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How is this word pronounced? Is the "p" silent, or not? RobertAustin ( talk) 16:42, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I have come up with a color for the pnictogens.
Pnictogens |
The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus that the proposed title is the common name or the most recognisable one (even to experts). Quite a few comments have noted that they feel recognisability is more important than consistency with related articles in this case and this has not been adequately refuted so as to outweigh the majority who do not feel it should be moved. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 ( talk) 06:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Nitrogen group →
Pnictogen – For consistency with
Chalcogen, so that this article also has the group's
trivial name as its title.
Double sharp (
talk) 07:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:06, 29 October 2012 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Nitrogen group → Pnictogen – The term "pnictogen" is widely used among workers in the field: Double sharp ( talk) 03:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
the terms "pnictogen" and "pnictide" appear in over 300 papers per year ( ref). The Red Book 2005 (from IUPAC) states that "If appropriate for a particular purpose, the various groups may be named from the first element in each, for example elements of the boron group (B, Al, Ga, In, Tl), elements of the titanium group (Ti, Zr, Hf, Rf), etc. The following collective names for like elements are IUPAC-approved: alkali metals (...), alkaline earth metals (...), pnictogens (N, P, As, Sb, Bi), chalcogens (O, S, Se, Te, Po), halogens (...), noble gases (...), lanthanoids (...), rare earth metals (Sc, Y and the lanthanoids) and actinoids (...).", indicating that naming by the first element (e.g. nitrogen group) is only for special situations and that pnictogens should be used for general purposes and IUPAC-approved. Using "pnictogens" instead of "nitrogen group" makes it easier to talk about a specific element from the group, which is necessary in the article: it can be simply referred to as a "pnictogen", rather than as a "nitrogen group element". However, if the article is titled "nitrogen group", then it looks strange and inconsistent if "pnictogen" is used very often. The boron and carbon groups don't have similar IUPAC-approved (or even commonly used) names, so this problem is unavoidable for them (the groups in the transition metals also cannot avoid this problem), but in case of the pnictogens/nitrogen group, there is a good, IUPAC-approved and commonly used (in the field, at least) term to use that makes it easier to write the article. (See WT:ELEM#Pnictogen vs. Nitrogen group.) Although the Nitrogen group page is viewed about eight and a half times more often than the Pnictogen page, this could easily be because this article is predominantly linked to through the Nitrogen group name (e.g. {{ Periodic tables footer}}. Of course, the redirect from Nitrogen group should be maintained, just as oxygen group redirects to chalcogen, and fluorine group redirects to halogen. Double sharp ( talk) 03:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
The article (currently) says: "The lethal does of arsenic for a typical adult is 200 grams, and can cause diarrhea, vomiting, colic, dehydration, and coma. Death from arsenic poisoning typically occurs within a day."
I don't know the exact lethal dose for arsenic, but it's for sure to be expressed in milligrams. Probably it should be 200 milligrams. I read an on-line paper (don't remember the source, I will post it when I cross it again sometime) about numerous gathered cases of arsenic poisoning. People have died from doses of 50mg to 70mg. I lost the source. The deadly dose is also dependant on which form of arsenic has been ingested or inhaled. The most common form of arsenic is arsenic(III)oxide (As₂O₃), also called white arsenic and is also the substance which is referred to when speaking about arsenic poison. Some other forms of arsenic is even more poisonous. It depends on how easy the substance is taken up in the body. But even elemental arsenic is probably much more poisonous than what is described above, because of the formation of arsine in contact with hydrochloric acid (the acid also present in our stomachs).
Arsenic also knows a gas form: arsine. The wiki article mentions 20ppm as deadly. But that's just trivial semi-information, I think. (20ppm for what amount of time is the question, isn't it?). It is formed when arsenic comes into contact with acids or certain other substances (like zinc for instance).
If I remember this right: the above mentioned paper also declared that the signs of arsenic poisoning in less severe cases can take up to 24 hours and take several days to lead to death or recovery. So I'm in doubt the mentioned info is correct on this too. I expect, by my (limited) knowledge, that it should say: "Symptoms of arsenic poisoning typically occur within a day" instead of what is mentioned now.
Anyway, I think what is written here about the toxicity of arsenic should be reviewed by someone with good knowledge about the substance. If people who sometimes need to work with arsenic think 200 grams is the deadly dose, they might start taking risks without realizing the actual danger of handling this substance. Or at least the given source should be rechecked to see if there isn't any misreading or misinterpretation. (Or if there is no fault in the mentioned book itself) - comment added by Aszazin ( talk) 13:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
As a comment on the above contribution in the section Requested move 2 above, perhaps it should be pointed out in all fairness to IUPAC that they do not "ban" chemical names: they have no authority to do so, they have no powers to enforce any such "ban", and they can impose no penalty on any author who uses a name that does not have their approval. They can, and do, "deprecate" the use of certain nomenclature, and I'm sure that this is what Double sharp had in mind. As for the pros and cons of Pnictogen vs. Nitrogen group elements, Group V/Group XV/Group 15, I have no preference. I first heard the words Pnictogen and Pnictides some 30 years ago, at work, after some years as a PhD synthetic organic chemist. Let's leave Pnictogen as the title of the article - it is, after all, simply an item of argot, and I see no harm in being a nomenclature maven - it does, after all, allow the cognoscenti to be 'superior' to the year-10 script kiddies :-) VapourGhost ( talk) 18:17, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Under 'Production' and then 'Nitrogen' an absurd claim is made that nitrogen may be produced by burning hydrocarbons or hydrogen in air. Nitrogen in diatomic form is already present in air if the temperatures are high enough some of the diatonic for may be lost as oxides of nitrogen, but burning hydrogen or pure hydrocarbons is not going to produce more diatonic hydrogen. How did this foolishness get slipped in? 174.69.4.149 ( talk) 22:16, 14 August 2016 (UTC) BGriffin
In our schooldays we used a term "Nicogen" for Group 15 (Nitrogen, Phosphorus, ...). Was the term "Nicogen" wrong? Was the term Nicogen meant some other group? I could not find any other Wikipedia page titled "Nicogen" as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:4426:B75E:498:4AED:91E9:B8FF ( talk) 12:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
The article suggests that lettuce and spinach are hosts for nitrogen fixing bacteria. I can find no support for this assertion! Here is a link to a comprehensive list of nitrogen fixing plants
http://www.homesteadandgardens.com/soil-blog/wp-content/uploads/list-of-nitrogen-fixing-plants.pdf
there is also a page on Wikipedia:
/info/en/?search=Category:Nitrogen-fixing_crops
These are largely in agreement but neither mentions lettuce or spinach.
Mikalobakus ( talk) 14:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Is electronegativity relevant in the article about elements most whose compounds have a strong covalent character? Who cares about formal oxidation states when we compare, say, nitrogen with arsenic? Incnis Mrsi ( talk) 15:23, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
The mention in the lead that the Americans used to call this group Va while the Europeans called it Group Vb leaves me curious: Did the Europeans have their own Group Va? Or is there just a Group V and the US went with Va for the annex, and the Euros went with Vb? or something else? 2603:8001:D3F0:87E0:0:0:0:10D0 ( talk) 06:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
"Nitrogen gas is completely non-toxic, but breathing in pure nitrogen gas is deadly"
Quite so, but it's deadly to breathe any pure element (or even any pure compound), other than oxygen. 87.75.117.183 ( talk) 00:48, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Was there any special thought behind the statement "Pnictide compounds tend to have exotic properties such as being diamagnetic and paramagnetic at room temperature, being transparent, or generating electricity when heated." or is it okay to remove the word "exotic"?
To me, there's nothing unusual about diamagnets and paramagnets. (Moreover, speaking of magnetic properties, there are also ferro- and antiferromagnetic compounds in this class which should perhaps be mentioned.) Also, if something is transparent, it's quite common and as for thermoelectricity, almost any conducting material shows Seebeck effect. Kvyb6672 ( talk) 10:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
How is this word pronounced? Is the "p" silent, or not? RobertAustin ( talk) 16:42, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I have come up with a color for the pnictogens.
Pnictogens |
The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus that the proposed title is the common name or the most recognisable one (even to experts). Quite a few comments have noted that they feel recognisability is more important than consistency with related articles in this case and this has not been adequately refuted so as to outweigh the majority who do not feel it should be moved. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 ( talk) 06:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Nitrogen group →
Pnictogen – For consistency with
Chalcogen, so that this article also has the group's
trivial name as its title.
Double sharp (
talk) 07:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:06, 29 October 2012 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Nitrogen group → Pnictogen – The term "pnictogen" is widely used among workers in the field: Double sharp ( talk) 03:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
the terms "pnictogen" and "pnictide" appear in over 300 papers per year ( ref). The Red Book 2005 (from IUPAC) states that "If appropriate for a particular purpose, the various groups may be named from the first element in each, for example elements of the boron group (B, Al, Ga, In, Tl), elements of the titanium group (Ti, Zr, Hf, Rf), etc. The following collective names for like elements are IUPAC-approved: alkali metals (...), alkaline earth metals (...), pnictogens (N, P, As, Sb, Bi), chalcogens (O, S, Se, Te, Po), halogens (...), noble gases (...), lanthanoids (...), rare earth metals (Sc, Y and the lanthanoids) and actinoids (...).", indicating that naming by the first element (e.g. nitrogen group) is only for special situations and that pnictogens should be used for general purposes and IUPAC-approved. Using "pnictogens" instead of "nitrogen group" makes it easier to talk about a specific element from the group, which is necessary in the article: it can be simply referred to as a "pnictogen", rather than as a "nitrogen group element". However, if the article is titled "nitrogen group", then it looks strange and inconsistent if "pnictogen" is used very often. The boron and carbon groups don't have similar IUPAC-approved (or even commonly used) names, so this problem is unavoidable for them (the groups in the transition metals also cannot avoid this problem), but in case of the pnictogens/nitrogen group, there is a good, IUPAC-approved and commonly used (in the field, at least) term to use that makes it easier to write the article. (See WT:ELEM#Pnictogen vs. Nitrogen group.) Although the Nitrogen group page is viewed about eight and a half times more often than the Pnictogen page, this could easily be because this article is predominantly linked to through the Nitrogen group name (e.g. {{ Periodic tables footer}}. Of course, the redirect from Nitrogen group should be maintained, just as oxygen group redirects to chalcogen, and fluorine group redirects to halogen. Double sharp ( talk) 03:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
The article (currently) says: "The lethal does of arsenic for a typical adult is 200 grams, and can cause diarrhea, vomiting, colic, dehydration, and coma. Death from arsenic poisoning typically occurs within a day."
I don't know the exact lethal dose for arsenic, but it's for sure to be expressed in milligrams. Probably it should be 200 milligrams. I read an on-line paper (don't remember the source, I will post it when I cross it again sometime) about numerous gathered cases of arsenic poisoning. People have died from doses of 50mg to 70mg. I lost the source. The deadly dose is also dependant on which form of arsenic has been ingested or inhaled. The most common form of arsenic is arsenic(III)oxide (As₂O₃), also called white arsenic and is also the substance which is referred to when speaking about arsenic poison. Some other forms of arsenic is even more poisonous. It depends on how easy the substance is taken up in the body. But even elemental arsenic is probably much more poisonous than what is described above, because of the formation of arsine in contact with hydrochloric acid (the acid also present in our stomachs).
Arsenic also knows a gas form: arsine. The wiki article mentions 20ppm as deadly. But that's just trivial semi-information, I think. (20ppm for what amount of time is the question, isn't it?). It is formed when arsenic comes into contact with acids or certain other substances (like zinc for instance).
If I remember this right: the above mentioned paper also declared that the signs of arsenic poisoning in less severe cases can take up to 24 hours and take several days to lead to death or recovery. So I'm in doubt the mentioned info is correct on this too. I expect, by my (limited) knowledge, that it should say: "Symptoms of arsenic poisoning typically occur within a day" instead of what is mentioned now.
Anyway, I think what is written here about the toxicity of arsenic should be reviewed by someone with good knowledge about the substance. If people who sometimes need to work with arsenic think 200 grams is the deadly dose, they might start taking risks without realizing the actual danger of handling this substance. Or at least the given source should be rechecked to see if there isn't any misreading or misinterpretation. (Or if there is no fault in the mentioned book itself) - comment added by Aszazin ( talk) 13:18, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
As a comment on the above contribution in the section Requested move 2 above, perhaps it should be pointed out in all fairness to IUPAC that they do not "ban" chemical names: they have no authority to do so, they have no powers to enforce any such "ban", and they can impose no penalty on any author who uses a name that does not have their approval. They can, and do, "deprecate" the use of certain nomenclature, and I'm sure that this is what Double sharp had in mind. As for the pros and cons of Pnictogen vs. Nitrogen group elements, Group V/Group XV/Group 15, I have no preference. I first heard the words Pnictogen and Pnictides some 30 years ago, at work, after some years as a PhD synthetic organic chemist. Let's leave Pnictogen as the title of the article - it is, after all, simply an item of argot, and I see no harm in being a nomenclature maven - it does, after all, allow the cognoscenti to be 'superior' to the year-10 script kiddies :-) VapourGhost ( talk) 18:17, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Under 'Production' and then 'Nitrogen' an absurd claim is made that nitrogen may be produced by burning hydrocarbons or hydrogen in air. Nitrogen in diatomic form is already present in air if the temperatures are high enough some of the diatonic for may be lost as oxides of nitrogen, but burning hydrogen or pure hydrocarbons is not going to produce more diatonic hydrogen. How did this foolishness get slipped in? 174.69.4.149 ( talk) 22:16, 14 August 2016 (UTC) BGriffin
In our schooldays we used a term "Nicogen" for Group 15 (Nitrogen, Phosphorus, ...). Was the term "Nicogen" wrong? Was the term Nicogen meant some other group? I could not find any other Wikipedia page titled "Nicogen" as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:4426:B75E:498:4AED:91E9:B8FF ( talk) 12:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
The article suggests that lettuce and spinach are hosts for nitrogen fixing bacteria. I can find no support for this assertion! Here is a link to a comprehensive list of nitrogen fixing plants
http://www.homesteadandgardens.com/soil-blog/wp-content/uploads/list-of-nitrogen-fixing-plants.pdf
there is also a page on Wikipedia:
/info/en/?search=Category:Nitrogen-fixing_crops
These are largely in agreement but neither mentions lettuce or spinach.
Mikalobakus ( talk) 14:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Is electronegativity relevant in the article about elements most whose compounds have a strong covalent character? Who cares about formal oxidation states when we compare, say, nitrogen with arsenic? Incnis Mrsi ( talk) 15:23, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
The mention in the lead that the Americans used to call this group Va while the Europeans called it Group Vb leaves me curious: Did the Europeans have their own Group Va? Or is there just a Group V and the US went with Va for the annex, and the Euros went with Vb? or something else? 2603:8001:D3F0:87E0:0:0:0:10D0 ( talk) 06:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
"Nitrogen gas is completely non-toxic, but breathing in pure nitrogen gas is deadly"
Quite so, but it's deadly to breathe any pure element (or even any pure compound), other than oxygen. 87.75.117.183 ( talk) 00:48, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Was there any special thought behind the statement "Pnictide compounds tend to have exotic properties such as being diamagnetic and paramagnetic at room temperature, being transparent, or generating electricity when heated." or is it okay to remove the word "exotic"?
To me, there's nothing unusual about diamagnets and paramagnets. (Moreover, speaking of magnetic properties, there are also ferro- and antiferromagnetic compounds in this class which should perhaps be mentioned.) Also, if something is transparent, it's quite common and as for thermoelectricity, almost any conducting material shows Seebeck effect. Kvyb6672 ( talk) 10:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)