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Major NPOV problem here. The whole feminist section is a diatribe against radical feminism. It needs to be fixed.
-Should "whore" redirect here? I thought sex workers viewed that term as a perjorative.
Two points. 1. Regarding the section in history regarding Greek and Roman societies, does the author deliberately use the words "common prositute", because these (at least in the UK) have a very specific meaning.
2. Legality situation in the UK is quite simple: The paying for sexual favours, and accepting payment for them is legal.
It is however illegal to pimp due to regulations regarding living off immoral earnings. Sexual Offences Act 1956? Common prostitutes (that being, prostitutes working on the street which have been cautioned repeatedly by the police) have a number of other restrictions as to what they can or cannot do, and can commit a number of other offences (including loitering with intent). Street Offences Act 1959? Brothels are restricted by various legislation including not having planning permission, and I believe illegality of owning a bawdy house. It is also typically against tenancy agreements. Phonebox advertising is not legal, as far as I am aware, and the is against the BT contracts as well. Kerb Crawling is also an offence, under the Street Offences Act 1984 and was made an arrestable offence in 2001.
ASBO's are also being used by neighbours of prostitutes to stop them working.
So, to summarise, if you were to meet someone and simply pay them for sex, then it's entirely possible neither of you have broken the law (unless you're both of the same sex and then it's possible you might have broken the law) subject to consent etc..
However, if you organise or manage prostitutes then you are breaking the law.
The basis of this information in this discussion note comes from a dinner party I had with someone who works with the CPS and a "working girl". (And yes, I have interesting dinner parties).
--
Prostitution is not prohibited in Holland and most of Europe? Where are the facts to back this up. I believe prostitution is actually against the law in Holland, although the authorities turn a blind eye (i may be wrong about this)
I don't know of any other European countries where prostitution is legal. The only place i know of is the state of Nevada in the US.
Maybe i'm wrong - JamieTheFoool
Ericd 22:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)~
My $0.02 says that it's illegal in Sweden. -- Pinkunicorn
Uhhhh - and though prostitution is USED in many (shall we say 'all'?)societies, prostitutes are certainly scorned in scoieties touched by, say, Hinduism and Buddhism. --MichaelTinkler
---
I edited your otherwise valid points to remove troll-like behaviour. These are decent issues, why not research and write about it yourself?
--- Regarding the situation in the Netherlands: Prostitution has always been legal, but holding a brothel was not. That is, the prostitute and the customer were legal, but the pimp was not. However, this was understandably not prosecuted. In October 2000 a new law went into effect where also this was made legal. So, nowadays prostitution is fully legal (provided no minors or illegal immigrants are prostituted, taxes are paid, municipal regulations are adhered to and such).
Regarding Sweden, I think I read somewhere that it was made illegal quite recently. -- Andre Engels
Correction and/or clarification: In Sweden, prostitution itself is not a crime, but purchase of prostitution sevices is. Strange but true. --Anders T?rlind
Oooh - and in a bizarre opposite to the situation in Holland, in the city of Atlanta, Georgia, in the 1980s and 90s in response to the competing pressures of neighborhood groups and the convention trade the City came to a modus vivendi - streetwalkers were prosecuted but houses of prostitution were not. Prostitution remained illegal but tolerated. Now this is mere anecdote - I'm sure you can't find it anywhere stated thus in the Atlanta Journal Constitution archives, but it was all over the alternative press. It wasn't the sex, it wasn't the exploitation, it was the sidewalk nuisance that irritated people. --MichaelTinkler
... Prostitution is legal in small counties in Nevada. It's heavily regulated though and can only legally take place in licensed brothels. --AxelBoldt
It is not legal in Las Vegas, itself, or the rest of surrounding Clark County. An interesting bit of trivia is that the IRS briefly owned and auctioned off the Mustang Ranch, the first legal brothel in Nevada. --[User:Belltower]]
The relevant law is NRSNRS 244.345 (Dancing halls, escort services, entertainment by referral services and gambling games or devices; limitation on licensing of houses of prostitution.):
Not sure about Europe, but there would be at least a few countries there where it is legal. Holland, Germany, and the England would be my first guesses.
It is legal in parts of Australia, with regulations that vary from state to state. Definitely legal in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory, for prostitutes working in brothels. For further information try http://138.25.65.50/databases.html then go to the relevant state or territory link and search for "prostitution". Then try to understand the maze of ammendments and horrible legal language:-) http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_act/pa1992205/index.html gives (some of) the ACT rules. The NSW situation is spread over lots of acts and ammendments and will be harder to pin down. Alternatively, just look in the phone books for Sydney or Canberra where there are plenty of brothels openly advertising.
Escorts and brothels are legal and common in Victoria as well, with restrictions (zoning restrictions, maximum size, can't advertise for sex workers, etc. etc.). Streetwalking is illegal, but there have been serious discussions about whether the restriction should be lifted in certain areas. -- Robert Merkel
Prostitutuin is definately not legal in England or any other part of the United Kingdom, or Ireland for that matter. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in Germany too, and france, and Spain. - JamieTheFoool
Prostitution itself is legal in the UK, but there are laws against various related activities. -- Zundark
On a totally different note, I believe I heard somewhere that various primates also show behaviour that could be classified as prostitution. Anyone who have information about this would do well to add it to the page. --Anders T?rlind
Prostitution is legal in Germany. All big cities have areas where streetwalkers are allowed; these zones are set my municipal governments. Most cities have city-licensed brothels. Apartment prostitution is widespread and legal. Prostitution does not count as a regular profession and prostitutes are not elligible for typical German worker benefits such as health, unemployment, accident and disability insurance, social security, guaranteed vacation, right to strike etc. They cannot join private health insurance plans unless they lie about their job. The current government is about to change that and accept prostitution as a profession.
A quirk of civil law makes it possible that a customer of a prostitute may refuse to pay after the fact without culpability (since the contract was "against the good morals"). If the prostitute refuses services after having been paid, she is prosecuted for fraud. This is also being changed.
Maintaining a luxurious brothel is a grey area: the owner can be prosecuted for "furtherance of prostitution" which is, along with pimping, illegal. Mostly, the luxurious brothels are tolerated though, unless they employ illegal immigrants or are owned by organized crime.
There are also lots of fly-by-night brothels where foreign prostitutes (from Eastern Europe, Thailand, Africa, South America) are held against their will, which is of course illegal.
Prostitution is legal in Spain too, but I don't have details.
The comment that male prostitution for female clients is negligible sounded like an exaggeration. While they are undoubtedly rare compared to female prostitutes, they do exist.
Where do people who work in porn films fit in this article?
I wrote: "In many rich countries, illegal immigrants work in prostitution, quite commonly against their will." I'm not sure if "quite commonly" is the right choice of words. I know only the situation in Germany, and you'll find news reports maybe once a month about prostitutes being freed by police, so it definitely exists. It also is doubtlessly true that many foreign prostitutes work in Germany on their own choosing: it is the quickest way to make lots of money without an education. Now I don't know whether forced or unforced prostitution among immigrants is more common, and I don't think there are any statistics. So is "quite commonly" a good choice of words or is it not neutral enough? --AxelBoldt
"Law enforcement is typically concentrated against establishments engaged in sexual slavery, against establishments owned by organized crime and against forms of prostitution that generate citizen complaints." ... For this to be balanced, it should be added that the police have traditionally participated by accepting favors from prostitutes and in extorting money from prostitutes.
I deleted "eliminating sexual slavery" from the list of reasons given for heavy regulation of prostitution. I have never heard that as a justification, nor can I see how it would work. Nevada for instance explicitly mentions STD control (and mandates condoms), but sexual slavery is not mentioned. Countries usually focus on public health issues, making sure that the workers get health checks and are registered with the government etc., and they also want to control where prostitution takes place. Sexual slavery is as prevalent in regulating countries as it is in prohibitory countries. Illegal immigrants in Germany for instance cannot be registered as prostitutes and are therefore easy to exploit by organized crime. Complete decriminalization like in the Netherlands seems to be the better strategy if one wanted to give exploited women a way out. --AxelBoldt
One, George Peppard was not in My Fair Lady -- it was Breakfast at Tiffany's a howling mistake!
Two, This article reads like a prurient high-schooler's views of prostitution -- based largely on TV movies.
This needs to have some serious analysis of social implications, political positions, and generally some meat injected.
I don't know the details of the new German law, but I wonder if the German and Dutch situations are now sufficiently similar that we can mention them together in the preceding paragraph. Can prostitutes in Germany now buy health insurance, and can they join the social security system? --AxelBoldt
'The term "prostitution" is sometimes used in the more general meaning of having sex in order to achieve a certain goal different from the pleasure of having sex.'
i'm new and my shift key is broken, so i don't want to edit the actual article just yet, until i repair my shift key and get the feel of wikipedia.
anyway i think the quoted statement, in the beginning of the article, isn't totally accurate. lets say a couple wants to have a child, usually it takes some tries. after about ten tries some couples will continue not for the pleasure of the sex, but for the child. or if i'm feeling particularly horny and my wife isn't, or vice versa, she might give in to satisfy my needs, and with a happy hart of course, nobody wants sex with an irritated person , i think.
i think it should read something like
'The term "prostitution" is sometimes used in the more general meaning of having sex in order to achieve a certain goal different from the pleasure of having sex and with a motive other than an emotional feeling towards a person.'
thats my two cents, put in yours, salt28.
Axel, you wrote:
First off, I wasn't aware that there were "many" rich countries. Secondly, could you provide a source for illegal immigrants working as prostitutes against their will? Not that I'm doubting you, of course, but I'd like to be able to call the user's attention to sexual slavery, both in peacetime and in war conditions. -- Ed Poor
See for instance the last paragraph in http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1948407.stm. Similar articles appear daily in the European press, so you should easily be able to find more examples.
In The New York Times, June 9, 1993 "In Europe's brothel's, women from the East. (Eastern European women emigrate to Western Europe to become prostitutes, many times against their will)" Marlise Simons. AxelBoldt
I changed "generally stigmatized in western societies" back to "almost universally stigmatized", as non-western societies are typically much harsher towards prostitutes than western ones. AxelBoldt 00:23 Sep 26, 2002 (UTC)
We keep hearing about middle-class Japanese teenage girls who use cell phones to arrange prostitution work. Recently, with the rise of phones that can transmit images, they can even screen potential clients by, say, whether they look "kind".
I think we should mention the Japanese schoolgirl thing in the article. Also, we should address the ethical and/or moral issues. Like, do people apply different standards to the behavior of minors? How about the age of consent issue? What differentiates teen prostitution from child abuse (legally, at least)? And my favorite: what sort of man hires a 15-year-old girl to have sex with him? -- Ed Poor
"Prostitution occurs in massage parlors and, in Asian countries, in barber shops, where sexual services may be offered for an additional tip."
I would like to see the evidence to backup this claim, it seems like anti-asian propaganda to me.
I restored the Carribean as a sex tourist destination (which contains Cuba); in Europe, the Dominican republic especially is openly advertised for sex tourism. AxelBoldt 20:02 26 May 2003 (UTC)
the pictures shows a particular viewpoint on 'prostitution' as being ilicit or seedy, which is not necesarily true! it doesn't really ilustrate prostitution much, so i think we should get rid of it. no? qqq
Keep it. Vancouverguy 01:41, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
This is street prostitution we can add a legend. I hesitated a lot before uploading this photo. It's blurred enough not to hurt anyone. Of course this can't be very explicit. Ericd 01:46, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
put the pic. down with the 'street prostitution' bit ? qqq
Pimp includes both males and females, madam is female-only and brothel-specific. Martin 23:47, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
"Some municipalities in the Netherlands would like a "zero policy" for brothels, i.e. not allow any, on moral grounds, but by law this is not possible. However, regulations, including restrictions in number and location are common. Whether a zero policy on planological grounds is allowed is still unclear."
What does that last sentence mean? "Planological" doesn't appear in dictionary.com, and I have no idea what it is. Meelar 07:26, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
"various Communist countries being notable exceptions." As there's not so many communist in the world today I would wrote "were" can someone rework this phrase, please ? Ericd 22:15, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I was thinking it might be informative if someone could give an idea of the different classes of prostitutes and how much they charge; I'm afraid I don't know much about this.
Deco 17:15, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
street prostitutes
brothel prostitutes
in-call escorts
out-call escorts
social escorts
The distinction between a brothel prostitute and an in-call escort is a bit blurry at the edges, but in general brothels have a walk-up trade and in-call escorts require booking. Of course, in some cases a "regular" might have a walk-up arrangement with an in-call escort.
Many escorts do both in-call and out-call, usually charging a little more for out-call.
"Social escorts" are those who don't just offer sexual services, but will also accompany their client to a social event. Because they have to have social graces, intelligent conversation, etc. as well as being physically attractive, they tend to be a lot more expensive.
The most expensive fees are actually charged by well-known women from the sex industry who escort; generally that's either in-call in a hotel room booked for the purpose or out-call to a hotel. By no means do all porn stars escort, but many do, or have, or will. -- Po8crg 6 July 2005 22:52 (UTC)
Geisha is not prostitute. "The body is not sold if it sells an art" (芸は売っても身は売らない). Some geishas sell herself and they are looked down as "Daruma Geisha". So, they denied ask for Recreation and Amusement Association. -- Kadzuwo 14:01, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
The Geisha trade in Japan has often been connected with prostitution but is more along the lines of a courtesan or entertainer for the wealthy and well-connected of Japanese society. There are many similarities with the Tawaif system in India which was a similar system of female dancers and entertainers for the Muslim nobility. Sex services were typically not a part of the system (Although lower-grade Geisha or Tawaif may have supplemented their meager incomes as dancers by indulging in this to some extent).
Geisha would generally end up becoming mistresses for one of their rich and wealthy clients. This would, however, be a strictly one to one relationship and may last for several years, or in some cases for life. From a Western viewpoint the Geisha or Tawaif may seem to be simply a type of high class prostitute, although their services are primarily in the areas of entertainment, dance, song and evening entertainment rather than merely sexual services. Japan traditionally did have a highly developed prostitution trade which would have been distinct from the Geisha.
The article says this:
This goes contrary to every etymological dictionary I've looked at, all of which conclude that the English word whore is a Germanic word, hâra in Old English, cognate with Gothic hors, and also with Latin cara, "dear one." The Latin word hora was in fact borrowed into Old English and is the root of Modern English "hour", where its pronunciation /'aU ,@r/ represents what you would expect from ordinary phonological laws from that input. I believe this etymology is incorrect. Smerdis of Tlön 15:00, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
The verb to prostitute may be used thus: A writer prostituted his talents to write pamphlets supporting a political cause in which he did not believe. Given that use of the verb, perhaps using the word prostitute to refer to a person selling sex is not NPOV. Besides, shouldn't that more basic meaning of the word be the topic of an article? Michael Hardy 20:39, 3 May 2004 (UTC) padpad
Problem is, the basic meaning is the sexual one. The more general meaning is a later one reached by generalisation.
Wikipedia is not a dictionnary and this article is about "prostitution" not "prostitute".
In one sentence in the article, it states:
Shortly thereafter, it states:
These two sentences seem to say the opposite; is prostitution in the world mostly legal or mostly illegal — or something in-between? To whoever can clarify this, thanks. — Catdude
The following are all external links that may be useful for referencing the article. They have been removed from the article per policy. In essense a link is fine if it covers information not in the article if the article were written at a feature article status. The links below would not pass that level but many would be great sources for the article. Banjeboi 11:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
This description of "abolitionism" and "neo-abolitionism" is unreferenced and inaccurate. The established legal situation in France, UK, Canada, etc, is not "abolitionist" and I don't think its ever been described as such. "Neo-abolitionism", a term I haven't heard before, is what's generally referred to as "abolitionism", with the additional definition that prostitution is defined as inherently a form of slavery, which is why it uses a term borrowed (or, critics would say, appropriated) from anti-slavery. I'm unclear what the accepted term is for what is being referred to here as "abolitionism".
Generally, this section is roughly accurate on the 5 legal systems that, with some variation, different countries have adopted in regards to prostitution. "Regulation" is often referred to as "legalization" – if anything, that's the more common term. I think that the New Zealand system is simply a variation on legalization rather than decriminalization, but I'll have to look up in various references how this is treated. "Decriminalization" might be said to more accurately describe the situation in Spain, which has no laws on prostitution one way or the other.
example: Katie L
Some fact-checking from strong, verifiable sources is called for here. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 16:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a significant disagreement over 1) whether there is a consensus among academics and among feminists that prostitution is inherently non-consensual, and 2) how this affects the balance of views given on articles about prostitution and its legal status. This discussion affects not only the Prostitution article but several articles that have been broken away from it, Feminist views on prostitution, Prostitution (criminology), and Legality of prostitution, all of which are the subject of POV disputes at present. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 23:07, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
(Note that the discussion has already started in the above section, but should be continued here.) Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 23:08, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you please use this to show what causes prostitution, why we're still forced to need money? From " When Corporations Rule the World": "One of the major challenges faced by colonial administrators was to force those who obtained their livelihoods from their own lands and common areas to give their lands and labor to plantation development, that is, to make them dependent on a money economy so that their resources, labor, and consumption might yield PROFITS to the colonizers..... "In many colonized countries, the imposition of TAXES payable only in cash was used to force people into the cash economy.....Taxes were imposed on whatever villagers would find it most difficult to do without. In Vietnam, the French imposed taxes on salt, opium, and alcohol. The British in Sudan taxed crops, animals, houses, and households. In their West African colonies, the French punished tax evasion by holding wives and children hostage, whipping men, burning huts, and leaving people tied up without food for several days....." Stars4change ( talk) 01:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Prostitution not means only exchange sex for money, but also all the forms which included a recompense- money or products for sexual acts(which is not the same thing with every sexual activity such is masturbation for example).So, porno movies included sexual activities, precisely sex acts, and for this,pornographic actors can be considered, and they must be considered prostitutes.Is not the same kind of ordinary prostitution, but is a very real form of prostitution anyway.I can`t imagine a different right explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.100.249 ( talk) 09:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
In the politics section there needs to be more on the Sex Workers Outreach Project and Hookers, Escorts, and Masseurs Association SWOP & HEMA and other NGOs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.132.8 ( talk) 01:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
(Note: cross-posting to Talk:Babalon, Talk:Whore of Babylon, Talk:Prostitution)
At present the term "Scarlet woman" has three possible articles:
I would propose that both Scarlet woman and Scarlet woman be directed to a page giving links to each of the above articles. If there is no objection I will create the disambiguation page and change the redirects accordingly - does 48 hours seem like a reasonable interval? ElijahOmega ( talk) 12:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
The occurrence section needs to be seriously overhauled -- stating prevalence in Colorado (even if typical of the US) and Amsterdam (which is typical of what, exactly?) does not lead the reader to a more comprehensive understanding of the occurrence of prostitution. The occurrence section should talk about the rates of prostitution globally, illustrating this with case studies which could include Colarado/US and Amsterdam-London (Europe), however these studies should also include prostitution rates in specific areas of S America, Asia and Africa in order that the best overview of the topic can be obtained. Additionally, the global number of people estimated to be engaged in prostitution should be in a prominent location in the article's summary. With thanks, User:DJCF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.254.95 ( talk) 07:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I reverted these edits that replaced citations with original research.-- Nutriveg ( talk) 16:27, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm taking a class about the history of crime in the US. Wikipedia is presently very light on 18th century prostitution, but there's a very good book about the subject: Clare Lyon's "Sex Among the Rabble." You can read sections of the book at http://books.google.com/books?id=aLeWfe-oamcC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false. There are also decent academic reviews about the subject--I'll see if I can find any that are open-sourced, as well as other reliable sources for this information. I'm not asking others to write a section--I'll work on it myself when I have time. But I started this thread to see if other editors want to work on it, and to share sources. 69.94.192.147 ( talk) 15:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am a student taking a class on HIV, so I am not the most knowledgeable person writing here. This article suggests that prostitution has a very prominent role to play in the spread of HIV, and while it certainly is a factor, credible scientists and anthropologists have shown that it may not be the largest factor. The book The Invisible Cure: Africa, the West, and the Fight against AIDS, written in 2007 by Helen Epstein, states that Roy Anderson's "sexual mixing" theory, which argues that prostitution is mostly spread from prostitutes to truck drivers and migrant workers and then to the workers' communities, is no longer thought to be the major cause of the spread of HIV in most places. Prevention programs aimed at prostitutes and their clients had little effect. Moreover, Thailand's national HIV infection rate never exceeded 2 percent in the early 1990s, which doesn't make sense considering the number of prostitutes and their clients. Africa, with a much lower prostitution rate, had much higher rates of HIV. The book says that HIV is spread much faster in communities in which having a couple or a few concurrent relationships than in communities with a thriving sex trade. People who see prostitutes are not likely to do so often, and use condoms because of the high risk rate. Because HIV infection is a random process, the infection rate is low among clients who are not repeat customers. But in communities where people have concurrent relationships, there is a much higher level of trust and condoms are not often used. Because partners are having sexual intercourse many times, the likelihood of infection increases dramatically. This provides a breeding ground for HIV.
I think this article implies that prostitution is by far the most predominant, if not the only, cause of the spread of HIV. The concurrent relationship theory should be mentioned in addition to the sexual mixing theory. Laura Alexander2 ( talk) 04:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)Laura Alexander, March 6, 2010
I agree with some of the statements made above. The section on HIV and prostitution has extreme bias and is misleading. It addresses only prostitution in under-developed countries and does not discuss developed countries. Prostitution can be a vector for disease transmission, there's no doubt about it (as we see in Africa). However, injection drug use and concurrent relationships are the major method of transmission of HIV to sex-workers in many developed countries. Condom use by sex-workers is extremely high in the developed world and greatly reduces the risk of HIV transmission.... although I would not recommend enjoying the company of prostitutes.... I can direct towards some papers/references when I have more time. NN January 12, 2011
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My name is Laura Agustín PhD, my book on prostitution is Sex at the Margins, Zed Books 2007, my website is Border Thinking www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin . I have published extensively on prostitution and trafficking, am considered an international authority and have no intention of bashing any page on these subjects. There are links and ideas that I believe would enhance some pages; I was just going to start by adding a link to my work on the cultural study of commercial sex, or just my website. Time passes, there's more knowledge, etc. There's a wikip entry for me that isn't up to date but that's not so important. I don't want to do the work to add things if you are opposed.
Manyatlantics (
talk)
14:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Set Sail For The Seven Seas 223° 6' 15" NET 14:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I am Wikina, a researcher about the sex industry. I would be willing to add a few of Agustin's references to the prostitution entry if you agree. She is a light in the darkness for a lot of young researchers. My email is details removed
I'm referring to the picture on the top of the page, with the caption "A modern day street prostitute in Tijuana, Mexico". Do we have ANY evidence that she's actually a prostitute and not just, like, a girl an editor doesn't like? Josh ( talk) 20:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I am currently doing a college project about the ethics of prostitution. In short, My lecturer is adamant that the main reason for which some people want prostitution a crime is that members of the older generation were brought up very differently and wouldnt take things like safety, taxes, fueling crime, endangering prostitutes and making people criminals into consideration as they prefere to be formal/traditional. (how could one cite this? I currently cannot edit this page)
And that younger generations commonly dissaprove of prostitution, but do however see very little benefit in making it illegal. Which probably makes sense in terms of taxes, public order and safety and harm reduction. But of course the main benefit would lie in not having to put people in prison or paying to have them prosecuted etc. so that police time and effort can be spent more appropriately.
PS; any other tips/info on anything ive missed would be usefull. —Preceding unsignedcomment added by 82.30.229.218 ( talk) 01:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Is anyone interested in reworking the intro copy? It's not very accurate the way it is written now. Prostitution is the act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire. There are other people who engage in sex acts for hire who are not prostitutes, porn models for example. As an extreme example, doctors perform various "sex acts" including sexual penetration and get paid for it, and their acts are not considered prostitution.
I suggest: A prostitute is a sex worker who works in the sex industry and provides sexual services for hire. Prostitution is known as the world's oldest profession, dating back to as long as people can remember. In most modern cultures, prostitution is either discouraged or illegal. However, the global sex industry generates over $100 billion in annual revenue.
The next section can be etymology, addressing how the word came about and its metaphor.
I recommend moving human traficking to its own section.
Feel to write your own version. USchick ( talk) 02:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
I changed the most recent changes back to the previous intro for the following reason.What does everyone else think. Fisrt, I changed sexual intercourse to sexual services because I think intercourse is too limiting. If intercourse does not occur, does it mean prostitution did not occur? Second, the very aspect of prostitution involves money, and I think the source I put in is not "weak" as the previous edit said. I think any discussion involving prostitution should include the aspect of money and possible estimates, and the link shows an accumulation of various prostitution industries around the world Hawaiianfighter ( talk)
Isn't the statement "In most modern cultures, prostitution is either discouraged or illegal" backwards? Most of the countries where prostitution is legal and regulated are western countries. I'd remove that but the page is protected. 169.233.38.156 ( talk) 05:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
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In the paragraph titled "Other meanings" the quote, "Now he's out in Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention them to me." is followed by "D.B. is of course not literally a prostitute; Holden feels that his job writing B-movie screenplays is morally debasing."
The "of course" in this paragraph is an opinion and should not be included in a encyclopedia. Sry for being picky lol.
Shanyman ( talk) 13:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
"See also:
There is a short paragraph directly under the heading of "Relation to Crime" that states.
"One of the most serious problems associated with prostitution is the fact that the sex trade is surrounded by illegal, abusive and dangerous activities.[citation needed] One view insists that such situations occur because prostitution is kept illegal and the industry operates on the black market.[citation needed] "
I'm not so sure if these two sentences should even be in there. Especially since you may notice, there are NO citations for either of these ascertaitions (sp). Actually, the main issue I have is with the first sentence and the phrasing of, "....is the fact that the sex trade.... " If these things are facts, where is the research(or citation) that shows such things. At least change it to "it is believed" or something similar. But, stating something as a fact(especially in a hotly debated article such as this one), and then not at least provide a citation, isn't right imo.
The second sentence isnt as bad. But saying, "One view insists...", and then not having a citation to at least let us know who's view it is that "insists" these things, doesn't really make any sense either.
I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.179.248.24 ( talk) 21:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
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Surely this paragraph is irrelevent here:
It definitely doesn't belong in the Legal and socio-economic status section, and it isn't important enough to be in the rest of the article either. -- 118.208.114.96 ( talk) 09:06, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
whats the matter? no links to capitalism for prostitution? is this website too liberal to challenge capitalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4535t43g ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
I think the lead sentence that TJ and others are arguing about is sensationalist commentary since there is no reason to emphasize the size of the slave trade in history, it being true that the whole human population is far larger than in past periods and so that the comparison is highly misleading, and since for the same reason its absolute rate of growth is equally doubtful as important.
BUT I do not support replacing this sentence immediately because it simply reflects its section, the whole of which is a complete mess. What is really needed is for the section to be cleaned up and THEN the unneeded sentence can be replaced with another. It should not simply be removed. — K. the Surveyor (talk) 00:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Prophet Mohammed had banned temporary marriage, some of what written in this article is based on no fact. The temporary marriage as explained in the article is unaccepted in Islam. Bombastic4ever ( talk) 14:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is true. What is written in the first line in the article at section 2.5 i.e. 'Asia' is wrong. That line needs to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.70.4 ( talk) 13:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Completely agree, you can't be writing such stuff here without any proof. The reference provided is a book written by some person (anyone can write a book without knowing the facts). Also even that book doesn't contain what has been mentioned in the first line. Please remove the erroneous sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.244.76 ( talk) 19:30, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
The first line under the heading of Asia is nonsense.It is not fact,and is insulting towards the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah's peace and blessing be upon him).Concerning the temporary marriage I will quote from "Mut'ah: The sunni and shi'ah perspectives on marriage" by Dr.Ahmed Abdullah Salamah,Abdul_qasim Publishing House,1995.Pages 2-4©ABDUL-QASIM PUBLISHING HOUSE,1995 ing Fahd national Library Catalogin-Publication Data Salamah,Ahmad Abdullah Mut'ah-the sunni and shiah perspectives on marriage 32p 13.5x21 cm ISBN:9960-792-53-6 1.Muta2.Marriage (Islamic Law) I.Title 254.16 dc Legal Deposit no.1030/16 ISBN:9960-792-53-6 are quoted below;
"Sunnis acknowledge that mut'ah was a common practice during the pre-Islamic days of ignorance (jahiliyyah) in Arabia.It is stated in at-Tirmidhi's book of hadith in the chapter on marriage that when a man would go to a strange village where he had no acquaintance,he would marry a woman for as long period as he thought that he would stay so that she could take care of him and his property.This practice continued during the early days of Islam until the Qur'an revealed "...And those who abstain from sexual intercourse except with their wives or those [women] whom their right hands possess."(Surah al Mu'minun,23:5-6)
The Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam(Gibbs,H.A.R. and Kramer,J.H.,Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam,Leiden:J.R.Brill,1961.) also states that mut'ah was a common practice among Arab travelers and goes back to the fourth century A.D. "When a stranger came to a village and had no place to stay,he would marry a woman for a short time so that she would be his partner in bed and take care of his property."Caeteni also concluded that mut'ah in the pagan period was religious prostitution that took place during the occasion of hajj.(Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam,page 419)".
Thus,mut'ah was a loose sexual practice during the pre-Islamic days of ignorance in Arabia.Being an old and established institution ,it continued during the early days of Islam.The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) also allowed it temporarily on two other occasions,but only under strict,exceptional conditions-during the conquest of Khaybar and during the conquest of Makkah-fearing that those Muslims whose faith was not yet strong might commit adultery during Jihad.Shi'ahs widely quote hadiths in relation to these events to support their continued belief in mut'ah.Sunnis accept these hadiths but add that they happened before all of the revelations of the Qur'an were revealed and the religion completed.
Historians and commentators on the Qur'an and hadith agree that Islam eradicated most social evils in a gradual way.It is well known that practices like gambling,drinking,and the eating of pork and blood were common during the early days but were gradually prohibited.Likewise it seems probable that mut'ah was first forbidden to those at Khaybar in the year 7 A.H and was then completely prohibited to all upon the conquest of Makkah in 8 A.H
several traditions of the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) regarding mut'ah are well documented in books of hadith,such as the following: 'Ali reported:"On the day of the conquest o Khaybar the Prophet(may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade mut'ah and [eating] the flesh of a donkey."(narrated in Muslim) 'Sabrah bin Ma'bad al-Jihani reported: "I went forth with the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) for the conquest of Makkah,and he (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) allowed us mut'ah with women.But we had not even left the city [yet] when it was prohibited by the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him)."(narrated in Muslim)
According to al-Bayhaqi,Ja'far as-Sadiq,the sixth Shi'ah imam,regarded mut'ah as fornication(Fath ul-Bari,p.173).And Ali is reported by ad-Darqutni to have said that mut'ah was abrogated when the Qur'anic verses about marriage,divorce,iddah(Mandatory period of waiting before a widowed or divorced woman can remarry.),and inheritance was revealed(Muslehuddin,M.,Muta,Lahore,Pakistan:Islamic publication Ltd.,1974,page 11).Additionaally,there are four hadiths quoted in Shaeeh al-Bukhari under the title "The Prophet Finally Forbade Mut'ah."Three of these relate to the incidents of mut'ah during the early period of Islam.IOn the fourth hadith Ali said to Ibn Abbas that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade mut'ah and the meat of domesticated donkeys on the day of Khaybar.And in Saheeh Muslim a group of traditions which go back to Sabrah bin Ma'bad substantiate the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) permitted mut'ah in the year of the conquest of Makkah.Sabrah went with a companion to a woman,and each offered her a cloak in exchange for mut'ah.She chose the younger person with a shabbier cloak (i.e Sabrah) and slept with him for three nights.Thereafter,the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade it forever." Textcorrectorsir ( talk) 08:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)textcorrectorsir [1]
On the map, prostituion is marked as legal and regulated in Denmark. This is not the case. It is legal to sell and buy sex, but it is not regulated as such. Totally different from the forms of prostitution in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.113.66.145 ( talk) 22:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Prostitution in Denmark is NOT marked on the map as regulated, Denmark is shown in blue, the color of regulated prostitution is green. 123username ( talk) 22:53, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
While I fully support this subject, why are there none for female sex workers? There should be tons of interesting and suitable stuff to write about this. Just that it hasn't been started? ( 46.239.122.40 ( talk) 17:26, 26 May 2011 (UTC))
Paying For It is a autobiographical book published in 2011 that is all about a person's experience being a "John" in Canada. As it is written intellectually with a lot of arguments in favor of legalizing it, it should be considered addding it to this article as a reference. Would others agree? Or does this rather not belong here? Tempel ( talk) 16:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I wanted to draw attention to several articles that have been broken out of this one and have had subsequent additions that raise serious WP:NPOV problems. These articles are essentially POV forks. The articles in question are Feminist views on prostitution, Prostitution (criminology), and Legality of prostitution (specifically, the " Debate_over_legalization" section). These forks are quite blatantly one-sided, presenting an anti-prostitution/"prostitution abolitionist" position as basically the sole political and academic view on the subject. These articles are now severely unbalanced and in violation of WP:NPOV.
The thing is, some of these subjects are large enough topics to break out into their own articles. However, it seems that in practice, the purpose of breaking these sections out into independent articles was to create editorializing articles away from watchful eyes in the original article.
I am requesting more eyes on these articles and help in reintegrating these related articles (note: I don't mean merging them back) back into simple content breakouts rather than overlapping or POV forks. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 19:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh yes, there is an academic consensus, and by the way, Barbara Sullivan, who wrote this, is not on the "anti-prostitution side". ` 123username ( talk) 22:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, since I think its pretty obvious that we're just going to go around and around in this dispute, I'm creating a request for discussion in a new section. Some third-party intervention would be very helpful here. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 22:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Reply: I know my response is a bit belated, but since other people might be reading this I figured I would put my 2 cents in :-) I agree with Iamcuriousblue here. Stating that there is an academic consensus on the issue of prostitution is totally false & saying "oh yes there is" is not a strong argument to convince anyone that that is true. Anyone who takes the time to do even a little research will find that this is the case; there are many differing opinions among academics, feminists and even prostitutes themselves - there is not even a general consensus, let alone a complete consensus. I will keep my personal opinions to myself here because I don't believe this is an appropriate forum to soap-box about one's opinions on the "morality" of prostitution or what should be done regarding changing laws etc. As to the original subject, I agree that "POV" articles - one-sided biased viewpoints - do not belong on Wikipedia. MsBatfish ( talk) 04:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I've heard a lot about pimps or johns being dangerously violent towards these girls, but have there been any cases where prostitutes were violent against one another? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.4.128.166 ( talk) 23:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Reply: I am not sure what this has to do with the article? Are you just asking out of curiosity or are you implying that you think this is something that should be covered in the article on prostitution? MsBatfish ( talk) 04:39, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest deleting the section on consent for the following reasons:
1 It is heavily biased. The two authors cited are well known anti prostitution activists, MacKinnon presented as so (lawyer and activist), but not Farley (psychologist and researcher). No other POV are presented.
2 The use of wording like “vast majority” (MacKinnon) and “she estimates that only 5%” (Farly) suggests that they rely on empirical evidence. They do not, or at least none of the reference links provided come close to help finding such empirical evidence. It is said that “Psychologist and researcher Melissa Farley offers a great deal of research suggesting that very few prostitutes (she estimates that only 5% of women) make the choice freely”. If there is such of great deal of research, a few of them should be cited. Farley’s Internet site on prostitution sometimes says that some of their numbers are “educated guesses”. These guesses, I suggest, are often heavily biased by the ideological POV of their authors and are not materiel for an encyclopedia.
3 Consent is a complex term that may be defined differently by the tribunals, by the psychologists and labour management organisations. The lack of definition seems to permit the citation of a the New York Times columnist Bob Herbert saying “Surveys consistently show that a majority of prostitutes would like to leave the industry.” That is by no mean a proof that there is a lack of consent. A prostitute may want to leave because of the social pressure, job conditions, money matters, a better project, etc.
4 Prostitution being largely an under world, even in countries where it is legal, it is virtually impossible to get representative samples. Serious attempts to build good and large samples such as those made before and after the Prostitution Reform Act in New Zealand are indeed very rare. When reading the section about avoidance and exiting the sex industry, we find quite different conclusions than the “educated guesses” of Farley and MacKinnon ( http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/plrc-report/5-avoiding-or-exiting-the-sex-industry#521). When analysing all the “push and pull” factors explaining entering/remaining/exiting prostitution, it is hard to reduce the notion of consent to a yes or no answer.
5 Some authors conclude easily that there is rarely a true consent based of the presumption that entry in prostitution is at an early age, using average ages as low as 12 to 14 years old. Professor and activist Richard Poulain, for instance, says that the average age of entry in prostitution in Canada is 14 years old, a number inferred either from outside Canada or from small samples of street prostitutes. The New Zealand sample (N=771), a country comparable to Canada in many respects, shows different figures: the vast majority (81%) of prostitutes entered the industry when they were 18 or over. ( http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/impact-health-safety/4.-socio-demographic-characteristics-of-the-survey-and-qualitative-samples#table41) see section 4.2.3
My first contribution on wiki, sorry if any rule infringement.
Gustave55555 ( talk) 01:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Reply: I second this motion. This section needs re-working. I think the idea that there can be no consent in prostitution is not only untrue, it is totally biased and inherently offensive towards women. If the viewpoints of anti-prostitution activists are going to be included they should at the very least be properly attributed as such and countered with quotes and studies which offer other viewpoints. MsBatfish ( talk) 05:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
What do people think about the See alsos? Currently they are:
That's a pretty random collection of topics related and tangentially related to prostitution. I'm not sure what a good standard is, and I think inevitably there'll be some POV pushing on what to include or not. Any thoughts? TJ Black ( talk) 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Reply: Some of them don't even seem to be related to prostitution at all!?! And there are articles that are far more significantly related to prostitution than any of these which are not linked in the "See Also". Personally I think the following should be removed, as most of them or not related to the topic at all, or if there is any link it is only a very fine thread ("tangentially related" as TJBlack said): - Köçek - Turkish bath - Bacchá - Hijra (South Asia) - Nikah mut‘ah - Top (BDSM)
In addition I don't see the need for including Recreation and Amusement Association when the main article on Comfort women is already included on the list.
Does anyone object to any of these article links being removed from "See Also"?? Ideas on which articles should be added? Thanks :-) MsBatfish ( talk) 07:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
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Major NPOV problem here. The whole feminist section is a diatribe against radical feminism. It needs to be fixed.
-Should "whore" redirect here? I thought sex workers viewed that term as a perjorative.
Two points. 1. Regarding the section in history regarding Greek and Roman societies, does the author deliberately use the words "common prositute", because these (at least in the UK) have a very specific meaning.
2. Legality situation in the UK is quite simple: The paying for sexual favours, and accepting payment for them is legal.
It is however illegal to pimp due to regulations regarding living off immoral earnings. Sexual Offences Act 1956? Common prostitutes (that being, prostitutes working on the street which have been cautioned repeatedly by the police) have a number of other restrictions as to what they can or cannot do, and can commit a number of other offences (including loitering with intent). Street Offences Act 1959? Brothels are restricted by various legislation including not having planning permission, and I believe illegality of owning a bawdy house. It is also typically against tenancy agreements. Phonebox advertising is not legal, as far as I am aware, and the is against the BT contracts as well. Kerb Crawling is also an offence, under the Street Offences Act 1984 and was made an arrestable offence in 2001.
ASBO's are also being used by neighbours of prostitutes to stop them working.
So, to summarise, if you were to meet someone and simply pay them for sex, then it's entirely possible neither of you have broken the law (unless you're both of the same sex and then it's possible you might have broken the law) subject to consent etc..
However, if you organise or manage prostitutes then you are breaking the law.
The basis of this information in this discussion note comes from a dinner party I had with someone who works with the CPS and a "working girl". (And yes, I have interesting dinner parties).
--
Prostitution is not prohibited in Holland and most of Europe? Where are the facts to back this up. I believe prostitution is actually against the law in Holland, although the authorities turn a blind eye (i may be wrong about this)
I don't know of any other European countries where prostitution is legal. The only place i know of is the state of Nevada in the US.
Maybe i'm wrong - JamieTheFoool
Ericd 22:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)~
My $0.02 says that it's illegal in Sweden. -- Pinkunicorn
Uhhhh - and though prostitution is USED in many (shall we say 'all'?)societies, prostitutes are certainly scorned in scoieties touched by, say, Hinduism and Buddhism. --MichaelTinkler
---
I edited your otherwise valid points to remove troll-like behaviour. These are decent issues, why not research and write about it yourself?
--- Regarding the situation in the Netherlands: Prostitution has always been legal, but holding a brothel was not. That is, the prostitute and the customer were legal, but the pimp was not. However, this was understandably not prosecuted. In October 2000 a new law went into effect where also this was made legal. So, nowadays prostitution is fully legal (provided no minors or illegal immigrants are prostituted, taxes are paid, municipal regulations are adhered to and such).
Regarding Sweden, I think I read somewhere that it was made illegal quite recently. -- Andre Engels
Correction and/or clarification: In Sweden, prostitution itself is not a crime, but purchase of prostitution sevices is. Strange but true. --Anders T?rlind
Oooh - and in a bizarre opposite to the situation in Holland, in the city of Atlanta, Georgia, in the 1980s and 90s in response to the competing pressures of neighborhood groups and the convention trade the City came to a modus vivendi - streetwalkers were prosecuted but houses of prostitution were not. Prostitution remained illegal but tolerated. Now this is mere anecdote - I'm sure you can't find it anywhere stated thus in the Atlanta Journal Constitution archives, but it was all over the alternative press. It wasn't the sex, it wasn't the exploitation, it was the sidewalk nuisance that irritated people. --MichaelTinkler
... Prostitution is legal in small counties in Nevada. It's heavily regulated though and can only legally take place in licensed brothels. --AxelBoldt
It is not legal in Las Vegas, itself, or the rest of surrounding Clark County. An interesting bit of trivia is that the IRS briefly owned and auctioned off the Mustang Ranch, the first legal brothel in Nevada. --[User:Belltower]]
The relevant law is NRSNRS 244.345 (Dancing halls, escort services, entertainment by referral services and gambling games or devices; limitation on licensing of houses of prostitution.):
Not sure about Europe, but there would be at least a few countries there where it is legal. Holland, Germany, and the England would be my first guesses.
It is legal in parts of Australia, with regulations that vary from state to state. Definitely legal in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory, for prostitutes working in brothels. For further information try http://138.25.65.50/databases.html then go to the relevant state or territory link and search for "prostitution". Then try to understand the maze of ammendments and horrible legal language:-) http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_act/pa1992205/index.html gives (some of) the ACT rules. The NSW situation is spread over lots of acts and ammendments and will be harder to pin down. Alternatively, just look in the phone books for Sydney or Canberra where there are plenty of brothels openly advertising.
Escorts and brothels are legal and common in Victoria as well, with restrictions (zoning restrictions, maximum size, can't advertise for sex workers, etc. etc.). Streetwalking is illegal, but there have been serious discussions about whether the restriction should be lifted in certain areas. -- Robert Merkel
Prostitutuin is definately not legal in England or any other part of the United Kingdom, or Ireland for that matter. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in Germany too, and france, and Spain. - JamieTheFoool
Prostitution itself is legal in the UK, but there are laws against various related activities. -- Zundark
On a totally different note, I believe I heard somewhere that various primates also show behaviour that could be classified as prostitution. Anyone who have information about this would do well to add it to the page. --Anders T?rlind
Prostitution is legal in Germany. All big cities have areas where streetwalkers are allowed; these zones are set my municipal governments. Most cities have city-licensed brothels. Apartment prostitution is widespread and legal. Prostitution does not count as a regular profession and prostitutes are not elligible for typical German worker benefits such as health, unemployment, accident and disability insurance, social security, guaranteed vacation, right to strike etc. They cannot join private health insurance plans unless they lie about their job. The current government is about to change that and accept prostitution as a profession.
A quirk of civil law makes it possible that a customer of a prostitute may refuse to pay after the fact without culpability (since the contract was "against the good morals"). If the prostitute refuses services after having been paid, she is prosecuted for fraud. This is also being changed.
Maintaining a luxurious brothel is a grey area: the owner can be prosecuted for "furtherance of prostitution" which is, along with pimping, illegal. Mostly, the luxurious brothels are tolerated though, unless they employ illegal immigrants or are owned by organized crime.
There are also lots of fly-by-night brothels where foreign prostitutes (from Eastern Europe, Thailand, Africa, South America) are held against their will, which is of course illegal.
Prostitution is legal in Spain too, but I don't have details.
The comment that male prostitution for female clients is negligible sounded like an exaggeration. While they are undoubtedly rare compared to female prostitutes, they do exist.
Where do people who work in porn films fit in this article?
I wrote: "In many rich countries, illegal immigrants work in prostitution, quite commonly against their will." I'm not sure if "quite commonly" is the right choice of words. I know only the situation in Germany, and you'll find news reports maybe once a month about prostitutes being freed by police, so it definitely exists. It also is doubtlessly true that many foreign prostitutes work in Germany on their own choosing: it is the quickest way to make lots of money without an education. Now I don't know whether forced or unforced prostitution among immigrants is more common, and I don't think there are any statistics. So is "quite commonly" a good choice of words or is it not neutral enough? --AxelBoldt
"Law enforcement is typically concentrated against establishments engaged in sexual slavery, against establishments owned by organized crime and against forms of prostitution that generate citizen complaints." ... For this to be balanced, it should be added that the police have traditionally participated by accepting favors from prostitutes and in extorting money from prostitutes.
I deleted "eliminating sexual slavery" from the list of reasons given for heavy regulation of prostitution. I have never heard that as a justification, nor can I see how it would work. Nevada for instance explicitly mentions STD control (and mandates condoms), but sexual slavery is not mentioned. Countries usually focus on public health issues, making sure that the workers get health checks and are registered with the government etc., and they also want to control where prostitution takes place. Sexual slavery is as prevalent in regulating countries as it is in prohibitory countries. Illegal immigrants in Germany for instance cannot be registered as prostitutes and are therefore easy to exploit by organized crime. Complete decriminalization like in the Netherlands seems to be the better strategy if one wanted to give exploited women a way out. --AxelBoldt
One, George Peppard was not in My Fair Lady -- it was Breakfast at Tiffany's a howling mistake!
Two, This article reads like a prurient high-schooler's views of prostitution -- based largely on TV movies.
This needs to have some serious analysis of social implications, political positions, and generally some meat injected.
I don't know the details of the new German law, but I wonder if the German and Dutch situations are now sufficiently similar that we can mention them together in the preceding paragraph. Can prostitutes in Germany now buy health insurance, and can they join the social security system? --AxelBoldt
'The term "prostitution" is sometimes used in the more general meaning of having sex in order to achieve a certain goal different from the pleasure of having sex.'
i'm new and my shift key is broken, so i don't want to edit the actual article just yet, until i repair my shift key and get the feel of wikipedia.
anyway i think the quoted statement, in the beginning of the article, isn't totally accurate. lets say a couple wants to have a child, usually it takes some tries. after about ten tries some couples will continue not for the pleasure of the sex, but for the child. or if i'm feeling particularly horny and my wife isn't, or vice versa, she might give in to satisfy my needs, and with a happy hart of course, nobody wants sex with an irritated person , i think.
i think it should read something like
'The term "prostitution" is sometimes used in the more general meaning of having sex in order to achieve a certain goal different from the pleasure of having sex and with a motive other than an emotional feeling towards a person.'
thats my two cents, put in yours, salt28.
Axel, you wrote:
First off, I wasn't aware that there were "many" rich countries. Secondly, could you provide a source for illegal immigrants working as prostitutes against their will? Not that I'm doubting you, of course, but I'd like to be able to call the user's attention to sexual slavery, both in peacetime and in war conditions. -- Ed Poor
See for instance the last paragraph in http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1948407.stm. Similar articles appear daily in the European press, so you should easily be able to find more examples.
In The New York Times, June 9, 1993 "In Europe's brothel's, women from the East. (Eastern European women emigrate to Western Europe to become prostitutes, many times against their will)" Marlise Simons. AxelBoldt
I changed "generally stigmatized in western societies" back to "almost universally stigmatized", as non-western societies are typically much harsher towards prostitutes than western ones. AxelBoldt 00:23 Sep 26, 2002 (UTC)
We keep hearing about middle-class Japanese teenage girls who use cell phones to arrange prostitution work. Recently, with the rise of phones that can transmit images, they can even screen potential clients by, say, whether they look "kind".
I think we should mention the Japanese schoolgirl thing in the article. Also, we should address the ethical and/or moral issues. Like, do people apply different standards to the behavior of minors? How about the age of consent issue? What differentiates teen prostitution from child abuse (legally, at least)? And my favorite: what sort of man hires a 15-year-old girl to have sex with him? -- Ed Poor
"Prostitution occurs in massage parlors and, in Asian countries, in barber shops, where sexual services may be offered for an additional tip."
I would like to see the evidence to backup this claim, it seems like anti-asian propaganda to me.
I restored the Carribean as a sex tourist destination (which contains Cuba); in Europe, the Dominican republic especially is openly advertised for sex tourism. AxelBoldt 20:02 26 May 2003 (UTC)
the pictures shows a particular viewpoint on 'prostitution' as being ilicit or seedy, which is not necesarily true! it doesn't really ilustrate prostitution much, so i think we should get rid of it. no? qqq
Keep it. Vancouverguy 01:41, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
This is street prostitution we can add a legend. I hesitated a lot before uploading this photo. It's blurred enough not to hurt anyone. Of course this can't be very explicit. Ericd 01:46, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
put the pic. down with the 'street prostitution' bit ? qqq
Pimp includes both males and females, madam is female-only and brothel-specific. Martin 23:47, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
"Some municipalities in the Netherlands would like a "zero policy" for brothels, i.e. not allow any, on moral grounds, but by law this is not possible. However, regulations, including restrictions in number and location are common. Whether a zero policy on planological grounds is allowed is still unclear."
What does that last sentence mean? "Planological" doesn't appear in dictionary.com, and I have no idea what it is. Meelar 07:26, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
"various Communist countries being notable exceptions." As there's not so many communist in the world today I would wrote "were" can someone rework this phrase, please ? Ericd 22:15, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I was thinking it might be informative if someone could give an idea of the different classes of prostitutes and how much they charge; I'm afraid I don't know much about this.
Deco 17:15, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
street prostitutes
brothel prostitutes
in-call escorts
out-call escorts
social escorts
The distinction between a brothel prostitute and an in-call escort is a bit blurry at the edges, but in general brothels have a walk-up trade and in-call escorts require booking. Of course, in some cases a "regular" might have a walk-up arrangement with an in-call escort.
Many escorts do both in-call and out-call, usually charging a little more for out-call.
"Social escorts" are those who don't just offer sexual services, but will also accompany their client to a social event. Because they have to have social graces, intelligent conversation, etc. as well as being physically attractive, they tend to be a lot more expensive.
The most expensive fees are actually charged by well-known women from the sex industry who escort; generally that's either in-call in a hotel room booked for the purpose or out-call to a hotel. By no means do all porn stars escort, but many do, or have, or will. -- Po8crg 6 July 2005 22:52 (UTC)
Geisha is not prostitute. "The body is not sold if it sells an art" (芸は売っても身は売らない). Some geishas sell herself and they are looked down as "Daruma Geisha". So, they denied ask for Recreation and Amusement Association. -- Kadzuwo 14:01, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
The Geisha trade in Japan has often been connected with prostitution but is more along the lines of a courtesan or entertainer for the wealthy and well-connected of Japanese society. There are many similarities with the Tawaif system in India which was a similar system of female dancers and entertainers for the Muslim nobility. Sex services were typically not a part of the system (Although lower-grade Geisha or Tawaif may have supplemented their meager incomes as dancers by indulging in this to some extent).
Geisha would generally end up becoming mistresses for one of their rich and wealthy clients. This would, however, be a strictly one to one relationship and may last for several years, or in some cases for life. From a Western viewpoint the Geisha or Tawaif may seem to be simply a type of high class prostitute, although their services are primarily in the areas of entertainment, dance, song and evening entertainment rather than merely sexual services. Japan traditionally did have a highly developed prostitution trade which would have been distinct from the Geisha.
The article says this:
This goes contrary to every etymological dictionary I've looked at, all of which conclude that the English word whore is a Germanic word, hâra in Old English, cognate with Gothic hors, and also with Latin cara, "dear one." The Latin word hora was in fact borrowed into Old English and is the root of Modern English "hour", where its pronunciation /'aU ,@r/ represents what you would expect from ordinary phonological laws from that input. I believe this etymology is incorrect. Smerdis of Tlön 15:00, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
The verb to prostitute may be used thus: A writer prostituted his talents to write pamphlets supporting a political cause in which he did not believe. Given that use of the verb, perhaps using the word prostitute to refer to a person selling sex is not NPOV. Besides, shouldn't that more basic meaning of the word be the topic of an article? Michael Hardy 20:39, 3 May 2004 (UTC) padpad
Problem is, the basic meaning is the sexual one. The more general meaning is a later one reached by generalisation.
Wikipedia is not a dictionnary and this article is about "prostitution" not "prostitute".
In one sentence in the article, it states:
Shortly thereafter, it states:
These two sentences seem to say the opposite; is prostitution in the world mostly legal or mostly illegal — or something in-between? To whoever can clarify this, thanks. — Catdude
The following are all external links that may be useful for referencing the article. They have been removed from the article per policy. In essense a link is fine if it covers information not in the article if the article were written at a feature article status. The links below would not pass that level but many would be great sources for the article. Banjeboi 11:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
This description of "abolitionism" and "neo-abolitionism" is unreferenced and inaccurate. The established legal situation in France, UK, Canada, etc, is not "abolitionist" and I don't think its ever been described as such. "Neo-abolitionism", a term I haven't heard before, is what's generally referred to as "abolitionism", with the additional definition that prostitution is defined as inherently a form of slavery, which is why it uses a term borrowed (or, critics would say, appropriated) from anti-slavery. I'm unclear what the accepted term is for what is being referred to here as "abolitionism".
Generally, this section is roughly accurate on the 5 legal systems that, with some variation, different countries have adopted in regards to prostitution. "Regulation" is often referred to as "legalization" – if anything, that's the more common term. I think that the New Zealand system is simply a variation on legalization rather than decriminalization, but I'll have to look up in various references how this is treated. "Decriminalization" might be said to more accurately describe the situation in Spain, which has no laws on prostitution one way or the other.
example: Katie L
Some fact-checking from strong, verifiable sources is called for here. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 16:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a significant disagreement over 1) whether there is a consensus among academics and among feminists that prostitution is inherently non-consensual, and 2) how this affects the balance of views given on articles about prostitution and its legal status. This discussion affects not only the Prostitution article but several articles that have been broken away from it, Feminist views on prostitution, Prostitution (criminology), and Legality of prostitution, all of which are the subject of POV disputes at present. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 23:07, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
(Note that the discussion has already started in the above section, but should be continued here.) Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 23:08, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Could you please use this to show what causes prostitution, why we're still forced to need money? From " When Corporations Rule the World": "One of the major challenges faced by colonial administrators was to force those who obtained their livelihoods from their own lands and common areas to give their lands and labor to plantation development, that is, to make them dependent on a money economy so that their resources, labor, and consumption might yield PROFITS to the colonizers..... "In many colonized countries, the imposition of TAXES payable only in cash was used to force people into the cash economy.....Taxes were imposed on whatever villagers would find it most difficult to do without. In Vietnam, the French imposed taxes on salt, opium, and alcohol. The British in Sudan taxed crops, animals, houses, and households. In their West African colonies, the French punished tax evasion by holding wives and children hostage, whipping men, burning huts, and leaving people tied up without food for several days....." Stars4change ( talk) 01:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Prostitution not means only exchange sex for money, but also all the forms which included a recompense- money or products for sexual acts(which is not the same thing with every sexual activity such is masturbation for example).So, porno movies included sexual activities, precisely sex acts, and for this,pornographic actors can be considered, and they must be considered prostitutes.Is not the same kind of ordinary prostitution, but is a very real form of prostitution anyway.I can`t imagine a different right explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.100.249 ( talk) 09:17, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
In the politics section there needs to be more on the Sex Workers Outreach Project and Hookers, Escorts, and Masseurs Association SWOP & HEMA and other NGOs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.132.8 ( talk) 01:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
(Note: cross-posting to Talk:Babalon, Talk:Whore of Babylon, Talk:Prostitution)
At present the term "Scarlet woman" has three possible articles:
I would propose that both Scarlet woman and Scarlet woman be directed to a page giving links to each of the above articles. If there is no objection I will create the disambiguation page and change the redirects accordingly - does 48 hours seem like a reasonable interval? ElijahOmega ( talk) 12:12, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
The occurrence section needs to be seriously overhauled -- stating prevalence in Colorado (even if typical of the US) and Amsterdam (which is typical of what, exactly?) does not lead the reader to a more comprehensive understanding of the occurrence of prostitution. The occurrence section should talk about the rates of prostitution globally, illustrating this with case studies which could include Colarado/US and Amsterdam-London (Europe), however these studies should also include prostitution rates in specific areas of S America, Asia and Africa in order that the best overview of the topic can be obtained. Additionally, the global number of people estimated to be engaged in prostitution should be in a prominent location in the article's summary. With thanks, User:DJCF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.254.95 ( talk) 07:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I reverted these edits that replaced citations with original research.-- Nutriveg ( talk) 16:27, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm taking a class about the history of crime in the US. Wikipedia is presently very light on 18th century prostitution, but there's a very good book about the subject: Clare Lyon's "Sex Among the Rabble." You can read sections of the book at http://books.google.com/books?id=aLeWfe-oamcC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false. There are also decent academic reviews about the subject--I'll see if I can find any that are open-sourced, as well as other reliable sources for this information. I'm not asking others to write a section--I'll work on it myself when I have time. But I started this thread to see if other editors want to work on it, and to share sources. 69.94.192.147 ( talk) 15:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am a student taking a class on HIV, so I am not the most knowledgeable person writing here. This article suggests that prostitution has a very prominent role to play in the spread of HIV, and while it certainly is a factor, credible scientists and anthropologists have shown that it may not be the largest factor. The book The Invisible Cure: Africa, the West, and the Fight against AIDS, written in 2007 by Helen Epstein, states that Roy Anderson's "sexual mixing" theory, which argues that prostitution is mostly spread from prostitutes to truck drivers and migrant workers and then to the workers' communities, is no longer thought to be the major cause of the spread of HIV in most places. Prevention programs aimed at prostitutes and their clients had little effect. Moreover, Thailand's national HIV infection rate never exceeded 2 percent in the early 1990s, which doesn't make sense considering the number of prostitutes and their clients. Africa, with a much lower prostitution rate, had much higher rates of HIV. The book says that HIV is spread much faster in communities in which having a couple or a few concurrent relationships than in communities with a thriving sex trade. People who see prostitutes are not likely to do so often, and use condoms because of the high risk rate. Because HIV infection is a random process, the infection rate is low among clients who are not repeat customers. But in communities where people have concurrent relationships, there is a much higher level of trust and condoms are not often used. Because partners are having sexual intercourse many times, the likelihood of infection increases dramatically. This provides a breeding ground for HIV.
I think this article implies that prostitution is by far the most predominant, if not the only, cause of the spread of HIV. The concurrent relationship theory should be mentioned in addition to the sexual mixing theory. Laura Alexander2 ( talk) 04:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)Laura Alexander, March 6, 2010
I agree with some of the statements made above. The section on HIV and prostitution has extreme bias and is misleading. It addresses only prostitution in under-developed countries and does not discuss developed countries. Prostitution can be a vector for disease transmission, there's no doubt about it (as we see in Africa). However, injection drug use and concurrent relationships are the major method of transmission of HIV to sex-workers in many developed countries. Condom use by sex-workers is extremely high in the developed world and greatly reduces the risk of HIV transmission.... although I would not recommend enjoying the company of prostitutes.... I can direct towards some papers/references when I have more time. NN January 12, 2011
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My name is Laura Agustín PhD, my book on prostitution is Sex at the Margins, Zed Books 2007, my website is Border Thinking www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin . I have published extensively on prostitution and trafficking, am considered an international authority and have no intention of bashing any page on these subjects. There are links and ideas that I believe would enhance some pages; I was just going to start by adding a link to my work on the cultural study of commercial sex, or just my website. Time passes, there's more knowledge, etc. There's a wikip entry for me that isn't up to date but that's not so important. I don't want to do the work to add things if you are opposed.
Manyatlantics (
talk)
14:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Set Sail For The Seven Seas 223° 6' 15" NET 14:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I am Wikina, a researcher about the sex industry. I would be willing to add a few of Agustin's references to the prostitution entry if you agree. She is a light in the darkness for a lot of young researchers. My email is details removed
I'm referring to the picture on the top of the page, with the caption "A modern day street prostitute in Tijuana, Mexico". Do we have ANY evidence that she's actually a prostitute and not just, like, a girl an editor doesn't like? Josh ( talk) 20:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I am currently doing a college project about the ethics of prostitution. In short, My lecturer is adamant that the main reason for which some people want prostitution a crime is that members of the older generation were brought up very differently and wouldnt take things like safety, taxes, fueling crime, endangering prostitutes and making people criminals into consideration as they prefere to be formal/traditional. (how could one cite this? I currently cannot edit this page)
And that younger generations commonly dissaprove of prostitution, but do however see very little benefit in making it illegal. Which probably makes sense in terms of taxes, public order and safety and harm reduction. But of course the main benefit would lie in not having to put people in prison or paying to have them prosecuted etc. so that police time and effort can be spent more appropriately.
PS; any other tips/info on anything ive missed would be usefull. —Preceding unsignedcomment added by 82.30.229.218 ( talk) 01:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Is anyone interested in reworking the intro copy? It's not very accurate the way it is written now. Prostitution is the act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire. There are other people who engage in sex acts for hire who are not prostitutes, porn models for example. As an extreme example, doctors perform various "sex acts" including sexual penetration and get paid for it, and their acts are not considered prostitution.
I suggest: A prostitute is a sex worker who works in the sex industry and provides sexual services for hire. Prostitution is known as the world's oldest profession, dating back to as long as people can remember. In most modern cultures, prostitution is either discouraged or illegal. However, the global sex industry generates over $100 billion in annual revenue.
The next section can be etymology, addressing how the word came about and its metaphor.
I recommend moving human traficking to its own section.
Feel to write your own version. USchick ( talk) 02:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
I changed the most recent changes back to the previous intro for the following reason.What does everyone else think. Fisrt, I changed sexual intercourse to sexual services because I think intercourse is too limiting. If intercourse does not occur, does it mean prostitution did not occur? Second, the very aspect of prostitution involves money, and I think the source I put in is not "weak" as the previous edit said. I think any discussion involving prostitution should include the aspect of money and possible estimates, and the link shows an accumulation of various prostitution industries around the world Hawaiianfighter ( talk)
Isn't the statement "In most modern cultures, prostitution is either discouraged or illegal" backwards? Most of the countries where prostitution is legal and regulated are western countries. I'd remove that but the page is protected. 169.233.38.156 ( talk) 05:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
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In the paragraph titled "Other meanings" the quote, "Now he's out in Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention them to me." is followed by "D.B. is of course not literally a prostitute; Holden feels that his job writing B-movie screenplays is morally debasing."
The "of course" in this paragraph is an opinion and should not be included in a encyclopedia. Sry for being picky lol.
Shanyman ( talk) 13:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
"See also:
There is a short paragraph directly under the heading of "Relation to Crime" that states.
"One of the most serious problems associated with prostitution is the fact that the sex trade is surrounded by illegal, abusive and dangerous activities.[citation needed] One view insists that such situations occur because prostitution is kept illegal and the industry operates on the black market.[citation needed] "
I'm not so sure if these two sentences should even be in there. Especially since you may notice, there are NO citations for either of these ascertaitions (sp). Actually, the main issue I have is with the first sentence and the phrasing of, "....is the fact that the sex trade.... " If these things are facts, where is the research(or citation) that shows such things. At least change it to "it is believed" or something similar. But, stating something as a fact(especially in a hotly debated article such as this one), and then not at least provide a citation, isn't right imo.
The second sentence isnt as bad. But saying, "One view insists...", and then not having a citation to at least let us know who's view it is that "insists" these things, doesn't really make any sense either.
I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.179.248.24 ( talk) 21:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
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Surely this paragraph is irrelevent here:
It definitely doesn't belong in the Legal and socio-economic status section, and it isn't important enough to be in the rest of the article either. -- 118.208.114.96 ( talk) 09:06, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
whats the matter? no links to capitalism for prostitution? is this website too liberal to challenge capitalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4535t43g ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
I think the lead sentence that TJ and others are arguing about is sensationalist commentary since there is no reason to emphasize the size of the slave trade in history, it being true that the whole human population is far larger than in past periods and so that the comparison is highly misleading, and since for the same reason its absolute rate of growth is equally doubtful as important.
BUT I do not support replacing this sentence immediately because it simply reflects its section, the whole of which is a complete mess. What is really needed is for the section to be cleaned up and THEN the unneeded sentence can be replaced with another. It should not simply be removed. — K. the Surveyor (talk) 00:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
Prophet Mohammed had banned temporary marriage, some of what written in this article is based on no fact. The temporary marriage as explained in the article is unaccepted in Islam. Bombastic4ever ( talk) 14:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that is true. What is written in the first line in the article at section 2.5 i.e. 'Asia' is wrong. That line needs to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.70.4 ( talk) 13:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Completely agree, you can't be writing such stuff here without any proof. The reference provided is a book written by some person (anyone can write a book without knowing the facts). Also even that book doesn't contain what has been mentioned in the first line. Please remove the erroneous sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.244.76 ( talk) 19:30, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
The first line under the heading of Asia is nonsense.It is not fact,and is insulting towards the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah's peace and blessing be upon him).Concerning the temporary marriage I will quote from "Mut'ah: The sunni and shi'ah perspectives on marriage" by Dr.Ahmed Abdullah Salamah,Abdul_qasim Publishing House,1995.Pages 2-4©ABDUL-QASIM PUBLISHING HOUSE,1995 ing Fahd national Library Catalogin-Publication Data Salamah,Ahmad Abdullah Mut'ah-the sunni and shiah perspectives on marriage 32p 13.5x21 cm ISBN:9960-792-53-6 1.Muta2.Marriage (Islamic Law) I.Title 254.16 dc Legal Deposit no.1030/16 ISBN:9960-792-53-6 are quoted below;
"Sunnis acknowledge that mut'ah was a common practice during the pre-Islamic days of ignorance (jahiliyyah) in Arabia.It is stated in at-Tirmidhi's book of hadith in the chapter on marriage that when a man would go to a strange village where he had no acquaintance,he would marry a woman for as long period as he thought that he would stay so that she could take care of him and his property.This practice continued during the early days of Islam until the Qur'an revealed "...And those who abstain from sexual intercourse except with their wives or those [women] whom their right hands possess."(Surah al Mu'minun,23:5-6)
The Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam(Gibbs,H.A.R. and Kramer,J.H.,Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam,Leiden:J.R.Brill,1961.) also states that mut'ah was a common practice among Arab travelers and goes back to the fourth century A.D. "When a stranger came to a village and had no place to stay,he would marry a woman for a short time so that she would be his partner in bed and take care of his property."Caeteni also concluded that mut'ah in the pagan period was religious prostitution that took place during the occasion of hajj.(Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam,page 419)".
Thus,mut'ah was a loose sexual practice during the pre-Islamic days of ignorance in Arabia.Being an old and established institution ,it continued during the early days of Islam.The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) also allowed it temporarily on two other occasions,but only under strict,exceptional conditions-during the conquest of Khaybar and during the conquest of Makkah-fearing that those Muslims whose faith was not yet strong might commit adultery during Jihad.Shi'ahs widely quote hadiths in relation to these events to support their continued belief in mut'ah.Sunnis accept these hadiths but add that they happened before all of the revelations of the Qur'an were revealed and the religion completed.
Historians and commentators on the Qur'an and hadith agree that Islam eradicated most social evils in a gradual way.It is well known that practices like gambling,drinking,and the eating of pork and blood were common during the early days but were gradually prohibited.Likewise it seems probable that mut'ah was first forbidden to those at Khaybar in the year 7 A.H and was then completely prohibited to all upon the conquest of Makkah in 8 A.H
several traditions of the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) regarding mut'ah are well documented in books of hadith,such as the following: 'Ali reported:"On the day of the conquest o Khaybar the Prophet(may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade mut'ah and [eating] the flesh of a donkey."(narrated in Muslim) 'Sabrah bin Ma'bad al-Jihani reported: "I went forth with the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) for the conquest of Makkah,and he (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) allowed us mut'ah with women.But we had not even left the city [yet] when it was prohibited by the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him)."(narrated in Muslim)
According to al-Bayhaqi,Ja'far as-Sadiq,the sixth Shi'ah imam,regarded mut'ah as fornication(Fath ul-Bari,p.173).And Ali is reported by ad-Darqutni to have said that mut'ah was abrogated when the Qur'anic verses about marriage,divorce,iddah(Mandatory period of waiting before a widowed or divorced woman can remarry.),and inheritance was revealed(Muslehuddin,M.,Muta,Lahore,Pakistan:Islamic publication Ltd.,1974,page 11).Additionaally,there are four hadiths quoted in Shaeeh al-Bukhari under the title "The Prophet Finally Forbade Mut'ah."Three of these relate to the incidents of mut'ah during the early period of Islam.IOn the fourth hadith Ali said to Ibn Abbas that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade mut'ah and the meat of domesticated donkeys on the day of Khaybar.And in Saheeh Muslim a group of traditions which go back to Sabrah bin Ma'bad substantiate the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) permitted mut'ah in the year of the conquest of Makkah.Sabrah went with a companion to a woman,and each offered her a cloak in exchange for mut'ah.She chose the younger person with a shabbier cloak (i.e Sabrah) and slept with him for three nights.Thereafter,the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) forbade it forever." Textcorrectorsir ( talk) 08:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)textcorrectorsir [1]
On the map, prostituion is marked as legal and regulated in Denmark. This is not the case. It is legal to sell and buy sex, but it is not regulated as such. Totally different from the forms of prostitution in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.113.66.145 ( talk) 22:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Prostitution in Denmark is NOT marked on the map as regulated, Denmark is shown in blue, the color of regulated prostitution is green. 123username ( talk) 22:53, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
While I fully support this subject, why are there none for female sex workers? There should be tons of interesting and suitable stuff to write about this. Just that it hasn't been started? ( 46.239.122.40 ( talk) 17:26, 26 May 2011 (UTC))
Paying For It is a autobiographical book published in 2011 that is all about a person's experience being a "John" in Canada. As it is written intellectually with a lot of arguments in favor of legalizing it, it should be considered addding it to this article as a reference. Would others agree? Or does this rather not belong here? Tempel ( talk) 16:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
I wanted to draw attention to several articles that have been broken out of this one and have had subsequent additions that raise serious WP:NPOV problems. These articles are essentially POV forks. The articles in question are Feminist views on prostitution, Prostitution (criminology), and Legality of prostitution (specifically, the " Debate_over_legalization" section). These forks are quite blatantly one-sided, presenting an anti-prostitution/"prostitution abolitionist" position as basically the sole political and academic view on the subject. These articles are now severely unbalanced and in violation of WP:NPOV.
The thing is, some of these subjects are large enough topics to break out into their own articles. However, it seems that in practice, the purpose of breaking these sections out into independent articles was to create editorializing articles away from watchful eyes in the original article.
I am requesting more eyes on these articles and help in reintegrating these related articles (note: I don't mean merging them back) back into simple content breakouts rather than overlapping or POV forks. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 19:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh yes, there is an academic consensus, and by the way, Barbara Sullivan, who wrote this, is not on the "anti-prostitution side". ` 123username ( talk) 22:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, since I think its pretty obvious that we're just going to go around and around in this dispute, I'm creating a request for discussion in a new section. Some third-party intervention would be very helpful here. Iamcuriousblue ( talk) 22:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Reply: I know my response is a bit belated, but since other people might be reading this I figured I would put my 2 cents in :-) I agree with Iamcuriousblue here. Stating that there is an academic consensus on the issue of prostitution is totally false & saying "oh yes there is" is not a strong argument to convince anyone that that is true. Anyone who takes the time to do even a little research will find that this is the case; there are many differing opinions among academics, feminists and even prostitutes themselves - there is not even a general consensus, let alone a complete consensus. I will keep my personal opinions to myself here because I don't believe this is an appropriate forum to soap-box about one's opinions on the "morality" of prostitution or what should be done regarding changing laws etc. As to the original subject, I agree that "POV" articles - one-sided biased viewpoints - do not belong on Wikipedia. MsBatfish ( talk) 04:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I've heard a lot about pimps or johns being dangerously violent towards these girls, but have there been any cases where prostitutes were violent against one another? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.4.128.166 ( talk) 23:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Reply: I am not sure what this has to do with the article? Are you just asking out of curiosity or are you implying that you think this is something that should be covered in the article on prostitution? MsBatfish ( talk) 04:39, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest deleting the section on consent for the following reasons:
1 It is heavily biased. The two authors cited are well known anti prostitution activists, MacKinnon presented as so (lawyer and activist), but not Farley (psychologist and researcher). No other POV are presented.
2 The use of wording like “vast majority” (MacKinnon) and “she estimates that only 5%” (Farly) suggests that they rely on empirical evidence. They do not, or at least none of the reference links provided come close to help finding such empirical evidence. It is said that “Psychologist and researcher Melissa Farley offers a great deal of research suggesting that very few prostitutes (she estimates that only 5% of women) make the choice freely”. If there is such of great deal of research, a few of them should be cited. Farley’s Internet site on prostitution sometimes says that some of their numbers are “educated guesses”. These guesses, I suggest, are often heavily biased by the ideological POV of their authors and are not materiel for an encyclopedia.
3 Consent is a complex term that may be defined differently by the tribunals, by the psychologists and labour management organisations. The lack of definition seems to permit the citation of a the New York Times columnist Bob Herbert saying “Surveys consistently show that a majority of prostitutes would like to leave the industry.” That is by no mean a proof that there is a lack of consent. A prostitute may want to leave because of the social pressure, job conditions, money matters, a better project, etc.
4 Prostitution being largely an under world, even in countries where it is legal, it is virtually impossible to get representative samples. Serious attempts to build good and large samples such as those made before and after the Prostitution Reform Act in New Zealand are indeed very rare. When reading the section about avoidance and exiting the sex industry, we find quite different conclusions than the “educated guesses” of Farley and MacKinnon ( http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/plrc-report/5-avoiding-or-exiting-the-sex-industry#521). When analysing all the “push and pull” factors explaining entering/remaining/exiting prostitution, it is hard to reduce the notion of consent to a yes or no answer.
5 Some authors conclude easily that there is rarely a true consent based of the presumption that entry in prostitution is at an early age, using average ages as low as 12 to 14 years old. Professor and activist Richard Poulain, for instance, says that the average age of entry in prostitution in Canada is 14 years old, a number inferred either from outside Canada or from small samples of street prostitutes. The New Zealand sample (N=771), a country comparable to Canada in many respects, shows different figures: the vast majority (81%) of prostitutes entered the industry when they were 18 or over. ( http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/impact-health-safety/4.-socio-demographic-characteristics-of-the-survey-and-qualitative-samples#table41) see section 4.2.3
My first contribution on wiki, sorry if any rule infringement.
Gustave55555 ( talk) 01:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Reply: I second this motion. This section needs re-working. I think the idea that there can be no consent in prostitution is not only untrue, it is totally biased and inherently offensive towards women. If the viewpoints of anti-prostitution activists are going to be included they should at the very least be properly attributed as such and countered with quotes and studies which offer other viewpoints. MsBatfish ( talk) 05:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
What do people think about the See alsos? Currently they are:
That's a pretty random collection of topics related and tangentially related to prostitution. I'm not sure what a good standard is, and I think inevitably there'll be some POV pushing on what to include or not. Any thoughts? TJ Black ( talk) 05:13, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Reply: Some of them don't even seem to be related to prostitution at all!?! And there are articles that are far more significantly related to prostitution than any of these which are not linked in the "See Also". Personally I think the following should be removed, as most of them or not related to the topic at all, or if there is any link it is only a very fine thread ("tangentially related" as TJBlack said): - Köçek - Turkish bath - Bacchá - Hijra (South Asia) - Nikah mut‘ah - Top (BDSM)
In addition I don't see the need for including Recreation and Amusement Association when the main article on Comfort women is already included on the list.
Does anyone object to any of these article links being removed from "See Also"?? Ideas on which articles should be added? Thanks :-) MsBatfish ( talk) 07:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)