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It's not disputed island and Korean name for the island is Komundo. There is no reason for Hamilton to be used. In english speaking world, Komundo is used. I don't see any wide spread or established use of Hamilton [1]. It's just nonsense to use Hamilton. Bring me more convincing evidences why ths island should be called Hamilton. Ginnre 18:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
ALso, there seems to be multiple British places named Port Hamilton, and the name Port Hamilton does not apply to Komundo in modern times.. [3] [4] [5] Deiaemeth 07:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Geomundo: 10,200 results http://www.google.com/search?q=Geomundo+Korea+-Wikipedia
Port Hamilton: 924 results http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Port+Hamilton%22+Korea+-Wikipedia
What if we apply WP:IAR? Then we could move this article to the Korean name. The island is under control of South Korea and edit counts on google does not apply here (and google is way too inaccurate with "number of hits", something that people like to make a big deal about).
The article should definitely moved to port hamilton regardless of edit counts on google because South Korea controls this island. Good friend100 20:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Port Hamilton is the former name. Try Googling "Port Hamilton".
"Where self-identifying names are in use, they should be used within articles. Wikipedia does not take any position on whether a self-identifying entity has any right to use a name; this encyclopedia merely notes the fact that they do use that name." Wikipedia:Naming conflict WikiWitchWest 04:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
See also Encyclopedia Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/search?query=%22Port+Hamilton%22&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 "Port Hamilton" no longer usually refers to Geomun-do. WikiWitchWest 04:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
See also the USBGN Geo Name Server, the Korean name is the official standard English name. Port Hamilton is one of many variants, but the self-identifying name is the U.S. standard name for this place. http://gnswww.nga.mil/geonames/Gazetteer/Search/Results.jsp?Feature__Unique_Feature_ID=-709744&Diacritics=Yes&reload=1 WikiWitchWest 04:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
as do many Korean sources when they are writing in English.
— LactoseTI T 05:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Dokdo? Dokdo isn't an English word and yet it is the current name of the article.
Also, Port Hamilton should not be used for consistency reasons. Some could claim that "Liancourt Rocks" is more commonly used than "Dokdo" but Dokdo is used. Jeju-do, Ulleung-do and all the other hundreds of islands in Korea are named in Korean. Good friend100 21:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Port Hamilton →
Geomun-do — This is a procedural discussion, and I do not have an opinion on the matter. It has been suggested that "Geomun-do" is more commonly used in English than "Port Hamilton" to refer to this island. Please offer your opinion below and any supporting evidence in support of your stance. Please try to be concise in order to keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand. Any off-topic comments may be removed. This article has been protected from being moved so that consensus may be reached before any move is made. Thank you. ···
日本穣
? ·
Talk to
Nihon
joe
05:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Even the pictures in the article itself which are for the most part written in Korean indicate the name in English is Port Hamilton, relegating the Korean name to a parenthetical remark. — LactoseTI T 06:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The island is a South Korean territory. There are no naming disputes on the island so there is no reason to keep a 19th century name on it. Good friend100 20:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In response to LactoseTI, another example is Ulleungdo, formerly known as "Dagelet Island", and hardly an international tourist hotspot. Korea's local islands are today referred to by the local names internationally, even by the U.S. government. Geomun-do is pretty obscure, but that's no reason to keep calling it by the 19th century name. And the maps in the article were made very recently, obviously by someone just working from the article title. Those are circular arguments. And as for ambiguity of "Port Hamilton", please just try Googling that name.
Finally, I don't really care if it's Komundo or Geomun-do, those are just different romanization systems. I thought Geomun-do was the Wikipedia-style romanization (following Ulleung and Jeju), but either is acceptable. WikiWitchWest 07:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The path through which most people will read about this island would be travel agencies [7], tourism board sites [8], and asia portals [9] [10] which use "Geomundo", especially due to the upcoming Expo 2012 [11] [12]
Do you have any evidence that the Library of Congress [13] and NOAA [14] are bowing to "political pressure", as opposed to accurately describing the modern English name?
Who suggested there are multiple Port Hamiltons in Korea or Asia? I suggested you Google "Port Hamilton" to see what that name most often refers to. It's not this island. WikiWitchWest 18:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The point is people looking for "Port Hamilton" are not looking for this Korean island. It's already ambiguous. The unambigous English name used by Korea and the U.S. is Geomundo.
Also, Komdori, I see that after Lactose recruited you to support him here, you've been selectively contacting a lot of other editors you think can be on your side. Is this acceptable behavior? Should I contact everyone who I think might be on "my side"? Are we being tested on spamming skills?
The consensus opinion is already clear, especially if you add Ginnre and Deiameth from the earlier discussion above. Only Lactose and his friend (and maybe that friend's friends) are opposed. WikiWitchWest 22:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
"marshal support" as Visviva once put it. I personally think its dirty going to places where you can get support and blaring out that thers this problem. =) Good friend100 22:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Did you read Visva's comments? What exactly is "stupid" about accurately noting that only you and your friend are opposed? Geomun-do is not ambiguous. This article should not be renamed "Geomundo" because that is ambiguous, but "Geomun-do" (or the alternative spelling "Komundo") are not ambiguous.
And how did you determine the "neutral" editors to solicit? We will see if any of them comment here how predictable they are. WikiWitchWest 22:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Policy is pretty clear here. 1. Is there a standard modern English name? Not really. 2. Is there a standard historical English name? Yes. We don't get as far as question three, which is where the native names come in. Until the islands become significant in a modern setting (which would presumably be reflected in the article), the historical name will be used. The article currently states the islands' position, and then discusses the 19th-century military base, with no further discussion of their status in the 21st-century. The arguments about disambiguation are ill-founded. There are no other articles about a "Port Hamilton" in Wikipedia, and even the dablinks on this article don't point to any confusible articles. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. -- Stemonitis 06:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
The article mentions Russian Vice-Admiral E. Putiatin. Is he and Yevfimy Putyatin the same person? Although his first name does not start with E, Cyrillic Ye does look Latin letter E so there might be some confusion. -- Kusunose 09:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's not disputed island and Korean name for the island is Komundo. There is no reason for Hamilton to be used. In english speaking world, Komundo is used. I don't see any wide spread or established use of Hamilton [1]. It's just nonsense to use Hamilton. Bring me more convincing evidences why ths island should be called Hamilton. Ginnre 18:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
ALso, there seems to be multiple British places named Port Hamilton, and the name Port Hamilton does not apply to Komundo in modern times.. [3] [4] [5] Deiaemeth 07:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Geomundo: 10,200 results http://www.google.com/search?q=Geomundo+Korea+-Wikipedia
Port Hamilton: 924 results http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Port+Hamilton%22+Korea+-Wikipedia
What if we apply WP:IAR? Then we could move this article to the Korean name. The island is under control of South Korea and edit counts on google does not apply here (and google is way too inaccurate with "number of hits", something that people like to make a big deal about).
The article should definitely moved to port hamilton regardless of edit counts on google because South Korea controls this island. Good friend100 20:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Port Hamilton is the former name. Try Googling "Port Hamilton".
"Where self-identifying names are in use, they should be used within articles. Wikipedia does not take any position on whether a self-identifying entity has any right to use a name; this encyclopedia merely notes the fact that they do use that name." Wikipedia:Naming conflict WikiWitchWest 04:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
See also Encyclopedia Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/search?query=%22Port+Hamilton%22&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 "Port Hamilton" no longer usually refers to Geomun-do. WikiWitchWest 04:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
See also the USBGN Geo Name Server, the Korean name is the official standard English name. Port Hamilton is one of many variants, but the self-identifying name is the U.S. standard name for this place. http://gnswww.nga.mil/geonames/Gazetteer/Search/Results.jsp?Feature__Unique_Feature_ID=-709744&Diacritics=Yes&reload=1 WikiWitchWest 04:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
as do many Korean sources when they are writing in English.
— LactoseTI T 05:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Dokdo? Dokdo isn't an English word and yet it is the current name of the article.
Also, Port Hamilton should not be used for consistency reasons. Some could claim that "Liancourt Rocks" is more commonly used than "Dokdo" but Dokdo is used. Jeju-do, Ulleung-do and all the other hundreds of islands in Korea are named in Korean. Good friend100 21:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Port Hamilton →
Geomun-do — This is a procedural discussion, and I do not have an opinion on the matter. It has been suggested that "Geomun-do" is more commonly used in English than "Port Hamilton" to refer to this island. Please offer your opinion below and any supporting evidence in support of your stance. Please try to be concise in order to keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand. Any off-topic comments may be removed. This article has been protected from being moved so that consensus may be reached before any move is made. Thank you. ···
日本穣
? ·
Talk to
Nihon
joe
05:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Even the pictures in the article itself which are for the most part written in Korean indicate the name in English is Port Hamilton, relegating the Korean name to a parenthetical remark. — LactoseTI T 06:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The island is a South Korean territory. There are no naming disputes on the island so there is no reason to keep a 19th century name on it. Good friend100 20:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In response to LactoseTI, another example is Ulleungdo, formerly known as "Dagelet Island", and hardly an international tourist hotspot. Korea's local islands are today referred to by the local names internationally, even by the U.S. government. Geomun-do is pretty obscure, but that's no reason to keep calling it by the 19th century name. And the maps in the article were made very recently, obviously by someone just working from the article title. Those are circular arguments. And as for ambiguity of "Port Hamilton", please just try Googling that name.
Finally, I don't really care if it's Komundo or Geomun-do, those are just different romanization systems. I thought Geomun-do was the Wikipedia-style romanization (following Ulleung and Jeju), but either is acceptable. WikiWitchWest 07:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The path through which most people will read about this island would be travel agencies [7], tourism board sites [8], and asia portals [9] [10] which use "Geomundo", especially due to the upcoming Expo 2012 [11] [12]
Do you have any evidence that the Library of Congress [13] and NOAA [14] are bowing to "political pressure", as opposed to accurately describing the modern English name?
Who suggested there are multiple Port Hamiltons in Korea or Asia? I suggested you Google "Port Hamilton" to see what that name most often refers to. It's not this island. WikiWitchWest 18:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
The point is people looking for "Port Hamilton" are not looking for this Korean island. It's already ambiguous. The unambigous English name used by Korea and the U.S. is Geomundo.
Also, Komdori, I see that after Lactose recruited you to support him here, you've been selectively contacting a lot of other editors you think can be on your side. Is this acceptable behavior? Should I contact everyone who I think might be on "my side"? Are we being tested on spamming skills?
The consensus opinion is already clear, especially if you add Ginnre and Deiameth from the earlier discussion above. Only Lactose and his friend (and maybe that friend's friends) are opposed. WikiWitchWest 22:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
"marshal support" as Visviva once put it. I personally think its dirty going to places where you can get support and blaring out that thers this problem. =) Good friend100 22:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Did you read Visva's comments? What exactly is "stupid" about accurately noting that only you and your friend are opposed? Geomun-do is not ambiguous. This article should not be renamed "Geomundo" because that is ambiguous, but "Geomun-do" (or the alternative spelling "Komundo") are not ambiguous.
And how did you determine the "neutral" editors to solicit? We will see if any of them comment here how predictable they are. WikiWitchWest 22:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Policy is pretty clear here. 1. Is there a standard modern English name? Not really. 2. Is there a standard historical English name? Yes. We don't get as far as question three, which is where the native names come in. Until the islands become significant in a modern setting (which would presumably be reflected in the article), the historical name will be used. The article currently states the islands' position, and then discusses the 19th-century military base, with no further discussion of their status in the 21st-century. The arguments about disambiguation are ill-founded. There are no other articles about a "Port Hamilton" in Wikipedia, and even the dablinks on this article don't point to any confusible articles. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. -- Stemonitis 06:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
The article mentions Russian Vice-Admiral E. Putiatin. Is he and Yevfimy Putyatin the same person? Although his first name does not start with E, Cyrillic Ye does look Latin letter E so there might be some confusion. -- Kusunose 09:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)