam-Webster does list the "nucular" pronunciation, but it adds a ÷ symbol to indicate that it is a nonstandard pronunciation. I think the sentence should be edited to read, "...this, and Merriam-Webster lists this as a variant but nonstandard pronunciation of the term," which is more correct and reflective of the source. danielkueh ( talk) 00:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 01:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
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Thank you Mr president from my heart ❤ I'm a Iraqi woman just wanted to say to the world you Mr. President George Bush saved us from the criminal saddam Thank you my hero ❤ Aseelalb ( talk) 17:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Eric Blumrich and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 22#Eric Blumrich until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed, Rosguill talk 19:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
The reference link n.124 : "Krauthammer, Charles (December 5, 2003). "The Delusional Dean". The Washington Post." is dead, brings to a Washington Post 404.
I needed to read this source but it's gone. I eventually found it but don't know how to modify references in code so I'll let one of you veterans finish the job, thanks :)
Working link for ref 124 is : https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/12/05/the-delusional-dean/cbc80426-08ee-40fd-97e5-19da55fdc821/
Edit : came back to it much later with more experience and replaced it with the source that works =D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetrarque ( talk • contribs) 23:45, 14 December 2023 (UTC) Tetrarque ( talk) 02:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
would like to add the text below, if that's ok.
"One columnist wrote: "George W. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was the worst foreign-policy decision ever made by an American president. Saddam Hussein was not involved in 9/11, there was no al-Qaeda presence in Iraq and no weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was the most secular state in the Middle East, and there was no Islamic State — the terrorist threat we face today. " George W. Bush was not a good president. As a former president, he’s been exemplary. Bush has provided a model for anyone leaving the Oval Office. By Jean Edward Smith, July 26, 2016, Washington Post.
Sm8900 ( talk) 15:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
i could seek multiple sources to construct the same overview. however this is a column in a major newspaper, which sought a broad over-arching view that was actually positive about george bush, as regards his role in post-presidency. -- Sm8900 ( talk) 15:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
here are some more possible sources:
-- Sm8900 ( talk) 15:19, 20 November 2023 (UTC)