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![]() | This article contains a translation of Irlandês arcaico from pt.wikipedia. |
I find it hard to believe that Primitive Irish did not have initial mutations, as this is a shared feature amongst all Celtic languages, including those not descended from Primitive Irish. Is it being suggested that they developed in both the Brythonic languages and the Goidelic ones independently? How come it's such a rare feature among Indo-European languages then? I just doesn't seem likely. Also, the sentence affirming that is not referenced, so if it is true could someone please find the source? 84.77.111.117 ( talk) 16:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
It is clear that Primitive Irish was miles away from Old Irish, because many typical features are not (yet) apparent. But is any typically Irish feature at all apparent in these inscriptions? Does this Ogham Irish even differ from Proto-Celtic? Steinbach ( talk) 11:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
The map shows Ogham inscriptions in not only Ireland, but also England ( Cornwall), Wales, and Isle of Man. Does this mean that Primitiv Irish was also spoken there? Or does it mean Ogham inscriptions, including ones that represented a different language?-- Solomonfromfinland ( talk) 03:44, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Sobreira ( talk · contribs), your questions about the translation of MAQQI as "of the son" and AVVI as "of the grandson" are probably best addressed here on the talk page, not with clarify tags.
Basically, English, and your native language of Portuguese, do not have grammatical case, and speakers of those languages struggle to understand languages that do. It's generally throught that in a Gaelic Surname like, say, Mac Domhnaill, the "Mac" means "son of". It doesn't. It just means "son". "Domhnaill" means "of Domhnall". It's in the genitive case, which is roughly equivalent to the English possessive 's. Because English doesn't use cases*, we analyse the words wrongly and ascribe the "of" element to the wrong word.
In most ogham inscriptions, the whole thing is in the genitive case, including the word for "son". The example in the article, DALAGNI MAQI DALI: Dalagni is the genitive of an assumed Dalagnos, "of Dalagnos"; Maqi is the genitive Maqos, "son" (because it modifies the preceeding noun, and therefore must be in the same case as the noun it modifies), and means "of the son"; and Dali is the genitive an assumed Dalos, "of Dalos".
I hope this provides the clarification you're looking for. I will remove the clarify tags. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 10:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Proto gaelic. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 12#Proto gaelic until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
16:16, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This article contains a translation of Irlandês arcaico from pt.wikipedia. |
I find it hard to believe that Primitive Irish did not have initial mutations, as this is a shared feature amongst all Celtic languages, including those not descended from Primitive Irish. Is it being suggested that they developed in both the Brythonic languages and the Goidelic ones independently? How come it's such a rare feature among Indo-European languages then? I just doesn't seem likely. Also, the sentence affirming that is not referenced, so if it is true could someone please find the source? 84.77.111.117 ( talk) 16:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
It is clear that Primitive Irish was miles away from Old Irish, because many typical features are not (yet) apparent. But is any typically Irish feature at all apparent in these inscriptions? Does this Ogham Irish even differ from Proto-Celtic? Steinbach ( talk) 11:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
The map shows Ogham inscriptions in not only Ireland, but also England ( Cornwall), Wales, and Isle of Man. Does this mean that Primitiv Irish was also spoken there? Or does it mean Ogham inscriptions, including ones that represented a different language?-- Solomonfromfinland ( talk) 03:44, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Sobreira ( talk · contribs), your questions about the translation of MAQQI as "of the son" and AVVI as "of the grandson" are probably best addressed here on the talk page, not with clarify tags.
Basically, English, and your native language of Portuguese, do not have grammatical case, and speakers of those languages struggle to understand languages that do. It's generally throught that in a Gaelic Surname like, say, Mac Domhnaill, the "Mac" means "son of". It doesn't. It just means "son". "Domhnaill" means "of Domhnall". It's in the genitive case, which is roughly equivalent to the English possessive 's. Because English doesn't use cases*, we analyse the words wrongly and ascribe the "of" element to the wrong word.
In most ogham inscriptions, the whole thing is in the genitive case, including the word for "son". The example in the article, DALAGNI MAQI DALI: Dalagni is the genitive of an assumed Dalagnos, "of Dalagnos"; Maqi is the genitive Maqos, "son" (because it modifies the preceeding noun, and therefore must be in the same case as the noun it modifies), and means "of the son"; and Dali is the genitive an assumed Dalos, "of Dalos".
I hope this provides the clarification you're looking for. I will remove the clarify tags. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 10:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Proto gaelic. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 12#Proto gaelic until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,
Rosguill
talk
16:16, 12 April 2021 (UTC)