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Sorry I can't remove the following [[Category:History of Greece|Pindus] from the External links. Please help. Thanks. -- Koppany 04:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
"Φιλόδοξα οράματα που ο Ματούσης θα πληρώσει με εικοσαετή κάθειρξη στις φυλακές του Τσαουσέσκου." If I understand well this means that Matoussi was sentenced for 20 years in Ceausescu's Romania? → Η άλλη Ξένη Thanks. -- Koppany 11:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
From previous Talk:Principality of Pindus:
Discussion about this "state" can be found on [1]. It seems to have longer history, quote: Italy actually created the Principality of Pindos in 1917 first after they took control of Epirus. Pavel Vozenilek 23:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Could somebody expand the article by translating it from Greek wikipedia? Luka Jačov 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Here is the original start 22 August 2006 and the already removed and not archived Talk Talk:Principality of Pindus Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Hugh Poulton and Mark Mazower speak just about Principality of Pindus
Does Wikipedia support neologisms and invented SECONDARY Titles? Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Koppany also removed the already Category:Principality of Pindus with newly (by him) created Category:Voivodship of Macedonia!!...
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
However in the irrelevant Ohrana external link there is no mention of ANY Voivodhip or Principality of Pindus!.. Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
QUOTE
In Sept. 1941 the commander of the Pinerolo Division, Gen. Cesare Benelli, proposed the creation of Aromanian militias in Grevenà, Kastoria, Kalabaka, Trikkala, Karditsa; moreover he proposed to support the Aromanians and give to them the gendarmery and some administrative places, along with a few Bulgarians from Macedonia. This plan wasn't approved by the commander of the III Army Corps, and meanwhile also Gen. Benelli had become less enthusiast of the Aromanian collaboration, given that they weren't compactly pro-Italian, many were mere oportuninsts, and had great political differences also between themselves.
QUOTE
Julius Csesznegi: his correct Hungarian name was Baron Julius Milványi-Csesznegi (Báró Milványi Csesznegi Gyula). He was really an adventurer and also a not too known poet and writer.
Julius was proclaimed prince regent of Pindus and abdicated in 1944. He never had any power or even set foot on the territory of the state.
Julius' mother, Maria Handzár was from Vlach origin.
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
All we know about Aromanians and Principality of Pindus is well documented On the contrary the Slavic(and Bulgarian) Macedonian issue belongs to Uhrana NOT here Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
You can give whatever informations are needed about Albanians and other Groups inside the article
but these groups have no right to hijack the original title which is PRINCIPALITY OF PINDUS Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Why the external link of Uhrana speaks of NO relation to Principality of Pindus?? Italians supported also the Albanians. Should Albania take place in the title of Pindus? and how you define Maceedonia Geographicaly,Slavic,Bulgarian what? Why not Moglena also?? Moglena title was of the same value, as Voivodship of Macedonia ...JUST TITLES at the last years!! The reference of Macedonia in the title is disputed It belongs inside the article,in a subcategory Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE
In 1942 a faction of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (VMRO) offered the throne of Macedonia to Alchiviad
Where is the source.. Names?? The Bulgarophile VMORO offered Macedonia to Aromanian control???
Why Ivan Mihailov is linked to Principality of Pindus,since he set no foot in the region and refused to participate in an autonomous Axis-Macedonia,(although he supported Ante Pavelic in Croatia)??
According to a source from the old pre-communist Bulgarian National Security Service, this change was due to the decisive intervention of the VMRO-agent Ivan Mihailov through Ante Pavelić in Rome in early 1943.[1] Go and see the PDF
BUT THE LINK SAYS NOTHING ABOUT VOIVODSHIP OR PINDUS!!! Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Cseszneky was a Hungarian-Croatian baron[5] http://ferenczygen.tripod.com/id6.html
The link lists generally Hungarian Barons and gives no information about this mysterious Voivode.. Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and the farce of link-sources goes on!... [2] [3]
who only nominally reigned as Voivode Julius[6] between August-September in 1943, but never actually assumed power, although some local autonomist Slavic Macedonian Uhrana leaders governed in his name
Balkanfreezer (
talk) 20:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and the Despotate of Epirus EXISTED (not only as a title) but this so called Voivodship of Macedonia is disputed Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Why the links about Uhrana and Italo-Bulgarski Komitet - Svoboda. ili Smrt
speak of NO relation to Pindus and Alchibiadi??
[4]
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
There are Makedonskis participating in Bulgarophile Uhrana
and later Makedonski Tito-Communists SNOF
What are the sources about Makedonskis directly and independently related to Italians???
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The armed men of Ohrana weared hats with the sign "IBK-SIS-Cheta ofTirana" -(Italo-Bulgarian Committee "Liberty or Death" - Cheta of Tirana).In Kostur has been created Ohrana commandment - it has been placed inthebuilding of the former Greek police. The movement between all villagescontrolled by Ohrana could be possible only by written permission ofporuchik A. Kalchev or with a pass from the Bulgarian club in Solun.The Bulgarian government took firstly very reserved position towardsOhrana.So in a telegram of the Bulgarian Prime Minister Bogdan Filov to theBulgarian legation in Rome is written: "Because the Italian commandmentin Kostur cannot manage with the attacks of the Greek andarts, itpermittedthe local population to be armed, without informing the Bulgariangovernment. [5] -- Koppany ( talk) 20:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The Italo-Bulgarian relation is already known
from the article Another important figure in the history of the state was the Albanian Vasil Rapotika (Vasilis Rapoutikas).[2] According to V. Papagianni, he was Minister of Defence in the autonomous government since its creation
Maybe this is the only Non-Aromanian,Non-Italian who participated actively in this Principality Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:33, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
It is not only about Italo-Bulgarian relation, but these soldiers were Macedonians. Kostur (Greek Kastoria) was part of Pindus Principality and so on...-- Koppany ( talk) 20:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and so on ..the fact that they were both Italian (and some time German collaborators) does not prove a DUAL STATE as the title implies Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
1.where is the source that Kastoria/Kostur was capital of Principality?
2.The artilce Alcibiades Diamandi gives much more information about the AROMANIAN Principality than the article here Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
There and in the above axis forum Cseszneky was a Hungarian-VLACH but here he became Hungarian-Croat!!
There in the older article of Alcibiade
some AROMANIANS governed in his name
and here it was changed to .....some local autonomist Slavic Macedonian Uhrana leaders governed in his name!!!
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 07:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
and one can assume that the movement of the Hungarian prince had a MACEDO-ROMAN and NOT a Slavic Macedonian character ...Who can prove what here?... Balkanfreezer ( talk) 07:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and what is the source about the FLAG??
I can accept the title Principality of Pindus and such subcategories if you insist.-- Koppany ( talk) 20:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The flag description was found in a site of the Professor Bruno D'Ambrosio. -- Koppany ( talk) 20:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Where is this site?
btw Autonomous state of Pindus is much more constructive than Moglena,Voivodship or Macedonia etc Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Mozower speaks about autonomous mini-state [6]
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 21:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Where is the talk for the moves here? [7] [8]
and the sources..don't you see that it lacks neutral sources ...ENGLISH or (AXIS DOCUMENTS:ITALIAN and GERMAN)sources Not Greek,Bulgarian,Hungarian etc balkan
I thought unsourced statements can be easily deleted Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
IMRO, Ohrana and Ivan Mihailov. Too many links but nothing relevant. Where is also the reference that Julius I had this specific title? Balkanfreezer ( talk) 11:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
This article was copy-and-paste moved and redirected several times on 26 December 2007 and 31 January 2008 by User:Balkanfreezer, from the present Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia back to its older title Principality of Pindus. I have fixed this by history-merging all content edits made while the material was at Principality of Pindus back into the history here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, then, let's do it properly:
Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia -> Principality of Pindus
It's been proposed that this page be moved back to Principality of Pindus. Please make a note here if there are any remaining objections to this. I'll carry out the move in a few days if this is consensus. It needs admin tools to do it properly. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Please note that there is a significant confusion, both in the Wikipedia text on the Principality of the Pindus, as well as in bibliography:
I believe that the distinction has to be made in the article here, where especially the infobox is quite misleading:
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 10:21, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Before I rewrite it so that it reflects the events in 1917, I will remove (I have started already) several pieces which are either fictional, or speculative or just irrelevant with the situation in 1942-3. Then, whatever is left, I will use in the article Vlach "Roman Legion". -- FocalPoint ( talk) 21:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Now the article, even though it describes the situation during 1942-43, has several issues corrected. I will now move whatever is needed to Vlach "Roman Legion" and transform the present article, so that it presents the events of 1917, as well as partly the 1942-43 events, since the name "Principality of the Pindus" is used in both cases. -- FocalPoint ( talk) 08:44, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
The article now is balanced and all information is supported by reliable sources. I can only hope that in the future, information from here will be copied to the other language wikipedias:
Main points to know:
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 09:43, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi StevenJ81, being an admin in el-wikipedia, I fully understand what you are talking about.
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 09:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
For my reference: lad:Prinsipado del Pindo - no automatic translation, so I left a short article in English to be translated if possible in the discussion: lad:Diskusyón:Prinsipado del Pindo. This short article could also be used in other wikipedias and it also has references to the best secondary sources I could find (plus one in english, with a very short description). -- FocalPoint ( talk) 17:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Dear StevenJ81, I admit I have a HHHHHUUUUGE bias against unsourced information, which has been spread among wikipedias, creating an imaginary territory, creating imaginary princes and even more imaginary regents, creating even non-existent royal houses. I have a bias, when a non-existent entity is being listed among Axis-led puppet states in all wikipedias. I am lucky to have found secondary sources, which clear out the misinformation spread in Wikipedias. Furthermore, I am quite sure that all this crazy situation did not have any motive whatsoever (who would want to promote issues which would drop with the first attempt to some research? I cannot think of any motive really). I am sure that it only happened because no one came in with reputable secondary sources to set the record staight. It will take a while to clear, but I am glad this has been discovered, with the help of a user of el-wikipedia who insisted: "The en-wikipedia cannot be wrong". Well, this was a very innocent thought, but he was right in a way: It is important that the en-wikipedia has correct, sourced information. So, I really want to thank you, StevenJ81, for your assistance and Constantine for his kind words. -- FocalPoint ( talk) 08:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Following the identification of serious mistakes in the Principality of Pindus articles in all wikis, I hereby leave
Correct the affected articles:
Most important also:
Wikipedia | Principality of the Pindus | Alcibiades Diamandi | Nicolaos Matussis | Gyula Cseszneky | "what links here" articles |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Armãneashti | To correct (easy, very small) | - | - | - | To correct, easy, few |
Български | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok |
Bosanski | Removed gross inaccuracies, added "disputed" template, left note in discussion | - | - | ok | To correct, easy, few |
Català | Ok | - | - | ok | To check 2-3 only |
Čeština | To correct | - | - | - | To check |
Dansk | - | - | - | ok | To check |
Deutsch | Left a note in discussion and removed some mistakes | To correct | - | ok | To check |
Ελληνικά | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok |
Español | To correct (some mistakes removed) | ok | - | ok | To check |
English | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok, a few minor issues remain |
Esperanto | ok - Was a machine translation, replaced by new machine translation | - | - | ok | ok |
Français | mostly ok | - | - | ok | ok |
Galego | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Hrvatski | despite corrections still needs changes | To correct | - | To check | To check |
Bahasa Indonesia | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | To check | To check |
Italiano | ok | ok | - | ok | ok |
עברית | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Ladino | To correct, note left in discussion | - | - | - | ok |
Magyar | To check | To correct | To correct | To check | To check |
Македонски | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Bahasa Melayu | despite corrections still need changes | - | - | ok | ok |
Nederlands | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
日本語 | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Norsk bokmål | - | - | - | ok | ok |
Norsk nynorsk | - | - | - | ok | ok |
Polski | To check | To correct | To correct | To check | To check |
Português | despite corrections still needs change, left move proposal | - | - | To check | To check |
Română | despite corrections still needs change, needs move | - | - | - | To check |
Русский | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | Corrected | To check |
Simple English | ok | - | - | - | ok |
Slovenčina | ok, but still speaks about state | - | - | ok | ok |
Српски / srpski | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | ok | ok |
Basa Sunda | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Suomi | Left Template:Disputed | - | - | - | ok |
Svenska | To check | - | - | - | To check |
Українська | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | - | To check |
Tiếng Việt | Ok, machine translation from simple english | - | - | - | To check |
中文 | To check | - | - | - | To check |
Standard message to leave in Edit summary:
removed incorrect information, please see [[:en:Talk:Principality of the Pindus#Article information]]
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 18:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
I would like to thank the people who have been involved in the corrections up to now: User:StevenJ81 (lad, en, simple), User:Cplakidas (en, fr), User:Мико (bg, el), User:Phso2 (fr). -- FocalPoint ( talk) 07:49, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
A small tangent but this passage: "The Aromanians were part of the projects for the dismemberment of Greece set up by the Italians. When the 11th Army occupied the areas in 1941, their commanders received orders by Palazzo Chigi (the Italian government/prime minister's premises) to survey each village recording their ethnicity and its attitude towards the occupiers, finding the Aromanians absorbed and assimilated in the Greek community with the exception of some groups who were recorded as anti-Bulgarian, anti-Greek, pro-Italian and pro-Romanian.[11]"
uses Palazzo Chigi as a metonym in a way that might be inaccurate. Palazzo Chigi was not the seat of the Prime Minister of Italy at that time or, according even to the Wiki article on the building, until 1961. Mussolini worked out of Palazzo Venezia. So, at least, the bit in parentheses is wrong. If the original source cited uses the name of Palazzo Chigi, and so describes it, it is also wrong. If the source cites Palazzo Chigi in a context meaning the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is possible, then this may be accurate. Random noter ( talk) 23:44, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The source cites Palazzo Chigi in a context meaning the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The erroneous part "(the Italian government/prime minister's premises)" was added by me. Apparently I was trying to explain what is the meaning of Palazzo Chigi but I got it wrong. Many thanks for indicating the problem - no matter how small it might seem, it is important to be accurate. I just replaced the text in parentheses with "(the seat of the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs at the time)" -- FocalPoint ( talk) 19:08, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Principality of the Pindus article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 29 October, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Sorry I can't remove the following [[Category:History of Greece|Pindus] from the External links. Please help. Thanks. -- Koppany 04:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
"Φιλόδοξα οράματα που ο Ματούσης θα πληρώσει με εικοσαετή κάθειρξη στις φυλακές του Τσαουσέσκου." If I understand well this means that Matoussi was sentenced for 20 years in Ceausescu's Romania? → Η άλλη Ξένη Thanks. -- Koppany 11:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
From previous Talk:Principality of Pindus:
Discussion about this "state" can be found on [1]. It seems to have longer history, quote: Italy actually created the Principality of Pindos in 1917 first after they took control of Epirus. Pavel Vozenilek 23:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Could somebody expand the article by translating it from Greek wikipedia? Luka Jačov 23:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Here is the original start 22 August 2006 and the already removed and not archived Talk Talk:Principality of Pindus Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Hugh Poulton and Mark Mazower speak just about Principality of Pindus
Does Wikipedia support neologisms and invented SECONDARY Titles? Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Koppany also removed the already Category:Principality of Pindus with newly (by him) created Category:Voivodship of Macedonia!!...
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
However in the irrelevant Ohrana external link there is no mention of ANY Voivodhip or Principality of Pindus!.. Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
QUOTE
In Sept. 1941 the commander of the Pinerolo Division, Gen. Cesare Benelli, proposed the creation of Aromanian militias in Grevenà, Kastoria, Kalabaka, Trikkala, Karditsa; moreover he proposed to support the Aromanians and give to them the gendarmery and some administrative places, along with a few Bulgarians from Macedonia. This plan wasn't approved by the commander of the III Army Corps, and meanwhile also Gen. Benelli had become less enthusiast of the Aromanian collaboration, given that they weren't compactly pro-Italian, many were mere oportuninsts, and had great political differences also between themselves.
QUOTE
Julius Csesznegi: his correct Hungarian name was Baron Julius Milványi-Csesznegi (Báró Milványi Csesznegi Gyula). He was really an adventurer and also a not too known poet and writer.
Julius was proclaimed prince regent of Pindus and abdicated in 1944. He never had any power or even set foot on the territory of the state.
Julius' mother, Maria Handzár was from Vlach origin.
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 18:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
All we know about Aromanians and Principality of Pindus is well documented On the contrary the Slavic(and Bulgarian) Macedonian issue belongs to Uhrana NOT here Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
You can give whatever informations are needed about Albanians and other Groups inside the article
but these groups have no right to hijack the original title which is PRINCIPALITY OF PINDUS Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Why the external link of Uhrana speaks of NO relation to Principality of Pindus?? Italians supported also the Albanians. Should Albania take place in the title of Pindus? and how you define Maceedonia Geographicaly,Slavic,Bulgarian what? Why not Moglena also?? Moglena title was of the same value, as Voivodship of Macedonia ...JUST TITLES at the last years!! The reference of Macedonia in the title is disputed It belongs inside the article,in a subcategory Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE
In 1942 a faction of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (VMRO) offered the throne of Macedonia to Alchiviad
Where is the source.. Names?? The Bulgarophile VMORO offered Macedonia to Aromanian control???
Why Ivan Mihailov is linked to Principality of Pindus,since he set no foot in the region and refused to participate in an autonomous Axis-Macedonia,(although he supported Ante Pavelic in Croatia)??
According to a source from the old pre-communist Bulgarian National Security Service, this change was due to the decisive intervention of the VMRO-agent Ivan Mihailov through Ante Pavelić in Rome in early 1943.[1] Go and see the PDF
BUT THE LINK SAYS NOTHING ABOUT VOIVODSHIP OR PINDUS!!! Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Cseszneky was a Hungarian-Croatian baron[5] http://ferenczygen.tripod.com/id6.html
The link lists generally Hungarian Barons and gives no information about this mysterious Voivode.. Balkanfreezer ( talk) 19:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and the farce of link-sources goes on!... [2] [3]
who only nominally reigned as Voivode Julius[6] between August-September in 1943, but never actually assumed power, although some local autonomist Slavic Macedonian Uhrana leaders governed in his name
Balkanfreezer (
talk) 20:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and the Despotate of Epirus EXISTED (not only as a title) but this so called Voivodship of Macedonia is disputed Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Why the links about Uhrana and Italo-Bulgarski Komitet - Svoboda. ili Smrt
speak of NO relation to Pindus and Alchibiadi??
[4]
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
There are Makedonskis participating in Bulgarophile Uhrana
and later Makedonski Tito-Communists SNOF
What are the sources about Makedonskis directly and independently related to Italians???
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The armed men of Ohrana weared hats with the sign "IBK-SIS-Cheta ofTirana" -(Italo-Bulgarian Committee "Liberty or Death" - Cheta of Tirana).In Kostur has been created Ohrana commandment - it has been placed inthebuilding of the former Greek police. The movement between all villagescontrolled by Ohrana could be possible only by written permission ofporuchik A. Kalchev or with a pass from the Bulgarian club in Solun.The Bulgarian government took firstly very reserved position towardsOhrana.So in a telegram of the Bulgarian Prime Minister Bogdan Filov to theBulgarian legation in Rome is written: "Because the Italian commandmentin Kostur cannot manage with the attacks of the Greek andarts, itpermittedthe local population to be armed, without informing the Bulgariangovernment. [5] -- Koppany ( talk) 20:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The Italo-Bulgarian relation is already known
from the article Another important figure in the history of the state was the Albanian Vasil Rapotika (Vasilis Rapoutikas).[2] According to V. Papagianni, he was Minister of Defence in the autonomous government since its creation
Maybe this is the only Non-Aromanian,Non-Italian who participated actively in this Principality Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:33, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
It is not only about Italo-Bulgarian relation, but these soldiers were Macedonians. Kostur (Greek Kastoria) was part of Pindus Principality and so on...-- Koppany ( talk) 20:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and so on ..the fact that they were both Italian (and some time German collaborators) does not prove a DUAL STATE as the title implies Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:04, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
1.where is the source that Kastoria/Kostur was capital of Principality?
2.The artilce Alcibiades Diamandi gives much more information about the AROMANIAN Principality than the article here Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
There and in the above axis forum Cseszneky was a Hungarian-VLACH but here he became Hungarian-Croat!!
There in the older article of Alcibiade
some AROMANIANS governed in his name
and here it was changed to .....some local autonomist Slavic Macedonian Uhrana leaders governed in his name!!!
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 07:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
and one can assume that the movement of the Hungarian prince had a MACEDO-ROMAN and NOT a Slavic Macedonian character ...Who can prove what here?... Balkanfreezer ( talk) 07:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
and what is the source about the FLAG??
I can accept the title Principality of Pindus and such subcategories if you insist.-- Koppany ( talk) 20:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The flag description was found in a site of the Professor Bruno D'Ambrosio. -- Koppany ( talk) 20:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Where is this site?
btw Autonomous state of Pindus is much more constructive than Moglena,Voivodship or Macedonia etc Balkanfreezer ( talk) 20:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Mozower speaks about autonomous mini-state [6]
Balkanfreezer ( talk) 21:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Where is the talk for the moves here? [7] [8]
and the sources..don't you see that it lacks neutral sources ...ENGLISH or (AXIS DOCUMENTS:ITALIAN and GERMAN)sources Not Greek,Bulgarian,Hungarian etc balkan
I thought unsourced statements can be easily deleted Balkanfreezer ( talk) 06:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
IMRO, Ohrana and Ivan Mihailov. Too many links but nothing relevant. Where is also the reference that Julius I had this specific title? Balkanfreezer ( talk) 11:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
This article was copy-and-paste moved and redirected several times on 26 December 2007 and 31 January 2008 by User:Balkanfreezer, from the present Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia back to its older title Principality of Pindus. I have fixed this by history-merging all content edits made while the material was at Principality of Pindus back into the history here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, then, let's do it properly:
Principality of Pindus and Voivodship of Macedonia -> Principality of Pindus
It's been proposed that this page be moved back to Principality of Pindus. Please make a note here if there are any remaining objections to this. I'll carry out the move in a few days if this is consensus. It needs admin tools to do it properly. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Please note that there is a significant confusion, both in the Wikipedia text on the Principality of the Pindus, as well as in bibliography:
I believe that the distinction has to be made in the article here, where especially the infobox is quite misleading:
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 10:21, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
Before I rewrite it so that it reflects the events in 1917, I will remove (I have started already) several pieces which are either fictional, or speculative or just irrelevant with the situation in 1942-3. Then, whatever is left, I will use in the article Vlach "Roman Legion". -- FocalPoint ( talk) 21:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Now the article, even though it describes the situation during 1942-43, has several issues corrected. I will now move whatever is needed to Vlach "Roman Legion" and transform the present article, so that it presents the events of 1917, as well as partly the 1942-43 events, since the name "Principality of the Pindus" is used in both cases. -- FocalPoint ( talk) 08:44, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
The article now is balanced and all information is supported by reliable sources. I can only hope that in the future, information from here will be copied to the other language wikipedias:
Main points to know:
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 09:43, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi StevenJ81, being an admin in el-wikipedia, I fully understand what you are talking about.
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 09:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
For my reference: lad:Prinsipado del Pindo - no automatic translation, so I left a short article in English to be translated if possible in the discussion: lad:Diskusyón:Prinsipado del Pindo. This short article could also be used in other wikipedias and it also has references to the best secondary sources I could find (plus one in english, with a very short description). -- FocalPoint ( talk) 17:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Dear StevenJ81, I admit I have a HHHHHUUUUGE bias against unsourced information, which has been spread among wikipedias, creating an imaginary territory, creating imaginary princes and even more imaginary regents, creating even non-existent royal houses. I have a bias, when a non-existent entity is being listed among Axis-led puppet states in all wikipedias. I am lucky to have found secondary sources, which clear out the misinformation spread in Wikipedias. Furthermore, I am quite sure that all this crazy situation did not have any motive whatsoever (who would want to promote issues which would drop with the first attempt to some research? I cannot think of any motive really). I am sure that it only happened because no one came in with reputable secondary sources to set the record staight. It will take a while to clear, but I am glad this has been discovered, with the help of a user of el-wikipedia who insisted: "The en-wikipedia cannot be wrong". Well, this was a very innocent thought, but he was right in a way: It is important that the en-wikipedia has correct, sourced information. So, I really want to thank you, StevenJ81, for your assistance and Constantine for his kind words. -- FocalPoint ( talk) 08:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Following the identification of serious mistakes in the Principality of Pindus articles in all wikis, I hereby leave
Correct the affected articles:
Most important also:
Wikipedia | Principality of the Pindus | Alcibiades Diamandi | Nicolaos Matussis | Gyula Cseszneky | "what links here" articles |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Armãneashti | To correct (easy, very small) | - | - | - | To correct, easy, few |
Български | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok |
Bosanski | Removed gross inaccuracies, added "disputed" template, left note in discussion | - | - | ok | To correct, easy, few |
Català | Ok | - | - | ok | To check 2-3 only |
Čeština | To correct | - | - | - | To check |
Dansk | - | - | - | ok | To check |
Deutsch | Left a note in discussion and removed some mistakes | To correct | - | ok | To check |
Ελληνικά | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok |
Español | To correct (some mistakes removed) | ok | - | ok | To check |
English | ok | ok | ok | ok | ok, a few minor issues remain |
Esperanto | ok - Was a machine translation, replaced by new machine translation | - | - | ok | ok |
Français | mostly ok | - | - | ok | ok |
Galego | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Hrvatski | despite corrections still needs changes | To correct | - | To check | To check |
Bahasa Indonesia | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | To check | To check |
Italiano | ok | ok | - | ok | ok |
עברית | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Ladino | To correct, note left in discussion | - | - | - | ok |
Magyar | To check | To correct | To correct | To check | To check |
Македонски | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Bahasa Melayu | despite corrections still need changes | - | - | ok | ok |
Nederlands | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
日本語 | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Norsk bokmål | - | - | - | ok | ok |
Norsk nynorsk | - | - | - | ok | ok |
Polski | To check | To correct | To correct | To check | To check |
Português | despite corrections still needs change, left move proposal | - | - | To check | To check |
Română | despite corrections still needs change, needs move | - | - | - | To check |
Русский | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | Corrected | To check |
Simple English | ok | - | - | - | ok |
Slovenčina | ok, but still speaks about state | - | - | ok | ok |
Српски / srpski | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Srpskohrvatski / српскохрватски | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | ok | ok |
Basa Sunda | To check | - | - | To check | To check |
Suomi | Left Template:Disputed | - | - | - | ok |
Svenska | To check | - | - | - | To check |
Українська | despite corrections still needs change | - | - | - | To check |
Tiếng Việt | Ok, machine translation from simple english | - | - | - | To check |
中文 | To check | - | - | - | To check |
Standard message to leave in Edit summary:
removed incorrect information, please see [[:en:Talk:Principality of the Pindus#Article information]]
-- FocalPoint ( talk) 18:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
I would like to thank the people who have been involved in the corrections up to now: User:StevenJ81 (lad, en, simple), User:Cplakidas (en, fr), User:Мико (bg, el), User:Phso2 (fr). -- FocalPoint ( talk) 07:49, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
A small tangent but this passage: "The Aromanians were part of the projects for the dismemberment of Greece set up by the Italians. When the 11th Army occupied the areas in 1941, their commanders received orders by Palazzo Chigi (the Italian government/prime minister's premises) to survey each village recording their ethnicity and its attitude towards the occupiers, finding the Aromanians absorbed and assimilated in the Greek community with the exception of some groups who were recorded as anti-Bulgarian, anti-Greek, pro-Italian and pro-Romanian.[11]"
uses Palazzo Chigi as a metonym in a way that might be inaccurate. Palazzo Chigi was not the seat of the Prime Minister of Italy at that time or, according even to the Wiki article on the building, until 1961. Mussolini worked out of Palazzo Venezia. So, at least, the bit in parentheses is wrong. If the original source cited uses the name of Palazzo Chigi, and so describes it, it is also wrong. If the source cites Palazzo Chigi in a context meaning the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is possible, then this may be accurate. Random noter ( talk) 23:44, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The source cites Palazzo Chigi in a context meaning the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The erroneous part "(the Italian government/prime minister's premises)" was added by me. Apparently I was trying to explain what is the meaning of Palazzo Chigi but I got it wrong. Many thanks for indicating the problem - no matter how small it might seem, it is important to be accurate. I just replaced the text in parentheses with "(the seat of the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs at the time)" -- FocalPoint ( talk) 19:08, 8 August 2019 (UTC)