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Since the article has no sources, it might be of interest to try to reformulate the origins of the regional distinctiveness of the American south. Rachel Klein, in Unification of a Slave State: The Rise of the Planter Class in the South Carolina Backcountry, 1760-1808 makes the point that the planter class was precapitalist (because slavery was an extension of household economy and because slavery inhibited the development of a labor market) and southern regional distinctiveness should be understood in the context of the developing capitalist relationships in the North. See Klein, Rachel N (2012). Unification of a Slave State The Rise of the Planter Class in the South Carolina Backcountry, 1760-1808. ISBN 9781469601328. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vexations ( talk • contribs) 00:04, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
This article was formerly a redirect made into a content page on June 21, 2018. A few interested parties have noted its developmental shortcomings, but remain cognizant of the fact this article is less than 24 hours old. I mean to contribute in-line citations and more content over the coming weeks, and further wish to "globalize" the subect by including the planters of Brazil, Canada/New France, Cuba, New Spain, Saint-Domingue, etc. All willing editors are encouraged to help develop this monumental subject! – Conservatrix ( talk) 05:45, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I would caution editors that this article is not about slavery and not about wars, but is about the planters and their relationship to those topics. New sections must hold the planters as the focus and should instead offer links to pages where the specifics of slavery and war are discussed. Please refrain from moral crusading, cited or otherwise, and be mindful that casual readers visiting this page are coming to learn about a lost culture. – Conservatrix ( talk) 20:03, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Two sources on the Planter class in the Dutch colonies are:
I'm not aware of any english translations of these, but there is a contemporary report that has been published in English:
Vexations ( talk) 17:08, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
More suggestions
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)Vexations ( talk) 22:51, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
The Occidental Observer, a white nationalist publication is the source of an unattributed image that is captioned "Blacks murdering white civilians during the Haitian Revolution" and titled. The link provided on the page /info/en/?search=Planter_class#/media/File:Haitian_Revolution_-_Blacks_murdering_white_civilians.gif does not work BTW. I'm unable to find a reliable source for the image.
A much more suitable image with a very similar subject matter that can be attributed correctly is Incendie de la Plaine du Cap. - Massacre des Blancs par les Noirs. FRANCE MILITAIRE. - Martinet del. - Masson Sculp - 33.jpg. It was published in Hugo, Abel (1833). France militaire: histoire des armées françaises de terre et de mer, de 1792 à 1833, tome 1. Paris: Delloye., engraved by Antoine Masson after a drawing by Pierre Martinet) and has a contemporary caption in the image itself: "Incendie de la Plaine du Cap. Massacre des Blancs par les Noirs", which I'd translate as "Burning of Plaine du Cap. Massacre of whites by blacks." A scholarly source that provides some context on the engraving is https://journals.openedition.org/orda/665. Vexations ( talk) 20:27, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
This page is obviously under development, but other editors are not mindreaders and I felt a clarification of vision was warranted. These are my opinions and are of course not definite. The History section was published with the Rise of Abolitionism subsection established first so that knowledgeable editors interested in the popular fall of this class may contribute information and perfect my framework. I mean to divide the History section into five parts: 1. Lead 2. Emergence of the Planter 3. Apotheosis 4. Rise of Abolitionism 5. American Civil War/End of An Era. The page itself could be arranged: 1. History 2. Women in Planter society 3. Economy 4. Architecture. All subject to change.
I will not be tackling the economics section whatsoever. An ambitious party is welcome to pursue its establishment, preferably giving attention to global trade, household economics and farm management.
The proposed Women in Planter society section has an alternative in the Southern belle article, but this page focuses on the American experience. My contribution to this section will be brief (maybe three healthy paragraphs), and will cover the matriarchal role of the planter's wife and social expectations placed both on her and her daughters.
Finally, yes, I am aware that my citations are lagging pitifully behind section development. Please feel welcome to remove or discuss anything that may raise concern.
Conservatrix ( talk) 22:22, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I have typed and pulled together five paragraphs destined for a climax/closing section on planters in the American Civil War. The question is, "how do we discuss the war whilst not focusing on the warfare?" My conclusion was that we mention its impact on planter society, its impact on world trade, and the planter characters of the battlefield. So, we discuss the glorious moments of planter commanders, summarize the inbetween, ideology, contribute a few obscure characters, portraits of leaders in the margins, etc. More or less telling the story from the perspective of an Atlanta salon and less so that of a tactician. What are your thoughts, Vexations? – Conservatrix ( talk) 02:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
glorious moments of planter commanders, I don't think that's necessary to repeat claims about the Lost Cause of the Confederacy. Vexations ( talk) 11:56, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
The origins of the planter class are to be found in the Plantations of Ireland in the 16th century. Leutha ( talk) 06:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
The act of planting has a causal dependence upon the enslavement of other human beings. I propose that this page renmamed something more appropriate, such as "agrarian enslaver class" rather than the benign "planter" description Louis Waweru Talk 03:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. General consensus is that the article should not be moved as proposed, and if anything the article itself (or at least the lead) should be changed, not the title. ( closed by non-admin page mover) SkyWarrior 19:33, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Planter class → Southern slaveholders – "Planter class" seems like a MOS:EUPHEMISM which should be avoided similar to how we don't have articles labeled "pro-life" or "pro-choice". It didn't take much for me to find WP:RS which use the term "Southern slaveholders" ( [1] [2]). Therefore, I can imagine there are more out there which use the term in lieu of "planter class" or "Southern aristocracy" (both of which don't adequately describe this group which was defined by its ownership of other people). – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 16:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Planter class article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | On 26 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Southern slaveholders. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Since the article has no sources, it might be of interest to try to reformulate the origins of the regional distinctiveness of the American south. Rachel Klein, in Unification of a Slave State: The Rise of the Planter Class in the South Carolina Backcountry, 1760-1808 makes the point that the planter class was precapitalist (because slavery was an extension of household economy and because slavery inhibited the development of a labor market) and southern regional distinctiveness should be understood in the context of the developing capitalist relationships in the North. See Klein, Rachel N (2012). Unification of a Slave State The Rise of the Planter Class in the South Carolina Backcountry, 1760-1808. ISBN 9781469601328. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vexations ( talk • contribs) 00:04, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
This article was formerly a redirect made into a content page on June 21, 2018. A few interested parties have noted its developmental shortcomings, but remain cognizant of the fact this article is less than 24 hours old. I mean to contribute in-line citations and more content over the coming weeks, and further wish to "globalize" the subect by including the planters of Brazil, Canada/New France, Cuba, New Spain, Saint-Domingue, etc. All willing editors are encouraged to help develop this monumental subject! – Conservatrix ( talk) 05:45, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I would caution editors that this article is not about slavery and not about wars, but is about the planters and their relationship to those topics. New sections must hold the planters as the focus and should instead offer links to pages where the specifics of slavery and war are discussed. Please refrain from moral crusading, cited or otherwise, and be mindful that casual readers visiting this page are coming to learn about a lost culture. – Conservatrix ( talk) 20:03, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Two sources on the Planter class in the Dutch colonies are:
I'm not aware of any english translations of these, but there is a contemporary report that has been published in English:
Vexations ( talk) 17:08, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
More suggestions
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)Vexations ( talk) 22:51, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
The Occidental Observer, a white nationalist publication is the source of an unattributed image that is captioned "Blacks murdering white civilians during the Haitian Revolution" and titled. The link provided on the page /info/en/?search=Planter_class#/media/File:Haitian_Revolution_-_Blacks_murdering_white_civilians.gif does not work BTW. I'm unable to find a reliable source for the image.
A much more suitable image with a very similar subject matter that can be attributed correctly is Incendie de la Plaine du Cap. - Massacre des Blancs par les Noirs. FRANCE MILITAIRE. - Martinet del. - Masson Sculp - 33.jpg. It was published in Hugo, Abel (1833). France militaire: histoire des armées françaises de terre et de mer, de 1792 à 1833, tome 1. Paris: Delloye., engraved by Antoine Masson after a drawing by Pierre Martinet) and has a contemporary caption in the image itself: "Incendie de la Plaine du Cap. Massacre des Blancs par les Noirs", which I'd translate as "Burning of Plaine du Cap. Massacre of whites by blacks." A scholarly source that provides some context on the engraving is https://journals.openedition.org/orda/665. Vexations ( talk) 20:27, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
This page is obviously under development, but other editors are not mindreaders and I felt a clarification of vision was warranted. These are my opinions and are of course not definite. The History section was published with the Rise of Abolitionism subsection established first so that knowledgeable editors interested in the popular fall of this class may contribute information and perfect my framework. I mean to divide the History section into five parts: 1. Lead 2. Emergence of the Planter 3. Apotheosis 4. Rise of Abolitionism 5. American Civil War/End of An Era. The page itself could be arranged: 1. History 2. Women in Planter society 3. Economy 4. Architecture. All subject to change.
I will not be tackling the economics section whatsoever. An ambitious party is welcome to pursue its establishment, preferably giving attention to global trade, household economics and farm management.
The proposed Women in Planter society section has an alternative in the Southern belle article, but this page focuses on the American experience. My contribution to this section will be brief (maybe three healthy paragraphs), and will cover the matriarchal role of the planter's wife and social expectations placed both on her and her daughters.
Finally, yes, I am aware that my citations are lagging pitifully behind section development. Please feel welcome to remove or discuss anything that may raise concern.
Conservatrix ( talk) 22:22, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I have typed and pulled together five paragraphs destined for a climax/closing section on planters in the American Civil War. The question is, "how do we discuss the war whilst not focusing on the warfare?" My conclusion was that we mention its impact on planter society, its impact on world trade, and the planter characters of the battlefield. So, we discuss the glorious moments of planter commanders, summarize the inbetween, ideology, contribute a few obscure characters, portraits of leaders in the margins, etc. More or less telling the story from the perspective of an Atlanta salon and less so that of a tactician. What are your thoughts, Vexations? – Conservatrix ( talk) 02:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
glorious moments of planter commanders, I don't think that's necessary to repeat claims about the Lost Cause of the Confederacy. Vexations ( talk) 11:56, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
The origins of the planter class are to be found in the Plantations of Ireland in the 16th century. Leutha ( talk) 06:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
The act of planting has a causal dependence upon the enslavement of other human beings. I propose that this page renmamed something more appropriate, such as "agrarian enslaver class" rather than the benign "planter" description Louis Waweru Talk 03:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. General consensus is that the article should not be moved as proposed, and if anything the article itself (or at least the lead) should be changed, not the title. ( closed by non-admin page mover) SkyWarrior 19:33, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Planter class → Southern slaveholders – "Planter class" seems like a MOS:EUPHEMISM which should be avoided similar to how we don't have articles labeled "pro-life" or "pro-choice". It didn't take much for me to find WP:RS which use the term "Southern slaveholders" ( [1] [2]). Therefore, I can imagine there are more out there which use the term in lieu of "planter class" or "Southern aristocracy" (both of which don't adequately describe this group which was defined by its ownership of other people). – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 16:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)