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This comment by Walkerma is copied from Talk:Phosphoric acid:
I look upon this page as a sort of unifying introductory or summary page for the various kinds of phosphoric acids and phosphates. There are links to individual articles about the different kinds of phosphates such as orthophosphoric acid, pyrophosphate, polyphosphate, etc. where these individual phosphates are covered in more detail. Generally, I'm trying to keep detailed information on a single phosphate form not relevant to the other phosphates (not even by way of comparison) out of this article and in the individual compound articles. H Padleckas 09:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Note, a distinction needs to be made between the ester-type functionalities and the anhydride-type functionalities encompassed by the general "phosphate" nomenclature. For instance, the addition of the first phosphoryl group to an organic alcohol -- such as to the 5'-hydroxyl group of adenosine, in a dehydration reaction to form AMP) -- is the formation of an ester, R-O-PO3(2-), charge state at neutral pH in water, where R represents the adenosine portion. This product has usual "phosphate monoester" chemistry (structure, ionizability, reactivity and stability, etc.). The addition of the second and third phosphoryl groups to an ester such as AMP result in the formation of "anhydride" functionalities, e.g., for ADP, R-O-PO2(-)-O-PO3(2-), charges as above. This is a different type of product with very distinct chemical structure, reactivity and stability. That is, the term phosphate in "adenosine monophosphate" and in "adenosine diphosphate" are not referring to the same type of chemical structure at all, with regard to the "phosphate" portion. (For the writers to eventually clarify.) Prof D 98.193.10.59 ( talk) 00:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be renamed Phosphoric acids and phosphates, to comply with the guidelines at Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Lowercase second and subsequent words in titles?
Ben 19:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I have just recategorised phosphorus acid from a stub to a disambiguation page, but wondered if it should actually be a redirect to (for example) this page. My inorganic chemistry is a bit too rusty to know if "Phosphorus acid" is valid or a mis-understanding of chemical nomenclature. Que ( talk) 23:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
If the IUPAC name is "phosphoric acid" meaning orthophosphoric acid, then the comment that "even some chemists" call it that is totally backwards. Or should we assume that chemists attempt to NOT comply with IUPAC nomenclature? Both this article and the orthop. one have this surprized tone that chemists actually use the IUPAC name. Wow! 71.31.153.56 ( talk) 06:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I too admire the work put into this page, but have to challenge the writers in these areas, (i) in terms of referencing, pointing out that the first 3 of the 4 references are not worthy, in terms of relative importance among all publications on the subject, and in terms of their ideas relative to the preponderance of scientific opinion, to appear in any encyclopedia article (fourth reference, bravo), and likewise the same is true for the only "further reading" citation; (ii) the article skims over the fact that one most often means phosphoric acid esters when discussing "phosphates", thereby missing an opportunity to explain a basic aspect of phosphoryl group and ester importance and chemistry, and (iii) that the article does not yet address what are, ostensibly, the most important classes of phosphoric acid (phosphate) esters to human activity, mono- and diesters composed indirectly from phosphoric acid, and from organic alcohols (primarily saccharides; respectively, e.g., in sugar "phosphates" like glucose-6-phosphate, etc., and the polynucleotides of RNA and DNA)—the former critical in all biological chemistry / metabolism and cellular signaling, and the latter in biological information transfer. (The critical enzyme and drug target class of the "kinases" are nothing other than phosphoryl group transfer catalysts producing various types of such esters.) In omitting information/sections, the article misses an essential chemical unity of nature, vis-a-vis the role of P(III) and P(IV) oxyacid derivatives in inorganic and organic/living systems (see, for instance, Figure 3.53 in "Nucleic Acids in Chemistry and Biology," 2006, GM Blackburn, MJ Gair, LD Loakes, and DM Williams eds., 3rd Ed., Cambridge: RSC Publishing). Prof D 98.193.10.59 ( talk) 00:01, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that there is good evidence for the transient existence of HO-PO2 during the p-chem studies of some precursors and also as an intermediate in some phosphate biochemistry. See, for example, Lowe, G.; Sproat, B. S. J. Chem. Soc., Chem. Commun. 1978, 783– 785. Cullis, P. M.; Iagrossi, A.; Rous, A. J. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1986, 108, 7869– 7870. (I can't access those journals at this time, but I think those are relevant papers.) Thermal retro-hetero-Diels-Alder of oxsphosphinanes (6-membered ~C-C=C-C-P(O)(OH)-O~ ring) is one example reaction that is supposed to release detectable gas phase HO-PO2 plus C=C-C=C .
Or is the current consensus that monomeric metaphosphate does not exist? AdderUser ( talk) 01:32, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Currently, Wikipedia has three pages Phosphoric acids and phosphates, Phosphorus acid, and Polyphosphate, about oxyacids and oxyanions of phosphorus. I feel that three is more than necessary, but I am unsure which to merge into or split among which. Please provide feedback pertaining to whether the other pages should be merged into this page, this page should be split to the other pages, or something else. Care to differ or discuss with me? The Nth User 23:25, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Phosphorus acid which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 21:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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This comment by Walkerma is copied from Talk:Phosphoric acid:
I look upon this page as a sort of unifying introductory or summary page for the various kinds of phosphoric acids and phosphates. There are links to individual articles about the different kinds of phosphates such as orthophosphoric acid, pyrophosphate, polyphosphate, etc. where these individual phosphates are covered in more detail. Generally, I'm trying to keep detailed information on a single phosphate form not relevant to the other phosphates (not even by way of comparison) out of this article and in the individual compound articles. H Padleckas 09:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Note, a distinction needs to be made between the ester-type functionalities and the anhydride-type functionalities encompassed by the general "phosphate" nomenclature. For instance, the addition of the first phosphoryl group to an organic alcohol -- such as to the 5'-hydroxyl group of adenosine, in a dehydration reaction to form AMP) -- is the formation of an ester, R-O-PO3(2-), charge state at neutral pH in water, where R represents the adenosine portion. This product has usual "phosphate monoester" chemistry (structure, ionizability, reactivity and stability, etc.). The addition of the second and third phosphoryl groups to an ester such as AMP result in the formation of "anhydride" functionalities, e.g., for ADP, R-O-PO2(-)-O-PO3(2-), charges as above. This is a different type of product with very distinct chemical structure, reactivity and stability. That is, the term phosphate in "adenosine monophosphate" and in "adenosine diphosphate" are not referring to the same type of chemical structure at all, with regard to the "phosphate" portion. (For the writers to eventually clarify.) Prof D 98.193.10.59 ( talk) 00:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be renamed Phosphoric acids and phosphates, to comply with the guidelines at Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Lowercase second and subsequent words in titles?
Ben 19:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I have just recategorised phosphorus acid from a stub to a disambiguation page, but wondered if it should actually be a redirect to (for example) this page. My inorganic chemistry is a bit too rusty to know if "Phosphorus acid" is valid or a mis-understanding of chemical nomenclature. Que ( talk) 23:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
If the IUPAC name is "phosphoric acid" meaning orthophosphoric acid, then the comment that "even some chemists" call it that is totally backwards. Or should we assume that chemists attempt to NOT comply with IUPAC nomenclature? Both this article and the orthop. one have this surprized tone that chemists actually use the IUPAC name. Wow! 71.31.153.56 ( talk) 06:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I too admire the work put into this page, but have to challenge the writers in these areas, (i) in terms of referencing, pointing out that the first 3 of the 4 references are not worthy, in terms of relative importance among all publications on the subject, and in terms of their ideas relative to the preponderance of scientific opinion, to appear in any encyclopedia article (fourth reference, bravo), and likewise the same is true for the only "further reading" citation; (ii) the article skims over the fact that one most often means phosphoric acid esters when discussing "phosphates", thereby missing an opportunity to explain a basic aspect of phosphoryl group and ester importance and chemistry, and (iii) that the article does not yet address what are, ostensibly, the most important classes of phosphoric acid (phosphate) esters to human activity, mono- and diesters composed indirectly from phosphoric acid, and from organic alcohols (primarily saccharides; respectively, e.g., in sugar "phosphates" like glucose-6-phosphate, etc., and the polynucleotides of RNA and DNA)—the former critical in all biological chemistry / metabolism and cellular signaling, and the latter in biological information transfer. (The critical enzyme and drug target class of the "kinases" are nothing other than phosphoryl group transfer catalysts producing various types of such esters.) In omitting information/sections, the article misses an essential chemical unity of nature, vis-a-vis the role of P(III) and P(IV) oxyacid derivatives in inorganic and organic/living systems (see, for instance, Figure 3.53 in "Nucleic Acids in Chemistry and Biology," 2006, GM Blackburn, MJ Gair, LD Loakes, and DM Williams eds., 3rd Ed., Cambridge: RSC Publishing). Prof D 98.193.10.59 ( talk) 00:01, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that there is good evidence for the transient existence of HO-PO2 during the p-chem studies of some precursors and also as an intermediate in some phosphate biochemistry. See, for example, Lowe, G.; Sproat, B. S. J. Chem. Soc., Chem. Commun. 1978, 783– 785. Cullis, P. M.; Iagrossi, A.; Rous, A. J. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1986, 108, 7869– 7870. (I can't access those journals at this time, but I think those are relevant papers.) Thermal retro-hetero-Diels-Alder of oxsphosphinanes (6-membered ~C-C=C-C-P(O)(OH)-O~ ring) is one example reaction that is supposed to release detectable gas phase HO-PO2 plus C=C-C=C .
Or is the current consensus that monomeric metaphosphate does not exist? AdderUser ( talk) 01:32, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Currently, Wikipedia has three pages Phosphoric acids and phosphates, Phosphorus acid, and Polyphosphate, about oxyacids and oxyanions of phosphorus. I feel that three is more than necessary, but I am unsure which to merge into or split among which. Please provide feedback pertaining to whether the other pages should be merged into this page, this page should be split to the other pages, or something else. Care to differ or discuss with me? The Nth User 23:25, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Phosphorus acid which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 21:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)