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There must be mention here of the idea of a second Toronto-based team which is gaining support. Jmj713 ( talk) 13:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it would be best to rename this article to simply Potential National Hockey League expansion, and include any possible expansion that has been mentioned, such as Las Vegas, Kansas City, and other places, including Europe? Jmj713 ( talk) 17:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and restructured the article a bit to make it into a general expansion article. I would like to find some news items from 1996-97, to see exactly which cities were considered, because I remember there was a long list from which four cities were ultimately selected. Google News turns up articles from that time but none for free. I can see mentions of as much as 11 cities submitting bids, but no details. Jmj713 ( talk) 20:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
There's quite a bit of history of Hamilton trying to get back into the NHL. Lots of info here: http://crashingthegoalie.com/2009/02/12/nhl-back-to-hamilton-ever/ Should this data be incorporated into the Hamilton section somehow? Jmj713 ( talk) 00:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
There is indeed an ownership in Winnipeg, Mark Chipman has said on occasion that there is indeed a group of owners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rddflag ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Well now there is, a Toronto based group has taken steps to buy the atlanta thrashers, i'll get the source and include it in the article. -- Daniel ( talk) 15:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
There should be mention of previous times when two NHL teams have been in the same Canadian metropolitan area as one another, and current NHL teams that are in the same media market. 70.29.208.129 ( talk) 10:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC) just off the top of my head I can think of Montreal, Quebec, and the New York/New Jersey area (3 teams). 99.255.58.85 ( talk) 10:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
There is a bid where the bidders have said that a few games would be played in Canadian cities. However, as the club would still be a Phoenix franchise, I don't believe it falls within the scope of this article; it's just another example of neutral-site games, which have been played in the past. I propose removing the text related to this topic from the article. Isaac Lin ( talk) 19:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
On the radio today (Fan 590 in Toronto) they were talking to (i forget his name...ill edit this when i remember) who worked close with Phoenix. He said that had Gretzky not come aboard in 2001 then the wheels were in motion to move to Portland the following year. Any other leads on this city?-- Львівське ( talk) 05:57, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
In future, we'll have to mention that the Colorado Avalanche own the rights to the name 'Quebec Nordiques'. Re-location or expansion into Quebec City, doesn't automatically mean the name Nordiques can be used. GoodDay ( talk) 17:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't want to be confrontational, but I fail to see how this article is encyclopedic. It seems to me to run afoul of the principles that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill and not a crystal ball. Same for the matching KHL article. I think this may need to go for an AfD. oknazevad ( talk) 04:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
lets not forget the NHL almost expanded here, see Hampton Roads Rhinos-- 184.77.10.72 ( talk) 17:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The NHL will never expand into Europe; the high fuel prices would prevent that from happening. You're more likely to see NASCAR Sprint Cup Series drivers race in Monaco or Hockenheim Ring than you are to see the Toronto Maple Leafs move to Manchester, England or the Montreal Canadiens move to Paris, France and become the Paris Napoleons. GVnayR ( talk) 02:05, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
With a franchise relocating to Winnipeg, the article's section on expansion to Winnipeg is moot. I propose removing it. isaacl ( talk) 18:39, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
While the move is most likely imminent, it HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. The NHL Board of Governors still have to approve the sale and relocation. Until then, the Atlanta Thrashers still exist, and this article needs to continue to reflect that until the move has been made official. -- David7581 ( talk) 03:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Should this article discuss the potential realignment of the NHL that's being talked about right now? Or is this subject for a separate article? Perhaps one that would cover historical realignments and other restructuring of teams? Jmj713 ( talk) 14:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
These edits added some description of San Francisco as a potential expansion city candidate, with a citation to a personal columnist's opinion. Without any actual proposals in recent history, does this purely speculative discussion warrant inclusion in this article? isaacl ( talk) 05:44, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
The San Jose Sharks play in that market. Although the Sharks are very popular I highly doubt there is interest in bringing another team to the area. Secondcube ( talk) 23:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
There are numerous grammatical issues with this section, but before going to clean it up, I would like to establish a consensus: is this information sufficiently notable for this article? Based on the citations, other than the fact that the NHL has met with the group, and told it to assume for purposes of building an arena that the rink will never be home to an NHL team, I'm not sure if there's enough there for this to be considered a notable attempt to expand the NHL to Markham. What does everyone think? isaacl ( talk) 15:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Although Halifax is a theoretical possibility for expansion (if unlikely), I don't believe the newly-added section makes an adequate case for this. A poll of Canadians isn't a reliable source for evaluating the potential for a new NHL expansion franchise. Would someone like to take a stab at finding some reliable, non-promotional, independent citations from notable sources regarding the possibility of having an NHL team based in Halifax, before I suggest deleting this section (with no prejudice against recreating it once appropriate sources have been found)? isaacl ( talk) 16:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
News broke today about a possible 2017 deal involving Vegas, Seattle, Toronto, and Quebec City. - Sweet Nightmares 14:12, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
The adverbs indicated in added italics belowjst repeat information already provided by the verb tenses. they can be dleted without changing the meaning of the sentences in any way.
I removed these redundant adverbs, but my edits were reverted with the explanation unclear "No they're not. Especially the first one. "Have hosted" is a conditional tense, and could be followed by a "since" clause. "Previously" clarifie"
Ground Zero | t 13:28, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Cleveland, Houston, and Atlanta previously hosted major professional hockey teams.isaacl ( talk) 16:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Interesting article. By the way, since the current expansion "process" is gaining more and more coverage, should it be split off from this article once it's not so potential anymore (announcement should be in September, if I'm not mistaken)? Jmj713 ( talk) 00:47, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775295 - Official expansion applications received from Las Vegas and Quebec - not sure if or how it should be added to the article? 86.189.181.113 ( talk) 16:10, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
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The article covers a long list of potential expansion sites in the USA, and one of the explanations given to explain the failure to expand to just about each and every location is its proximity to one or more existing NHL franchises. It is true that the one market which did just get a new team was Las Vegas, which is pretty far from anywhere. But even Las Vegas is relatively close (4-5 hours' drive time) to Phoenix and Los Angeles. The NHL has not been shy in the past about placing new teams close to existing teams. In 1980, the Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary, Alberta, the year after cross-province rivals Edmonton Oilers joined the league. In 1982, the New Jersey Devils moved into a market which already had two teams (The New York Rangers and New York Islanders) in a location also not too far from the Philadelphia Rangers and Hartford Whalers. In 1993, the Anaheim Ducks entered as an expansion team into the Los Angeles market, which already had a team, and which was also a warm-weather location. Also in the 1990s, the league placed not one but two expansion teams in Florida, and additionally placed the Ottawa Senators in a city about two hours from Montreal. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 18:10, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
@ Azure1233: I'm not seeing anything in the two sources of the third paragraph to suggest this information belongs in this article. The first source says nothing about the NHL, the second one only mentions it twice — once to compare arena sizes for each league and once to clarify that the city had not spoken to the NHL either, but the stated goal and topic of that article are all about the NBA. The NHL was really only mentioned more or less to clarify that no expansion to the city of San Diego is happening anytime soon, but either way this paragraph does not seem to me like it belongs here. It's very much original research to suggest that this really has much to do with the NHL's prospects for expansion. But I didn't want to just outright remove it, I didn't want to seem like a WP:DICK. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 05:12, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
In all honesty, I'm in full agreement with oknazevad. I've been mulling over having an RfC about even having articles on potential sports leagues expansion such as this one. A lot of it comes down to, "This MIGHT happen," but Wikipedia isn't about what MIGHT happen, it's about what HAS happened or WILL happen. It's a huge stretch to go from "X place has inquired about expansion" to "X place could be a site for expansion", and there is absolutely no policy-abiding way to make that happen. It's all gazing into a great, big crystal ball and extrapolating from known information using pure guesswork. If anything, I believe much of the information here can easily be condensed and placed into the article History of organizational changes in the NHL as its own subsection, with a strict reliance on info that is sourced because it certainly is relevant to mention significant attempts at organizational changes in the League, without some overly detailed fixation on hypothetical scenarios and barriers to NHL expansion or relocation. It's much more difficult to find reliable citations for things that could happen in subject areas such as this one. "Could" doesn't require an inside source, but "will" or "is pondering it" do, so literally anyone, reliable or otherwise, can say, "Such-and-such area COULD receive an NHL team." It takes actual credentials to go from "could" to "will" or "is trying to", which means "could" falls entirely outside of Wikipedia's purview.
All that being said, my concern with the San Diego section here is pretty much as said by Yosemiter. It's even more of a huge leap to suggest San Diego even belongs on this list, let alone with respect to recent information regarding their attempts to build a world-class arena. "No one said anything about the NHL coming to San Diego, but their future arena will be NHL-compatible" is a great way to sum it up, and is really all we can say about any connection between the NHL and the city of San Diego at the present time. Which all but strikes it from the list. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 22:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Zeke, the Mad Horrorist, Oknazevad, Isaacl, Azure1233, and Jmj713: So this section on San Diego has been up for a few months now for us all to stew over its possible inclusion. I am still not seeing any non-original research type sources here for any serious consideration for SD as a Potential National Hockey League expansion site in several decades. Even that was not much of a real attempt, it was market research for potential owners ("Neither bid advanced with any serious traction" is in the article here), with one deciding on a different city. Its current sources for inclusion here is "large city"[fact] + "no team"[fact] = "maybe team in city?"[speculation] That is pure WP:SYNTH. Before I remove it, I would like some outright WP:CONSENUS here first though. Yosemiter ( talk) 03:56, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
Just so nobody gets their panties in a wad over what I just did: I removed nearly everything from the intro to this section. There were some sources in it, but none of them were used elsewhere in the article, and we can figure out the useful parts later. Just getting it off the page and (mostly) out of public view seemed the most prudent thing to do based on recent conversations. If anything, I would say the good bits go on different pages, e.g. Sports in X city, but none of it seems to belong here. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 18:34, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
I've been removing talks of relocation lately because while they may seem relevant, arguably they are not; this article is solely about expansion prospects, not teams who may be relocated or places they may go, even insofar as the latter may damage expansion prospects (e.g. the Islanders being invited to play in Hartford, which never happened anyway). Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 23:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I think this discussion really only underlines the absolute absurdity of the very concept of this article. As far as I have been able to find, no such article exists for any other franchise-based league; at best, they exist solely as sections of articles about the history (that is, actual bids that succeeded) of expansion in respective leagues. This is the closest candidate we have for such an article for the NHL; this is really a strong argument for merging the relevant bits in this article with History of organizational changes in the NHL which is also truly unique to our coverage of the NHL on Wikipedia. We should not be doing things differently for each league; we need to be doing the same things for all of them. Perhaps total deletion of this article is off the table, but again, we can keep much of its content as long as we merge the two articles into one that's actually consistent with the way other leagues are covered here on Wikipedia. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 00:01, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
From a historical point of view, failed expansion or relocation bids are notable and interesting to know about. Not speculation, but if there was actual effort from a group or a city, we should have coverage of that, regardless of what transpired later. Jmj713 ( talk) 00:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
This discussion seems to be going around in circles, but, seems to me, born mainly out of a misunderstanding of the purpose, as someone mentioned earlier. In my view, the point of the article is historical record, not prediction or speculation. There have been documented official efforts by specific parties to bring an NHL team into a city, such as the Toronto Legacy, as one example. There have been more over the course of the last few decades. And who known how many undocumented or yet to be researched efforts in the 1920s and 1930s, for instance, when the league was still new. Again, the point is to document these efforts and not have them fall through the cracks of history, rather than be a listing of cities where the NHL will certainly expand to. Unlike the MLS, which seems to have a very aggressive and structured expansion plan, the NHL's expansion plans start and end with Seattle, which is already an existing franchise at this point. Quebec is the only real other selection. But there have always been attempts in the past. That's why we even have a section on European expansion, because while it's exceeding highly unlikely, there was a time when such talk was happening, not concrete plans or efforts, but comments and discussions made by people involved in the league. If the NHL would come out today and say the league will 100% never expand outside North America, we still can't remove that section, because it's part of the history. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:15, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Just change the article title to Potential National Hockey League expansion and relocation. GoodDay ( talk) 22:02, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Nothing against what sources might say in this article. But the continued expression of "bringing back the Nordiques" is mis-leading to our readers. The Nordiques are 'now' the Colorado Avalanche. The only way to 'bring back' the Nordiques, would be to re-locate the Avalanche back to Quebec City. GoodDay ( talk) 01:02, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Before I make the go ahead to create the topic in the article I wanted to bring it to people's attention that Connecticut's Governor Ned Lamont has been in talks with Bettmann concerned the possibility to bring the Pheonix Coyotes into Hartford. (Sources: 1) https://www.si.com/nhl/2023/05/20/connecticut-governor-ned-lamont-meet-with-nhl-about-bringing-back-franchise-hartford-whalers-coyotes-relocation and 2) https://www.boston.com/sports/sports-news/2023/06/14/hartford-whalers-return-connecticut-governor-ned-lamont-comments/)
While I am aware that, there would be obstacles concerning the renovations that would be needed for the XL Center to be made and funding for the relocation, and how that could cause some competition between Boston and New York teams, and of course re-adjusting the divisions and conferences. I don't think it would hurt to put that back into the article due to the news that has been coming out in recent months. Especially considering that some people in Western Mass and the Springfield-Hartford business district would welcome the relocation and the re-ignition of the Boston-Hartford rivalry. DioShiba ( talk) 15:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
I don't think I agree with the renaming of this page. Expansion of the NHL is covered in History of organizational changes in the NHL. As I understand it, this article's subject is future cities for the NHL, as discussed earlier on this talk page. isaacl ( talk) 00:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
The only solution would be to split the page. Put all info about expanded teams into their own page. GoodDay ( talk) 23:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
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There must be mention here of the idea of a second Toronto-based team which is gaining support. Jmj713 ( talk) 13:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it would be best to rename this article to simply Potential National Hockey League expansion, and include any possible expansion that has been mentioned, such as Las Vegas, Kansas City, and other places, including Europe? Jmj713 ( talk) 17:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and restructured the article a bit to make it into a general expansion article. I would like to find some news items from 1996-97, to see exactly which cities were considered, because I remember there was a long list from which four cities were ultimately selected. Google News turns up articles from that time but none for free. I can see mentions of as much as 11 cities submitting bids, but no details. Jmj713 ( talk) 20:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
There's quite a bit of history of Hamilton trying to get back into the NHL. Lots of info here: http://crashingthegoalie.com/2009/02/12/nhl-back-to-hamilton-ever/ Should this data be incorporated into the Hamilton section somehow? Jmj713 ( talk) 00:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
There is indeed an ownership in Winnipeg, Mark Chipman has said on occasion that there is indeed a group of owners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rddflag ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Well now there is, a Toronto based group has taken steps to buy the atlanta thrashers, i'll get the source and include it in the article. -- Daniel ( talk) 15:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
There should be mention of previous times when two NHL teams have been in the same Canadian metropolitan area as one another, and current NHL teams that are in the same media market. 70.29.208.129 ( talk) 10:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC) just off the top of my head I can think of Montreal, Quebec, and the New York/New Jersey area (3 teams). 99.255.58.85 ( talk) 10:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
There is a bid where the bidders have said that a few games would be played in Canadian cities. However, as the club would still be a Phoenix franchise, I don't believe it falls within the scope of this article; it's just another example of neutral-site games, which have been played in the past. I propose removing the text related to this topic from the article. Isaac Lin ( talk) 19:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
On the radio today (Fan 590 in Toronto) they were talking to (i forget his name...ill edit this when i remember) who worked close with Phoenix. He said that had Gretzky not come aboard in 2001 then the wheels were in motion to move to Portland the following year. Any other leads on this city?-- Львівське ( talk) 05:57, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
In future, we'll have to mention that the Colorado Avalanche own the rights to the name 'Quebec Nordiques'. Re-location or expansion into Quebec City, doesn't automatically mean the name Nordiques can be used. GoodDay ( talk) 17:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't want to be confrontational, but I fail to see how this article is encyclopedic. It seems to me to run afoul of the principles that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill and not a crystal ball. Same for the matching KHL article. I think this may need to go for an AfD. oknazevad ( talk) 04:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
lets not forget the NHL almost expanded here, see Hampton Roads Rhinos-- 184.77.10.72 ( talk) 17:53, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The NHL will never expand into Europe; the high fuel prices would prevent that from happening. You're more likely to see NASCAR Sprint Cup Series drivers race in Monaco or Hockenheim Ring than you are to see the Toronto Maple Leafs move to Manchester, England or the Montreal Canadiens move to Paris, France and become the Paris Napoleons. GVnayR ( talk) 02:05, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
With a franchise relocating to Winnipeg, the article's section on expansion to Winnipeg is moot. I propose removing it. isaacl ( talk) 18:39, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
While the move is most likely imminent, it HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. The NHL Board of Governors still have to approve the sale and relocation. Until then, the Atlanta Thrashers still exist, and this article needs to continue to reflect that until the move has been made official. -- David7581 ( talk) 03:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Should this article discuss the potential realignment of the NHL that's being talked about right now? Or is this subject for a separate article? Perhaps one that would cover historical realignments and other restructuring of teams? Jmj713 ( talk) 14:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
These edits added some description of San Francisco as a potential expansion city candidate, with a citation to a personal columnist's opinion. Without any actual proposals in recent history, does this purely speculative discussion warrant inclusion in this article? isaacl ( talk) 05:44, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
The San Jose Sharks play in that market. Although the Sharks are very popular I highly doubt there is interest in bringing another team to the area. Secondcube ( talk) 23:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
There are numerous grammatical issues with this section, but before going to clean it up, I would like to establish a consensus: is this information sufficiently notable for this article? Based on the citations, other than the fact that the NHL has met with the group, and told it to assume for purposes of building an arena that the rink will never be home to an NHL team, I'm not sure if there's enough there for this to be considered a notable attempt to expand the NHL to Markham. What does everyone think? isaacl ( talk) 15:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Although Halifax is a theoretical possibility for expansion (if unlikely), I don't believe the newly-added section makes an adequate case for this. A poll of Canadians isn't a reliable source for evaluating the potential for a new NHL expansion franchise. Would someone like to take a stab at finding some reliable, non-promotional, independent citations from notable sources regarding the possibility of having an NHL team based in Halifax, before I suggest deleting this section (with no prejudice against recreating it once appropriate sources have been found)? isaacl ( talk) 16:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
News broke today about a possible 2017 deal involving Vegas, Seattle, Toronto, and Quebec City. - Sweet Nightmares 14:12, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
The adverbs indicated in added italics belowjst repeat information already provided by the verb tenses. they can be dleted without changing the meaning of the sentences in any way.
I removed these redundant adverbs, but my edits were reverted with the explanation unclear "No they're not. Especially the first one. "Have hosted" is a conditional tense, and could be followed by a "since" clause. "Previously" clarifie"
Ground Zero | t 13:28, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Cleveland, Houston, and Atlanta previously hosted major professional hockey teams.isaacl ( talk) 16:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Interesting article. By the way, since the current expansion "process" is gaining more and more coverage, should it be split off from this article once it's not so potential anymore (announcement should be in September, if I'm not mistaken)? Jmj713 ( talk) 00:47, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775295 - Official expansion applications received from Las Vegas and Quebec - not sure if or how it should be added to the article? 86.189.181.113 ( talk) 16:10, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
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The article covers a long list of potential expansion sites in the USA, and one of the explanations given to explain the failure to expand to just about each and every location is its proximity to one or more existing NHL franchises. It is true that the one market which did just get a new team was Las Vegas, which is pretty far from anywhere. But even Las Vegas is relatively close (4-5 hours' drive time) to Phoenix and Los Angeles. The NHL has not been shy in the past about placing new teams close to existing teams. In 1980, the Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary, Alberta, the year after cross-province rivals Edmonton Oilers joined the league. In 1982, the New Jersey Devils moved into a market which already had two teams (The New York Rangers and New York Islanders) in a location also not too far from the Philadelphia Rangers and Hartford Whalers. In 1993, the Anaheim Ducks entered as an expansion team into the Los Angeles market, which already had a team, and which was also a warm-weather location. Also in the 1990s, the league placed not one but two expansion teams in Florida, and additionally placed the Ottawa Senators in a city about two hours from Montreal. Timothy Horrigan ( talk) 18:10, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
@ Azure1233: I'm not seeing anything in the two sources of the third paragraph to suggest this information belongs in this article. The first source says nothing about the NHL, the second one only mentions it twice — once to compare arena sizes for each league and once to clarify that the city had not spoken to the NHL either, but the stated goal and topic of that article are all about the NBA. The NHL was really only mentioned more or less to clarify that no expansion to the city of San Diego is happening anytime soon, but either way this paragraph does not seem to me like it belongs here. It's very much original research to suggest that this really has much to do with the NHL's prospects for expansion. But I didn't want to just outright remove it, I didn't want to seem like a WP:DICK. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 05:12, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
In all honesty, I'm in full agreement with oknazevad. I've been mulling over having an RfC about even having articles on potential sports leagues expansion such as this one. A lot of it comes down to, "This MIGHT happen," but Wikipedia isn't about what MIGHT happen, it's about what HAS happened or WILL happen. It's a huge stretch to go from "X place has inquired about expansion" to "X place could be a site for expansion", and there is absolutely no policy-abiding way to make that happen. It's all gazing into a great, big crystal ball and extrapolating from known information using pure guesswork. If anything, I believe much of the information here can easily be condensed and placed into the article History of organizational changes in the NHL as its own subsection, with a strict reliance on info that is sourced because it certainly is relevant to mention significant attempts at organizational changes in the League, without some overly detailed fixation on hypothetical scenarios and barriers to NHL expansion or relocation. It's much more difficult to find reliable citations for things that could happen in subject areas such as this one. "Could" doesn't require an inside source, but "will" or "is pondering it" do, so literally anyone, reliable or otherwise, can say, "Such-and-such area COULD receive an NHL team." It takes actual credentials to go from "could" to "will" or "is trying to", which means "could" falls entirely outside of Wikipedia's purview.
All that being said, my concern with the San Diego section here is pretty much as said by Yosemiter. It's even more of a huge leap to suggest San Diego even belongs on this list, let alone with respect to recent information regarding their attempts to build a world-class arena. "No one said anything about the NHL coming to San Diego, but their future arena will be NHL-compatible" is a great way to sum it up, and is really all we can say about any connection between the NHL and the city of San Diego at the present time. Which all but strikes it from the list. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 22:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Zeke, the Mad Horrorist, Oknazevad, Isaacl, Azure1233, and Jmj713: So this section on San Diego has been up for a few months now for us all to stew over its possible inclusion. I am still not seeing any non-original research type sources here for any serious consideration for SD as a Potential National Hockey League expansion site in several decades. Even that was not much of a real attempt, it was market research for potential owners ("Neither bid advanced with any serious traction" is in the article here), with one deciding on a different city. Its current sources for inclusion here is "large city"[fact] + "no team"[fact] = "maybe team in city?"[speculation] That is pure WP:SYNTH. Before I remove it, I would like some outright WP:CONSENUS here first though. Yosemiter ( talk) 03:56, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
Just so nobody gets their panties in a wad over what I just did: I removed nearly everything from the intro to this section. There were some sources in it, but none of them were used elsewhere in the article, and we can figure out the useful parts later. Just getting it off the page and (mostly) out of public view seemed the most prudent thing to do based on recent conversations. If anything, I would say the good bits go on different pages, e.g. Sports in X city, but none of it seems to belong here. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 18:34, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
I've been removing talks of relocation lately because while they may seem relevant, arguably they are not; this article is solely about expansion prospects, not teams who may be relocated or places they may go, even insofar as the latter may damage expansion prospects (e.g. the Islanders being invited to play in Hartford, which never happened anyway). Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 23:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I think this discussion really only underlines the absolute absurdity of the very concept of this article. As far as I have been able to find, no such article exists for any other franchise-based league; at best, they exist solely as sections of articles about the history (that is, actual bids that succeeded) of expansion in respective leagues. This is the closest candidate we have for such an article for the NHL; this is really a strong argument for merging the relevant bits in this article with History of organizational changes in the NHL which is also truly unique to our coverage of the NHL on Wikipedia. We should not be doing things differently for each league; we need to be doing the same things for all of them. Perhaps total deletion of this article is off the table, but again, we can keep much of its content as long as we merge the two articles into one that's actually consistent with the way other leagues are covered here on Wikipedia. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 00:01, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
From a historical point of view, failed expansion or relocation bids are notable and interesting to know about. Not speculation, but if there was actual effort from a group or a city, we should have coverage of that, regardless of what transpired later. Jmj713 ( talk) 00:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
This discussion seems to be going around in circles, but, seems to me, born mainly out of a misunderstanding of the purpose, as someone mentioned earlier. In my view, the point of the article is historical record, not prediction or speculation. There have been documented official efforts by specific parties to bring an NHL team into a city, such as the Toronto Legacy, as one example. There have been more over the course of the last few decades. And who known how many undocumented or yet to be researched efforts in the 1920s and 1930s, for instance, when the league was still new. Again, the point is to document these efforts and not have them fall through the cracks of history, rather than be a listing of cities where the NHL will certainly expand to. Unlike the MLS, which seems to have a very aggressive and structured expansion plan, the NHL's expansion plans start and end with Seattle, which is already an existing franchise at this point. Quebec is the only real other selection. But there have always been attempts in the past. That's why we even have a section on European expansion, because while it's exceeding highly unlikely, there was a time when such talk was happening, not concrete plans or efforts, but comments and discussions made by people involved in the league. If the NHL would come out today and say the league will 100% never expand outside North America, we still can't remove that section, because it's part of the history. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:15, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Just change the article title to Potential National Hockey League expansion and relocation. GoodDay ( talk) 22:02, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Nothing against what sources might say in this article. But the continued expression of "bringing back the Nordiques" is mis-leading to our readers. The Nordiques are 'now' the Colorado Avalanche. The only way to 'bring back' the Nordiques, would be to re-locate the Avalanche back to Quebec City. GoodDay ( talk) 01:02, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Before I make the go ahead to create the topic in the article I wanted to bring it to people's attention that Connecticut's Governor Ned Lamont has been in talks with Bettmann concerned the possibility to bring the Pheonix Coyotes into Hartford. (Sources: 1) https://www.si.com/nhl/2023/05/20/connecticut-governor-ned-lamont-meet-with-nhl-about-bringing-back-franchise-hartford-whalers-coyotes-relocation and 2) https://www.boston.com/sports/sports-news/2023/06/14/hartford-whalers-return-connecticut-governor-ned-lamont-comments/)
While I am aware that, there would be obstacles concerning the renovations that would be needed for the XL Center to be made and funding for the relocation, and how that could cause some competition between Boston and New York teams, and of course re-adjusting the divisions and conferences. I don't think it would hurt to put that back into the article due to the news that has been coming out in recent months. Especially considering that some people in Western Mass and the Springfield-Hartford business district would welcome the relocation and the re-ignition of the Boston-Hartford rivalry. DioShiba ( talk) 15:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
I don't think I agree with the renaming of this page. Expansion of the NHL is covered in History of organizational changes in the NHL. As I understand it, this article's subject is future cities for the NHL, as discussed earlier on this talk page. isaacl ( talk) 00:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
The only solution would be to split the page. Put all info about expanded teams into their own page. GoodDay ( talk) 23:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)