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I've never heard the term "proving" used for this process. A Google search on the terms "proofing bread" and "proving bread" gives a 20:1 preference to "proofing." All of the baking books I have on the process refer to it as "proofing." I will try to update the article further in the near future.-- Nleamy 14:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel that the because the title of the article uses the word "proofing", that for self-consistency, that is the term that should be used throughout the article. I would also entertain moving the article name to "Proving" but I see no need to move the whole article due to a small dialect difference. GoldMiner24 Talk 23:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
unleavened breads I have rewritten a bunch of the article, but I'm not sure it stands on its own. It should probably be merged into Yeast (baking). As a compromise, I've added a little bit about the Proofing Oven. I attached a Subway restaurant picture, and an external link to a specific proofer. I'd LIKE to use the picture from the external link, but until I can get permission or go take my own picture, the Subway one might have to suffice. -- Mdwyer 22:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I just read the article, and was stopped cold when Autolyse was applied to fermentation-stage dough and is considered part of proofing. Autolyse is a term (strictly applied) when flour and water are combined early in the dough making process, but before other ingredients are added for fermentation steps, meaning that it's a flour hydration step involved in the initial development of the glutenin and gliadin matrix. I believe Raymond Calvel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Calvel wrote and-or formalized the original documentation of the method, but I haven't yet had a chance to read his book. However, other published bakers seem to say the same thing. I'd make the changes to the article itself to correct this, but I also know that a number of writer-bakers on the Internet use the term (in the strictest sense, incorrectly) interchangeably with "rest" and-or "relaxation", so maybe the term's actual usage is changing and-or there's a lot of confusion regarding what Autolyse is when applied to bread making. 71.154.207.153 ( talk) 04:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I would nominate the Autolyse paragraph to be listed as the first paragraph in the section Dough Processes. This is because it occurs before the addition of the yeast. Gisslen, on page 136 of Professional Baking, 5th edition, says that the pH of the dough begins to decrease as soon as yeast or other culture inoculates the dough, and one of the benefits of an autolyse is that some of the enzymatic processes are favored at the higher range of typical pH values. So, if an autolyse is decided upon for the dough formula's process, then it comes sequentially before the addition of yeast. Thus, it makes more logistical sense for autolyse to be listed first under "Dough Processes". If nobody objects, I'll go ahead and make the change in a day or so. 75.5.100.250 ( talk) 19:46, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I have noted in the Autolyse section that the main purpose, as stated by Calvel, is to shorten kneading time and reduce bleaching/oxidation of dough. My interpretation of his text is that the primary emphasis is on improving the taste of bread, rather than the pliability and structure, though those also benefit from an autolyse. I've made the change to the section, omitting the secondary effects on structure since autolyse is not the primary emphasis of the article. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 17:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
The article states: "The retarding stage is rarely found in recipes with commercial yeast but often used in sourdough bread recipes to allow the bread to develop its characteristic flavor." While it is true that sourdough is often retarded to develop its characteristic acidity, there are many bakers and recipes that advocate a retarding step for commercial yeast breads, particularly those intending to develop "artisan" character and flavor. The longer fermentation time allows for greater development of flavor through a number of chemical processes. Often the retarding stage is only done with a part of the final dough (a preferment of some sort), but there are many cases where retarding the final dough is also crucial (such as in classic bagel production or in certain kinds of "rustic" style breads). Peter Reinhart (in his "Bread Baker's Apprentice"), Ruth Levy Beranbaum ("The Bread Bible"), and Jeffrey Hamelman ("Bread"), to name just a few of the most important books on bread techniques in the past decade, using retarding steps for a number of their recipes. Reinhart goes so far as to make a slow, cold fermentation into the main point of his book. Retarding may not be commonly practiced in general cookbooks for standard white bread recipes, but it is an essential method used by many professional bakers (whether they use natural or commercial yeast) and is common in "artisan" baking books. I am therefore altering this sentence to reflect this fact. Also, I second the info in the comment above on Autolyse. 65.96.161.79 ( talk) 17:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
A sentence currently reads, "Some straight-dough breads will only require a single fermentation-rest period while others, particularly sponge doughs, will need multiple periods." I'm changing that sentence to agree with Oregon State University's Bread Preparation Processes page. I wanted to refer here to the link that was used for the basis of the sentence change. It's a minor one or two word correction. Please be advised I'm not a wikipedian with an account, and am unfamiliar with citation guidelines for such external links without a DOI or other citation indexing number. I will try to cite it, but if the citation fails, feel free to correct the citation to wikipedia's current standards. 71.154.206.124 ( talk) 22:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Since this topic is titled Proofing (baking technique), I'm wondering about the relevance of the photo showing beer wort in its primary fermentation? The brewing process does appear to use the term proofing (referring to testing the viability of the yeast), but it does not seem to fit with the baking technique qualification. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 16:12, 4 August 2015 (UTC) It's been a week with no protest, so I'll go ahead and remove the beer fermentation photo. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 19:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Foam (culinary) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I've never heard the term "proving" used for this process. A Google search on the terms "proofing bread" and "proving bread" gives a 20:1 preference to "proofing." All of the baking books I have on the process refer to it as "proofing." I will try to update the article further in the near future.-- Nleamy 14:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel that the because the title of the article uses the word "proofing", that for self-consistency, that is the term that should be used throughout the article. I would also entertain moving the article name to "Proving" but I see no need to move the whole article due to a small dialect difference. GoldMiner24 Talk 23:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
unleavened breads I have rewritten a bunch of the article, but I'm not sure it stands on its own. It should probably be merged into Yeast (baking). As a compromise, I've added a little bit about the Proofing Oven. I attached a Subway restaurant picture, and an external link to a specific proofer. I'd LIKE to use the picture from the external link, but until I can get permission or go take my own picture, the Subway one might have to suffice. -- Mdwyer 22:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I just read the article, and was stopped cold when Autolyse was applied to fermentation-stage dough and is considered part of proofing. Autolyse is a term (strictly applied) when flour and water are combined early in the dough making process, but before other ingredients are added for fermentation steps, meaning that it's a flour hydration step involved in the initial development of the glutenin and gliadin matrix. I believe Raymond Calvel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Calvel wrote and-or formalized the original documentation of the method, but I haven't yet had a chance to read his book. However, other published bakers seem to say the same thing. I'd make the changes to the article itself to correct this, but I also know that a number of writer-bakers on the Internet use the term (in the strictest sense, incorrectly) interchangeably with "rest" and-or "relaxation", so maybe the term's actual usage is changing and-or there's a lot of confusion regarding what Autolyse is when applied to bread making. 71.154.207.153 ( talk) 04:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I would nominate the Autolyse paragraph to be listed as the first paragraph in the section Dough Processes. This is because it occurs before the addition of the yeast. Gisslen, on page 136 of Professional Baking, 5th edition, says that the pH of the dough begins to decrease as soon as yeast or other culture inoculates the dough, and one of the benefits of an autolyse is that some of the enzymatic processes are favored at the higher range of typical pH values. So, if an autolyse is decided upon for the dough formula's process, then it comes sequentially before the addition of yeast. Thus, it makes more logistical sense for autolyse to be listed first under "Dough Processes". If nobody objects, I'll go ahead and make the change in a day or so. 75.5.100.250 ( talk) 19:46, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I have noted in the Autolyse section that the main purpose, as stated by Calvel, is to shorten kneading time and reduce bleaching/oxidation of dough. My interpretation of his text is that the primary emphasis is on improving the taste of bread, rather than the pliability and structure, though those also benefit from an autolyse. I've made the change to the section, omitting the secondary effects on structure since autolyse is not the primary emphasis of the article. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 17:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
The article states: "The retarding stage is rarely found in recipes with commercial yeast but often used in sourdough bread recipes to allow the bread to develop its characteristic flavor." While it is true that sourdough is often retarded to develop its characteristic acidity, there are many bakers and recipes that advocate a retarding step for commercial yeast breads, particularly those intending to develop "artisan" character and flavor. The longer fermentation time allows for greater development of flavor through a number of chemical processes. Often the retarding stage is only done with a part of the final dough (a preferment of some sort), but there are many cases where retarding the final dough is also crucial (such as in classic bagel production or in certain kinds of "rustic" style breads). Peter Reinhart (in his "Bread Baker's Apprentice"), Ruth Levy Beranbaum ("The Bread Bible"), and Jeffrey Hamelman ("Bread"), to name just a few of the most important books on bread techniques in the past decade, using retarding steps for a number of their recipes. Reinhart goes so far as to make a slow, cold fermentation into the main point of his book. Retarding may not be commonly practiced in general cookbooks for standard white bread recipes, but it is an essential method used by many professional bakers (whether they use natural or commercial yeast) and is common in "artisan" baking books. I am therefore altering this sentence to reflect this fact. Also, I second the info in the comment above on Autolyse. 65.96.161.79 ( talk) 17:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
A sentence currently reads, "Some straight-dough breads will only require a single fermentation-rest period while others, particularly sponge doughs, will need multiple periods." I'm changing that sentence to agree with Oregon State University's Bread Preparation Processes page. I wanted to refer here to the link that was used for the basis of the sentence change. It's a minor one or two word correction. Please be advised I'm not a wikipedian with an account, and am unfamiliar with citation guidelines for such external links without a DOI or other citation indexing number. I will try to cite it, but if the citation fails, feel free to correct the citation to wikipedia's current standards. 71.154.206.124 ( talk) 22:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Since this topic is titled Proofing (baking technique), I'm wondering about the relevance of the photo showing beer wort in its primary fermentation? The brewing process does appear to use the term proofing (referring to testing the viability of the yeast), but it does not seem to fit with the baking technique qualification. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 16:12, 4 August 2015 (UTC) It's been a week with no protest, so I'll go ahead and remove the beer fermentation photo. Thoughtful baker ( talk) 19:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Foam (culinary) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)