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In one paragraph, it says "The effects of a declining population are bad for an economy" but in the next it says "The average standard of living...will tend to rise as the amount of land and resources per person will be higher. The period immediately after the Black Death, for instance, was one of great prosperity, as many had inheritances from many different family members." So which is it? Or is it controversial, hence the two viewpoints? In any case, it is very confusing as it is written. ErikHaugen 19:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
it might be interesting to include late 16th century Mexico, where spanish overlords grabbed most of the land formerly inhabited by disease victims, which was to the detriment of the remaining native population.
This article is full of speculation and irrelevant correlation. For example, the "economic growth" experienced in the mid 2000's was a result of an economic bubble which has since collapsed (making several points made in this section irrelevant). Declining population has a myriad of negative effects, which arguably more severe than the benefits. This section is slanted and should be removed until everything can be cited by actual data. NPG is hardly an unbiased source for information either (as its stated goal is to encourage Negative Population Growth). Perhaps this sections "facts" can be backed up by data from national research organizations instead of ideologically aligned entities. Mrsdelaney ( talk) 02:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is incredibly poorly written and is all over the place. It repeats points and gives a barrage of facts without any apparent cohesion. It also loses focus of the effects of population decline by introducing many irrelevant statistics. It also seems fairly biased. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
173.52.103.97 (
talk)
16:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with the above comments. This section (Economic consequences) makes many valid points, but I would also say that it needs more structure, more references, and a more neutral perspective on the economic impact of population decline. Much of this section was written 10 years ago, and some of it is outdated. Plus, we now have Japan as an example of a country that is experiencing population decline and more recent research that can both shine some light on this subject. So, I plan to re-write this section to deal with these issues.
I propose the introductory sentence for this section to be: “The single best measure of economic success is growth in GDP per person, not total GDP(1). GDP/person is a rough proxy for average living standards, for individual prosperity(2). Whether population decline has a positive or negative impact on a country’s citizens generally depends on the rate of growth of per capita GDP relative to the rate of decline in the population.”
1. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2008/03/13/grossly-distorted-picture 2. https://ourworldindata.org/economic-growth
Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:27, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
This is one of the most important parts of this article. At this point the impact of pop decline is spread over three sections: • Underpopulation • Positive effects of a population decline • Economic consequences I propose to combine these into one section. The draft is at the link below. I have tried to retain everything in these three sections that is supported by citation; I’ve simply reorganized it all. The goal is to produce a neutral discussion of the positives and negatives of population decline. The edit history shows what I did, starting at Mar 26. Let me know what you think. (link removed) Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 02:02, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
The new section has been read by about 20 people and having seen no negative comments I plan to start editing the existing section as per the draft that you all have read. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
Support merger. These two articles are trying to treat the same subject. The Underpopulation article tends to bear a POV. Merging can help reconcile the very legitimate point made by erikhaugen above. Joan-of-arc 17:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Could use votes to save this article, thanks MapleTree 22:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The following user comment and content was removed from the article:
"==Material moved from overpopulation== someone had placed the following text in the overpopulation article. it was misleading in that article to emphasize the relatively small population declines compared to the large growth in other lesser developed countries. the material may be useful here:
Khatru2 02:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
From this specific paragraph, -- The population of former Soviet Republics, with the exception of Muslim majority nations and oil rich Azerbaijan, is falling due to health factors and low replacement. Much of Eastern Europe has lost population due to migration to Western Europe. In Eastern Europe and Russia, natality fell abruptly after the end of Socialism. -- I removed the Socialism at the end and replaced it with Communism. According to modern political science, Socialism is a system of economy. Many still confuse it with communism which is a combinaiton of a system of rule, oligarchy, and a system of economy, socialism. Casimiri 07:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
The mention of underpopulation states that it is not a term that is in opposition to overpopulation; this is incorrect. Underpopulation can be defined as a country which does not have a sufficient population to exploit (use) all the resources within a country to their full extent. There are arguments that countries with populations that are not skilled enough are underpopulated. The UK, for instance, it can be argued, MAY be underpopulated. Canada is certainly underpopulated. I would be interested to know if anyone could possibly argue anything different. bliz 18:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Nations may say they are underpopulated when they don't have the manpower to create an army large enough to defend themselves or beat their neighbors, but this is a question of relative population, not absolute population. Iran right now is claiming that it is underpopulated because it does not have an army big enough to threaten the west, yet they are over exploiting water and several other key resources as they are calling for more people. Thus, the idea of under population seems to be one of point of view rather than one of science. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. 74.77.123.229 ( talk) 04:16, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
the map is wrong, because germany suffers population decline and SA not.!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny-bollock-rotten ( talk • contribs) 12:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Article is a bit unbalanced at the moment, needs coverage of efforts to bring about population decline (NPG, population environment connection, etc.) Zodon ( talk) 20:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree. You can start by citing the benefits associated with a decrease in the population and mention methods to achieve it. Like better family planning, easier access to contraceptives. 2601:940:C000:46A0:798A:4DAE:8A2E:B54 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The culture of contraception, more than anything else, is what decreases fertilities. Contraceptive sex actively displaces reproductive sex because it hinders the development of taste for family life. People get the idea that sex need not have any result, so that puts sex in a vacuum and makes family life limited or non-existent. These facts need to be in article. I'm currently looking for hard info that relates contraception to decreased fertilities. I may add something later on. If not, anyone else may. 74.195.16.39 ( talk) 17:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
So, what is the truth about South Africa? Is the population increasing or decreasing? It is increasing thanks to immigration from neighbor nations like Mozambique and Zimbawe....or is it decreasing as a consequence of AIDS?-- 83.35.180.179 ( talk) 03:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Currently the table entry for the cause of decline in Russia is "more deaths than births". Seems a bit vague... Ordinary Person ( talk) 04:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The replacement rate is the rate necessary for parents to replace themselves in the population. It is not fertility greater than mortality. Thus, you can have replacement rate level fertility and have population growth if you have an unstable age distribution with few old and many young. This is the case for most countries that are in the middle of the demographic transition at the moment and have just achieved low fertility. You can also have population decline at replacement rate fertility if you have an unstable age distribution as a baby boom reaches the age of mortality. This is the case in the US right now. Most of the mentions of replacement rate in the article are really referring to fertility below the rate of mortality, or fertility less that what is required for zero population growth. It is not clear if these are also below the replacement rate of fertility. These are major misuses of demographic terminology. Someone should fix this. Avram Primack ( talk) 04:30, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
The decline of the Roman empire is often said to have been partly a result of low-fertility on the part of the patrician classes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.169.236 ( talk) 19:57, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Country | Year | Population | % natural decrease [1] | Main reason for decrease | % decline by 2050 [2] |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() |
2009 | 7,704,687 | 0.79 | declining births and life expectancy | 34.93 |
![]() |
2009 | 1,299,371 | 0.632 | declining births | 33.25 |
![]() |
2009 | 2,231,503 | 0.614 | declining births and life expectancy | 30.38 |
![]() |
2009 | 127,078,679 | 0.191 [1] | declining births | 26.13 |
![]() |
2009 | 45,700,395 | 0.632 | declining births and life expectancy | 26.07 |
![]() |
2009 | 141,927,297 | 0.177 | declining life expectancy | 21.67 |
![]() |
2009 | 3,555,179 | 0.279 | declining births and life expectancy | 21.37 |
![]() |
2009 | 2,005,692 | 0.113 | 20.28 | |
![]() |
2009 | 9,648,533 | 0.378 | declining births and life expectancy | 19.5 |
![]() |
2009 | 38,482,919 | 0.047 | declining births | 16.58 |
'Suggering this paragraph before Long term population decline' Understanding the Decline Europe’s population has declined drastically and rapidly over the last fifty years. There are various reason why, starting with the multiple financial situations of families or single mothers now face. Low income influences low fertility rate because raising children is expensive. As a result there is a decreasing in the size of families large to smaller ones in Europe. Another major influence on low fertility rates is change in some European economies, leaving families uncertain in their future financial situations and the decision one the correct time to have children. This regulates the size of families and in some cases couples decide to not have children all together. These changes in equilibrium does not go unnoticed, the fluctuation in the European population has cause its damage, and will continue to if changes does not take place immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebony SHUwrite ( talk • contribs) 17:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
References
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I propose the following inclusion:
References
Are there any objections to including those statements in the introduction? EllenCT ( talk) 16:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
I can't take this any longer. I am unsubscribing from this and all related pages. I wish the rest of you the best of luck in dealing with this dumpster fire.
Related: The Most Important Thing Possible, Megalomaniacal point of view -- Guy Macon ( talk) 20:19, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
On the advice of Makael Haggstrom, I propose that the section Economic consequences be split into a separate page called Economic consequences of population decline. The content of the current page is too large, and, as the comments above make clear, is in need of a re-write. A draft of the new article is here: /info/en/?search=Draft:Economic_consequences_of_population_decline. If this is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (Economic consequences) and complete the split. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 15:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
The new article has been read by about 25 people and having seen no negative comments (or in fact none at all), I have moved the draft of the new article to main space and have added a "Main article" link to it in the Economic consequences section. Next step is to summarize the existing Economic consequences section. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:25, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
This section is a little un-focused. The first sentence is about child-bearing; the second sentence is about reasons for the population decline of the former Soviet Union, (which is no longer true); and the remainder, starting with "... governments can influence ..." should be moved to the section "National efforts to reduce population decline". I propose to replace this section with a new section that covers the single topic of changing trends in population growth. You can find the draft at (link deleted) (talk) 18:53, 15 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Bfsplk ( talk • contribs)
The new section has been read by about 30 people and having seen no negative comments, I plan to move the draft of the new section to main space and replace the existing section. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
For this section I propose changing the title to "Long term future trends" and adding charts and numbers to show what the UN and others are saying about the future. You can find the draft here: (link deleted) Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:45, 13 January 2020 (UTC) Joe Bfsplk
Following the advice of Mikael Haggstrom I will move most of the draft into the main article "Projections of population growth". For this article I will add one table of growth rates from the UN. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 19:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
This section makes some valid points but the discussion should be expanded to describe other policy options that are now being examined in the literature. So, I propose to split out an article, to become this section's main article, called "National efforts to confront declining populations". You will find the draft here: (link deleted) If this draft is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (National efforts ...) and complete the split. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
The draft has been available for about two weeks and read by a few people, so having seen no negative comments, I plan to move it to main space and replace the existing section with a summary of it. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:55, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
On Aug 21 Slashme chose to re-direct the main article “Natl efforts to confront pop decline” to a section of “Sub replacement fertility” /info/en/?search=Sub-replacement_fertility#Attempts_to_increase_the_fertility_rate that discusses efforts in Romania to increase that country’s TFR. This is inappropriate for two reasons: 1) according to Wikipedia standards, /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Redirect#Redirects_that_replace_previous_articles a major change like this should first be discussed on the Talk page, and 2) a national effort to increase TFR, a.k.a. Natalism, is just one of the options discussed in the original article. Suggesting that increasing TFR is the only way for nations to confront pop decline is simplistic at best.
In the main article “Natl efforts to confront pop decline” there is a discussion of Natalism. If Slashme wants to improve this discussion of Natalism, fine. Maybe he could add a link to the section on Romania’s campaign to increase TFR.
In any case I would simply ask him to reverse the re-direct and start a discussion here on how he would like to improve this article. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 17:29, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
To resolve this situation, I propose the following: 1. I will move “Natalism” to the top of the list of “Policies to increase the size of the workforce” 2. I will add a link to /info/en/?search=Sub-replacement_fertility#Attempts_to_increase_the_fertility_rate, to serve as an example of Natalism 3. I will expand the section to add some of the content in the old main article. The Population Decline article is averaging about 600 views per day, but this old main article was averaging only around two, so very few are bothering to click through to it. So, I will delete the “Main article” link. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:45, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
A draft of the proposed changes is here:(link deleted) Let me know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks to those who have reviewed this proposal. Having seen no negative comments, I will revise this section as shown. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 15:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I propose to merge the ideas in this section into the main body of this article. Both paragraphs in this section have something to offer, but previous editors have taken issue with both. My intention is to include the ideas here in such a way as to be acceptable to all. The draft of the changes I propose is here: (link deleted) The history of edits that produced the draft starts April 22, 2020. Let us know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 23:07, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
The edits proposed have been read by about 20 people and having seen no negative comments I plan to start editing the existing section as per the draft that you all have read. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
Soumya-8974 inserted a hat note (May 10) suggesting that this article include information about Population decline caused by COVID-19 pandemic. At this point this virus has claimed about 370,000 lives world-wide on a global population of about 7.8 billion. So far, then, this virus has caused a short-term population shock of about -0.005%. The “Causes” section lists disease as one cause of short-term shocks with an example of the Black Death. The Black Death claimed 75-200 million lives on a global population of maybe 500 million [ [3]] at that time.
We could add COVID-19 to the list, but I think that the article already has three good examples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Bfsplk ( talk • contribs) 16:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I would suggest an update of the lead.
According to the Wikipedia manual of style, “The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents.” The current version is mostly a statement of possible positive and negative impacts of population decline; but leaves out the long-term projections of population change and national efforts to confront the projected population decline, both of which are covered at length in the article. Plus, about half of the current lead is a list of pluses from population decline; the lead must be a summary.
The style manual also instructs that “…significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.” The term “Shrink and Prosper” does not appear in this article. Furthermore, the term is the title of chapter 13 of the book “Countdown” by Alan Weisman. I did not find the term in the body of that chapter, nor have I found any other reference or use of the term. It might be a nice expression of the possible positive effect of a declining population, but I don’t think it meets the Wikipedia criteria for an acceptable reference.
A draft of a revised lead is here. (link deleted). Let us know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 14:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
The draft has been available for about two weeks and read by about a dozen people, so having seen no negative comments, I will revise the lead as shown. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 18:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
I've removed the two countries listed with a high abortion rate because there's no quantification of a high abortion rate, no mention of abortion anywhere in the article and no consistency - Romania and Ukraine were considered high whereas Georgia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Spain and Estonia have higher or comparable rates both per woman and per live birth according to Eurostat. Ocram ( talk) 17:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
"contraception and abortion in the 20th and 21st centuries reduced the world's population by around 5.5 billion" the source for this is in Polish, help? Matthewmorrone1 ( talk) 23:25, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
An anonymous user deleted over 1,000 bytes worth of info yesterday (15/10/23) only providing the description “ Thank goodness for god”. I believe this is vandalism, if anyone could contact support to get this reverted id be great. Cheers. Ace Lad22 ( talk) 17:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
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In one paragraph, it says "The effects of a declining population are bad for an economy" but in the next it says "The average standard of living...will tend to rise as the amount of land and resources per person will be higher. The period immediately after the Black Death, for instance, was one of great prosperity, as many had inheritances from many different family members." So which is it? Or is it controversial, hence the two viewpoints? In any case, it is very confusing as it is written. ErikHaugen 19:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
it might be interesting to include late 16th century Mexico, where spanish overlords grabbed most of the land formerly inhabited by disease victims, which was to the detriment of the remaining native population.
This article is full of speculation and irrelevant correlation. For example, the "economic growth" experienced in the mid 2000's was a result of an economic bubble which has since collapsed (making several points made in this section irrelevant). Declining population has a myriad of negative effects, which arguably more severe than the benefits. This section is slanted and should be removed until everything can be cited by actual data. NPG is hardly an unbiased source for information either (as its stated goal is to encourage Negative Population Growth). Perhaps this sections "facts" can be backed up by data from national research organizations instead of ideologically aligned entities. Mrsdelaney ( talk) 02:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is incredibly poorly written and is all over the place. It repeats points and gives a barrage of facts without any apparent cohesion. It also loses focus of the effects of population decline by introducing many irrelevant statistics. It also seems fairly biased. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
173.52.103.97 (
talk)
16:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with the above comments. This section (Economic consequences) makes many valid points, but I would also say that it needs more structure, more references, and a more neutral perspective on the economic impact of population decline. Much of this section was written 10 years ago, and some of it is outdated. Plus, we now have Japan as an example of a country that is experiencing population decline and more recent research that can both shine some light on this subject. So, I plan to re-write this section to deal with these issues.
I propose the introductory sentence for this section to be: “The single best measure of economic success is growth in GDP per person, not total GDP(1). GDP/person is a rough proxy for average living standards, for individual prosperity(2). Whether population decline has a positive or negative impact on a country’s citizens generally depends on the rate of growth of per capita GDP relative to the rate of decline in the population.”
1. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2008/03/13/grossly-distorted-picture 2. https://ourworldindata.org/economic-growth
Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:27, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
This is one of the most important parts of this article. At this point the impact of pop decline is spread over three sections: • Underpopulation • Positive effects of a population decline • Economic consequences I propose to combine these into one section. The draft is at the link below. I have tried to retain everything in these three sections that is supported by citation; I’ve simply reorganized it all. The goal is to produce a neutral discussion of the positives and negatives of population decline. The edit history shows what I did, starting at Mar 26. Let me know what you think. (link removed) Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 02:02, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
The new section has been read by about 20 people and having seen no negative comments I plan to start editing the existing section as per the draft that you all have read. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
Support merger. These two articles are trying to treat the same subject. The Underpopulation article tends to bear a POV. Merging can help reconcile the very legitimate point made by erikhaugen above. Joan-of-arc 17:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Could use votes to save this article, thanks MapleTree 22:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The following user comment and content was removed from the article:
"==Material moved from overpopulation== someone had placed the following text in the overpopulation article. it was misleading in that article to emphasize the relatively small population declines compared to the large growth in other lesser developed countries. the material may be useful here:
Khatru2 02:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
From this specific paragraph, -- The population of former Soviet Republics, with the exception of Muslim majority nations and oil rich Azerbaijan, is falling due to health factors and low replacement. Much of Eastern Europe has lost population due to migration to Western Europe. In Eastern Europe and Russia, natality fell abruptly after the end of Socialism. -- I removed the Socialism at the end and replaced it with Communism. According to modern political science, Socialism is a system of economy. Many still confuse it with communism which is a combinaiton of a system of rule, oligarchy, and a system of economy, socialism. Casimiri 07:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
The mention of underpopulation states that it is not a term that is in opposition to overpopulation; this is incorrect. Underpopulation can be defined as a country which does not have a sufficient population to exploit (use) all the resources within a country to their full extent. There are arguments that countries with populations that are not skilled enough are underpopulated. The UK, for instance, it can be argued, MAY be underpopulated. Canada is certainly underpopulated. I would be interested to know if anyone could possibly argue anything different. bliz 18:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Nations may say they are underpopulated when they don't have the manpower to create an army large enough to defend themselves or beat their neighbors, but this is a question of relative population, not absolute population. Iran right now is claiming that it is underpopulated because it does not have an army big enough to threaten the west, yet they are over exploiting water and several other key resources as they are calling for more people. Thus, the idea of under population seems to be one of point of view rather than one of science. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. 74.77.123.229 ( talk) 04:16, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
the map is wrong, because germany suffers population decline and SA not.!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny-bollock-rotten ( talk • contribs) 12:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Article is a bit unbalanced at the moment, needs coverage of efforts to bring about population decline (NPG, population environment connection, etc.) Zodon ( talk) 20:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree. You can start by citing the benefits associated with a decrease in the population and mention methods to achieve it. Like better family planning, easier access to contraceptives. 2601:940:C000:46A0:798A:4DAE:8A2E:B54 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:24, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The culture of contraception, more than anything else, is what decreases fertilities. Contraceptive sex actively displaces reproductive sex because it hinders the development of taste for family life. People get the idea that sex need not have any result, so that puts sex in a vacuum and makes family life limited or non-existent. These facts need to be in article. I'm currently looking for hard info that relates contraception to decreased fertilities. I may add something later on. If not, anyone else may. 74.195.16.39 ( talk) 17:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
So, what is the truth about South Africa? Is the population increasing or decreasing? It is increasing thanks to immigration from neighbor nations like Mozambique and Zimbawe....or is it decreasing as a consequence of AIDS?-- 83.35.180.179 ( talk) 03:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Currently the table entry for the cause of decline in Russia is "more deaths than births". Seems a bit vague... Ordinary Person ( talk) 04:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The replacement rate is the rate necessary for parents to replace themselves in the population. It is not fertility greater than mortality. Thus, you can have replacement rate level fertility and have population growth if you have an unstable age distribution with few old and many young. This is the case for most countries that are in the middle of the demographic transition at the moment and have just achieved low fertility. You can also have population decline at replacement rate fertility if you have an unstable age distribution as a baby boom reaches the age of mortality. This is the case in the US right now. Most of the mentions of replacement rate in the article are really referring to fertility below the rate of mortality, or fertility less that what is required for zero population growth. It is not clear if these are also below the replacement rate of fertility. These are major misuses of demographic terminology. Someone should fix this. Avram Primack ( talk) 04:30, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
The decline of the Roman empire is often said to have been partly a result of low-fertility on the part of the patrician classes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.169.236 ( talk) 19:57, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Country | Year | Population | % natural decrease [1] | Main reason for decrease | % decline by 2050 [2] |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() |
2009 | 7,704,687 | 0.79 | declining births and life expectancy | 34.93 |
![]() |
2009 | 1,299,371 | 0.632 | declining births | 33.25 |
![]() |
2009 | 2,231,503 | 0.614 | declining births and life expectancy | 30.38 |
![]() |
2009 | 127,078,679 | 0.191 [1] | declining births | 26.13 |
![]() |
2009 | 45,700,395 | 0.632 | declining births and life expectancy | 26.07 |
![]() |
2009 | 141,927,297 | 0.177 | declining life expectancy | 21.67 |
![]() |
2009 | 3,555,179 | 0.279 | declining births and life expectancy | 21.37 |
![]() |
2009 | 2,005,692 | 0.113 | 20.28 | |
![]() |
2009 | 9,648,533 | 0.378 | declining births and life expectancy | 19.5 |
![]() |
2009 | 38,482,919 | 0.047 | declining births | 16.58 |
'Suggering this paragraph before Long term population decline' Understanding the Decline Europe’s population has declined drastically and rapidly over the last fifty years. There are various reason why, starting with the multiple financial situations of families or single mothers now face. Low income influences low fertility rate because raising children is expensive. As a result there is a decreasing in the size of families large to smaller ones in Europe. Another major influence on low fertility rates is change in some European economies, leaving families uncertain in their future financial situations and the decision one the correct time to have children. This regulates the size of families and in some cases couples decide to not have children all together. These changes in equilibrium does not go unnoticed, the fluctuation in the European population has cause its damage, and will continue to if changes does not take place immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebony SHUwrite ( talk • contribs) 17:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
References
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I propose the following inclusion:
References
Are there any objections to including those statements in the introduction? EllenCT ( talk) 16:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
I can't take this any longer. I am unsubscribing from this and all related pages. I wish the rest of you the best of luck in dealing with this dumpster fire.
Related: The Most Important Thing Possible, Megalomaniacal point of view -- Guy Macon ( talk) 20:19, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
On the advice of Makael Haggstrom, I propose that the section Economic consequences be split into a separate page called Economic consequences of population decline. The content of the current page is too large, and, as the comments above make clear, is in need of a re-write. A draft of the new article is here: /info/en/?search=Draft:Economic_consequences_of_population_decline. If this is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (Economic consequences) and complete the split. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 15:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
The new article has been read by about 25 people and having seen no negative comments (or in fact none at all), I have moved the draft of the new article to main space and have added a "Main article" link to it in the Economic consequences section. Next step is to summarize the existing Economic consequences section. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:25, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
This section is a little un-focused. The first sentence is about child-bearing; the second sentence is about reasons for the population decline of the former Soviet Union, (which is no longer true); and the remainder, starting with "... governments can influence ..." should be moved to the section "National efforts to reduce population decline". I propose to replace this section with a new section that covers the single topic of changing trends in population growth. You can find the draft at (link deleted) (talk) 18:53, 15 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Bfsplk ( talk • contribs)
The new section has been read by about 30 people and having seen no negative comments, I plan to move the draft of the new section to main space and replace the existing section. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:26, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
For this section I propose changing the title to "Long term future trends" and adding charts and numbers to show what the UN and others are saying about the future. You can find the draft here: (link deleted) Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:45, 13 January 2020 (UTC) Joe Bfsplk
Following the advice of Mikael Haggstrom I will move most of the draft into the main article "Projections of population growth". For this article I will add one table of growth rates from the UN. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 19:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
This section makes some valid points but the discussion should be expanded to describe other policy options that are now being examined in the literature. So, I propose to split out an article, to become this section's main article, called "National efforts to confront declining populations". You will find the draft here: (link deleted) If this draft is acceptable to everyone I will summarize the existing section (National efforts ...) and complete the split. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
The draft has been available for about two weeks and read by a few people, so having seen no negative comments, I plan to move it to main space and replace the existing section with a summary of it. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:55, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
On Aug 21 Slashme chose to re-direct the main article “Natl efforts to confront pop decline” to a section of “Sub replacement fertility” /info/en/?search=Sub-replacement_fertility#Attempts_to_increase_the_fertility_rate that discusses efforts in Romania to increase that country’s TFR. This is inappropriate for two reasons: 1) according to Wikipedia standards, /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Redirect#Redirects_that_replace_previous_articles a major change like this should first be discussed on the Talk page, and 2) a national effort to increase TFR, a.k.a. Natalism, is just one of the options discussed in the original article. Suggesting that increasing TFR is the only way for nations to confront pop decline is simplistic at best.
In the main article “Natl efforts to confront pop decline” there is a discussion of Natalism. If Slashme wants to improve this discussion of Natalism, fine. Maybe he could add a link to the section on Romania’s campaign to increase TFR.
In any case I would simply ask him to reverse the re-direct and start a discussion here on how he would like to improve this article. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 17:29, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
To resolve this situation, I propose the following: 1. I will move “Natalism” to the top of the list of “Policies to increase the size of the workforce” 2. I will add a link to /info/en/?search=Sub-replacement_fertility#Attempts_to_increase_the_fertility_rate, to serve as an example of Natalism 3. I will expand the section to add some of the content in the old main article. The Population Decline article is averaging about 600 views per day, but this old main article was averaging only around two, so very few are bothering to click through to it. So, I will delete the “Main article” link. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 20:45, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
A draft of the proposed changes is here:(link deleted) Let me know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 16:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Thanks to those who have reviewed this proposal. Having seen no negative comments, I will revise this section as shown. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 15:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I propose to merge the ideas in this section into the main body of this article. Both paragraphs in this section have something to offer, but previous editors have taken issue with both. My intention is to include the ideas here in such a way as to be acceptable to all. The draft of the changes I propose is here: (link deleted) The history of edits that produced the draft starts April 22, 2020. Let us know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 23:07, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
The edits proposed have been read by about 20 people and having seen no negative comments I plan to start editing the existing section as per the draft that you all have read. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 21:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
Soumya-8974 inserted a hat note (May 10) suggesting that this article include information about Population decline caused by COVID-19 pandemic. At this point this virus has claimed about 370,000 lives world-wide on a global population of about 7.8 billion. So far, then, this virus has caused a short-term population shock of about -0.005%. The “Causes” section lists disease as one cause of short-term shocks with an example of the Black Death. The Black Death claimed 75-200 million lives on a global population of maybe 500 million [ [3]] at that time.
We could add COVID-19 to the list, but I think that the article already has three good examples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Bfsplk ( talk • contribs) 16:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I would suggest an update of the lead.
According to the Wikipedia manual of style, “The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents.” The current version is mostly a statement of possible positive and negative impacts of population decline; but leaves out the long-term projections of population change and national efforts to confront the projected population decline, both of which are covered at length in the article. Plus, about half of the current lead is a list of pluses from population decline; the lead must be a summary.
The style manual also instructs that “…significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.” The term “Shrink and Prosper” does not appear in this article. Furthermore, the term is the title of chapter 13 of the book “Countdown” by Alan Weisman. I did not find the term in the body of that chapter, nor have I found any other reference or use of the term. It might be a nice expression of the possible positive effect of a declining population, but I don’t think it meets the Wikipedia criteria for an acceptable reference.
A draft of a revised lead is here. (link deleted). Let us know what you think. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 14:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
The draft has been available for about two weeks and read by about a dozen people, so having seen no negative comments, I will revise the lead as shown. Joe Bfsplk ( talk) 18:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
I've removed the two countries listed with a high abortion rate because there's no quantification of a high abortion rate, no mention of abortion anywhere in the article and no consistency - Romania and Ukraine were considered high whereas Georgia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Spain and Estonia have higher or comparable rates both per woman and per live birth according to Eurostat. Ocram ( talk) 17:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
"contraception and abortion in the 20th and 21st centuries reduced the world's population by around 5.5 billion" the source for this is in Polish, help? Matthewmorrone1 ( talk) 23:25, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
An anonymous user deleted over 1,000 bytes worth of info yesterday (15/10/23) only providing the description “ Thank goodness for god”. I believe this is vandalism, if anyone could contact support to get this reverted id be great. Cheers. Ace Lad22 ( talk) 17:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)