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This new page has been set up owing to the elevation in royal rank of Phrarajbhavanavisudh to Phrathepyanmahamuni since 5 December 2010. I propose to change the original page [Phrarajbhavanavisudh] from which this content has been copied into a forwarding link to this one. I may not have time to do this myself, in case anyone else has the chance. Thanissaro ( talk) 03:21, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
This section should also include that the wat was also accused of being communist. Considering this accusation came during the end of the Cold War period, it would provide more context on how at times the Thai government's accusations to the wat may have been influenced by outside pressure. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 22:34, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Please cleanup this section by specifying a clear time frame, and more context. Not all readers are expected to know the specifics of Thai politics and the role of all the organizations institutions involved, so more detail and context should be given. Wikipedia is not Bangkok Post. It may even be considered that the current political events in Thailand are too unpredictable to write anything here. All the more because the case of Wat Phra Dhammakaya's involvement in money laundering has not yet been decided upon. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 22:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
These issues are now solved, though regular updating remains necessary. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 14:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
The majority of the writers of this article, myself included to some extent, may be subjected to Thailand's strict lese majeste laws if the role of the royal family would be discussed in this article. Also, the present Thai government prosecutes people criticizing certain policies. It may therefore be required to find people who edit this article who are not subject to Thai laws and regulations, and also will not be in the near future. Please help me to find the right tag to address this issue. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 23:04, 18 April 2016 (UTC) S Khemadhammo ( talk) 20:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose to list the page as Dhammajayo rather than Phrathepyanmahamuni. Dhammajayo currently redirects to Phrathepyanmahmuni. My reasons for this are:
@ Sitush: can you give your opinion/interpretation here? WP:HONORIFICS is the right policy here, right? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 14:24, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
References
Hello Wikiman,
I am thinking again to merge Luang Por Dhammajayo with Wat Phra Dhammakaya. I just don't think we can do much about this article—his life is just too similar to the temple's history. Arguably, Luang Por is the temple, and the temple is him. It's not going to work as a separate article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Okay, Wikiman, give it a try and we'll re-evaluate.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 21:46, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
Wikiman5676, when you trimmed the article, you removed the sources section below the citations. Lots of reference errors now.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 23:57, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
There is also the issue of the pictures: the pictures in the article of Luang Por Dhamma have been mostly nominated for deletion, so we need pictures with permission from the temple to replace those. Maybe we can ask the DhLeaks44 guy, and there is also a Dhammakaya user on Wikipedia apparently, called Dhammakaya072. Both haven't edited much, but the latter hasn't edited since 2012, and the leaks guy sent me some pictures the other day.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 15:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Leave him a message: You mean Honey Kochphon Onshawee? I don't know if she's on Wikipedia. I uploaded the image myself, but Honey—whoever that is—owns the Pixbay account that hosted the picture with a CC license. The argument against the picture now is that it being hosted under that license was illegitimate, because she did not take the picture herself.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 09:13, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I sent him/her a picture message.--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk)
12:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Pk9720 ( talk) 09:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC):Dear Editor ,I have a question regarding the article “Luang Por Dhammajayo” under the section "Teaching" 2nd paragraph "Luang Por Dhammajayo is known for his modern style of temple management and iconography.”.What is the word "iconography" refer to ?Example, refer to the ways Luang Por Dhammajayo using "pictures" during his "Dream in Dream" program explain on the case study section ? [Currently, I am translating the article ,from English to other languages].Kindly advise,tks Pk9720 ( talk) 09:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Pk9720 ( talk) 02:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC):Farang Rak Tham (nam-ma-sa-kan, krap) ,Thanks for your explanation on "iconography" use in the section.Previously I just using the meaning found in dictionary alone (but after asking one of my friend to read through it.She don't understand the translation use on "iconography".It trigger me to dig deeper into the use of the word "iconography" in the section. Now I could use the proper "words" in translating of the word "iconography" in my article. Pk9720 ( talk) 02:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Vami IV ( talk · contribs) 19:44, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I am reviewing this article as a quid pro quo for the nominator's having reviewed one of my articles. I am not Buddhist or Thai, nor have I any knowledge on Buddhism or Thailand. However, I think I (now) have enough knowledge on what a quality article should look like. Let's get started. – Vami _IV✠ 00:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
For replying to reviewer comment, please use a template such as Done,
Added, or
Fixed, followed by a comment if you deem necessary.
There are, as of time of writing, a totality of of 131 citations. Citations 18, 19, 22–25, 27, 47, 50, and 94 are broken. They are using
Template:sfnref, but there is no established ref handle for them.
Another problem is that the citations are not consistent. I'll use the first two paragraphs of "Early life and background" to show you what I mean. In the first citation in the prose (citation 5), you have given the reference and the page to turn to (outside citation). In the second, you give the page inside the citation and it's unmarked ("p." or "pp."). Then in the third citation, the method of the first is employed again. Then there are the sfnrefs, which introduce a third citation format and another layer of citation method. Most of the citations used are one-offs, so it's natural that they're long-form. Sfnrefs are by their nature short-form, making them more suited for a reference being used frequently.
Section-by-section review of the article. – Vami _IV✠ 00:15, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
[...] who would often play dangerous games with fellow friends.Doesn't "friend" imply "fellow"?
Sra Prathum PalaceI did a google for this and got "Sra Pathum Palace," and no Wikipedia page for either. What's going on here?
[...] especially in books on Buddhist practice and biographies of leading people in the world, both religious and political.Consider
especially on Buddhist practice and biographies of leading people in the world, both religious and political.
One of these early acquaintances later became a Buddhist monk and Luang Por Dhammajayo's assistant in the endeavor to establish a meditation center: Phadet Phongsawat, since ordaining known as Luang Por Dattajivo, who would become the vice-abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya.Firstly, this sentence is impressively long. Secondly, and the edit history can now attest to this, I as the reader got confused as to who our homeboy Phadet Phongsawat is, as there wasn't a link to him...except there is, four words later. I would shorten "since ordained known as" to "since ordained as" or "now known as."
During university, he took a lifelong vow of celibacy as a birthday gift to Maechi Chandra, inspiring many of her students to do the same.Sentence two mentions that Chaiyabun was persuaded to finish his degree, but the reader has to get to sentence five before they learn that his degree was in economics. I would move this into "Early life and background," unless he majored in something else when Chaiyabun enrolled at Kasetsart University. Moving that bit of sentence five will also immediately make it shorter and therefore more pleasant on the eye. To close, sentence six reads awkwardly and I think sentence seven would be better earlier in the paragraph.
However in years to follow this would gradually become less, as she grew older and withdrew more to the background of the temple's organization and Luang Por Dhammajayo received a greater role.Long and awkward. Rewrite?
(during the Asian economic boom)Link?
By the mid-1980s, the temple was attracting up to fifty thousand people on major ceremonies.This and the above bullet point could be the same sentence, which could then form the final sentence in the first paragraph of "Life as abbot."
Widespread negative media coverage at this time was symptomatic of the temple being made the scapegoat for commercial malpractice in the Thai Buddhist temple community[50][51] in the wake of the 1997 Asian financial crisis.[52][53]I loathe citations not held down by punctuation, but reviews aren't for pushing my dogma. The other problem with this sentence is that it's pretty wordy and not very clear. Refer to WP:SPADE:
Widespread media coverage made the temple a scapegoat for the commercial malpractice of the Thai Buddhist temple community in the wake of the 1997 crisis.[50][51][52][53]
[...] a department modeled on the FBI, [...]Irrelevant?
The temple emphasizes the usefulness of meditating in a group, and public meditations are taught to have powerful effect on the minds of the practitioners.? The sentence implies the former.
[...] emphasizing cleanliness, orderliness and quiet, as a morality by itself, and as a way to support meditation practice.The latter portion of this is kind of awkward. Perhaps
[...] orderliness and silence, as a morality by itself and as a support for meditation.?
these controversies.
Thanks for all the help,
Wikiman5676!
I have now addressed all your comments, but I will be expanding the article a bit during the following days before we wrap up.--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk)
11:55, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk) 07:37, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
Farang Rak Tham the date of the publicized standoff was in Feb 2017 was it not? Why does it say 2016 in the lead? Wikiman5676 ( talk) 19:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | Luang Por Dhammajayo has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Luang Por Dhammajayo is part of the Dhammakaya movement in Thailand series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text has been copied to or from this article; see the list below. The source pages now serve to
provide attribution for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This new page has been set up owing to the elevation in royal rank of Phrarajbhavanavisudh to Phrathepyanmahamuni since 5 December 2010. I propose to change the original page [Phrarajbhavanavisudh] from which this content has been copied into a forwarding link to this one. I may not have time to do this myself, in case anyone else has the chance. Thanissaro ( talk) 03:21, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
This section should also include that the wat was also accused of being communist. Considering this accusation came during the end of the Cold War period, it would provide more context on how at times the Thai government's accusations to the wat may have been influenced by outside pressure. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 22:34, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Please cleanup this section by specifying a clear time frame, and more context. Not all readers are expected to know the specifics of Thai politics and the role of all the organizations institutions involved, so more detail and context should be given. Wikipedia is not Bangkok Post. It may even be considered that the current political events in Thailand are too unpredictable to write anything here. All the more because the case of Wat Phra Dhammakaya's involvement in money laundering has not yet been decided upon. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 22:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
These issues are now solved, though regular updating remains necessary. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 14:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
The majority of the writers of this article, myself included to some extent, may be subjected to Thailand's strict lese majeste laws if the role of the royal family would be discussed in this article. Also, the present Thai government prosecutes people criticizing certain policies. It may therefore be required to find people who edit this article who are not subject to Thai laws and regulations, and also will not be in the near future. Please help me to find the right tag to address this issue. S Khemadhammo ( talk) 23:04, 18 April 2016 (UTC) S Khemadhammo ( talk) 20:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
I propose to list the page as Dhammajayo rather than Phrathepyanmahamuni. Dhammajayo currently redirects to Phrathepyanmahmuni. My reasons for this are:
@ Sitush: can you give your opinion/interpretation here? WP:HONORIFICS is the right policy here, right? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 14:24, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
References
Hello Wikiman,
I am thinking again to merge Luang Por Dhammajayo with Wat Phra Dhammakaya. I just don't think we can do much about this article—his life is just too similar to the temple's history. Arguably, Luang Por is the temple, and the temple is him. It's not going to work as a separate article.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:39, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Okay, Wikiman, give it a try and we'll re-evaluate.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 21:46, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
Wikiman5676, when you trimmed the article, you removed the sources section below the citations. Lots of reference errors now.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 23:57, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
There is also the issue of the pictures: the pictures in the article of Luang Por Dhamma have been mostly nominated for deletion, so we need pictures with permission from the temple to replace those. Maybe we can ask the DhLeaks44 guy, and there is also a Dhammakaya user on Wikipedia apparently, called Dhammakaya072. Both haven't edited much, but the latter hasn't edited since 2012, and the leaks guy sent me some pictures the other day.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 15:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Leave him a message: You mean Honey Kochphon Onshawee? I don't know if she's on Wikipedia. I uploaded the image myself, but Honey—whoever that is—owns the Pixbay account that hosted the picture with a CC license. The argument against the picture now is that it being hosted under that license was illegitimate, because she did not take the picture herself.-- Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 09:13, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I sent him/her a picture message.--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk)
12:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Pk9720 ( talk) 09:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC):Dear Editor ,I have a question regarding the article “Luang Por Dhammajayo” under the section "Teaching" 2nd paragraph "Luang Por Dhammajayo is known for his modern style of temple management and iconography.”.What is the word "iconography" refer to ?Example, refer to the ways Luang Por Dhammajayo using "pictures" during his "Dream in Dream" program explain on the case study section ? [Currently, I am translating the article ,from English to other languages].Kindly advise,tks Pk9720 ( talk) 09:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Pk9720 ( talk) 02:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC):Farang Rak Tham (nam-ma-sa-kan, krap) ,Thanks for your explanation on "iconography" use in the section.Previously I just using the meaning found in dictionary alone (but after asking one of my friend to read through it.She don't understand the translation use on "iconography".It trigger me to dig deeper into the use of the word "iconography" in the section. Now I could use the proper "words" in translating of the word "iconography" in my article. Pk9720 ( talk) 02:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Vami IV ( talk · contribs) 19:44, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I am reviewing this article as a quid pro quo for the nominator's having reviewed one of my articles. I am not Buddhist or Thai, nor have I any knowledge on Buddhism or Thailand. However, I think I (now) have enough knowledge on what a quality article should look like. Let's get started. – Vami _IV✠ 00:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
For replying to reviewer comment, please use a template such as Done,
Added, or
Fixed, followed by a comment if you deem necessary.
There are, as of time of writing, a totality of of 131 citations. Citations 18, 19, 22–25, 27, 47, 50, and 94 are broken. They are using
Template:sfnref, but there is no established ref handle for them.
Another problem is that the citations are not consistent. I'll use the first two paragraphs of "Early life and background" to show you what I mean. In the first citation in the prose (citation 5), you have given the reference and the page to turn to (outside citation). In the second, you give the page inside the citation and it's unmarked ("p." or "pp."). Then in the third citation, the method of the first is employed again. Then there are the sfnrefs, which introduce a third citation format and another layer of citation method. Most of the citations used are one-offs, so it's natural that they're long-form. Sfnrefs are by their nature short-form, making them more suited for a reference being used frequently.
Section-by-section review of the article. – Vami _IV✠ 00:15, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
[...] who would often play dangerous games with fellow friends.Doesn't "friend" imply "fellow"?
Sra Prathum PalaceI did a google for this and got "Sra Pathum Palace," and no Wikipedia page for either. What's going on here?
[...] especially in books on Buddhist practice and biographies of leading people in the world, both religious and political.Consider
especially on Buddhist practice and biographies of leading people in the world, both religious and political.
One of these early acquaintances later became a Buddhist monk and Luang Por Dhammajayo's assistant in the endeavor to establish a meditation center: Phadet Phongsawat, since ordaining known as Luang Por Dattajivo, who would become the vice-abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya.Firstly, this sentence is impressively long. Secondly, and the edit history can now attest to this, I as the reader got confused as to who our homeboy Phadet Phongsawat is, as there wasn't a link to him...except there is, four words later. I would shorten "since ordained known as" to "since ordained as" or "now known as."
During university, he took a lifelong vow of celibacy as a birthday gift to Maechi Chandra, inspiring many of her students to do the same.Sentence two mentions that Chaiyabun was persuaded to finish his degree, but the reader has to get to sentence five before they learn that his degree was in economics. I would move this into "Early life and background," unless he majored in something else when Chaiyabun enrolled at Kasetsart University. Moving that bit of sentence five will also immediately make it shorter and therefore more pleasant on the eye. To close, sentence six reads awkwardly and I think sentence seven would be better earlier in the paragraph.
However in years to follow this would gradually become less, as she grew older and withdrew more to the background of the temple's organization and Luang Por Dhammajayo received a greater role.Long and awkward. Rewrite?
(during the Asian economic boom)Link?
By the mid-1980s, the temple was attracting up to fifty thousand people on major ceremonies.This and the above bullet point could be the same sentence, which could then form the final sentence in the first paragraph of "Life as abbot."
Widespread negative media coverage at this time was symptomatic of the temple being made the scapegoat for commercial malpractice in the Thai Buddhist temple community[50][51] in the wake of the 1997 Asian financial crisis.[52][53]I loathe citations not held down by punctuation, but reviews aren't for pushing my dogma. The other problem with this sentence is that it's pretty wordy and not very clear. Refer to WP:SPADE:
Widespread media coverage made the temple a scapegoat for the commercial malpractice of the Thai Buddhist temple community in the wake of the 1997 crisis.[50][51][52][53]
[...] a department modeled on the FBI, [...]Irrelevant?
The temple emphasizes the usefulness of meditating in a group, and public meditations are taught to have powerful effect on the minds of the practitioners.? The sentence implies the former.
[...] emphasizing cleanliness, orderliness and quiet, as a morality by itself, and as a way to support meditation practice.The latter portion of this is kind of awkward. Perhaps
[...] orderliness and silence, as a morality by itself and as a support for meditation.?
these controversies.
Thanks for all the help,
Wikiman5676!
I have now addressed all your comments, but I will be expanding the article a bit during the following days before we wrap up.--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk)
11:55, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
--
Farang Rak Tham
(Talk) 07:37, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
Farang Rak Tham the date of the publicized standoff was in Feb 2017 was it not? Why does it say 2016 in the lead? Wikiman5676 ( talk) 19:17, 8 November 2021 (UTC)