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Is it known as to why the tree depicted is a pine tree? If so, perhaps that should also be posted. Andersr9 ( talk) 15:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I have read that this flag predates the revolution by as much as a century. The tree represents the timber industry, which was the principle export from the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Makes sense to me. Massachusetts was valued by the British for their timber used in shipbuilding. 20:00, 13 March 2017 (UTC) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.102.213.18 ( talk)
Why is it deemed significant to state the flag was flown during the 2021 Attack on the Capitol? What is the author trying to imply? And it's been flying ever since.... The flag has been flying for centuries. 74.190.22.98 ( talk) 01:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
The flag is currently being flown around the country as a symbol of support for the insurrection. This is why the fact that it was flown while storming the Capitol is important. Odoketa ( talk) 15:23, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Is it weird that the image for this article is something someone apparently made in MS Paint? 50.108.199.141 ( talk) 21:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
For some reason we have decided to add that this flag was used at the, January 6 United States Capitol attack and that it was shown at a Supreme Court Judge's house. It being used at the attack only came to light after it was shown at a Supreme Court Judge's house.
This violates WP:RECENTISM, it only seems to be popping up because of a supreme court case coming up and will lose any relevance after. The fact that it being used at January 6 United States Capitol attack only showing up after the news about it being used at a Supreme Court Judge's house proves that it doesn't belong in this article. It maybe relevant to other articles like Samuel Alito but not here. 99.126.127.19 ( talk) 22:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I live in Maine and there's a big movement here to restore the original Maine flag. This can easily be confused with that flag. I, myself, thought at first that it was about the Maine flag. I strongly recommend adding a "not to be confused with the Flag of Maine (1901–1909)" notice at the top of this page. I'd do it myself but I only know how to use the talk page and basic edits, not advanced stuff so I don't want to screw anything up. GamerKlim9716 ( talk) 04:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
It really is amazing that @ Ymblanter rushed in to protect the version of the page that was full of left wing political vandalism, not revert it to the pre-vandalized state then lock and allow discussion. You guys don't even pretend to not be political operatives, do you. 71.173.196.6 ( talk) 21:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
If anything, seems Wikipedia has bent over backward not to condemn those who may deserve condemnation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4300:ee90:d932:9e7a:54fd:f86e ( talk) 20:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Just had my edit reverted by Drmies for being a Reddit link, but I linked it because it was a dated photo. That seems like a perfectly fair use of Reddit - I'm not citing to an argument someone made there (obviously, that'd be silly). I confess that I don't know all the WP policies in detail, but did I actually do something wrong here? Or was this just another editor seeing a sketchy-looking link, and reverting out of reflex?
To be clear, I wouldn't blame them too much for a reflexive undo in this case. I can see why that looked like someone screwing around with the page. But I think this specific usage is actually legit, and I'd like to see it (or something similar) put back into the article. Alsadius ( talk) 04:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
The recent edits on this page are intended to provide cover for attacks on Justice Alito and are malicious in nature. The accusations that the flag is associated with White Nationalism only started getting play after a previous attack for flying a US in the "Distress" position failed to gain traction.
The use of this flag has a long history in the United States. The use by Trump supporters during January 6th is well documented and deserves inclusion, but the use by other high profile Americans seems undue unless there are reliable sources connecting them to the Trump movement. Most of this is just speculation and should be avoided. Nemov ( talk) 13:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
TBH I'm not really sure if this classifies as viral, but some of the recent activity on this page is probably linked to this tweet which has ~4K likes [3] decrying the recent changes as politically motivated. Just a heads-up if any brigading goes on. Dingers5Days ( talk) 15:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This comment is not an endorsement or condemnation of any candidate, ideology, position, activity, lifestyle or worldview, and is not deliberately intended to possess a disparate impact or favor one over another. |
[4] @ Drmies: is this anything? jp× g 🗯️ 01:45, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Everything I have seen suggests that the claim this flag is associated with the Far Right or Christian Nationalists all stem from Jared Holt, a senior analyst at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue and Bradley Onishi, author of “Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism". The Institute for Strategic Dialogue is a political advocacy organization, and Bradley Onishi appears to have written multiple editorials with a far left-leaning bias. Neither of these sources seem credible, despite the veneer given them by the AP. The claim that the flag has associations with the far right appears to be entirely generated by political activists, which the intention of inflaming controversy, which Wikipedia appears all too eager to indulge. agomulka ( talk) 00:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
I looked at the citation given for the flag's appearance at BLM protests, but the article only discusses the upside down american flag making appearances at those protests. Nowhere does it mention that the Pine Tree Flag was seen at those protests. Either better citation needed, or should be removed.
Original sentence: In the 2020s, the flag was flown at events attended by various far-right groups, Christian nationalists and Donald Trump's "Stop the Steal" campaign, along with protests associated with the Black Lives Matter movement and other causes.
Original citation: https://gazette.com/news/wex/what-are-the-flags-alito-is-under-fire-for/article_2b8e993e-34f8-50fc-a7c8-2df36ff84072.html Dexteritee00 ( talk) 17:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
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Add additional citations for context: Flag has been flown outside of San Francisco City Hall for decades since the 1960’s
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/appeal-to-heaven-flag-civic-center-plaza-19483162.php
https://sfist.com/2024/05/29/appeal-to-heaven-flag-part-of-city-collection-for-decades-quietly-removed-from-sfs-civic-center-plaza/ 2601:400:8000:C8E0:D8A8:265C:1CE0:CFB3 ( talk) 00:22, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
When I ran a Bing search for this flag "Appeal to Heaven Flag", it brings up the Wiki page, but the short text that goes with the result states "green background with a white pine tree". Granted when you click on it and go to the Wiki, it has the correct description, but could confuse someone just doing a quick search but not going all the way into the site. Lord-Nelson29 ( talk) 18:32, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
"In the 2020s, the flag was flown at events attended by various far-right groups including a Christian nationalist strand of Donald Trump's "Stop the Steal" movement."
Does this include the black lives matter protest pictured in the same paragraph. 68.129.198.125 ( talk) 19:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Pine Tree Flag article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about Pine Tree Flag. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Pine Tree Flag at the Reference desk. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Wikipedia policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Wikipedia are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
Is it known as to why the tree depicted is a pine tree? If so, perhaps that should also be posted. Andersr9 ( talk) 15:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I have read that this flag predates the revolution by as much as a century. The tree represents the timber industry, which was the principle export from the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Makes sense to me. Massachusetts was valued by the British for their timber used in shipbuilding. 20:00, 13 March 2017 (UTC) -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.102.213.18 ( talk)
Why is it deemed significant to state the flag was flown during the 2021 Attack on the Capitol? What is the author trying to imply? And it's been flying ever since.... The flag has been flying for centuries. 74.190.22.98 ( talk) 01:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
The flag is currently being flown around the country as a symbol of support for the insurrection. This is why the fact that it was flown while storming the Capitol is important. Odoketa ( talk) 15:23, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Is it weird that the image for this article is something someone apparently made in MS Paint? 50.108.199.141 ( talk) 21:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
For some reason we have decided to add that this flag was used at the, January 6 United States Capitol attack and that it was shown at a Supreme Court Judge's house. It being used at the attack only came to light after it was shown at a Supreme Court Judge's house.
This violates WP:RECENTISM, it only seems to be popping up because of a supreme court case coming up and will lose any relevance after. The fact that it being used at January 6 United States Capitol attack only showing up after the news about it being used at a Supreme Court Judge's house proves that it doesn't belong in this article. It maybe relevant to other articles like Samuel Alito but not here. 99.126.127.19 ( talk) 22:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
I live in Maine and there's a big movement here to restore the original Maine flag. This can easily be confused with that flag. I, myself, thought at first that it was about the Maine flag. I strongly recommend adding a "not to be confused with the Flag of Maine (1901–1909)" notice at the top of this page. I'd do it myself but I only know how to use the talk page and basic edits, not advanced stuff so I don't want to screw anything up. GamerKlim9716 ( talk) 04:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
It really is amazing that @ Ymblanter rushed in to protect the version of the page that was full of left wing political vandalism, not revert it to the pre-vandalized state then lock and allow discussion. You guys don't even pretend to not be political operatives, do you. 71.173.196.6 ( talk) 21:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
If anything, seems Wikipedia has bent over backward not to condemn those who may deserve condemnation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4300:ee90:d932:9e7a:54fd:f86e ( talk) 20:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Just had my edit reverted by Drmies for being a Reddit link, but I linked it because it was a dated photo. That seems like a perfectly fair use of Reddit - I'm not citing to an argument someone made there (obviously, that'd be silly). I confess that I don't know all the WP policies in detail, but did I actually do something wrong here? Or was this just another editor seeing a sketchy-looking link, and reverting out of reflex?
To be clear, I wouldn't blame them too much for a reflexive undo in this case. I can see why that looked like someone screwing around with the page. But I think this specific usage is actually legit, and I'd like to see it (or something similar) put back into the article. Alsadius ( talk) 04:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
The recent edits on this page are intended to provide cover for attacks on Justice Alito and are malicious in nature. The accusations that the flag is associated with White Nationalism only started getting play after a previous attack for flying a US in the "Distress" position failed to gain traction.
The use of this flag has a long history in the United States. The use by Trump supporters during January 6th is well documented and deserves inclusion, but the use by other high profile Americans seems undue unless there are reliable sources connecting them to the Trump movement. Most of this is just speculation and should be avoided. Nemov ( talk) 13:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
TBH I'm not really sure if this classifies as viral, but some of the recent activity on this page is probably linked to this tweet which has ~4K likes [3] decrying the recent changes as politically motivated. Just a heads-up if any brigading goes on. Dingers5Days ( talk) 15:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This comment is not an endorsement or condemnation of any candidate, ideology, position, activity, lifestyle or worldview, and is not deliberately intended to possess a disparate impact or favor one over another. |
[4] @ Drmies: is this anything? jp× g 🗯️ 01:45, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Everything I have seen suggests that the claim this flag is associated with the Far Right or Christian Nationalists all stem from Jared Holt, a senior analyst at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue and Bradley Onishi, author of “Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism". The Institute for Strategic Dialogue is a political advocacy organization, and Bradley Onishi appears to have written multiple editorials with a far left-leaning bias. Neither of these sources seem credible, despite the veneer given them by the AP. The claim that the flag has associations with the far right appears to be entirely generated by political activists, which the intention of inflaming controversy, which Wikipedia appears all too eager to indulge. agomulka ( talk) 00:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
I looked at the citation given for the flag's appearance at BLM protests, but the article only discusses the upside down american flag making appearances at those protests. Nowhere does it mention that the Pine Tree Flag was seen at those protests. Either better citation needed, or should be removed.
Original sentence: In the 2020s, the flag was flown at events attended by various far-right groups, Christian nationalists and Donald Trump's "Stop the Steal" campaign, along with protests associated with the Black Lives Matter movement and other causes.
Original citation: https://gazette.com/news/wex/what-are-the-flags-alito-is-under-fire-for/article_2b8e993e-34f8-50fc-a7c8-2df36ff84072.html Dexteritee00 ( talk) 17:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add additional citations for context: Flag has been flown outside of San Francisco City Hall for decades since the 1960’s
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/appeal-to-heaven-flag-civic-center-plaza-19483162.php
https://sfist.com/2024/05/29/appeal-to-heaven-flag-part-of-city-collection-for-decades-quietly-removed-from-sfs-civic-center-plaza/ 2601:400:8000:C8E0:D8A8:265C:1CE0:CFB3 ( talk) 00:22, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
When I ran a Bing search for this flag "Appeal to Heaven Flag", it brings up the Wiki page, but the short text that goes with the result states "green background with a white pine tree". Granted when you click on it and go to the Wiki, it has the correct description, but could confuse someone just doing a quick search but not going all the way into the site. Lord-Nelson29 ( talk) 18:32, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
"In the 2020s, the flag was flown at events attended by various far-right groups including a Christian nationalist strand of Donald Trump's "Stop the Steal" movement."
Does this include the black lives matter protest pictured in the same paragraph. 68.129.198.125 ( talk) 19:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)