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Archive 1 |
I'd like to suggest that this page be merged with "Archie Mountbatten–Windsor" and renamed something like "Children of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex" or "Family of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex", this would better reflect the status of the children and their parents wish for them not to be public figures. BENEDICT W B ( talk) 17:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Definitely disagree with this merger, they’re still far from being private citizens. Copper1993 ( talk) 17:30, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
I got this from the Italian Wiki page. Mabye add some of It?
Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor British noble, member of the royal family, second child of Harry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex Tongue follow Edit Lilibet Diana Full name Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor Birth June 4, 2021 (0 years) Dynasty Windsor Dad Henry, Duke of Sussex Mother Meghan, duchessa di Sussex Royal Family of the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth Realms Badge of the House of Windsor.svg
Royal family HM the Queen HRH the Prince of Wales S.AR the Duchess of Cornwall HRH the Duke of Cambridge S.AR the Duchess of Cambridge HRH Prince George of Cambridge HRH Princess Charlotte of Cambridge HRH Prince Louis of Cambridge The Duke of Sussex The Duchess of Sussex HRH the Duke of York HRH Princess Beatrice of York HRH Princess Eugenie of York HRH the Earl of Wessex S.AR the Countess of Wessex HRH the Royal Princess HRH the Duke of Gloucester S.AR the Duchess of Gloucester HRH the Duke of Kent S.AR the Duchess of Kent HRH Prince Michael of Kent S.AR Princess Michael of Kent S.A.R. la Principessa Alexandra Lilibet "Lili" Diana Mountbatten-Windsor ( Santa Barbara , June 4, 2021 ) is a British noble , member of the royal family , second child of Henry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan Markle .
From their website On June 4, we were blessed with the arrival of our daughter, Lili.
"She is more than we could have ever imagined, and we remain grateful for the love and prayers we've felt from across the globe.
"Thank you for your continued kindness and support during this very special time for our family." My bits The message adds that anyone wishing to send gifts is asked to "support or learn more about" organisations working for women and girls.
They have not released any photos of their daughter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.245.179.51 ( talk) 19:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Also remember that with her birth Prince Andrew has moved to 9th in succession but hasn't changes anything for the Cambridge
I know last thing, include a photo of when the duke and duchess announced the pregnancy.. Also was announced on the royal family's official instagram page.
Shouldn't "Akin to the decision her parents made for her brother Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, it is unlikely that she will have a title" be changed to something like "Akin to her brother Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, it is unlikely that she will have a title" due to the fact that her parents claim that they didn't choose for Archie to be without a title. G2ac13 ( talk) 17:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
When the nickname is notable, doesn't it usually come after the middle name when written? Like I don't care enough about it to actually try and (potentially wrongly) change it, but shouldn't it be Lilibet Diana "Lili"... and not Lilibet "Lili" Diana...? I legit don't actually know so this is a serious question. 47.20.177.163 ( talk) 17:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Given she'll be commonly known as "Lili", I'm wondering if this article should be titled at "Lili Mountbatten-Windsor" instead. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 18:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mm/dd/yyyy as she was born in the US? Grangehilllover ( talk) 21:49, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
As Lilibet was born in the US, surely her DOB should follow June 4, 2021 like her mum is August 4, 1981? It'll certainly be listed that way on her birth certificate. Grangehilllover ( talk) 21:27, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
If an article has evolved using predominantly one date format, this format should be used throughout the article, unless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic or consensus on the article's talk page.The article was using DMY first. You want to change it to MDY based on her ties to the U.S., but that being a strong enough reason is in doubt given that her ties to the British monarchy are the sole reason this article exists. That leaves reaching consensus. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 04:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Dl2000: I noticed you changed the date format (after someone decided there was consensus to change it, diff) so you might want to give your thoughts on it here. I did think Surtsicna was a bit hasty in calling consensus and changing it. The date format isn't an urgent matter and there is no harm in waiting for the discussion to play out more. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 22:43, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Look folks, when all else fails it's a good idea to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines, something that some here are oblivious to or don't understand. You can argue endlessly with your personal opinions about her citizenship (which clearly is dual American and British), how important she is in the line of succession to the British throne, or where she will grow up. But the relevant guideline when there is uncertainty about British or American usage is WP:ENGVAR: "use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety". The first usage is British, here; and it stayed that way after many edits expanding the article. So unless there is consensus to make an exception, it remains British. I also disagree that this issue is a moot point if there is a merge. This person eventually will have her own article, even if there is a merge now. By the way, as an American, I am not biased toward British English. It's just a matter of following the guideline. Sundayclose ( talk) 19:04, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we expect to see Lilibet's birth certificate? I would like to use it for illustration in a future RfC on this topic, if only for decoration. Surtsicna ( talk) 12:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
"11:40 PDT (18:40 UTC)" is incorrect. 1140 PDT is 1940 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.210.130 ( talk • contribs) 12:03, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
Remember that a lot of news sources listed Archie as Master are we to list Lili as Miss or Lady? Also her birth weight is 7Lbs and 11oz she was born at Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital. Also to point out Diana is her middle name not part of her first name.
The news report by Buckingham Palace was just listed on Hello magazine regarding weight.
We do not yet know how Lili will be styled. Her parents have not made an announcement; indeed, the royal family has not yet updated their website to include her in the line of succession (as of 19 days after her birth). Her style will appear there when it is updated. Seeker095 ( talk) 03:20, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
May we please change the 'parents parameters' of this article's & Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's infoboxes, to match the majority of other bio articles? GoodDay ( talk) 17:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Right now, it makes sense to title the article "Lilibet Mountbatten-Winsdor". However, sometime in the future, this may need to be revisited. Her parents have indicated her nickname will be "Lili". It is not clear how much they intend to utilize this nickname.
In the case of Lilibet's own father, his nickname ("Harry") became his common name, as opposed to his original formal name "Henry", which was almost never used to refer to him. ("Harry" later became his formal name as well once he was wed and made a Duke in 2018).
If the Sussexes end up emulating the model which the Prince and Princess of Wales used with Harry, and utilize the nickname to such a widespread extent that it can be argued to be the child's common name, we should revisit the title of this article SecretName101 ( talk) 15:07, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
The claim that only two people in line were born in the United States isn't feasible. For example, several members of the Lascelles family and the Greek royal family were born in the US and the line of succession could potentially stretch to over 5,000 people. It's likely that many of them were born in the US. The source really means 2 people in about the first 60, which is a bit weak and woolly. This looks like tabloid fluff that can be cut as a near duplication of the incontestable claim that she's the highest person in line born in the US. DrKay ( talk) 15:49, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
This needs to be added because it is accurate. Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is the only great-granddaughter and grandchild of the Prince of Wales to born in America." The Duke and Duchess of Sussex welcomed Lilibet "Lili" Diana Mountbatten-Windsor on Friday, June 4, in a hospital in Santa Barbara, Calif. The child, who joins 2-year-old big brother Archie Harrison Mountbatten Windsor, is the first of the 95-year-old monarch's great-grandchildren to be born outside of the United Kingdom, following her parents' royal exit. Despite being born on American soil, Lili is eighth in the line of succession to the British throne." source https://www.eonline.com/news/1277118/lilibet-diana-is-the-queens-11th-great-grandchild-meet-the-youngest-royals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs)
It still should be properly noted for historical and accuracy purposes that Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is the first and only great-granddaughter who is a direct descendant of Britians current monarch Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles, to be born in the United States. Maud Windsor is not a great-granddaughter of Queen Elizabeth II, nor a grandchild of the next King Prince Charles. In addition, Greece is a republic and abolished the Greek monarchy. Also, Princess Lenore of Sweden, just like Maud Windsor, are not the grandkids of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles. And yes, Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is a member of the royal family. Prince Charles is her grandfather and Prince William the child's uncle. To suggest, otherwise is highly unethical and bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
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I've suggested on the talk page, that the word "Pet" name be removed. The child's parents don't refer to their child as having a "Pet" name, in their official public announcement of Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor birth. Furthermore, the term might be seen as offensive to reference a multiracial child, as having a "Pet" name to some minority visitors to Lili's Wikipedia page. Below, I edit out the term pet name and switched it to She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor doesn't have a pet name. She does have the nickname "Lili." In the sourced CNN article, Queen Elizabeth's family pet name was Lilibet, most used by only close family members. In, Lili's case her parent's made it publicly known she would be referred to by the nickname Lili, short for Lilibet. In addition, a pet name is used for someone to show love or affection, not used publicly often. While a nickname is a shortened form of a proper name. That's publicly used, in place of a first name. Hence, the reason her parents use the name, Lili.
Source Archewell link: https://archewell.com/news/congratulations-to-the-duke-and-duchess-of-sussex/
Instead of it should be listed, on her Wikipedia page as Her parents' nickname for her is "Lili" a shortened version of Lilibet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the use of the word "pet" can be seen as having racist undertones. We have to keep in mind Lilibet Montbatten-Windsor's multiracial background and certain terms or words may be seen as insensitive, to minority readers visiting her Wikipedia page. Plus, in comparison, her cousin Princess Charlotte Wikipedia page uses this description, She has been affectionately called "Lottie" and "Mignonette" by her parents no mention it being a "pet" name. Plus, Lili's parents never used the word "pet" name in describing their child's name "Lili", in their official statement to the public, on their website. I would suggest leaving off the word pet, for her. And instead, go with something like She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 16:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Defcato. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor was born at Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital in Santa Barbara, California, on 4 June 2021 at 11:40 PDT (18:40 UTC). She is named after her paternal great-grandmother, Queen Elizabeth II, whose family pet name for her is Lilibet, [1] [2] and paternal grandmother, Diana, Princess of Wales. [3] She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents.
References
BBC-titles
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
The official line of succession to the British throne (here: https://www.royal.uk/succession) does not mention Lilibet so she is not (yet) 8th in line to the throne. This could be oversight but it's beginning to look deliberate; it's been a month now. She might never join the list. Darmot and gilad ( talk) 23:01, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
She has been added to the succession now, at 8, pushing DOY down one. Darmot and gilad ( talk) 16:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Geotv is reporting that Lilibet has died: https://www.geo.tv/latest/363133-kate-middleton-working-to-pacify-meghan-markle-drama-after-lilibets-death Can someone confirm with another source?
fr24 is reporting the same: www.fr24news.com/a/2021/08/kate-middleton-works-to-pacify-meghan-markles-drama-after-lilibets-death.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.175.225.1 ( talk • contribs) 21:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
Is there any reason why her mother is written as Meghan Markle instead of Meghan, Duchess of Sussex in the infobox? Lulusword (talk) 08:06, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
From a google search:
Another excellent example of the confusion this causes can be found here. Readers in a vast majority, those who are not familiar with Wikipedia's idiosyncrasy, are likely to assume Estelle's father goes (when she was born as well as today) by the name of Daniel Westling. One should not need to click and go on to his article for the aha experience. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:53, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is it that we don't use the current name of both parents? Which is more important? For example: Someday, at Prince George of Cambridge's article, his parents name/status will change. GoodDay ( talk) 19:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
I don’t know about this stuff, but let’s just use her maiden name Meghan Markle. We don’t know her legal name. Ethan2345678 ( talk) 02:17, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
We may require a RFC on this topic. If so, would it concern only royal bios or all bios, which list the topic's parents in the infobox? GoodDay ( talk) 14:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
As far as I concerned, Wikipedia has many page about royal children, In majority of pages have mother/father’s birth/maiden name in the infobox. (E.g. Prince Frederik of Denmark has father’s birth name in the infobox) So changing all of pages in Wikipedia to first name+title (E.g. Queen Anne-Marie of Greece) takes a lot of time. In addition to that, most tabloids refer her as “Meghan Markle”. Ethan2345678 ( talk) 05:00, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
@ DrKay: These two categories, Category:21st-century American women and Category:21st-century British women have recently been added. Lilibet had already been categorized as a "child". My usual understanding of " woman" is consistent with the Wikipedia article for such. Sampajanna ( talk) 15:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
The article specifies that woman means "female human". The entire scheme of women by century categorizes human females, regardless of their age. Category:Incidents of violence against girls is a subcategory of Category:Incidents of violence against women because all girls are women. Dimadick ( talk) 16:36, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm against including them both. She's not a woman (and by that I mean "adult" female human). The two categories Category:21st-century American people and Category:21st-century British people are sufficient. Take a look at how the articles on her cousins and brother have been categorized. Keivan.f Talk 23:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
I thought it was agreed, to leave off any terms or linkage to "Pet names" for a multiracial child. The usage of that type of term may be perceived as insensitive to minority visitors of Lili's wiki page because the same approach is NOT taken for her cousin Princess Charlotte. For example, according to Charolette's wiki, no mention is made of her affectionately being called "Lottie" and "Mignonette" by her parents, as being a hypocorism or pet name. But this distinction continues to is only be made for baby Lili. Even though her parents have never referred to Lili as being a "Pet or hypocorism" name, in their official announcement of her full name. Why was the original corrected statement changed, to add a hyperlink to the term hypocorism?! I don't see such a term being used or linked for Princess Charlotte. And she goes by a diminutive form of her first name, like Lottie and Mignonette. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 19:58, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
The original name correction has been restored to the article. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
I read and do facepalm. Are you serious? Sira Aspera ( talk) 16:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Is it necessary for her to have a Wikipedia article? She may meet WP:GNG (although she's only 2 days old and the news of her birth only came out within the last hour or two). I believe the rationale for keeping Archie's article was due to his parents being a part of the royal family at the time? They are no longer working members, so this is basically the equivalent of creating a Wikipedia page for the newborn baby of two celebrities. The only new information here is her place of birth which would easily be added to her parents' articles. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 17:33, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Creating an article about a newborn was never a sensible idea. The content of this article is identical to the content of the article about her toddler brother, and that is because there is really nothing substantial to say about them. And how could there be? Surtsicna ( talk) 22:01, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Honestly I have mixed feelings about Wikipedia articles for minors when their parents have chosen to raise them as "private citizens", i.e. Archie and Lilibet. It has been established that Malia and Sasha are not indivudially notable to have their own Wikipedia articles. cookie monster (2020) 755 22:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I do not think she's notable, the only stories about her are really about her parents having a baby, not her. As per WP:INVALIDBIO her parents' notability does not confer notability on her. I would make the same argument about all famous peoples' children. Until they become notable in their own right they should not have an article. 'But they are X in line to the throne' is not one of the criteria for inclusion in wikipedia; 'Importance' does not confer 'Notability' any more than their parentage does. JeffUK ( talk) 17:06, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Not sure she would be classified as such here in the UK, but in the US would she be classified as black? 80.194.73.125 ( talk) 12:07, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
It is a good demonstration of how friabal is the concept of "race" and the like, such as "ethnicity", "ancestry" ... especially if related to physical appearance and classification of that. She has an African American grandmother, but no one who looks at her would guess if she wasn't baby Sussex, so with the known family tree. It can be claimed by those who want it and in turn claim whatever ethnic identity they want, but it is difficult for an outside observer to "classify" it as African American rather than simply as "of African American ancestry." The problem with this, of course, is that both things are racist: so much to say that it is black for the "use one drop of blood" principle so much to deny it because aesthetically it doesn't look like it. It's really problematic and the various radical identity activism movements waging war on social media each with a different idea of SJ don't help. Sira Aspera ( talk) 17:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
No. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 14:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
here's a link to a photo of Lilibet - https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a36332859/prince-harry-meghan-markle-daughter-lilibet-diana-first-photo/ 188.30.46.5 ( talk) 16:31, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Why doesn't this violate WP's child privacy rules ( WP:PRIVACY and WP:MINORS)? Their parents are clearly raising her and her brother as private citizens and the names and other information about the children are not included in other wiki pages even when they are public know. Example: Pippa Middleton's page does not name her children, even if the names are public in the newspapers. Not even the Radford family page lists the children, even though they literally have a TV show about them and that's what they are known for. In addition, clearly this page, like Archie's, is not encyclopedic: they are two children and their parents are outside the Royal Family. How can they be relevant? Sira Aspera ( talk) 15:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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She is seventh in the line of succession now Mctaylor214 ( talk) 17:52, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
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Since she’s now Princess Lilibet the article should be edited to reflect this. 2603:6080:DC01:780E:2C06:452E:2650:3988 ( talk) 00:36, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
I attempted to add this, including a reliable source, but people keep reverting it. Very strange. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 18:12, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
I already did; it got moved back despite me including a citation. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 20:36, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes, these changes need to be made on both this page and the one for her brother Prince Archie… without being reverted. The letters patent are a definitive source, and makes it clear that both are prince/princess, up until the time that the law is changed. We can always add that they have no legal obligation to use the title. Gillespk ( talk) 20:42, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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It's silly to clarify that "she's not obligated to call herself a princess". What are they gonna do? Put her in jail for not calling herself a princess? Damián A. Fernández Beanato ( talk) 02:05, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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HRH Princess Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor
According to the letters patent of 1917 the grandchildren of the current monarch are given the titles of His/Her Royal Highness Prince/Princess of … As Charles 3rd has become king, Harry’s children automatically receive those titles.
Iimmiekins ( talk) 09:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC) Iimmiekins ( talk) 09:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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Talk:Archie Mountbatten-Windsor#Supposed "legal" titles DBD 20:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
She is legally a HRH Princess now whether they choose to use it or not. Lady Meg ( talk) 23:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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-Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor
-Titles and Succession (addition):
Children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (2012)
The Queen has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm dated 31 December 2012 to declare that all the children of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales should have and enjoy the style, title and attribute of Royal Highness with the titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their Christian names or with such other titles of honour. (London Gazette 8 Jan 2013)
-Source: https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/prince_highness_docs.htm#2012 Saltyspoon45 ( talk) 15:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
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News outlets like ABC and CBC is speculating their titles without official sources. We need more reliable sources. For example ABC said that:
For example Archie, 3, could assume the title of HRH Prince Archie of Sussex. His younger sister, Lili, 1, could become HRH Princess Lili of Sussex.
This is speculation. We need to remove those sources. Justi7 ( talk) 16:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
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The title and style of the person has changed under the 1917 Letters Patent issued by King George V. The person in this article is now legally called HRH Princess Lilibet of Sussex. 110.33.35.84 ( talk) 23:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
I know that British people and Wikipedia pertaining to European use the reverse date formats (date-month-year) that American people and USA based Wikipedia uses (Month-Day-Year), but Lilbeth has one American parent and extended US family not to mention the fact that that she was born in the state of California so why are we using the British format for listing her birthday when she’s clearly growing up out of the UK and clearly will be more accustomed to American traditions/culture. I’m sure her father will bring some British customs to the family home, but Harry seems like an flexible guy wouldn’t surely not mind how his daughter will write down the date format someday in the future like example if she was writing an check to someone. 2601:547:CC01:9090:E4D6:9A04:902C:F53E ( talk) 03:25, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
When no English variety has been established and discussion does not resolve the issue, use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety(in this case, British English). Aoi (青い) ( talk) 03:40, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
As stated on the Royal Family's website her only current title is 'Miss' 184.146.162.149 ( talk) 23:44, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
A daughter of a Duke is legally a lady. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports/titles-accessible#bookmark11 King4852 ( talk) 22:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I just read this section that stated, "however her parents' wishes have always been that she not use any title" The sources offered for it don't specifically state the parents saying such a thing. Therefore, this portion of the article is incorrect and should be removed. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 01:47, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Following the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's use of Princess for their daughter, a preferance has been made known and the palace will now update their website to reflect the changes. Therefore, Lilibet is now Princess Lilibet, technically from the 8th of September 2022. [1] GandalfXLD ( talk) 13:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
References
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Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor to Princess Lilibet of Sussex. AmeliaWoooooodddsss ( talk) 16:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
There is actually no proof that the Queen approved of this name choice or that she said those words. What utter nonsense. This page is obviously the unofficial work of a Sussex fan. 82.30.177.12 ( talk) 05:24, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
I know a bunch of people are against moving the article. Could we just add a few sentences in the Titles section (for now) that states an official spokesperson from the Duke and Duchess confirmed that she was baptized as “Princess Lilibet Diana”. There are several sources including the the official site for the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles which confirm that. I guess we’re just waiting for an “official confirmation” from the Palace before doing anything else? Lady Meg ( talk) 04:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The British Royal Family Website confirm that Lilibet is now known as Princess Lilibet of Sussex. Added website Source/link to information. https://www.royal.uk/succession 2.101.175.238 ( talk) 10:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
With changes being brought about in the Title of Princess Lilibet, the infobox should be changed from person to royalty. Shubhayanb85 ( talk) 11:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
It’s official she is a princess. The Royal family’s website has confirmed that from today onward she’d be know “Princess Lillibet of Sussex”. Request to change the info box since she’s a an princess. 2405:201:C00A:A889:DD26:9302:B153:2CF9 ( talk) 11:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Similar to Archie, now that the Royal website has confirmed this, it no logner seems controversial, so performing an early close. Let me know if there are any problems with this. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor → Princess Lilibet of Sussex – There is now a reliable source https://debretts.com/royal-family/line-of-succession/ Twi light 16:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia has waited for far too long for these little court games to end, it's unfair to deny these children their birthright.Please don't speak on behalf of Wikipedia. That statement alone shows that you are not objective. And yes, you should wait for the so-called "royal webmaster" to confirm what the children's actual title will be as they did with William and Catherine's children immediately after Queen Elizabeth died. Because they are the main source of information for whatever it is that news websites and tabloids report on. Keivan.f Talk 00:49, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Keivan.f I disagree with that assertion. We’d title them after what is the common title used so long as it is also a title to which they are entitled. The palace does not need to explicitly consent to the use of that title: the standing letters of patent give royal consent to it. Therefore, if it is a name that is in active use by the individual, that is all we need. With the aforementioned Lady and Viscount, they do not make use of the title, and that is why we don’t title the a Prince and Princess. It is irrelevant as to how the palace refers to them.
If Lilibet’s parents use the title for her, that would be enough so long as the standing letters of patent remain in effect. SecretName101 ( talk) 18:34, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Letters patent, in the United Kingdom, are legal instruments generally issued by the monarch granting an office, right, title (in the peerage and baronetage), or status to a person (and sometimes in regards to corporations and cities).In other words, letters patent (not letters of patent) are legal documents published at the order of the monarch and the institution that should endorse them is the monarchy of the United Kingdom, whose website has not afforded the children with "Prince/ss" titles. Keivan.f Talk 19:09, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Buckingham Palace has said the royal website - which currently lists her and brother Archie with the titles Miss and Master - will "be updated in due course" to reflect the title.It does not say when or even what title. Is it going to be "Princess Lilibet of Sussex", "Princess Lili of Sussex", or "Princess Lilibet Diana of Sussex"? Or is Charles going to come up with a new statement or letters patent before that? This is all speculation which shows that this move is premature and a clear example of WP:CRYSTAL. Keivan.f Talk 22:24, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Why is it written saying she has no HRH , Harry still has HRH he just doesn't use it, People need to wait , not adding their own opinions to a wiki page 142.189.68.60 ( talk) 00:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
And, Harry IS still an HRH. The article implies that the title is not being used as in, it's no longer his title. That's not true. Regardless of whether he's going around USING the HRH, he IS still an HRH. 76.202.192.102 ( talk) 00:58, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The last editor of this page should correct his/her edit in the word " the first prince".Lilibet is a girl so she is a princess not a prince Qinlishu ( talk) 14:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
There is an RfC on Talk:Charles III#RfC: Inclusion of "Agnatic house" which may relate to this article. Feel free to contribute. Estar8806 ( talk) 03:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I'd like to suggest that this page be merged with "Archie Mountbatten–Windsor" and renamed something like "Children of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex" or "Family of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex", this would better reflect the status of the children and their parents wish for them not to be public figures. BENEDICT W B ( talk) 17:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Definitely disagree with this merger, they’re still far from being private citizens. Copper1993 ( talk) 17:30, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
I got this from the Italian Wiki page. Mabye add some of It?
Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor British noble, member of the royal family, second child of Harry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex Tongue follow Edit Lilibet Diana Full name Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor Birth June 4, 2021 (0 years) Dynasty Windsor Dad Henry, Duke of Sussex Mother Meghan, duchessa di Sussex Royal Family of the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth Realms Badge of the House of Windsor.svg
Royal family HM the Queen HRH the Prince of Wales S.AR the Duchess of Cornwall HRH the Duke of Cambridge S.AR the Duchess of Cambridge HRH Prince George of Cambridge HRH Princess Charlotte of Cambridge HRH Prince Louis of Cambridge The Duke of Sussex The Duchess of Sussex HRH the Duke of York HRH Princess Beatrice of York HRH Princess Eugenie of York HRH the Earl of Wessex S.AR the Countess of Wessex HRH the Royal Princess HRH the Duke of Gloucester S.AR the Duchess of Gloucester HRH the Duke of Kent S.AR the Duchess of Kent HRH Prince Michael of Kent S.AR Princess Michael of Kent S.A.R. la Principessa Alexandra Lilibet "Lili" Diana Mountbatten-Windsor ( Santa Barbara , June 4, 2021 ) is a British noble , member of the royal family , second child of Henry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan Markle .
From their website On June 4, we were blessed with the arrival of our daughter, Lili.
"She is more than we could have ever imagined, and we remain grateful for the love and prayers we've felt from across the globe.
"Thank you for your continued kindness and support during this very special time for our family." My bits The message adds that anyone wishing to send gifts is asked to "support or learn more about" organisations working for women and girls.
They have not released any photos of their daughter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.245.179.51 ( talk) 19:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Also remember that with her birth Prince Andrew has moved to 9th in succession but hasn't changes anything for the Cambridge
I know last thing, include a photo of when the duke and duchess announced the pregnancy.. Also was announced on the royal family's official instagram page.
Shouldn't "Akin to the decision her parents made for her brother Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, it is unlikely that she will have a title" be changed to something like "Akin to her brother Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, it is unlikely that she will have a title" due to the fact that her parents claim that they didn't choose for Archie to be without a title. G2ac13 ( talk) 17:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
When the nickname is notable, doesn't it usually come after the middle name when written? Like I don't care enough about it to actually try and (potentially wrongly) change it, but shouldn't it be Lilibet Diana "Lili"... and not Lilibet "Lili" Diana...? I legit don't actually know so this is a serious question. 47.20.177.163 ( talk) 17:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Given she'll be commonly known as "Lili", I'm wondering if this article should be titled at "Lili Mountbatten-Windsor" instead. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 18:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mm/dd/yyyy as she was born in the US? Grangehilllover ( talk) 21:49, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
As Lilibet was born in the US, surely her DOB should follow June 4, 2021 like her mum is August 4, 1981? It'll certainly be listed that way on her birth certificate. Grangehilllover ( talk) 21:27, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
If an article has evolved using predominantly one date format, this format should be used throughout the article, unless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic or consensus on the article's talk page.The article was using DMY first. You want to change it to MDY based on her ties to the U.S., but that being a strong enough reason is in doubt given that her ties to the British monarchy are the sole reason this article exists. That leaves reaching consensus. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 04:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Dl2000: I noticed you changed the date format (after someone decided there was consensus to change it, diff) so you might want to give your thoughts on it here. I did think Surtsicna was a bit hasty in calling consensus and changing it. The date format isn't an urgent matter and there is no harm in waiting for the discussion to play out more. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 22:43, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Look folks, when all else fails it's a good idea to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines, something that some here are oblivious to or don't understand. You can argue endlessly with your personal opinions about her citizenship (which clearly is dual American and British), how important she is in the line of succession to the British throne, or where she will grow up. But the relevant guideline when there is uncertainty about British or American usage is WP:ENGVAR: "use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety". The first usage is British, here; and it stayed that way after many edits expanding the article. So unless there is consensus to make an exception, it remains British. I also disagree that this issue is a moot point if there is a merge. This person eventually will have her own article, even if there is a merge now. By the way, as an American, I am not biased toward British English. It's just a matter of following the guideline. Sundayclose ( talk) 19:04, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Can we expect to see Lilibet's birth certificate? I would like to use it for illustration in a future RfC on this topic, if only for decoration. Surtsicna ( talk) 12:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
"11:40 PDT (18:40 UTC)" is incorrect. 1140 PDT is 1940 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.210.130 ( talk • contribs) 12:03, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
Remember that a lot of news sources listed Archie as Master are we to list Lili as Miss or Lady? Also her birth weight is 7Lbs and 11oz she was born at Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital. Also to point out Diana is her middle name not part of her first name.
The news report by Buckingham Palace was just listed on Hello magazine regarding weight.
We do not yet know how Lili will be styled. Her parents have not made an announcement; indeed, the royal family has not yet updated their website to include her in the line of succession (as of 19 days after her birth). Her style will appear there when it is updated. Seeker095 ( talk) 03:20, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
May we please change the 'parents parameters' of this article's & Archie Mountbatten-Windsor's infoboxes, to match the majority of other bio articles? GoodDay ( talk) 17:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Right now, it makes sense to title the article "Lilibet Mountbatten-Winsdor". However, sometime in the future, this may need to be revisited. Her parents have indicated her nickname will be "Lili". It is not clear how much they intend to utilize this nickname.
In the case of Lilibet's own father, his nickname ("Harry") became his common name, as opposed to his original formal name "Henry", which was almost never used to refer to him. ("Harry" later became his formal name as well once he was wed and made a Duke in 2018).
If the Sussexes end up emulating the model which the Prince and Princess of Wales used with Harry, and utilize the nickname to such a widespread extent that it can be argued to be the child's common name, we should revisit the title of this article SecretName101 ( talk) 15:07, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
The claim that only two people in line were born in the United States isn't feasible. For example, several members of the Lascelles family and the Greek royal family were born in the US and the line of succession could potentially stretch to over 5,000 people. It's likely that many of them were born in the US. The source really means 2 people in about the first 60, which is a bit weak and woolly. This looks like tabloid fluff that can be cut as a near duplication of the incontestable claim that she's the highest person in line born in the US. DrKay ( talk) 15:49, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
This needs to be added because it is accurate. Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is the only great-granddaughter and grandchild of the Prince of Wales to born in America." The Duke and Duchess of Sussex welcomed Lilibet "Lili" Diana Mountbatten-Windsor on Friday, June 4, in a hospital in Santa Barbara, Calif. The child, who joins 2-year-old big brother Archie Harrison Mountbatten Windsor, is the first of the 95-year-old monarch's great-grandchildren to be born outside of the United Kingdom, following her parents' royal exit. Despite being born on American soil, Lili is eighth in the line of succession to the British throne." source https://www.eonline.com/news/1277118/lilibet-diana-is-the-queens-11th-great-grandchild-meet-the-youngest-royals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs)
It still should be properly noted for historical and accuracy purposes that Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is the first and only great-granddaughter who is a direct descendant of Britians current monarch Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles, to be born in the United States. Maud Windsor is not a great-granddaughter of Queen Elizabeth II, nor a grandchild of the next King Prince Charles. In addition, Greece is a republic and abolished the Greek monarchy. Also, Princess Lenore of Sweden, just like Maud Windsor, are not the grandkids of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles. And yes, Lili Mountbatten-Windsor is a member of the royal family. Prince Charles is her grandfather and Prince William the child's uncle. To suggest, otherwise is highly unethical and bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
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I've suggested on the talk page, that the word "Pet" name be removed. The child's parents don't refer to their child as having a "Pet" name, in their official public announcement of Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor birth. Furthermore, the term might be seen as offensive to reference a multiracial child, as having a "Pet" name to some minority visitors to Lili's Wikipedia page. Below, I edit out the term pet name and switched it to She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor doesn't have a pet name. She does have the nickname "Lili." In the sourced CNN article, Queen Elizabeth's family pet name was Lilibet, most used by only close family members. In, Lili's case her parent's made it publicly known she would be referred to by the nickname Lili, short for Lilibet. In addition, a pet name is used for someone to show love or affection, not used publicly often. While a nickname is a shortened form of a proper name. That's publicly used, in place of a first name. Hence, the reason her parents use the name, Lili.
Source Archewell link: https://archewell.com/news/congratulations-to-the-duke-and-duchess-of-sussex/
Instead of it should be listed, on her Wikipedia page as Her parents' nickname for her is "Lili" a shortened version of Lilibet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplebrown43 ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the use of the word "pet" can be seen as having racist undertones. We have to keep in mind Lilibet Montbatten-Windsor's multiracial background and certain terms or words may be seen as insensitive, to minority readers visiting her Wikipedia page. Plus, in comparison, her cousin Princess Charlotte Wikipedia page uses this description, She has been affectionately called "Lottie" and "Mignonette" by her parents no mention it being a "pet" name. Plus, Lili's parents never used the word "pet" name in describing their child's name "Lili", in their official statement to the public, on their website. I would suggest leaving off the word pet, for her. And instead, go with something like She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 16:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Defcato. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor was born at Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital in Santa Barbara, California, on 4 June 2021 at 11:40 PDT (18:40 UTC). She is named after her paternal great-grandmother, Queen Elizabeth II, whose family pet name for her is Lilibet, [1] [2] and paternal grandmother, Diana, Princess of Wales. [3] She's referred to as "Lili" by her parents.
References
BBC-titles
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:40, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
The official line of succession to the British throne (here: https://www.royal.uk/succession) does not mention Lilibet so she is not (yet) 8th in line to the throne. This could be oversight but it's beginning to look deliberate; it's been a month now. She might never join the list. Darmot and gilad ( talk) 23:01, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
She has been added to the succession now, at 8, pushing DOY down one. Darmot and gilad ( talk) 16:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Geotv is reporting that Lilibet has died: https://www.geo.tv/latest/363133-kate-middleton-working-to-pacify-meghan-markle-drama-after-lilibets-death Can someone confirm with another source?
fr24 is reporting the same: www.fr24news.com/a/2021/08/kate-middleton-works-to-pacify-meghan-markles-drama-after-lilibets-death.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.175.225.1 ( talk • contribs) 21:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
Is there any reason why her mother is written as Meghan Markle instead of Meghan, Duchess of Sussex in the infobox? Lulusword (talk) 08:06, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
From a google search:
Another excellent example of the confusion this causes can be found here. Readers in a vast majority, those who are not familiar with Wikipedia's idiosyncrasy, are likely to assume Estelle's father goes (when she was born as well as today) by the name of Daniel Westling. One should not need to click and go on to his article for the aha experience. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:53, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
Why is it that we don't use the current name of both parents? Which is more important? For example: Someday, at Prince George of Cambridge's article, his parents name/status will change. GoodDay ( talk) 19:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
I don’t know about this stuff, but let’s just use her maiden name Meghan Markle. We don’t know her legal name. Ethan2345678 ( talk) 02:17, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
We may require a RFC on this topic. If so, would it concern only royal bios or all bios, which list the topic's parents in the infobox? GoodDay ( talk) 14:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
As far as I concerned, Wikipedia has many page about royal children, In majority of pages have mother/father’s birth/maiden name in the infobox. (E.g. Prince Frederik of Denmark has father’s birth name in the infobox) So changing all of pages in Wikipedia to first name+title (E.g. Queen Anne-Marie of Greece) takes a lot of time. In addition to that, most tabloids refer her as “Meghan Markle”. Ethan2345678 ( talk) 05:00, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
@ DrKay: These two categories, Category:21st-century American women and Category:21st-century British women have recently been added. Lilibet had already been categorized as a "child". My usual understanding of " woman" is consistent with the Wikipedia article for such. Sampajanna ( talk) 15:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
The article specifies that woman means "female human". The entire scheme of women by century categorizes human females, regardless of their age. Category:Incidents of violence against girls is a subcategory of Category:Incidents of violence against women because all girls are women. Dimadick ( talk) 16:36, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm against including them both. She's not a woman (and by that I mean "adult" female human). The two categories Category:21st-century American people and Category:21st-century British people are sufficient. Take a look at how the articles on her cousins and brother have been categorized. Keivan.f Talk 23:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
I thought it was agreed, to leave off any terms or linkage to "Pet names" for a multiracial child. The usage of that type of term may be perceived as insensitive to minority visitors of Lili's wiki page because the same approach is NOT taken for her cousin Princess Charlotte. For example, according to Charolette's wiki, no mention is made of her affectionately being called "Lottie" and "Mignonette" by her parents, as being a hypocorism or pet name. But this distinction continues to is only be made for baby Lili. Even though her parents have never referred to Lili as being a "Pet or hypocorism" name, in their official announcement of her full name. Why was the original corrected statement changed, to add a hyperlink to the term hypocorism?! I don't see such a term being used or linked for Princess Charlotte. And she goes by a diminutive form of her first name, like Lottie and Mignonette. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 19:58, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
The original name correction has been restored to the article. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 22:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
I read and do facepalm. Are you serious? Sira Aspera ( talk) 16:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Is it necessary for her to have a Wikipedia article? She may meet WP:GNG (although she's only 2 days old and the news of her birth only came out within the last hour or two). I believe the rationale for keeping Archie's article was due to his parents being a part of the royal family at the time? They are no longer working members, so this is basically the equivalent of creating a Wikipedia page for the newborn baby of two celebrities. The only new information here is her place of birth which would easily be added to her parents' articles. Abbyjjjj96 ( talk) 17:33, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Creating an article about a newborn was never a sensible idea. The content of this article is identical to the content of the article about her toddler brother, and that is because there is really nothing substantial to say about them. And how could there be? Surtsicna ( talk) 22:01, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Honestly I have mixed feelings about Wikipedia articles for minors when their parents have chosen to raise them as "private citizens", i.e. Archie and Lilibet. It has been established that Malia and Sasha are not indivudially notable to have their own Wikipedia articles. cookie monster (2020) 755 22:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I do not think she's notable, the only stories about her are really about her parents having a baby, not her. As per WP:INVALIDBIO her parents' notability does not confer notability on her. I would make the same argument about all famous peoples' children. Until they become notable in their own right they should not have an article. 'But they are X in line to the throne' is not one of the criteria for inclusion in wikipedia; 'Importance' does not confer 'Notability' any more than their parentage does. JeffUK ( talk) 17:06, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Not sure she would be classified as such here in the UK, but in the US would she be classified as black? 80.194.73.125 ( talk) 12:07, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
It is a good demonstration of how friabal is the concept of "race" and the like, such as "ethnicity", "ancestry" ... especially if related to physical appearance and classification of that. She has an African American grandmother, but no one who looks at her would guess if she wasn't baby Sussex, so with the known family tree. It can be claimed by those who want it and in turn claim whatever ethnic identity they want, but it is difficult for an outside observer to "classify" it as African American rather than simply as "of African American ancestry." The problem with this, of course, is that both things are racist: so much to say that it is black for the "use one drop of blood" principle so much to deny it because aesthetically it doesn't look like it. It's really problematic and the various radical identity activism movements waging war on social media each with a different idea of SJ don't help. Sira Aspera ( talk) 17:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
No. -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 14:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
here's a link to a photo of Lilibet - https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a36332859/prince-harry-meghan-markle-daughter-lilibet-diana-first-photo/ 188.30.46.5 ( talk) 16:31, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Why doesn't this violate WP's child privacy rules ( WP:PRIVACY and WP:MINORS)? Their parents are clearly raising her and her brother as private citizens and the names and other information about the children are not included in other wiki pages even when they are public know. Example: Pippa Middleton's page does not name her children, even if the names are public in the newspapers. Not even the Radford family page lists the children, even though they literally have a TV show about them and that's what they are known for. In addition, clearly this page, like Archie's, is not encyclopedic: they are two children and their parents are outside the Royal Family. How can they be relevant? Sira Aspera ( talk) 15:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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She is seventh in the line of succession now Mctaylor214 ( talk) 17:52, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
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Since she’s now Princess Lilibet the article should be edited to reflect this. 2603:6080:DC01:780E:2C06:452E:2650:3988 ( talk) 00:36, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
I attempted to add this, including a reliable source, but people keep reverting it. Very strange. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 18:12, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
I already did; it got moved back despite me including a citation. Chessrat ( talk, contributions) 20:36, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes, these changes need to be made on both this page and the one for her brother Prince Archie… without being reverted. The letters patent are a definitive source, and makes it clear that both are prince/princess, up until the time that the law is changed. We can always add that they have no legal obligation to use the title. Gillespk ( talk) 20:42, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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It's silly to clarify that "she's not obligated to call herself a princess". What are they gonna do? Put her in jail for not calling herself a princess? Damián A. Fernández Beanato ( talk) 02:05, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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HRH Princess Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor
According to the letters patent of 1917 the grandchildren of the current monarch are given the titles of His/Her Royal Highness Prince/Princess of … As Charles 3rd has become king, Harry’s children automatically receive those titles.
Iimmiekins ( talk) 09:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC) Iimmiekins ( talk) 09:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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Talk:Archie Mountbatten-Windsor#Supposed "legal" titles DBD 20:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
She is legally a HRH Princess now whether they choose to use it or not. Lady Meg ( talk) 23:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
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-Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor
-Titles and Succession (addition):
Children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (2012)
The Queen has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm dated 31 December 2012 to declare that all the children of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales should have and enjoy the style, title and attribute of Royal Highness with the titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their Christian names or with such other titles of honour. (London Gazette 8 Jan 2013)
-Source: https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/prince_highness_docs.htm#2012 Saltyspoon45 ( talk) 15:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
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News outlets like ABC and CBC is speculating their titles without official sources. We need more reliable sources. For example ABC said that:
For example Archie, 3, could assume the title of HRH Prince Archie of Sussex. His younger sister, Lili, 1, could become HRH Princess Lili of Sussex.
This is speculation. We need to remove those sources. Justi7 ( talk) 16:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
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The title and style of the person has changed under the 1917 Letters Patent issued by King George V. The person in this article is now legally called HRH Princess Lilibet of Sussex. 110.33.35.84 ( talk) 23:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
I know that British people and Wikipedia pertaining to European use the reverse date formats (date-month-year) that American people and USA based Wikipedia uses (Month-Day-Year), but Lilbeth has one American parent and extended US family not to mention the fact that that she was born in the state of California so why are we using the British format for listing her birthday when she’s clearly growing up out of the UK and clearly will be more accustomed to American traditions/culture. I’m sure her father will bring some British customs to the family home, but Harry seems like an flexible guy wouldn’t surely not mind how his daughter will write down the date format someday in the future like example if she was writing an check to someone. 2601:547:CC01:9090:E4D6:9A04:902C:F53E ( talk) 03:25, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
When no English variety has been established and discussion does not resolve the issue, use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety(in this case, British English). Aoi (青い) ( talk) 03:40, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
As stated on the Royal Family's website her only current title is 'Miss' 184.146.162.149 ( talk) 23:44, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
A daughter of a Duke is legally a lady. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports/titles-accessible#bookmark11 King4852 ( talk) 22:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I just read this section that stated, "however her parents' wishes have always been that she not use any title" The sources offered for it don't specifically state the parents saying such a thing. Therefore, this portion of the article is incorrect and should be removed. Purplebrown43 ( talk) 01:47, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Following the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's use of Princess for their daughter, a preferance has been made known and the palace will now update their website to reflect the changes. Therefore, Lilibet is now Princess Lilibet, technically from the 8th of September 2022. [1] GandalfXLD ( talk) 13:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
References
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Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor to Princess Lilibet of Sussex. AmeliaWoooooodddsss ( talk) 16:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
There is actually no proof that the Queen approved of this name choice or that she said those words. What utter nonsense. This page is obviously the unofficial work of a Sussex fan. 82.30.177.12 ( talk) 05:24, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
I know a bunch of people are against moving the article. Could we just add a few sentences in the Titles section (for now) that states an official spokesperson from the Duke and Duchess confirmed that she was baptized as “Princess Lilibet Diana”. There are several sources including the the official site for the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles which confirm that. I guess we’re just waiting for an “official confirmation” from the Palace before doing anything else? Lady Meg ( talk) 04:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The British Royal Family Website confirm that Lilibet is now known as Princess Lilibet of Sussex. Added website Source/link to information. https://www.royal.uk/succession 2.101.175.238 ( talk) 10:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
With changes being brought about in the Title of Princess Lilibet, the infobox should be changed from person to royalty. Shubhayanb85 ( talk) 11:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
It’s official she is a princess. The Royal family’s website has confirmed that from today onward she’d be know “Princess Lillibet of Sussex”. Request to change the info box since she’s a an princess. 2405:201:C00A:A889:DD26:9302:B153:2CF9 ( talk) 11:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Similar to Archie, now that the Royal website has confirmed this, it no logner seems controversial, so performing an early close. Let me know if there are any problems with this. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Lilibet Mountbatten-Windsor → Princess Lilibet of Sussex – There is now a reliable source https://debretts.com/royal-family/line-of-succession/ Twi light 16:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia has waited for far too long for these little court games to end, it's unfair to deny these children their birthright.Please don't speak on behalf of Wikipedia. That statement alone shows that you are not objective. And yes, you should wait for the so-called "royal webmaster" to confirm what the children's actual title will be as they did with William and Catherine's children immediately after Queen Elizabeth died. Because they are the main source of information for whatever it is that news websites and tabloids report on. Keivan.f Talk 00:49, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Keivan.f I disagree with that assertion. We’d title them after what is the common title used so long as it is also a title to which they are entitled. The palace does not need to explicitly consent to the use of that title: the standing letters of patent give royal consent to it. Therefore, if it is a name that is in active use by the individual, that is all we need. With the aforementioned Lady and Viscount, they do not make use of the title, and that is why we don’t title the a Prince and Princess. It is irrelevant as to how the palace refers to them.
If Lilibet’s parents use the title for her, that would be enough so long as the standing letters of patent remain in effect. SecretName101 ( talk) 18:34, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Letters patent, in the United Kingdom, are legal instruments generally issued by the monarch granting an office, right, title (in the peerage and baronetage), or status to a person (and sometimes in regards to corporations and cities).In other words, letters patent (not letters of patent) are legal documents published at the order of the monarch and the institution that should endorse them is the monarchy of the United Kingdom, whose website has not afforded the children with "Prince/ss" titles. Keivan.f Talk 19:09, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Buckingham Palace has said the royal website - which currently lists her and brother Archie with the titles Miss and Master - will "be updated in due course" to reflect the title.It does not say when or even what title. Is it going to be "Princess Lilibet of Sussex", "Princess Lili of Sussex", or "Princess Lilibet Diana of Sussex"? Or is Charles going to come up with a new statement or letters patent before that? This is all speculation which shows that this move is premature and a clear example of WP:CRYSTAL. Keivan.f Talk 22:24, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Why is it written saying she has no HRH , Harry still has HRH he just doesn't use it, People need to wait , not adding their own opinions to a wiki page 142.189.68.60 ( talk) 00:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
And, Harry IS still an HRH. The article implies that the title is not being used as in, it's no longer his title. That's not true. Regardless of whether he's going around USING the HRH, he IS still an HRH. 76.202.192.102 ( talk) 00:58, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
The last editor of this page should correct his/her edit in the word " the first prince".Lilibet is a girl so she is a princess not a prince Qinlishu ( talk) 14:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
There is an RfC on Talk:Charles III#RfC: Inclusion of "Agnatic house" which may relate to this article. Feel free to contribute. Estar8806 ( talk) 03:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)