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There are no historical sources cited for this article. In particular, the widely quoted line attributed to Fichte has no source, and turns up in Web searches only as an unattributed quotation. I have not found it in Fichte's works yet. I added it as unsourced in Wikiquote.-- Cherlin ( talk) 22:40, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The quoted line is attributed to a quote by Betrand Russell in a book that was published by a Routledge titled "The Impact of Science on Society". I can't find any reference to the book other than on the publisher's site and the publisher is of dubious credentials. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.164.47.154 ( talk) 19:05, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Alright somebody reverted that again. I think you really have to think about editing before casually reverting. This article is exemplary of many of the criticisms about wikipedia. I will now delete at least the links to partisan homeschooling association propaganda material again and I hope you leave them out at least. As a casual user I can't influence this article but I hope a more experienced editor stumbles over this and realises the unsubstantiated myth and connections that are being established in this article to serve the purpose of in the end slandering the American system of education (sounds absurd, but check the references being made).
I removed everything that was plainly untrue or not classified. I also removed two links to propaganda videos of homeschooling associations. I think the article could be very valuable, as indeed the Prussian system was very influential, but as long as somebody with time can produce a sensible version and not something to give credence to his political ends it should be deleted. Reference can be made to parts of the articles on German and American education. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.247.156 ( talk) 13:58, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Removed POV copyvio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlohcierekim ( talk • contribs) 14:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Recommend that you sign in and become a member instead of editing anonymously, which makes your claims much more dubious. Your claims of 'propaganda, 'myth' 'slander' and so on are POV. Rusmeister ( talk) 03:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
"In Austria, Empress Maria Theresa made use of Prussian pedagogical methods as a means to strengthen her hold over Austria."
Theresa died before the 19th Century had begun. The article says the Prussian system dates to the early 19th Century. I don't see how these two assertions are compatible. Boris B ( talk) 01:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
In David Brooks' column of 3/26/12 ("The Relationship School") he cites the founder of an alternative school in New York City as saying that the American education model was "copied from the 18th-century Prussian model designed to create docile subjects and factory workers."…while I would agree with the goal of producing obedient and politically docile citizens, wasn't Prussia an agrarian state, and such, have no need for masses of factory workers? It sounds to me like an ignorant Marxist-inspired description facilitated by lack of knowledge of the geographical base of German industry (the Rhineland). Historian932 ( talk) 17:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I can see how the US could be considered relevant because this is the English Wikipedia (but why not UK and Australia?) but why Japan? Out of all the countries that are examples of the Prussian system, what makes Japan special? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.90.165.47 ( talk) 01:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
I removed the line about the United States as there is no national system of education in the country. As a result, it's misleading to suggest the country adopted a particular approach when it happened on a state by state basis. EdHistory101 ( talk) 19:42, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The term doesnt exist in German and has no academic merits, its more of an US internal political slogan of home schooling propagandists trying to smear compulsory education via refering to a rather outworldly POV image of Prussia. The article ignores major scientific results of education history. The major impulse for educational reforms within Prussia and as well the major foreign influences happened due to the rivalry and due to the various outcomes of the different wars with France - and influenced the French primary system as well, which was much more primitive and church controlled for a long time, till 1905 btw. The proverbally "the battles of Königgrätz and Sedan have been decided by the Prussian Teachers" (e.g. in Deutsche Geschichte 1866-1918: Bd. Arbeitswelt und Bürgergeist von Thomas Nipperdey) was based on the comparably low amount of analphabetes in the Prussian army - and has nothing to so with serfdom. The introcution already contains basic errors
PS.: You changed the intro, now "18th century" but still use the same source (Jeismann) that was being used before to claim the 19th century. Thats more a "Verschlimmbesserung" (do gooder improvemt to the worse) than a actual improvement. Serten 09:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Be a little bit more careful with claims about the "true goals" of the system. To claim a forced integration as one of the goals is without any base in the actual edicts - the wording you used is part of the propaganda and clarly not in line with the comparable slow actual developement, which was not at all fergusoned. Serten 06:36, 29 November 2014 (UTC) PS.: Are you aware, that the concept of a Nationalsprache was rather alien to Frederick II - the guy allegedly spoke French better than German? I strongly doubt he would have cared much about Polish when introducing the system. In so far I would prefer you check the quality of your sources respectively your wording as well, thats a classical ex post view and not very accurate. Serten 06:48, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I assume the role of the term as opolitical slogan in the inneramerican discussion is of major importance and has to be elaborated en detail, starting from the lede. Serten 10:14, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
The article does not deal with German or American educational policies in the last 100 years or so ...only on the earlier period. Rjensen ( talk) 07:19, 29 November 2014
The use of the term "Prussian education system" did neither stop 1919 nor 1948, its ongoing. Serten 19:03, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
"France and the UK failed to introduce similar systems till the 1880s."
The word failed has a negative connotation and implies that the Prussian system was necessarily the right choice. 73.173.210.49 ( talk) 21:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Most of the references to American schools suggest the actions of individual states (ie. Massachusetts) happened across the country. Due to the 10th Amendment, education in the United States is left up to each state. As a result, it's misleading to talk about American schools as if there is one system. In addition, some states had compulsory education laws in the books before Prussia had their system up and running and some wouldn't have theirs finalized until after Prussia ceased to exist. EdHistory101 ( talk) 19:50, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The section on the adoption of compulsory education is based on misleading sources and misrepresents how compulsory education worked in the United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdHistory101 ( talk • contribs) 12:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 13 September 2006. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
There are no historical sources cited for this article. In particular, the widely quoted line attributed to Fichte has no source, and turns up in Web searches only as an unattributed quotation. I have not found it in Fichte's works yet. I added it as unsourced in Wikiquote.-- Cherlin ( talk) 22:40, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The quoted line is attributed to a quote by Betrand Russell in a book that was published by a Routledge titled "The Impact of Science on Society". I can't find any reference to the book other than on the publisher's site and the publisher is of dubious credentials. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.164.47.154 ( talk) 19:05, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Alright somebody reverted that again. I think you really have to think about editing before casually reverting. This article is exemplary of many of the criticisms about wikipedia. I will now delete at least the links to partisan homeschooling association propaganda material again and I hope you leave them out at least. As a casual user I can't influence this article but I hope a more experienced editor stumbles over this and realises the unsubstantiated myth and connections that are being established in this article to serve the purpose of in the end slandering the American system of education (sounds absurd, but check the references being made).
I removed everything that was plainly untrue or not classified. I also removed two links to propaganda videos of homeschooling associations. I think the article could be very valuable, as indeed the Prussian system was very influential, but as long as somebody with time can produce a sensible version and not something to give credence to his political ends it should be deleted. Reference can be made to parts of the articles on German and American education. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.2.247.156 ( talk) 13:58, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Removed POV copyvio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlohcierekim ( talk • contribs) 14:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Recommend that you sign in and become a member instead of editing anonymously, which makes your claims much more dubious. Your claims of 'propaganda, 'myth' 'slander' and so on are POV. Rusmeister ( talk) 03:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
"In Austria, Empress Maria Theresa made use of Prussian pedagogical methods as a means to strengthen her hold over Austria."
Theresa died before the 19th Century had begun. The article says the Prussian system dates to the early 19th Century. I don't see how these two assertions are compatible. Boris B ( talk) 01:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
In David Brooks' column of 3/26/12 ("The Relationship School") he cites the founder of an alternative school in New York City as saying that the American education model was "copied from the 18th-century Prussian model designed to create docile subjects and factory workers."…while I would agree with the goal of producing obedient and politically docile citizens, wasn't Prussia an agrarian state, and such, have no need for masses of factory workers? It sounds to me like an ignorant Marxist-inspired description facilitated by lack of knowledge of the geographical base of German industry (the Rhineland). Historian932 ( talk) 17:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I can see how the US could be considered relevant because this is the English Wikipedia (but why not UK and Australia?) but why Japan? Out of all the countries that are examples of the Prussian system, what makes Japan special? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.90.165.47 ( talk) 01:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
I removed the line about the United States as there is no national system of education in the country. As a result, it's misleading to suggest the country adopted a particular approach when it happened on a state by state basis. EdHistory101 ( talk) 19:42, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The term doesnt exist in German and has no academic merits, its more of an US internal political slogan of home schooling propagandists trying to smear compulsory education via refering to a rather outworldly POV image of Prussia. The article ignores major scientific results of education history. The major impulse for educational reforms within Prussia and as well the major foreign influences happened due to the rivalry and due to the various outcomes of the different wars with France - and influenced the French primary system as well, which was much more primitive and church controlled for a long time, till 1905 btw. The proverbally "the battles of Königgrätz and Sedan have been decided by the Prussian Teachers" (e.g. in Deutsche Geschichte 1866-1918: Bd. Arbeitswelt und Bürgergeist von Thomas Nipperdey) was based on the comparably low amount of analphabetes in the Prussian army - and has nothing to so with serfdom. The introcution already contains basic errors
PS.: You changed the intro, now "18th century" but still use the same source (Jeismann) that was being used before to claim the 19th century. Thats more a "Verschlimmbesserung" (do gooder improvemt to the worse) than a actual improvement. Serten 09:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Be a little bit more careful with claims about the "true goals" of the system. To claim a forced integration as one of the goals is without any base in the actual edicts - the wording you used is part of the propaganda and clarly not in line with the comparable slow actual developement, which was not at all fergusoned. Serten 06:36, 29 November 2014 (UTC) PS.: Are you aware, that the concept of a Nationalsprache was rather alien to Frederick II - the guy allegedly spoke French better than German? I strongly doubt he would have cared much about Polish when introducing the system. In so far I would prefer you check the quality of your sources respectively your wording as well, thats a classical ex post view and not very accurate. Serten 06:48, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
I assume the role of the term as opolitical slogan in the inneramerican discussion is of major importance and has to be elaborated en detail, starting from the lede. Serten 10:14, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
The article does not deal with German or American educational policies in the last 100 years or so ...only on the earlier period. Rjensen ( talk) 07:19, 29 November 2014
The use of the term "Prussian education system" did neither stop 1919 nor 1948, its ongoing. Serten 19:03, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
"France and the UK failed to introduce similar systems till the 1880s."
The word failed has a negative connotation and implies that the Prussian system was necessarily the right choice. 73.173.210.49 ( talk) 21:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Most of the references to American schools suggest the actions of individual states (ie. Massachusetts) happened across the country. Due to the 10th Amendment, education in the United States is left up to each state. As a result, it's misleading to talk about American schools as if there is one system. In addition, some states had compulsory education laws in the books before Prussia had their system up and running and some wouldn't have theirs finalized until after Prussia ceased to exist. EdHistory101 ( talk) 19:50, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The section on the adoption of compulsory education is based on misleading sources and misrepresents how compulsory education worked in the United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdHistory101 ( talk • contribs) 12:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)