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It would be a good idea if there could be an article called moral theology of John XXIII, which would be as detailed as the entry moral theology of John Paul I. ADM ( talk) 06:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Why is this spelled with a circumflex over the "Â"?
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On the top part of the article it says that "Angelo Roncalli was the third child of thirteen born in an Italian village to sharecroppers."
However, in the Vatican website that gives a biography of him, it says,"Pope John XXIII was born Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli at Sotto il Monte, Italy, in the Diocese of Bergamo on 25 November 1881. He was the fourth in a family of 14." [1]
He was not the third of thirteen children but instead the fourth of fourteen, according to the official website of the Vatican.
Dog on red wagon ( talk) 07:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)Dog on red wagon
I having trouble understanding why this is significant or what it proves. For him not to have made return travel arrangements in anticipation of being elected pope would have been highly unrealistic and presumptuous and would have been regarded as such if discovered. John Paul Parks ( talk) 14:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
I didn't see anything in this article about the call for nuclear disarmament in Pacem in Terris. Any reason for that? -- Nbauman ( talk) 22:31, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
In explaining the change (I added "and number"), I noted already that there are other problems in the numbering of Popes called John. Left incomplete (because I hit "enter" too soon) was this: Roncalli's use of XXIII affirmed that the previous claimant who called himself John XXIII was an antipope. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 ( talk) 14:05, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I came across this article today, wondering why it was chosen as Pope John XXIII's feast day by Rome. The only seemingly significant time the date's mentioned is as the start of Vatican II, although saints' days are usually the anniversaries of the death date, but can be of the date of consecration or relics being found. Clearly, I'm not a poohbah to question the liturgical calendar. However, I did notice that Pope John was formally consecrated on November 4, after a (to me) confusing section which began about Pius X dying on October 9, and October 11 being Roncalli's last day in Venice. The bit about nonparticipation in the conclave threw me for it, which might actually be about the then-ineligible candidate whom John elevated to cardinalship early in his term (reign?), i.e. the future Pope Paul VI. IMHO, quite simply, the article needs work, and I don't have the time, nor resources to do it, sadly enough. Jweaver28 ( talk) 13:40, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I won't change the above remark, but it would be more accurate to say "then-non-cardinal" instead of "then-ineligible"; that is Giovanni Battista Montini, who as you noted became Pope Paul VI (and I do recall there were at least rumors that John XXIII wanted Montini to succeed him and that Vatican Council II be continued, and these things did happen). Montini was eligible to be elected in 1958, but in practice chances of that were practically nil, because 1378 (now more than 630 years ago) is the latest time a non-cardinal was elected pope; that was Urban VI, who was eventually viewed as a disaster (and the Western Schism, not ended until 1417 when Martin V was elected, started). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 ( talk) 21:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
1. Thank you for the citation of the quote in the introduction for the "speech of the moon." I would like to clarify the date of the speech (October 11th, 1962), change "in the middle of the night" to "about 8 pm" [Jill Tyler-Bevilacqua in the recording at Veronica Scarisbrick, Vatican Radio, October 16, 2012], and include in the quote, "All the world is represented here tonight. It could even be said that even the moon hastens close tonight,..." [ Tony Rossi, "The Holy Journey of Two Popes: John XXIII and John Paul II" (March 25, 2014).].
2. Since this is in the introduction, I wondered if all this expansion would be better served further down in the article under "Calling the Council."
3. Perhaps something of his "ordinary-ness" could be highlighted in the introduction and the impromptu, informal way of addressing the people as characterized in the "speech to the moon" could be included.
4. I thought the story Rosminian Father John Charles-Roux's story of Roncalli's time in Paris as Apostolic nuncio in the late 1940's preparing a special meal for those opposed to the Catholic church there in Paris quite a bridge-builder and perhaps fitting for the introduction if not fleshed out in the "Nuncio" section below [in Veronica Scarisbrick's recording at Vatican News reference cited above].
5. The text that Tony Rossi uses in his blog at patheos.com of the pope's speech of the moon seems a bit akward ("It could even be said that even the moon hastens close tonight,..."), but I cannot verify the Italian. I have asked Tony to help with edits and missing references before April 27th, 2014.
6. Thank you again to all who are working on this article.
7. PS Is there any reason his image and title block are repeated at the beginning of the section, "Vatican II: The first session"? All this material is at the beginning of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jplvnv ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
If you look at the results of the following search:
you will see that some begin with "Pope Saint Name Number" and others begin with "Pope Name Number". In all cases I checked, "Pope Saint Name Number" is used at the top of the infobox.
Perhaps there should be some consistency? 68.165.77.30 ( talk) 01:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Greetings, Today I added the navbox template Catholic saints which includes Pope John XXIII article. I also added the portal for Christianity into the SA section. I did not include portals for Catholicism, Pope, or Saints because these are already included in the article's Navbox templates (in the below = parameter). This is per MOS/Layout, See_also_section which states that As a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes.. Regards, JoeHebda ( talk) 20:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Today, I added these two portals since they relate to the article being a Bio. and of a historical figure. JoeHebda ( talk) 16:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
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I find "Of the three cassocks prepared for whomever the new pope was, even the largest was not enough to fit his five-foot-two, 200-plus-pound frame, .." Check that out, because I recall reading the tailor saying that the new Pope John XXIII must have been given the medium size, and that the large size should have fit because it was made according to Roncalli's measurements. Furthermore, I read that an aide had picked up the wrong robes, and that the robes had to be split down the back, so that the first public appearance of John XXIII had to be front view only. Carlm0404 ( talk) 17:51, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I see "In John XXIII's first consistory on 15 December of that same year, Montini was created a cardinal and would become John XXIII's successor in 1963, taking the name of Paul VI.`
OK, and I will add that it was the first to go beyond the then-traditional limit of 70 cardinals. I also have read that another surprise was the soonness with which this consistory was announced. Carlm0404 ( talk) 18:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
(Annoyed): I don't know, but you see it was announced within 2 weeks of his being elected. I put in the remark about expansion beyond 70 members without calling it a surprise; his choice of papal name had been a surprise, too. Carlm0404 ( talk) 18:52, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I suggest adding extra protection to the page about John XXIII and Popes that came after him. I suggest this protection because members of extreme groups may attempt to edit the pages in order to portray John XXIII and his successors as "illegitimate popes". John XXIII and his successors were validly elected and are not illegitimate. Jjfun3695 ( talk) 20:50, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pope John XXIII article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
A news item involving Pope John XXIII was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 April 2014. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It would be a good idea if there could be an article called moral theology of John XXIII, which would be as detailed as the entry moral theology of John Paul I. ADM ( talk) 06:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Why is this spelled with a circumflex over the "Â"?
An image used in this article, File:Johnxxiii-color-tiara-sm.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 3 December 2011
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 08:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC) |
On the top part of the article it says that "Angelo Roncalli was the third child of thirteen born in an Italian village to sharecroppers."
However, in the Vatican website that gives a biography of him, it says,"Pope John XXIII was born Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli at Sotto il Monte, Italy, in the Diocese of Bergamo on 25 November 1881. He was the fourth in a family of 14." [1]
He was not the third of thirteen children but instead the fourth of fourteen, according to the official website of the Vatican.
Dog on red wagon ( talk) 07:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)Dog on red wagon
I having trouble understanding why this is significant or what it proves. For him not to have made return travel arrangements in anticipation of being elected pope would have been highly unrealistic and presumptuous and would have been regarded as such if discovered. John Paul Parks ( talk) 14:52, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
I didn't see anything in this article about the call for nuclear disarmament in Pacem in Terris. Any reason for that? -- Nbauman ( talk) 22:31, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
In explaining the change (I added "and number"), I noted already that there are other problems in the numbering of Popes called John. Left incomplete (because I hit "enter" too soon) was this: Roncalli's use of XXIII affirmed that the previous claimant who called himself John XXIII was an antipope. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 ( talk) 14:05, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
I came across this article today, wondering why it was chosen as Pope John XXIII's feast day by Rome. The only seemingly significant time the date's mentioned is as the start of Vatican II, although saints' days are usually the anniversaries of the death date, but can be of the date of consecration or relics being found. Clearly, I'm not a poohbah to question the liturgical calendar. However, I did notice that Pope John was formally consecrated on November 4, after a (to me) confusing section which began about Pius X dying on October 9, and October 11 being Roncalli's last day in Venice. The bit about nonparticipation in the conclave threw me for it, which might actually be about the then-ineligible candidate whom John elevated to cardinalship early in his term (reign?), i.e. the future Pope Paul VI. IMHO, quite simply, the article needs work, and I don't have the time, nor resources to do it, sadly enough. Jweaver28 ( talk) 13:40, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I won't change the above remark, but it would be more accurate to say "then-non-cardinal" instead of "then-ineligible"; that is Giovanni Battista Montini, who as you noted became Pope Paul VI (and I do recall there were at least rumors that John XXIII wanted Montini to succeed him and that Vatican Council II be continued, and these things did happen). Montini was eligible to be elected in 1958, but in practice chances of that were practically nil, because 1378 (now more than 630 years ago) is the latest time a non-cardinal was elected pope; that was Urban VI, who was eventually viewed as a disaster (and the Western Schism, not ended until 1417 when Martin V was elected, started). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 ( talk) 21:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
1. Thank you for the citation of the quote in the introduction for the "speech of the moon." I would like to clarify the date of the speech (October 11th, 1962), change "in the middle of the night" to "about 8 pm" [Jill Tyler-Bevilacqua in the recording at Veronica Scarisbrick, Vatican Radio, October 16, 2012], and include in the quote, "All the world is represented here tonight. It could even be said that even the moon hastens close tonight,..." [ Tony Rossi, "The Holy Journey of Two Popes: John XXIII and John Paul II" (March 25, 2014).].
2. Since this is in the introduction, I wondered if all this expansion would be better served further down in the article under "Calling the Council."
3. Perhaps something of his "ordinary-ness" could be highlighted in the introduction and the impromptu, informal way of addressing the people as characterized in the "speech to the moon" could be included.
4. I thought the story Rosminian Father John Charles-Roux's story of Roncalli's time in Paris as Apostolic nuncio in the late 1940's preparing a special meal for those opposed to the Catholic church there in Paris quite a bridge-builder and perhaps fitting for the introduction if not fleshed out in the "Nuncio" section below [in Veronica Scarisbrick's recording at Vatican News reference cited above].
5. The text that Tony Rossi uses in his blog at patheos.com of the pope's speech of the moon seems a bit akward ("It could even be said that even the moon hastens close tonight,..."), but I cannot verify the Italian. I have asked Tony to help with edits and missing references before April 27th, 2014.
6. Thank you again to all who are working on this article.
7. PS Is there any reason his image and title block are repeated at the beginning of the section, "Vatican II: The first session"? All this material is at the beginning of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jplvnv ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
If you look at the results of the following search:
you will see that some begin with "Pope Saint Name Number" and others begin with "Pope Name Number". In all cases I checked, "Pope Saint Name Number" is used at the top of the infobox.
Perhaps there should be some consistency? 68.165.77.30 ( talk) 01:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Greetings, Today I added the navbox template Catholic saints which includes Pope John XXIII article. I also added the portal for Christianity into the SA section. I did not include portals for Catholicism, Pope, or Saints because these are already included in the article's Navbox templates (in the below = parameter). This is per MOS/Layout, See_also_section which states that As a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes.. Regards, JoeHebda ( talk) 20:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Today, I added these two portals since they relate to the article being a Bio. and of a historical figure. JoeHebda ( talk) 16:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Pope John XXIII. Please take a moment to review
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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I find "Of the three cassocks prepared for whomever the new pope was, even the largest was not enough to fit his five-foot-two, 200-plus-pound frame, .." Check that out, because I recall reading the tailor saying that the new Pope John XXIII must have been given the medium size, and that the large size should have fit because it was made according to Roncalli's measurements. Furthermore, I read that an aide had picked up the wrong robes, and that the robes had to be split down the back, so that the first public appearance of John XXIII had to be front view only. Carlm0404 ( talk) 17:51, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I see "In John XXIII's first consistory on 15 December of that same year, Montini was created a cardinal and would become John XXIII's successor in 1963, taking the name of Paul VI.`
OK, and I will add that it was the first to go beyond the then-traditional limit of 70 cardinals. I also have read that another surprise was the soonness with which this consistory was announced. Carlm0404 ( talk) 18:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
(Annoyed): I don't know, but you see it was announced within 2 weeks of his being elected. I put in the remark about expansion beyond 70 members without calling it a surprise; his choice of papal name had been a surprise, too. Carlm0404 ( talk) 18:52, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I suggest adding extra protection to the page about John XXIII and Popes that came after him. I suggest this protection because members of extreme groups may attempt to edit the pages in order to portray John XXIII and his successors as "illegitimate popes". John XXIII and his successors were validly elected and are not illegitimate. Jjfun3695 ( talk) 20:50, 10 January 2022 (UTC)