(content put back on talk page; no reason to archive.)
This feels like it's some kind of advert for this Plant-based Nutrition mob, masquerading as a real topic. Since just about every diet is plant-based to some extent, I say just merge it into vegetarianism if there is any real content to be had here. FlagSteward 10:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing that this page be converted into a "disambiguation" page with the following links:
-- Thomas.vandenbroeck ( talk) 19:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
This proposal has been up for a week without any objection or any additional suggestions. I will be making these updates today. Thanks.
--
Thomas.vandenbroeck (
talk)
16:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
I have no idea if this will stay up as a disambiguation page. I am neutral on the idea.- Sinneed 16:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
It would be useful to rethink this stance on rating the page. Plant Based Diet is becoming an accepted term to group all types of diets that are primarily based on plants. I have recently seen
Harvard Public School of Health (see point 3),
articles, and
informational sites use the term. In addition, the term is used in
researchand
here as well as common everyday usage by the
media.
Jmurry (
talk)
14:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Just came across another use of the term in a UN report -
Assessing the Environmental Impacts of Consumption and production (see pages 79 & 80).
Jmurry (
talk)
00:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
This DAB page should be converted to an article since none of the linking topics have the words "Plant-Based" in them. It is fair to say that the definition of "Plant-Based" is open to debate - which is what can happen in a WP page called "Plant-based diet." As a disambiguation page, however, there is no room to add references such as this article from Kaiser Permanente:
The article offers a very recent discussion over the definition of the term (including the fact there are variations) and a useful bibliography. The best place for the reference is in an article called "Plant-Based Diet." - Classicfilms ( talk) 17:48, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I forgot about that guideline. Remember though, it's a guideline, not a strict rule (the policies are our governing rules, guidelines define our best practices). A small introduction with a citation shouldn't be a problem, but if you have a larger article in mind with multiple references, it's best to adhere to the guideline.
OK, here's what I suggest:
I believe there would be no controversy generated by that process. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 00:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
It will be awhile before I can build an article of quality. Therefore, I would like to create a space here for editors to add articles on the topic of Plant-Based Diets. I will begin by adding articles and add more over time. Other editors are of course welcome to begin writing the article as well - I check in periodically so you can always leave a note on my talk page. All articles should adhere to: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and articles in peer reviewed scientific journals are of particular interest. Hard copy is of course always welcome. I would also like to see sources that can offer a history of the term "Plant-Based" as well as other terms such as "Plant - Strong" and "Plant - Perfect."
- Classicfilms ( talk) 22:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
I think this article by Kaiser offers a model for how to think about the way in which the term is used.
There are literally thousands of links in GoogleScholar for the term "plant-based." So there are many ways to go about it. I'm not looking to supplant the vegetarian or vegan articles - both are excellent articles. "Plant-Based" is a term that is out there and thus fair game for a Wikipedia article. But again in the future, not in the present. That's it for today. - Classicfilms ( talk) 22:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Not sure why this has been removed. Various individuals/groups follow a plant-based diet but are not vegan or vegetarian. These individuals still consume animal products, including meat, once or twice per week. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 10:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
ClassicFilms, if you want to include the doctors' names, it's not a problem, but it shouldn't be done by linking as though their diets have articles. Better to include their bios as a See also. Sarah (talk) 22:33, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
The vegetarianism article specifically discusses semi-vegetarians - "Individuals sometimes label themselves "vegetarian" while practicing a semi-vegetarian diet,[10][29][30] as some dictionary definitions describe vegetarianism as sometimes including the consumption of fish, or only include mammalian flesh as part of their definition of meat,[9][31] while other definitions exclude fish and all animal flesh.[12] In other cases, individuals may describe themselves as "flexitarian".[29][32] These diets may be followed by those who reduce animal flesh consumed as a way of transitioning to a complete vegetarian diet or for health, ethical, environmental, or other reasons. Semi-vegetarian diets include:....". This article overlaps that one, completely. BD2412 will you please reconsider? Thx. Jytdog ( talk) 12:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
From my understanding, plant-based diet is Meat-free, but that does not in any words mean it's Vegan. Am I right on this? I would like to learn more about that here. Thanks! -- huggi - never stop exploring ( talk) 09:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
...or even anywhere in the article: "As of 1999 it was estimated that four billion people live on a plant-based diet because of the absence of resources necessary to support a meat-based one.[4]" So Wikipedia now claims that the vast majority of the Earth's population at the time would have stopped their plant-based diet and switched to a meat-based one if they just had more money? Isn't the source itself crystal-balling (WP:CRYSTAL)? This is one which doesn't seem to me to belong in the article at all, let alone in the lead. Randy Kryn 3:02, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Should this article remain a WP:MOSDAB page which prohibits references? If we transition it to MOS:LIST, then we can add references that will aid the reader in understanding the use of the term. - Classicfilms ( talk) 16:12, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
This entire discussion seems to hinge on a faulty premise. A disambiguation page is a page for articles with matching titles (i.e. Mercury, Mercury and Mercury). It is not a list of concepts that are related. Note that, per WP:DABMENTION, we must police and remove any link on this page for which it can not be demonstrated that the subject is referred to by the phrase "Plant-based diet". For example, nowhere in Lacto vegetarianism does it say that "Lacto vegetarianism" is also known as "plant-based diet". Disambiguation page guidelines are very strict about that. If discussion of the subject requires variance from those guidelines, then it is not a disambiguation page, period. bd2412 T 17:31, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
There are some common sense tests that I like to use when examining potential dabconcept situations. One of these is what I call the "I'm an expert" test. It goes like this: could a person reasonably represent themselves as an expert in [term], without having to be an expert in multiple fields of knowledge (i.e. without having degrees from different departments in the typical university)? Although there are many species of tuna that are called "bluefin tuna" person could be an expert in "bluefin tuna" without needing to specify a particular species. Compare that to a person claiming to be an expert on "Mercury", or a "battery" expert. The expert on "Mercury" would need to have both Roman mythology and astronomy in his knowledge base. The expert on "battery" would need both chemical engineering and law, as well as some military history and (depending how significant the subtopic was considered) baseball, too.
At some point the sources got confused – and I believe Wikipedia contributed to that confusion – and started referring to non-vegan diets as plant-based too. It is now a PR term that is used loosely. It can mean a vegan diet (no animal sources); a vegetarian diet (no animal sources that require killing the animal – so eggs and dairy are okay, but not meat); or a semi-vegetarian diet (meat is included but not much). There is the added advice to minimize junk, but that was always an implicit part of the vegan/vegetarian diet anyway.
Because of this confusion, it seemed sensible to leave it as a dab page and list all the diets that plant-based can refer to. But a redirect to one of the other articles would work too. Sarah (talk) 22:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Classicfilms has strongly recommended the use of one source, this 2013 article by Philip Tuso of Kaiser Permanente, which defines (or redefines) plant-based diet as one allowing some meat, eggs and dairy.
Tuso is on the board of directors of the Plantrician Project, which has laudable health goals. He writes in the 2013 article: "Physicians should advocate that it is time to get away from terms like vegan and vegetarian and start talking about eating healthy, whole, plant-based foods (primarily fruits and vegetables) and minimizing consumption of meat, eggs, and dairy products. Physicians should be informed about these concepts so they can teach them to staff and patients."
The mistake Classicfilms has made is in trying to have Wikipedia lead from the front in this attempt to change the language. The result is that we have caused other sources to become confused, and their confusion is reflected back into Wikipedia, when editors not familiar with these issues rely on the confused sources. So plant-based diet now refers to a vegan diet, a vegetarian diet, and a semi-vegetarian diet (which can mean anything). That is why it makes most sense to stick with the dab page until uninvolved, authoritative sources have decided how to use the term. Sarah (talk) 20:28, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
If the primary meaning of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is capable of being described in an article, and a substantial portion of the links asserted to be ambiguous are instances or examples of that concept or type, then the page located at that title should be an article describing it, and not a disambiguation page.
Plant-based diet" has been used to refer to:
Human diet
Other
other potential articles . . .
That's all this entire page would be. All a DAB page does is list the name of the article and maybe an extremely brief few word summary of what the term means from the article. All the rest of the information goes to the individual articles instead and there's no need for any controversy at this time unless plant-based diet very concretely becomes it's own individual term (which it may be shown in sources someday) as opposed to a general catch all search term. What I've described is what is being suggested by making it a disambiguation page rather than an article linking to a bunch of others with more text and references. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 07:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Plant-based diet has been used to refer to:
The best way to proceed is to list here completely uninvolved, authoritative sources (none of the celebrity doctors) and how they use the term. People should add here what they find:
adding some more reviews from the biomedical literature and statements from major medical/scientific organizations Jytdog ( talk) 02:09, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Inquiry about adding a statement of the known health benefits of plant-based diets? While there are numerous sources pointing to the benefit of plant-based diets for overall health, an isolated example would include the recent 'talk' I entered on myocardial infarction. I feel strongly, as many medical professional do, that these evidence-based conclusions should be as well-known to the public as they are to clinically updated health professionals.
A 20-year nutritional study done by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., a former internationally known surgeon, researcher and clinician at the Cleveland Clinic, explains in his book how myocardial infarction can be prevented, reversed, and even abolished. Dr. Esselstyn argues that conventional cardiology has failed patients by developing treatments that focus only on the symptoms of heart disease, not the cause. Dr. Esselstyn convincingly argues and produces convincing results that a plant-based, oil-free diet can not only prevent and stop the progression of heart disease, but also reverse its effects. http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1.pdf
As stated in the National Center for Biotechnology Information “Nutritional Update for Physicians” (which includes its own comprehensive list of citations), “Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition concludes, “…substantial evidence indicates that plant-based diets including whole grains as the main form of carbohydrate, unsaturated fats as the predominate form of dietary fat, an abundance of fruit and vegetables, and adequate n−3 fatty acids can play an important role in preventing CVD. Such diets—which have other health benefits, including the prevention of other chronic diseases—deserve more emphasis in dietary recommendations.” http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/544S.full Karyn Swaney ( talk) 17:57, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
What can be provided about health effects in animals? I know some factory farmed cows are force fed cow meat for some commercial benefit, but I'd suspect to their ultimate detriment. And can carnivorous animals subsist on a diet of plants in some circumstances? Pandeist ( talk) 18:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
I think for this article to make progress we have to mark a separation between people who end up on this diet by need (third-world countries), by happenstance (vegans), and by those striving for optimal health (whole food plant based folk).
I think this separation is necessary because we can't attribute the health benefits (if they exist) of the latter group automatically to the other two, and we can't say that the health risk/benefits of refined oils are a controversy among all people on a plant-based diet, etc.
They also have a separate history. Poor people eating plants is older than our species, large-scale veganism is a little recent, and the whole foods approach to disease prevention is only a "movement" (trend?) since the 1950s at the earliest.
I don't have an elaborate plan, but wanted to explain a little of what I'm trying. Comments and edits very much appreciated. Great floors ( talk) 12:58, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
My current text lacks citations, and, while I agree some should be added, I hope others can agree that there's nothing controversial there, and it's all backed up by the linked Wikipedia pages and the existing references in the article. Great floors ( talk) 13:19, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Can I use a Youtube video of Pritikin saying "I allow a little milk to make the diet more palatable" as a reference for the claim that Pritikin allows a little milk to make the diet more palatable?
I guess this escapes WP:MED because it's a matter of style and historical record rather than medical advice. Right? Great floors ( talk) 13:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
One issue I can see is what criteria to use. The people advocating this concept don't form a defined group. Should the DASH diet be discussed as a healthy plant-based diet? I've never seen it called such, so I'd say no. What about Joel Fuhrman? I don't know, I don't think he's contributed to the movement/trend/topic, but I can see how others would think he did. Hmm... We could use the criteria of "people who use the term 'whole food plant-based' to describe their work - plus the people they cite as inspiration"? Great floors ( talk) 13:48, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Anyone who's read up on this topic will recognise that what I'm describing is a coherent, documented topic that exists, but I can also see how an indepenedent observer with good knowledge of WP policies could justify deleting the whole thing (and I don't know if I'd have counter arguments). Should it be discussed in this article? or in vegan nutrition? or in its own whole food plant-based diets article? Great floors ( talk) 14:47, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
I think the article should have a section something like this:
I added it, but it got deleted without discussion. I hope someone finds it useful as a starting point for adding to WP. My efforts just get reverted without discussion (or a curt link to policies which are sometimes relevant, sometimes not). Great floors ( talk) 16:30, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
References
The sections below were removed from the article for discussion.
References
Not only are the references outdated (2008 and before), but the collective quality does not meet scientific consensus per WP:MEDSCI. Mainly, the proposed new text and sources come together as soapbox speculations remaining unconfirmed and still under study, such as this 2017 systematic review, PMID 28938794, which concludes: "Plant-based diets are associated with decreased total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol". We can state this remains a preliminary conclusion from ongoing clinical research, and further details are yet to be established. -- Zefr ( talk) 23:12, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
The phrasing "generally subsisting on a plant-based diet, but supplementing with meat when possible" would be more specific with the addition of: The human diet consisted of 95% plants for 90% of human evolution. [1]
References
--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Neutrality0000 ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add more info regarding health effects, citing a variety of studies and articles? I would appreciate if I could contribute to this part of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KA9812 ( talk • contribs) 20:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Would citing a few randomized-controlled trials from reputable journals and reporting their specific outcomes be appropriate in this case? KA9812 ( talk) 14:37, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Is it just me or does this quote not really make any sense? I'm dumbfounded that noone has made any corrections until now..; "4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet", and that "shortage of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources requires that most of the 4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet" I think that, saying "4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet because of limits caused by shortages of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources" would give convey the same meaning, in a less weird and redundant manner. Or is this incorrect perhaps? I'd love a reply or two on this, and feel free to make the correction if you're certain it would be correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4643:E6E3:0:C014:3682:D904:D9B4 ( talk) 01:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Plant-Based products and Plant-Based recipes are more economical as compare to others. Vegan or Vegetarian diet has major helth benefits to lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, better blood sugar, lower rates of cancer and weight loss, reduced saturated fats, provide carbohydrates, high fiber diet to fight against colon cancer, absorption of calcium and magnesium, balaces water and acidity, generates red and white blodd cells, boost yuor immune system, prevent a number of diseases, eliminate all dietary cholesterol, maintains bone health and live an average three to six years longer as compare to those who do not followed vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ranabilalinfo ( talk • contribs) 09:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC) Would this appropriate to include in the Health Effects section (2 Paragraphs under Plant-Based Diets and Cardiovascular Disease)? /info/en/?search=User:KA9812/sandbox KA9812 ( talk) 17:17, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
User:Zefr has removed the following from the lede, as "not lede material":
At various times in history, large populations have subsisted on plant-based diets. In 1999, it was estimated that four billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet because of limits caused by shortages of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources.<ref>David Pimentel, Marcia H. Pimentel, ''Food, Energy, and Society'', CRC Press, 2007, p. 67.</ref>
I find this removal perplexing. The fact of this trait being shared by four billion people, which was an even more substantial portion of the human population in 1999 than it is today, is one of the most important things we can report in the entire encyclopedia. I can see no good reason to remove it from the lede, and no legitimate reason whatsoever to remove reference to the actual number, or the contributing factors. I would ask Zefr to voluntary reverse his removal for discussion, per WP:BRD. If not I would propose that it be restored by consensus. bd2412 T 16:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Not in the OED, nor "palaeontolony". I see a few cryptic Google hits that could be consistent with usage in this article, but they all seem a bit musty and archaic, from the 19th century or so. Explication? Suggested subtitute(s)? Just plain Bill ( talk) 19:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. Bolding next to be removed, or I will not remove this hat. The bolding makes the page quite distressing to read, though I will not object if an experienced user feels differently. please read
WP:TPG -
Roxy, the dog.
wooF
14:36, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
|
---|
Tematice, regarding this, I reverted because the notion that a plant-based diet excludes all animal products is clearly is not true, given that the term/topic applies to vegetarians who are not vegans, meaning vegetarians who consume eggs and/or dairy. The article is clear about the term/topic's scope. Do stop editing the article in a non-neutral way. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 04:20, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
|
I have added a 'sustainability' section to the article in which I connect plant-based diets and their possitive effect towards the environment. Sources are provided.
-- BluVegan ( talk) 19:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
The term plant-based nowadays also refers to a diet that is mostly (say >75%) non-animal products, but still includes meat consumption, in the same vein as the old food pyramid, whereby plants would be at the base and meat would be at the top (where junk food used to be). I suggest mentioning this growing trend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.47.46.75 ( talk) 04:52, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Nearly the entire body of this article seems completely out of sync with the plantbased community which recognizes it as a vegan diet without necessarily the ethos, and basically nothing else towards it of value. The earliest use in books from the 1970s and 1980s afaik, clearly started "plant-based" as a vegan diet and it seems over half this article is spent hard on diluting the term back to a normal diet and how one can eat animal products on it based on recent articles of dubious expertise on the direct subject. This is an entirely new development coming only from nonpractioners or newcomers.
Then it goes on to apply this redefinition to a non-existing historical usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.146.84 ( talk) 19:47, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request adding an additional section about plant-based medications. A surprising number of common medications are not plant-based, either due to filler ingredients, active, or something as simple as shellac (derived from insects) in the pharmaceutical dye used on capsules. I recommend adding the section after "Sustainability" and before "Health research" sections. Below is the suggested wording for a vegan medicines section.
There are very few plant-based certifications for pharmaceuticals, leading most to rely on vegan certifications for medicine and supplements. Most vegan certifications for medicines and supplements ensure that the product does not contain any animal byproducts. However, many pharmaceutical ingredients can be derived from either an animal or animal-free source. This can create complications for plant-based diets that fall into a veganism category, from fruitism to raw veganism. For example, the most common inactive ingredient in tablets or capsules is magnesium stearate. [1] Magnesium stearate can be derived either from animal fat or palm oil, but manufacturers do not often make the distinction on their packaging. [2] Organizations, such as the Vegan Society, PETA, and VeganMed, offer certifications that provide clarity for consumers. [3] [4]Certifications that provide in-depth laboratory testing as a component of their certification can differentiate between animal-based and plant-based ingredients, providing consumers with peace of mind. A second concern for plant-based medicine is that the FDA regulatory process for ingredients or drug creation requires animal testing. As such, vegan certifications can only ensure that the medicine or supplement is free of animal products, but not necessarily animal testing. [5] For this reason, terminology like animal-free is more accurate than vegan. [6] Forest2020vision ( talk) 18:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
References
Not done - this is promotional, soapbox content,
WP:SOAP, and
WP:OFFTOPIC for this article. No
WP:MEDSCI source is offered (or exists, to my knowledge). --
Zefr (
talk)
20:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
I think it is still early days as research is being conducted but I did find this 2019 review in the Current Atherosclerosis Reports, [8]. Is it worth adding that to the article, or should we wait for more sources?
There is another 2018 review in the Trends in Cardiovascular Medicine, [9] but I cannot get full access to it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 13:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC) Psychologist Guy ( talk) 13:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
I request adding an additional section, “Philosophical Influence” in the “History” section, after the “Humans” subsection. A further expansion of this section will help connect the past to the present.
The history of plant-based eating goes back thousands of years. One significant rise in plant based diets occurred during the classical period with the Pythagoreans, namesake of the Greek philosopher Pythagoras. Roughly 100 years after Pythagora's death, Greek philosopher Porphyry wrote a book titled On Abstinence from the Flesh of Animals, which included some of the same arguments modern-day vegetarians use when selecting the plant-based diet. [1] His book spawned the first vegetarian society in England, which in turn inspired the first vegetarian society in America. As momentum grew for plant-based diets, the influence of Porphyry’s writing spread into the literature of America. In 1906, the creation of the Pure Food and Drug Act and the US Food and Drug Administration was an unintentional result of Upton Sinclair's book The Jungle. [2]
References
Gwnytheve ( talk) 01:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
A common theme in public discussing (and often criticizing or condemning) 'plant-based diets' is the seeming lack of evidence that practitioners' health is improved or that lives are better off. Contrasting that are numerous TYPES of physical beauty and athletic prowess and longevity and high achievement on plant-based vegan and/or vegetarian diets. I suggest that a few additional lists be developed: (a) plant-based athletes (that list is growing), (b) plant-based investors (e.g. Mort Zuckerman), (c) plant-based inventors and technologists (e.g. Steve Jobs), etc. Current lists seem to prioritize thinkers and media/entertainment celebrities - which features realized characteristics (that filtered through countless 'vetting' iterations, while famous athletes are also vetted by circumstance, but they are a distinct type of excellence when on vegan diets (which they often try to see what it's like, whether or not a condition clears or athletic prowess improves or endurance is enhanced). MaynardClark ( talk) 11:54, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
What is the point of the term if it means virtually any diet containing plants?
Stephen Newport 21:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Newport ( talk • contribs)
"When asked to choose a definition for these terms, the majority agreed plant-based means, “a menu item that contains no animal products or byproducts, instead is solely plant-based, i.e., vegan” and that plant-forward means, “menu items that focus on plant-based ingredients but not necessarily exclude meats.” Plant-Based vs. Plant-Forward
The current wiki entry is more appropriate for the term "plant-forward," which is already established as a plant-centric diet, but not limited to it, While "plant-based" is broadly understood in normal conversation with normal people as food containing plants, as the literal definition of the words in the term denote. Stephen Newport 01:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Newport ( talk • contribs)
Although this edit may have merit, it is not supported by a WP:SCIRS review, and so was reverted. Project Drawdown is an advocacy website, and is not a secondary source; WP:PROMO. Zefr ( talk) 21:57, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
WP:BRD - Moving the disputed paragraph from the lede to here. This paragraph is advocacy for "Project Drawdown" and is not specifically about a "plant-based diet". Further, the sources used are not WP:SECONDARY, but rather are part of the advocacy, however meritorious for policy they may be. Zefr ( talk) 16:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Removed content:
Plant-based diets are important for mitigating climate change because of the outsized carbon impact of meat production and the smaller land area needed for vegetable crops, allowing for reforestation and rewilding. [1] [2] Project Drawdown describes a "plant rich diet" as one of the most actionable climate change mitigation strategies. [3] Plant based diets also reduce the other environmental impacts of animal agriculture, such as water pollution and processes like deforestation, desertification and land degradation. [1] [2]
References
I think we can resolve this by rewording the first sentence as a claim rather than a statement. E.g., "Proponents of climate change mitigation have asserted that adoption of plant-based diets would reduce the outsized carbon impact of meat production". BD2412 T 16:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
According PCRA the definition of "Plant-based diet is "A plant-based diet consists of exclusively plant foods, including fruit, vegetables, grains, and legumes, and avoids meat, dairy, and eggs." [1]
This definition should be incorporated in the lead and elsewhere. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:06, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Plant-based or plant-forward eating patterns focus on foods primarily from plants. This includes not only fruits and vegetables, but also nuts, seeds, oils, whole grains, legumes, and beans. It doesn’t mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy. Rather, you are proportionately choosing more of your foods from plant sources.
References
In the "terminology" section I believe Ellen Jaffe Jones should be removed. It's not a very good source to be quoting. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 16:01, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
I am not sure about this edit [12]. The paper cited has a possible bias because it was authored by vegans i.e. Michael Greger. In regard to reversal of CVD it says "A lifestyle program that incorporates a whole, plant-based diet has been shown to reverse CVD, a feat largely elusive to medications and technologic advances. Numerous studies have demonstrated that lifestyle interventions can have a major impact on the development of, and even the reversal of, CVD" The sources linked to back up this statement are Dean Ornish and Caldwell Esselstyn, but they appear outdated, for example Dean Ornish papers were from 1998 and have never been replicated. The problem with Ornish and Esselstyn's studies is that independent clinical trials have not been done to replicate their results. This is noted by the British Heart Foundation [13] and others. The consensus view does not support the idea that a plant-based diet can reverse CVD, this may change in the future as more research is being done on this topic but we cannot put the cart before the horse and say that now because the current evidence does not support it. A plant-based diet can definitely lower the risk of CVD [14], [15] [16] so we could say it prevents it but this is obviously not the same as reversing it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Can we add a tying source that connects the growing popularity of substitutes with the specific desire for a plant-based diet? BD2412 T 03:09, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
I am currently preparing a German version of this article for WP:DE. While doing so I will go through this article, copyedit and update the sections with current sources that I use for the German article. I appreciate any help with style and language, as I'm not a native speaker. Tischbeinahe ( talk) 07:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I have deleted the following from the intro.
1. While a plant-based diet avoids or has limited animal products, [1] it is not necessarily vegan. [2] [3]
2. However, use of the phrase "plant-based diet" has changed over time and examples can be found of the phrase being used to refer to vegan diets (which only include plant-based food, none from animal sources), and vegetarian diets, which may include dairy or eggs but no meat, [4]
3. as well as diets that include limited amounts of animal-based foods, such as semi-vegetarian and authentic Mediterranean diets. [2] [5]
1. I will include "not necessarily vegetarian or vegan" in shorter form in the intro. 2. The HMS school does not give an account about how "the phrase has changed over time". This is just not backed up by the source. It doesn't even explicitly state that a vegan diet is categorized as plant-based diet. 3. The two sources do not back up the claim that commonly the Mediterranean diets is categorized as plant-based diet. The second source is a blog entry.
I do think, however, that the article should deal with the statements that the editors of this text tried to make. I will look for more reliable sources that do actually back up the claims made. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 19:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
References
The recommendations for patients who want to follow a plant-based diet may include eating a variety of fruits and vegetables that may include beans, legumes, seeds, nuts, and whole grains and avoiding or limiting animal products, added fats, oils, and refined, processed carbohydrates
Summerfield
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).It doesn't mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy. Rather, you are proportionately choosing more of your foods from plant sources.
I have deleted the "history" section, that violated WP:NOR. It was compiled from biology sources that do not deal with dietary or nutritional research. The plant-based diet that humans consume is a cultural technique that is learned and handed down. This has nothing to do with the natural history or evolution of insects and animals as it was described in section. There were some sentences about humans but again, the article describes a diet, which is a cultural technique. As with all cultural techniques the question if these are "natural" are meaningless. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:24, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Might want to mention fungi somewhere in the article, since plant-based diets are often vegetarian or vegan in nature, but those diets still permit fungi. Hppavilion1 ( talk) 06:47, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Frontiers such as this paper is being cited [17] on the article. My understanding is that most of the stuff put out by Frontiers Media is unreliable. The Frontiers series is on the list of predatory publishers. According to this "Frontiers in Oncology has 1,560 online papers and a respected editorial board and field chief editor but doesn't have an impact factor as yet". [18]. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 17:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
What's being added to this article is various systematic reviews of vegan and vegetarian diets, however we already have articles dedicated to these topics vegetarian nutrition and vegan nutrition which both need updating. To me, it makes more sense to only include reviews that have "plant-based" in the title on this article to keep the subject on topic. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 18:31, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Rheaxx666 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Rheaxx666 ( talk) 18:00, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Reverting this illogical edit was necessary because - as the article title indicates - plant-based is a diet, not a person. The source used is a commercial advocacy website, WP:ADVOCACY, not a secondary WP:RS source. Zefr ( talk) 04:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
This global analysis [23] notes that most National Dietary Guidelines include information about plant-based diets. However, when you go looking deeply most do not mention the term "plant-based diets" but mention plant-based foods.
The Dutch food-based dietary guidelines have stated that a "general guideline to eat a more plant food-based dietary pattern and limit consumption of animal-based food and 15 specific guidelines have been formulated" [24] and "A shift in the direction of a more plant-based and less animal-based dietary pattern" [25]. The Danish Official Dietary Guidelines recommend a "plant-rich" diet [26]. Nordic Recommendations state that a "plant-based diet is preferable to one largely based on animal sources" [27]. Canada’s Dietary Guidelines state "Among protein foods, consume plant-based more often" [28]. These are just some examples.
The problem is a semantics issue about how to define "plant-based" as it does not mean vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian in this context although the guidelines do have separate recommendations about vegan and vegetarian diets (as mentioned on our on vegan nutrition). Based on what I have read although many of the National Dietary Guidelines are shifting towards what might be termed "plant-based", none are quite at that stage yet or exclusively advocating plant-based and in this context it really referring to something similar to a Mediterranean diet. The British Health Foundation have classified the Mediterranean diet as a "plant-based dietary pattern", as well as the "Nordic diet" [29]. From my reading of the National Dietary Guidelines around the world many are advocating an eaten pattern similar to the Mediterranean diet but I believe it is wrong to term this plant-based.
With what I have said here, we should not include National Dietary Guidelines about "plant-based diets", as it is bound to confuse readers and run into the problem of original research. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:07, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Countryboy603 ( talk) 04:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Are you sure plant-based dieters can eat meat/dairy? I found another source saying otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466934 Countryboy603 ( talk) 02:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Just a heads-up that as part of an editathon I'm leading on June 17, new editors might be making some edits to this article. I will be giving them specific MEDRS-compliant sources to use and advising them to be concise. I'll follow up shortly afterwards to check for copyright compliance and other quality issues and will clean up stuff if needed. Cheers, Clayoquot ( talk | contribs) 23:10, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure plant-based diets are supposed to be more restrictive than vegan diets, not less. 132.194.13.184 ( talk) 15:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
(content put back on talk page; no reason to archive.)
This feels like it's some kind of advert for this Plant-based Nutrition mob, masquerading as a real topic. Since just about every diet is plant-based to some extent, I say just merge it into vegetarianism if there is any real content to be had here. FlagSteward 10:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm proposing that this page be converted into a "disambiguation" page with the following links:
-- Thomas.vandenbroeck ( talk) 19:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
This proposal has been up for a week without any objection or any additional suggestions. I will be making these updates today. Thanks.
--
Thomas.vandenbroeck (
talk)
16:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
I have no idea if this will stay up as a disambiguation page. I am neutral on the idea.- Sinneed 16:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
It would be useful to rethink this stance on rating the page. Plant Based Diet is becoming an accepted term to group all types of diets that are primarily based on plants. I have recently seen
Harvard Public School of Health (see point 3),
articles, and
informational sites use the term. In addition, the term is used in
researchand
here as well as common everyday usage by the
media.
Jmurry (
talk)
14:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Just came across another use of the term in a UN report -
Assessing the Environmental Impacts of Consumption and production (see pages 79 & 80).
Jmurry (
talk)
00:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
This DAB page should be converted to an article since none of the linking topics have the words "Plant-Based" in them. It is fair to say that the definition of "Plant-Based" is open to debate - which is what can happen in a WP page called "Plant-based diet." As a disambiguation page, however, there is no room to add references such as this article from Kaiser Permanente:
The article offers a very recent discussion over the definition of the term (including the fact there are variations) and a useful bibliography. The best place for the reference is in an article called "Plant-Based Diet." - Classicfilms ( talk) 17:48, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I forgot about that guideline. Remember though, it's a guideline, not a strict rule (the policies are our governing rules, guidelines define our best practices). A small introduction with a citation shouldn't be a problem, but if you have a larger article in mind with multiple references, it's best to adhere to the guideline.
OK, here's what I suggest:
I believe there would be no controversy generated by that process. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 00:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
It will be awhile before I can build an article of quality. Therefore, I would like to create a space here for editors to add articles on the topic of Plant-Based Diets. I will begin by adding articles and add more over time. Other editors are of course welcome to begin writing the article as well - I check in periodically so you can always leave a note on my talk page. All articles should adhere to: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and articles in peer reviewed scientific journals are of particular interest. Hard copy is of course always welcome. I would also like to see sources that can offer a history of the term "Plant-Based" as well as other terms such as "Plant - Strong" and "Plant - Perfect."
- Classicfilms ( talk) 22:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
I think this article by Kaiser offers a model for how to think about the way in which the term is used.
There are literally thousands of links in GoogleScholar for the term "plant-based." So there are many ways to go about it. I'm not looking to supplant the vegetarian or vegan articles - both are excellent articles. "Plant-Based" is a term that is out there and thus fair game for a Wikipedia article. But again in the future, not in the present. That's it for today. - Classicfilms ( talk) 22:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Not sure why this has been removed. Various individuals/groups follow a plant-based diet but are not vegan or vegetarian. These individuals still consume animal products, including meat, once or twice per week. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 10:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
ClassicFilms, if you want to include the doctors' names, it's not a problem, but it shouldn't be done by linking as though their diets have articles. Better to include their bios as a See also. Sarah (talk) 22:33, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
The vegetarianism article specifically discusses semi-vegetarians - "Individuals sometimes label themselves "vegetarian" while practicing a semi-vegetarian diet,[10][29][30] as some dictionary definitions describe vegetarianism as sometimes including the consumption of fish, or only include mammalian flesh as part of their definition of meat,[9][31] while other definitions exclude fish and all animal flesh.[12] In other cases, individuals may describe themselves as "flexitarian".[29][32] These diets may be followed by those who reduce animal flesh consumed as a way of transitioning to a complete vegetarian diet or for health, ethical, environmental, or other reasons. Semi-vegetarian diets include:....". This article overlaps that one, completely. BD2412 will you please reconsider? Thx. Jytdog ( talk) 12:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
From my understanding, plant-based diet is Meat-free, but that does not in any words mean it's Vegan. Am I right on this? I would like to learn more about that here. Thanks! -- huggi - never stop exploring ( talk) 09:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
...or even anywhere in the article: "As of 1999 it was estimated that four billion people live on a plant-based diet because of the absence of resources necessary to support a meat-based one.[4]" So Wikipedia now claims that the vast majority of the Earth's population at the time would have stopped their plant-based diet and switched to a meat-based one if they just had more money? Isn't the source itself crystal-balling (WP:CRYSTAL)? This is one which doesn't seem to me to belong in the article at all, let alone in the lead. Randy Kryn 3:02, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Should this article remain a WP:MOSDAB page which prohibits references? If we transition it to MOS:LIST, then we can add references that will aid the reader in understanding the use of the term. - Classicfilms ( talk) 16:12, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
This entire discussion seems to hinge on a faulty premise. A disambiguation page is a page for articles with matching titles (i.e. Mercury, Mercury and Mercury). It is not a list of concepts that are related. Note that, per WP:DABMENTION, we must police and remove any link on this page for which it can not be demonstrated that the subject is referred to by the phrase "Plant-based diet". For example, nowhere in Lacto vegetarianism does it say that "Lacto vegetarianism" is also known as "plant-based diet". Disambiguation page guidelines are very strict about that. If discussion of the subject requires variance from those guidelines, then it is not a disambiguation page, period. bd2412 T 17:31, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
There are some common sense tests that I like to use when examining potential dabconcept situations. One of these is what I call the "I'm an expert" test. It goes like this: could a person reasonably represent themselves as an expert in [term], without having to be an expert in multiple fields of knowledge (i.e. without having degrees from different departments in the typical university)? Although there are many species of tuna that are called "bluefin tuna" person could be an expert in "bluefin tuna" without needing to specify a particular species. Compare that to a person claiming to be an expert on "Mercury", or a "battery" expert. The expert on "Mercury" would need to have both Roman mythology and astronomy in his knowledge base. The expert on "battery" would need both chemical engineering and law, as well as some military history and (depending how significant the subtopic was considered) baseball, too.
At some point the sources got confused – and I believe Wikipedia contributed to that confusion – and started referring to non-vegan diets as plant-based too. It is now a PR term that is used loosely. It can mean a vegan diet (no animal sources); a vegetarian diet (no animal sources that require killing the animal – so eggs and dairy are okay, but not meat); or a semi-vegetarian diet (meat is included but not much). There is the added advice to minimize junk, but that was always an implicit part of the vegan/vegetarian diet anyway.
Because of this confusion, it seemed sensible to leave it as a dab page and list all the diets that plant-based can refer to. But a redirect to one of the other articles would work too. Sarah (talk) 22:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Classicfilms has strongly recommended the use of one source, this 2013 article by Philip Tuso of Kaiser Permanente, which defines (or redefines) plant-based diet as one allowing some meat, eggs and dairy.
Tuso is on the board of directors of the Plantrician Project, which has laudable health goals. He writes in the 2013 article: "Physicians should advocate that it is time to get away from terms like vegan and vegetarian and start talking about eating healthy, whole, plant-based foods (primarily fruits and vegetables) and minimizing consumption of meat, eggs, and dairy products. Physicians should be informed about these concepts so they can teach them to staff and patients."
The mistake Classicfilms has made is in trying to have Wikipedia lead from the front in this attempt to change the language. The result is that we have caused other sources to become confused, and their confusion is reflected back into Wikipedia, when editors not familiar with these issues rely on the confused sources. So plant-based diet now refers to a vegan diet, a vegetarian diet, and a semi-vegetarian diet (which can mean anything). That is why it makes most sense to stick with the dab page until uninvolved, authoritative sources have decided how to use the term. Sarah (talk) 20:28, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
If the primary meaning of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is capable of being described in an article, and a substantial portion of the links asserted to be ambiguous are instances or examples of that concept or type, then the page located at that title should be an article describing it, and not a disambiguation page.
Plant-based diet" has been used to refer to:
Human diet
Other
other potential articles . . .
That's all this entire page would be. All a DAB page does is list the name of the article and maybe an extremely brief few word summary of what the term means from the article. All the rest of the information goes to the individual articles instead and there's no need for any controversy at this time unless plant-based diet very concretely becomes it's own individual term (which it may be shown in sources someday) as opposed to a general catch all search term. What I've described is what is being suggested by making it a disambiguation page rather than an article linking to a bunch of others with more text and references. Kingofaces43 ( talk) 07:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Plant-based diet has been used to refer to:
The best way to proceed is to list here completely uninvolved, authoritative sources (none of the celebrity doctors) and how they use the term. People should add here what they find:
adding some more reviews from the biomedical literature and statements from major medical/scientific organizations Jytdog ( talk) 02:09, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Inquiry about adding a statement of the known health benefits of plant-based diets? While there are numerous sources pointing to the benefit of plant-based diets for overall health, an isolated example would include the recent 'talk' I entered on myocardial infarction. I feel strongly, as many medical professional do, that these evidence-based conclusions should be as well-known to the public as they are to clinically updated health professionals.
A 20-year nutritional study done by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., a former internationally known surgeon, researcher and clinician at the Cleveland Clinic, explains in his book how myocardial infarction can be prevented, reversed, and even abolished. Dr. Esselstyn argues that conventional cardiology has failed patients by developing treatments that focus only on the symptoms of heart disease, not the cause. Dr. Esselstyn convincingly argues and produces convincing results that a plant-based, oil-free diet can not only prevent and stop the progression of heart disease, but also reverse its effects. http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1.pdf
As stated in the National Center for Biotechnology Information “Nutritional Update for Physicians” (which includes its own comprehensive list of citations), “Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition concludes, “…substantial evidence indicates that plant-based diets including whole grains as the main form of carbohydrate, unsaturated fats as the predominate form of dietary fat, an abundance of fruit and vegetables, and adequate n−3 fatty acids can play an important role in preventing CVD. Such diets—which have other health benefits, including the prevention of other chronic diseases—deserve more emphasis in dietary recommendations.” http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/544S.full Karyn Swaney ( talk) 17:57, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
What can be provided about health effects in animals? I know some factory farmed cows are force fed cow meat for some commercial benefit, but I'd suspect to their ultimate detriment. And can carnivorous animals subsist on a diet of plants in some circumstances? Pandeist ( talk) 18:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
I think for this article to make progress we have to mark a separation between people who end up on this diet by need (third-world countries), by happenstance (vegans), and by those striving for optimal health (whole food plant based folk).
I think this separation is necessary because we can't attribute the health benefits (if they exist) of the latter group automatically to the other two, and we can't say that the health risk/benefits of refined oils are a controversy among all people on a plant-based diet, etc.
They also have a separate history. Poor people eating plants is older than our species, large-scale veganism is a little recent, and the whole foods approach to disease prevention is only a "movement" (trend?) since the 1950s at the earliest.
I don't have an elaborate plan, but wanted to explain a little of what I'm trying. Comments and edits very much appreciated. Great floors ( talk) 12:58, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
My current text lacks citations, and, while I agree some should be added, I hope others can agree that there's nothing controversial there, and it's all backed up by the linked Wikipedia pages and the existing references in the article. Great floors ( talk) 13:19, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Can I use a Youtube video of Pritikin saying "I allow a little milk to make the diet more palatable" as a reference for the claim that Pritikin allows a little milk to make the diet more palatable?
I guess this escapes WP:MED because it's a matter of style and historical record rather than medical advice. Right? Great floors ( talk) 13:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
One issue I can see is what criteria to use. The people advocating this concept don't form a defined group. Should the DASH diet be discussed as a healthy plant-based diet? I've never seen it called such, so I'd say no. What about Joel Fuhrman? I don't know, I don't think he's contributed to the movement/trend/topic, but I can see how others would think he did. Hmm... We could use the criteria of "people who use the term 'whole food plant-based' to describe their work - plus the people they cite as inspiration"? Great floors ( talk) 13:48, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
Anyone who's read up on this topic will recognise that what I'm describing is a coherent, documented topic that exists, but I can also see how an indepenedent observer with good knowledge of WP policies could justify deleting the whole thing (and I don't know if I'd have counter arguments). Should it be discussed in this article? or in vegan nutrition? or in its own whole food plant-based diets article? Great floors ( talk) 14:47, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
I think the article should have a section something like this:
I added it, but it got deleted without discussion. I hope someone finds it useful as a starting point for adding to WP. My efforts just get reverted without discussion (or a curt link to policies which are sometimes relevant, sometimes not). Great floors ( talk) 16:30, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
References
The sections below were removed from the article for discussion.
References
Not only are the references outdated (2008 and before), but the collective quality does not meet scientific consensus per WP:MEDSCI. Mainly, the proposed new text and sources come together as soapbox speculations remaining unconfirmed and still under study, such as this 2017 systematic review, PMID 28938794, which concludes: "Plant-based diets are associated with decreased total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol". We can state this remains a preliminary conclusion from ongoing clinical research, and further details are yet to be established. -- Zefr ( talk) 23:12, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
The phrasing "generally subsisting on a plant-based diet, but supplementing with meat when possible" would be more specific with the addition of: The human diet consisted of 95% plants for 90% of human evolution. [1]
References
--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Neutrality0000 ( talk • contribs) 19:56, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to add more info regarding health effects, citing a variety of studies and articles? I would appreciate if I could contribute to this part of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KA9812 ( talk • contribs) 20:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
Would citing a few randomized-controlled trials from reputable journals and reporting their specific outcomes be appropriate in this case? KA9812 ( talk) 14:37, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Is it just me or does this quote not really make any sense? I'm dumbfounded that noone has made any corrections until now..; "4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet", and that "shortage of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources requires that most of the 4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet" I think that, saying "4 billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet because of limits caused by shortages of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources" would give convey the same meaning, in a less weird and redundant manner. Or is this incorrect perhaps? I'd love a reply or two on this, and feel free to make the correction if you're certain it would be correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4643:E6E3:0:C014:3682:D904:D9B4 ( talk) 01:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Plant-Based products and Plant-Based recipes are more economical as compare to others. Vegan or Vegetarian diet has major helth benefits to lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, better blood sugar, lower rates of cancer and weight loss, reduced saturated fats, provide carbohydrates, high fiber diet to fight against colon cancer, absorption of calcium and magnesium, balaces water and acidity, generates red and white blodd cells, boost yuor immune system, prevent a number of diseases, eliminate all dietary cholesterol, maintains bone health and live an average three to six years longer as compare to those who do not followed vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ranabilalinfo ( talk • contribs) 09:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC) Would this appropriate to include in the Health Effects section (2 Paragraphs under Plant-Based Diets and Cardiovascular Disease)? /info/en/?search=User:KA9812/sandbox KA9812 ( talk) 17:17, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
User:Zefr has removed the following from the lede, as "not lede material":
At various times in history, large populations have subsisted on plant-based diets. In 1999, it was estimated that four billion people live primarily on a plant-based diet because of limits caused by shortages of cropland, freshwater, and energy resources.<ref>David Pimentel, Marcia H. Pimentel, ''Food, Energy, and Society'', CRC Press, 2007, p. 67.</ref>
I find this removal perplexing. The fact of this trait being shared by four billion people, which was an even more substantial portion of the human population in 1999 than it is today, is one of the most important things we can report in the entire encyclopedia. I can see no good reason to remove it from the lede, and no legitimate reason whatsoever to remove reference to the actual number, or the contributing factors. I would ask Zefr to voluntary reverse his removal for discussion, per WP:BRD. If not I would propose that it be restored by consensus. bd2412 T 16:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Not in the OED, nor "palaeontolony". I see a few cryptic Google hits that could be consistent with usage in this article, but they all seem a bit musty and archaic, from the 19th century or so. Explication? Suggested subtitute(s)? Just plain Bill ( talk) 19:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. Bolding next to be removed, or I will not remove this hat. The bolding makes the page quite distressing to read, though I will not object if an experienced user feels differently. please read
WP:TPG -
Roxy, the dog.
wooF
14:36, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
|
---|
Tematice, regarding this, I reverted because the notion that a plant-based diet excludes all animal products is clearly is not true, given that the term/topic applies to vegetarians who are not vegans, meaning vegetarians who consume eggs and/or dairy. The article is clear about the term/topic's scope. Do stop editing the article in a non-neutral way. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 04:20, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
|
I have added a 'sustainability' section to the article in which I connect plant-based diets and their possitive effect towards the environment. Sources are provided.
-- BluVegan ( talk) 19:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
The term plant-based nowadays also refers to a diet that is mostly (say >75%) non-animal products, but still includes meat consumption, in the same vein as the old food pyramid, whereby plants would be at the base and meat would be at the top (where junk food used to be). I suggest mentioning this growing trend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.47.46.75 ( talk) 04:52, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Nearly the entire body of this article seems completely out of sync with the plantbased community which recognizes it as a vegan diet without necessarily the ethos, and basically nothing else towards it of value. The earliest use in books from the 1970s and 1980s afaik, clearly started "plant-based" as a vegan diet and it seems over half this article is spent hard on diluting the term back to a normal diet and how one can eat animal products on it based on recent articles of dubious expertise on the direct subject. This is an entirely new development coming only from nonpractioners or newcomers.
Then it goes on to apply this redefinition to a non-existing historical usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.146.84 ( talk) 19:47, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I request adding an additional section about plant-based medications. A surprising number of common medications are not plant-based, either due to filler ingredients, active, or something as simple as shellac (derived from insects) in the pharmaceutical dye used on capsules. I recommend adding the section after "Sustainability" and before "Health research" sections. Below is the suggested wording for a vegan medicines section.
There are very few plant-based certifications for pharmaceuticals, leading most to rely on vegan certifications for medicine and supplements. Most vegan certifications for medicines and supplements ensure that the product does not contain any animal byproducts. However, many pharmaceutical ingredients can be derived from either an animal or animal-free source. This can create complications for plant-based diets that fall into a veganism category, from fruitism to raw veganism. For example, the most common inactive ingredient in tablets or capsules is magnesium stearate. [1] Magnesium stearate can be derived either from animal fat or palm oil, but manufacturers do not often make the distinction on their packaging. [2] Organizations, such as the Vegan Society, PETA, and VeganMed, offer certifications that provide clarity for consumers. [3] [4]Certifications that provide in-depth laboratory testing as a component of their certification can differentiate between animal-based and plant-based ingredients, providing consumers with peace of mind. A second concern for plant-based medicine is that the FDA regulatory process for ingredients or drug creation requires animal testing. As such, vegan certifications can only ensure that the medicine or supplement is free of animal products, but not necessarily animal testing. [5] For this reason, terminology like animal-free is more accurate than vegan. [6] Forest2020vision ( talk) 18:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
References
Not done - this is promotional, soapbox content,
WP:SOAP, and
WP:OFFTOPIC for this article. No
WP:MEDSCI source is offered (or exists, to my knowledge). --
Zefr (
talk)
20:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
I think it is still early days as research is being conducted but I did find this 2019 review in the Current Atherosclerosis Reports, [8]. Is it worth adding that to the article, or should we wait for more sources?
There is another 2018 review in the Trends in Cardiovascular Medicine, [9] but I cannot get full access to it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 13:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC) Psychologist Guy ( talk) 13:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
I request adding an additional section, “Philosophical Influence” in the “History” section, after the “Humans” subsection. A further expansion of this section will help connect the past to the present.
The history of plant-based eating goes back thousands of years. One significant rise in plant based diets occurred during the classical period with the Pythagoreans, namesake of the Greek philosopher Pythagoras. Roughly 100 years after Pythagora's death, Greek philosopher Porphyry wrote a book titled On Abstinence from the Flesh of Animals, which included some of the same arguments modern-day vegetarians use when selecting the plant-based diet. [1] His book spawned the first vegetarian society in England, which in turn inspired the first vegetarian society in America. As momentum grew for plant-based diets, the influence of Porphyry’s writing spread into the literature of America. In 1906, the creation of the Pure Food and Drug Act and the US Food and Drug Administration was an unintentional result of Upton Sinclair's book The Jungle. [2]
References
Gwnytheve ( talk) 01:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
A common theme in public discussing (and often criticizing or condemning) 'plant-based diets' is the seeming lack of evidence that practitioners' health is improved or that lives are better off. Contrasting that are numerous TYPES of physical beauty and athletic prowess and longevity and high achievement on plant-based vegan and/or vegetarian diets. I suggest that a few additional lists be developed: (a) plant-based athletes (that list is growing), (b) plant-based investors (e.g. Mort Zuckerman), (c) plant-based inventors and technologists (e.g. Steve Jobs), etc. Current lists seem to prioritize thinkers and media/entertainment celebrities - which features realized characteristics (that filtered through countless 'vetting' iterations, while famous athletes are also vetted by circumstance, but they are a distinct type of excellence when on vegan diets (which they often try to see what it's like, whether or not a condition clears or athletic prowess improves or endurance is enhanced). MaynardClark ( talk) 11:54, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
What is the point of the term if it means virtually any diet containing plants?
Stephen Newport 21:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Newport ( talk • contribs)
"When asked to choose a definition for these terms, the majority agreed plant-based means, “a menu item that contains no animal products or byproducts, instead is solely plant-based, i.e., vegan” and that plant-forward means, “menu items that focus on plant-based ingredients but not necessarily exclude meats.” Plant-Based vs. Plant-Forward
The current wiki entry is more appropriate for the term "plant-forward," which is already established as a plant-centric diet, but not limited to it, While "plant-based" is broadly understood in normal conversation with normal people as food containing plants, as the literal definition of the words in the term denote. Stephen Newport 01:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Newport ( talk • contribs)
Although this edit may have merit, it is not supported by a WP:SCIRS review, and so was reverted. Project Drawdown is an advocacy website, and is not a secondary source; WP:PROMO. Zefr ( talk) 21:57, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
WP:BRD - Moving the disputed paragraph from the lede to here. This paragraph is advocacy for "Project Drawdown" and is not specifically about a "plant-based diet". Further, the sources used are not WP:SECONDARY, but rather are part of the advocacy, however meritorious for policy they may be. Zefr ( talk) 16:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Removed content:
Plant-based diets are important for mitigating climate change because of the outsized carbon impact of meat production and the smaller land area needed for vegetable crops, allowing for reforestation and rewilding. [1] [2] Project Drawdown describes a "plant rich diet" as one of the most actionable climate change mitigation strategies. [3] Plant based diets also reduce the other environmental impacts of animal agriculture, such as water pollution and processes like deforestation, desertification and land degradation. [1] [2]
References
I think we can resolve this by rewording the first sentence as a claim rather than a statement. E.g., "Proponents of climate change mitigation have asserted that adoption of plant-based diets would reduce the outsized carbon impact of meat production". BD2412 T 16:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
According PCRA the definition of "Plant-based diet is "A plant-based diet consists of exclusively plant foods, including fruit, vegetables, grains, and legumes, and avoids meat, dairy, and eggs." [1]
This definition should be incorporated in the lead and elsewhere. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:06, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Plant-based or plant-forward eating patterns focus on foods primarily from plants. This includes not only fruits and vegetables, but also nuts, seeds, oils, whole grains, legumes, and beans. It doesn’t mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy. Rather, you are proportionately choosing more of your foods from plant sources.
References
In the "terminology" section I believe Ellen Jaffe Jones should be removed. It's not a very good source to be quoting. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 16:01, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
I am not sure about this edit [12]. The paper cited has a possible bias because it was authored by vegans i.e. Michael Greger. In regard to reversal of CVD it says "A lifestyle program that incorporates a whole, plant-based diet has been shown to reverse CVD, a feat largely elusive to medications and technologic advances. Numerous studies have demonstrated that lifestyle interventions can have a major impact on the development of, and even the reversal of, CVD" The sources linked to back up this statement are Dean Ornish and Caldwell Esselstyn, but they appear outdated, for example Dean Ornish papers were from 1998 and have never been replicated. The problem with Ornish and Esselstyn's studies is that independent clinical trials have not been done to replicate their results. This is noted by the British Heart Foundation [13] and others. The consensus view does not support the idea that a plant-based diet can reverse CVD, this may change in the future as more research is being done on this topic but we cannot put the cart before the horse and say that now because the current evidence does not support it. A plant-based diet can definitely lower the risk of CVD [14], [15] [16] so we could say it prevents it but this is obviously not the same as reversing it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 11:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Can we add a tying source that connects the growing popularity of substitutes with the specific desire for a plant-based diet? BD2412 T 03:09, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
I am currently preparing a German version of this article for WP:DE. While doing so I will go through this article, copyedit and update the sections with current sources that I use for the German article. I appreciate any help with style and language, as I'm not a native speaker. Tischbeinahe ( talk) 07:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
I have deleted the following from the intro.
1. While a plant-based diet avoids or has limited animal products, [1] it is not necessarily vegan. [2] [3]
2. However, use of the phrase "plant-based diet" has changed over time and examples can be found of the phrase being used to refer to vegan diets (which only include plant-based food, none from animal sources), and vegetarian diets, which may include dairy or eggs but no meat, [4]
3. as well as diets that include limited amounts of animal-based foods, such as semi-vegetarian and authentic Mediterranean diets. [2] [5]
1. I will include "not necessarily vegetarian or vegan" in shorter form in the intro. 2. The HMS school does not give an account about how "the phrase has changed over time". This is just not backed up by the source. It doesn't even explicitly state that a vegan diet is categorized as plant-based diet. 3. The two sources do not back up the claim that commonly the Mediterranean diets is categorized as plant-based diet. The second source is a blog entry.
I do think, however, that the article should deal with the statements that the editors of this text tried to make. I will look for more reliable sources that do actually back up the claims made. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 19:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
References
The recommendations for patients who want to follow a plant-based diet may include eating a variety of fruits and vegetables that may include beans, legumes, seeds, nuts, and whole grains and avoiding or limiting animal products, added fats, oils, and refined, processed carbohydrates
Summerfield
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).It doesn't mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy. Rather, you are proportionately choosing more of your foods from plant sources.
I have deleted the "history" section, that violated WP:NOR. It was compiled from biology sources that do not deal with dietary or nutritional research. The plant-based diet that humans consume is a cultural technique that is learned and handed down. This has nothing to do with the natural history or evolution of insects and animals as it was described in section. There were some sentences about humans but again, the article describes a diet, which is a cultural technique. As with all cultural techniques the question if these are "natural" are meaningless. CarlFromVienna ( talk) 07:24, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Might want to mention fungi somewhere in the article, since plant-based diets are often vegetarian or vegan in nature, but those diets still permit fungi. Hppavilion1 ( talk) 06:47, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
Frontiers such as this paper is being cited [17] on the article. My understanding is that most of the stuff put out by Frontiers Media is unreliable. The Frontiers series is on the list of predatory publishers. According to this "Frontiers in Oncology has 1,560 online papers and a respected editorial board and field chief editor but doesn't have an impact factor as yet". [18]. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 17:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
What's being added to this article is various systematic reviews of vegan and vegetarian diets, however we already have articles dedicated to these topics vegetarian nutrition and vegan nutrition which both need updating. To me, it makes more sense to only include reviews that have "plant-based" in the title on this article to keep the subject on topic. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 18:31, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Rheaxx666 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Rheaxx666 ( talk) 18:00, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Reverting this illogical edit was necessary because - as the article title indicates - plant-based is a diet, not a person. The source used is a commercial advocacy website, WP:ADVOCACY, not a secondary WP:RS source. Zefr ( talk) 04:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
This global analysis [23] notes that most National Dietary Guidelines include information about plant-based diets. However, when you go looking deeply most do not mention the term "plant-based diets" but mention plant-based foods.
The Dutch food-based dietary guidelines have stated that a "general guideline to eat a more plant food-based dietary pattern and limit consumption of animal-based food and 15 specific guidelines have been formulated" [24] and "A shift in the direction of a more plant-based and less animal-based dietary pattern" [25]. The Danish Official Dietary Guidelines recommend a "plant-rich" diet [26]. Nordic Recommendations state that a "plant-based diet is preferable to one largely based on animal sources" [27]. Canada’s Dietary Guidelines state "Among protein foods, consume plant-based more often" [28]. These are just some examples.
The problem is a semantics issue about how to define "plant-based" as it does not mean vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian in this context although the guidelines do have separate recommendations about vegan and vegetarian diets (as mentioned on our on vegan nutrition). Based on what I have read although many of the National Dietary Guidelines are shifting towards what might be termed "plant-based", none are quite at that stage yet or exclusively advocating plant-based and in this context it really referring to something similar to a Mediterranean diet. The British Health Foundation have classified the Mediterranean diet as a "plant-based dietary pattern", as well as the "Nordic diet" [29]. From my reading of the National Dietary Guidelines around the world many are advocating an eaten pattern similar to the Mediterranean diet but I believe it is wrong to term this plant-based.
With what I have said here, we should not include National Dietary Guidelines about "plant-based diets", as it is bound to confuse readers and run into the problem of original research. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 22:07, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Countryboy603 ( talk) 04:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
Are you sure plant-based dieters can eat meat/dairy? I found another source saying otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466934 Countryboy603 ( talk) 02:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Just a heads-up that as part of an editathon I'm leading on June 17, new editors might be making some edits to this article. I will be giving them specific MEDRS-compliant sources to use and advising them to be concise. I'll follow up shortly afterwards to check for copyright compliance and other quality issues and will clean up stuff if needed. Cheers, Clayoquot ( talk | contribs) 23:10, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure plant-based diets are supposed to be more restrictive than vegan diets, not less. 132.194.13.184 ( talk) 15:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)