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I removed the bit about Dutch and his men being Delta Force. They are not US military in the film; the novel makes it clear they are in fact private military contractors occasionally employed by the US army. Hints of this remain in the film, most obviously the fact that Dutch and his team apparently have the option to pick and choose operations at will, which serving personnel would never be able to do - if they were enlisted, they would simply have to follow orders regardless of whether they wanted to or not. This alone proves they aren't military personnel, special forces or otherwise.-- Leigh Burne ( talk) 08:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
It is clear they are a paramilitary group, not a military one. Dutch is Army Airborne but the film nor script do not establish him as Special Forces. He might have been but maybe not too. Jason Quinn ( talk) 04:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
It took a bit of effort but I found the location for the map that General Phillips shows Dutch. The map is of the Chapada das Mangabeiras area in Brazil (easily seen in-full on the zoomed-out shot and in-part in the zoomed-in shot as it is in the largest font on the map) centered on about 10°13′S 44°38′W / 10.217°S 44.633°W. The missing helicopter seems to have gone down in the Parnaguá municipality. The key information I used to crack it was the municipality of Xique-Xique which can be seen to be located on the Rio São Francisco in the lower right portion of the zoomed map shown in the film.
Also interesting are the FIR/ UIR lines on the map. One is the RECIFE FIR/UIR, which is Brazilan, and the adjacent one says BELEM FIR/UIR. Jason Quinn ( talk) 11:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I recently removed some phrases implying that Dutch and Dillon were in Vietnam because I believed the film did not support this. Dillon does say at the 9:00 mark while in the chopper, "I was in '72, north of Huế. Me and Dutch both got one." while holding an Airborne zippo lighter. This dialogue is not in the script, which just says "Dillon seems comfortable with the men, showing Ramirez a battered CIGARETTE LIGHTER from a famed commando unit from the past." Those statements could be reinserted. Jason Quinn ( talk) 13:45, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
Just for future reference, General Philips is a
Major General (two stars on hat and collar). Major Generals are addressed as "General" as in the film and are the highest peace time ranking. He's wearing an
82nd Airborne Division patch with Airborne tab on his right shoulder (visible during opening scenes). Presumably, he is supposed to be the general of the 82nd Division.
In the helicopter, Dillon says that he and Dutch got Airborne lighters, so they too were in the Airborne Division also likely the 82nd which would explain why Dutch has respect for Philips who would have likely been one of Dutch and Dillon's superiors at the time. The 82nd Airborne is also based out of Fort Bragg which is consistent with how Dutch knew the "Green Berets out of Fort Bragg".
Visible at the end of the film, while he's in the helicopter, Philips can be seen wearing a 3rd award (notice the two stars above) Combat Infantryman Badge, which is awarded for action in Vietnam. Below this he's also wearing an Airborne master parachutist badge but it's very difficult to discern unless you pause an high-res copy right at the moment he appears in the helicopter.
Also visible on his left shoulder is this combination of a "Special Forces" tab with a shield patch of horse with a lightning bolt. According to the link the shield patch is a "US Army 1st Special Operations Command (Airborne) (1st SOCOM) patch". But 1st Special Operations command is a new thing according to our article for that it was established only recently, much after the film. So there's some history there that I don't yet know (and our article ignores). They were apparently also active in the Vietnam War (see commons:Category:1st Special Forces Group in the Vietnam War), which would have been Philips' case. Jason Quinn ( talk) 09:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC) (Struck erroneous claim Jason Quinn ( talk) 01:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC))
It's noted in the article but to keep this together: name patch says "Philips" but spelled as "Phillips" in end credits. Jason Quinn ( talk) 13:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Val Verde was removed as the setting given in the novelization (@ Leigh Burne:) and replaced with Guatemala. Many websites give Val Verde as the novelization's source so I'm wondering if this is correct. Perhaps both are correct. The story takes place in more than one country. During Dutch's initial briefing he's told, "We lost a cabinet minister and his aide from this charming little country". But Dutch asks regarding the location of the downed chopper, "This cabinet minister, does he always travel on the wrong side of the border?" So Dutch's team had to cross a border for their rescue. It's very possible that in the novel, Dutch and his team arrive in Guatemala for the briefing but after the helicopter trip the setting changes to Val Verde for the search for the chopper. Jason Quinn ( talk) 12:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
switch 66.29.210.6 ( talk) 03:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Predator (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
I removed the bit about Dutch and his men being Delta Force. They are not US military in the film; the novel makes it clear they are in fact private military contractors occasionally employed by the US army. Hints of this remain in the film, most obviously the fact that Dutch and his team apparently have the option to pick and choose operations at will, which serving personnel would never be able to do - if they were enlisted, they would simply have to follow orders regardless of whether they wanted to or not. This alone proves they aren't military personnel, special forces or otherwise.-- Leigh Burne ( talk) 08:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
It is clear they are a paramilitary group, not a military one. Dutch is Army Airborne but the film nor script do not establish him as Special Forces. He might have been but maybe not too. Jason Quinn ( talk) 04:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
It took a bit of effort but I found the location for the map that General Phillips shows Dutch. The map is of the Chapada das Mangabeiras area in Brazil (easily seen in-full on the zoomed-out shot and in-part in the zoomed-in shot as it is in the largest font on the map) centered on about 10°13′S 44°38′W / 10.217°S 44.633°W. The missing helicopter seems to have gone down in the Parnaguá municipality. The key information I used to crack it was the municipality of Xique-Xique which can be seen to be located on the Rio São Francisco in the lower right portion of the zoomed map shown in the film.
Also interesting are the FIR/ UIR lines on the map. One is the RECIFE FIR/UIR, which is Brazilan, and the adjacent one says BELEM FIR/UIR. Jason Quinn ( talk) 11:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I recently removed some phrases implying that Dutch and Dillon were in Vietnam because I believed the film did not support this. Dillon does say at the 9:00 mark while in the chopper, "I was in '72, north of Huế. Me and Dutch both got one." while holding an Airborne zippo lighter. This dialogue is not in the script, which just says "Dillon seems comfortable with the men, showing Ramirez a battered CIGARETTE LIGHTER from a famed commando unit from the past." Those statements could be reinserted. Jason Quinn ( talk) 13:45, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
Just for future reference, General Philips is a
Major General (two stars on hat and collar). Major Generals are addressed as "General" as in the film and are the highest peace time ranking. He's wearing an
82nd Airborne Division patch with Airborne tab on his right shoulder (visible during opening scenes). Presumably, he is supposed to be the general of the 82nd Division.
In the helicopter, Dillon says that he and Dutch got Airborne lighters, so they too were in the Airborne Division also likely the 82nd which would explain why Dutch has respect for Philips who would have likely been one of Dutch and Dillon's superiors at the time. The 82nd Airborne is also based out of Fort Bragg which is consistent with how Dutch knew the "Green Berets out of Fort Bragg".
Visible at the end of the film, while he's in the helicopter, Philips can be seen wearing a 3rd award (notice the two stars above) Combat Infantryman Badge, which is awarded for action in Vietnam. Below this he's also wearing an Airborne master parachutist badge but it's very difficult to discern unless you pause an high-res copy right at the moment he appears in the helicopter.
Also visible on his left shoulder is this combination of a "Special Forces" tab with a shield patch of horse with a lightning bolt. According to the link the shield patch is a "US Army 1st Special Operations Command (Airborne) (1st SOCOM) patch". But 1st Special Operations command is a new thing according to our article for that it was established only recently, much after the film. So there's some history there that I don't yet know (and our article ignores). They were apparently also active in the Vietnam War (see commons:Category:1st Special Forces Group in the Vietnam War), which would have been Philips' case. Jason Quinn ( talk) 09:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC) (Struck erroneous claim Jason Quinn ( talk) 01:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC))
It's noted in the article but to keep this together: name patch says "Philips" but spelled as "Phillips" in end credits. Jason Quinn ( talk) 13:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Val Verde was removed as the setting given in the novelization (@ Leigh Burne:) and replaced with Guatemala. Many websites give Val Verde as the novelization's source so I'm wondering if this is correct. Perhaps both are correct. The story takes place in more than one country. During Dutch's initial briefing he's told, "We lost a cabinet minister and his aide from this charming little country". But Dutch asks regarding the location of the downed chopper, "This cabinet minister, does he always travel on the wrong side of the border?" So Dutch's team had to cross a border for their rescue. It's very possible that in the novel, Dutch and his team arrive in Guatemala for the briefing but after the helicopter trip the setting changes to Val Verde for the search for the chopper. Jason Quinn ( talk) 12:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
switch 66.29.210.6 ( talk) 03:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)