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The present revision of the article (as of 1 January 2015, permanent link here) includes the claim that Milton Keynes Dons F.C. are a phoenix club of Wimbledon F.C.. I tagged this as requiring sources to back it up and references were added—however, although the links in question illustrate the connection between Wimbledon FC and MK Dons in terms of League registration and so forth (as described amply in our Relocation of Wimbledon F.C. to Milton Keynes article), not one of them uses "phoenix club" or any similar term to refer to MK Dons (a few of the links provided to back up the claim do include the phrase, but only in reference to AFC Wimbledon). I can't help thinking that in the absence of reliable sources directly backing up this article's description of MK Dons as a phoenix club, our inclusion of it is original research. — Cliftonian (talk) 17:15, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Phoenix clubs - refer to a club that is set up to replace a football club's parent company but that wants to run the club and keep the team in competition In some cases, phoenix clubs will retain the name of the club which they replaced, implying a continuation from the former team. In other cases, name changes occur, many of them due to proprietorial ownership existing on the old club's name
Everything you described is contradictory in itself.
Which bit of this MK DONS do not fit?
Then why is the founding date 2004 and not 1889? Why are the trophies now with Merton Council not the real WFC? why are there 2 seperate articles in this case Wimbledon F.C. and MK Dons? Abcmaxx ( talk) 18:46, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah they were forced to give back their trophies, but the MK Dons legally are not allowed to refer to any history before 2004 as themselves. Also I fail to see why Wellington Phoenix are a phoenix club of New Zealand Knights FC but MK Dons aren't of WFC. Abcmaxx ( talk) 18:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
That was exactly my point. I still fail to see how they are not a phoenix club, seeing as like you say, the 2004 date is of significant relevance. It may not be a "traditional" phoenix club but it still satisfies all the criteria Abcmaxx ( talk) 19:27, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Your last sentence is the most POV statement I've heard so far - AFC Wimbledon are far more of a phoenix club than MK Dons are. that's original research too fed by your own biased emotions. In what way AFC are more or less a phoenix than let's say Enfield Town? Or 1874 Northwich? And showing that MKD fans think they are WFC's continuators is a FACT hence why it's backed up by reliable sources - whether you like it, agree with it or makes your blood boil or not, it's a stone-cold hard-faced fact Abcmaxx ( talk) 00:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Looking at the examples given in the article, Leeds U and G Rangers and comparing: WFC went into administration but not formally bankrupt [though the taxman wrote off their debts], InterMK bought the business as a more-or-less going concern and relaunched albeit with a modified (but not totally different) name. The badge had to be changed anyway because of the College of Arms ruling and to recognise its new base. If it had happened a year later, they'd have had at least the 15 point deduction. If the rescue had happened in West London rather than MK, nobody would be arguing - be honest, its another proxy for the relocation argument. MKD Ltd is the lawful successor of WFC Ltd, as much as are GR and LU: the 2004 break is simply a fiction that was created pragmatically to end the boycott. So MKD certainly fits the definition of a Pheonix club - no way is it bollocks. However there remains the problem of lack of an external source to cite. To my mind, that is the only obstacle to its being listed - and if people start adding every other club that has been in and out of administration then absolutly MKD should be there too. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 20:37, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
So I'm guessing MK DONS fans opinion doesn't count again, what do they think? They are a common set supporters too. As long as AFC think WFC and themselves are that and the other and a newspaper quotes them, all is hunky dory and the world should think and do whatever they say. Also interesting to see that everyone putting in so much effort into MK Dons NOT being in this article, but I could put in a load of random clubs from other countries completely make them up to be phoenix club and no-one would give a shit. The AFC crusade and hijack continues, and everyone else is following them like blind sheep. No-one cared when I put New Brighton A.F.C. in here nor Jeju United nor FC Seoul in here but MK Dons God forbid if ever there was anything objective or any suggestion that AFC aren't what they say they are. I wonder how many newspapers specifically call Rotherham Town F.C. (1899) a phoenix club of Rotherham Town F.C. (1878) Abcmaxx ( talk) 20:50, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Of course Chesterfield do, because they are regurgitating the self-started myth of AFC = WFC, (and that aside, seeing from their dirty tactics in the FA Cup this year I doubt they are a club which would be advised to look to for any sort of guidance). So what would you consider a phoenix club other than AFC then? How many articles do you think there are on "phoenix clubs"? It's not a popular phrase anyway. My point still stands, as long as the sainthood of AFC is preserved no-one really gives a toss about the other clubs. No-one seemed to be interested in this article at all until the Dons were mentioned. A dictionary definition of a phoenix is a person or thing that has become renewed or restored after suffering calamity or apparent annihilation. WFC has certainly been anhillated, and the MK Dons certainly restored and renewed order. I don't see why a some AFC-sympathising columnist in the Guardian or another newspaper is a reliable source but actual facts and the opinions of thousands of Dons fans are invalid. Moreover the concept of refounding a club under the same or similar name to continue a defunct clubs traditions has always existed - it just wasn't named as such Abcmaxx ( talk) 23:27, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I think we've got the definition of a phoenix club wrong. Surely a phoenix club is one set up after a previous club is forced into closure, rather than any club that simply replaces another? Taking the case of Football Kingz FC's disestablishment and the formation of New Zealand Knights FC, the latter makes no attempt to carry on the "spirit" of the old club, they simply carried on with a similar group of executives in charge and took Football Kingz FC's place in the Australian National Soccer League. AFC Wimbledon, however, is a phoenix club because they were set up to replace Wimbledon FC and carry on their "spirit" after they moved to Milton Keynes and became the Milton Keynes Dons; they've even got a similar badge. Obviously this definition would need to be backed up by reliable sources, since I'm really just spitballing ideas, but it seems to me that User:Abcmaxx is adding clubs to this list under a misguided idea of what a phoenix club actually is. – Pee Jay 20:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
You just did it again! I feel like I'm going insane! If they are a literal continuation they cannot not claim to share the old club's history. How can you be a continuation of something you can't claim to be? Abcmaxx ( talk) 00:21, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
There's evidence of reliable sources of MKD assuming continuity of WFC and them not being the same club. It's pretty simple really. I know that AFC are holier than thou and can do no wrong and are the phoenix club of all phoenix club's but you still haven't done a single thing to what would be any legitimate criteria for establishing a phoenix club other than "if it's not like AFC, it's not a phoenix club" Abcmaxx ( talk) 01:28, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Is it interesting, is it not, that 250 edits ago this article began with the simple clear statement The term "phoenix club" is given to football clubs that are created following the demise of an existing club. It is usual for the phoenix club to be created and supported by the supporters of the club which has ended.. In the meantime, however, the lede has been munged so that it now reads (in summary) "a phoenix club 'means whatever I want it to mean, no more and no less'" (Alice in Wonderland) but specifically framed such that AFCW is to be included but MKD is to be excluded. Bias, what bias? So let's see: does anybody object if I reinstate the original, NPOV, text? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 00:19, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess the voice MK Dons fans is irrelevant again then I take it. Just because the majority of fans bum-lick AFC and consider them the holiest and the most tragically hard done-by victims ever to have suffered in the history of football in this life and the next, thanks to evil spawn of satan that are the MK fans who "robbed", "slaughtered", "massacred" their beloved Wimbledon F.C. where millions of fans flocked to week in week out in the holy circle known as the "acceptable 20-mile radius" around the clubs namesake region of London (Merton being synonymous with Wimbledon) does not make it balanced point of view. Abcmaxx ( talk) 02:05, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
@ Abcmaxx: Do you intend to add sources to any of the clubs you have added to this list? At the minute, it seems like you're just adding any old club that seems to fit your interpretation of what a phoenix club is. This being Wikipedia, where the policy is verifiability, you should probably add some sources that say the clubs you've added are actually considered phoenix clubs, because your opinion of what constitutes a phoenix club is not sufficient. Without those sources, this article may need to be gutted. – Pee Jay 11:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Per wp:be bold, I have changed the section footnote style from numbers to letters. I did this to better distinguish footnotes from citations. I believe this is an improvement but felt I should note it here in case anyone wishes to debate it. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 00:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
After seeing some discussions around this page on several users talk pages, it was quite clear that this list was in a mess, full of unreferenced and questionable "Phoenix Clubs". I have gone through the list and made the following changes:
I could go on... I think it would be best if in future, regardless of the level of citation provided in the club articles, that no additions are made to this list without also adding a clear reference. I have performed most of these edits individually so it should be easy to review the history for specific ones (which should be listed in reverse alphabetical order geographically) and revert if a reference can be provided. Fenix down ( talk) 17:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
If someone cannot see that e.g. FC Chernomorets Burgas and PSFC Chernomorets Burgas, which are almost identical in every way and one was founded after the other by its fans; or HNK Dubrovnik 1919 and HNK Dubrovnik; or FK Bashkimi (1947–2008) and FK Bashkimi (2011), who even have the exact same name; or my favourite, seeing as most the "editors" are English Salisbury City F.C. and Salisbury F.C.; are phoenix clubs, or even better FC Etar 1924 Veliko Tarnovo and OFC Etar Veliko Tarnovo are phoneix clubs but the 1 other reincarnation isn't;, then I have serious questions as to what kind of ridiculous set of principles is applied here. Abcmaxx ( talk) 21:26, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Surely AFC Wimbledon should be categorised as a "replacement" club. They were established to tap the small remaining market of a club which saw better commercial opportunities elsewhere and continues to exist in its rebranded form. 2.220.161.220 ( talk) 12:15, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Some sound observations have been made here. It's probably also worth noting that they have never played in the area they purport to represent and the prospect of doing so appears fairly remote. 2.223.192.2 ( talk) 12:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
On a much larger scale, I don't think anyone ever suggested that the 1961 Washington Senators were a phoenix club although the circumstances seem uncannily similar. 2.125.14.100 ( talk) 12:47, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
What could be more reliable than the facts ? Remarkably, you've managed to agree with and contradict yourself without realising - I'm sure the other Wikicrats will award a prize for such devotion once they've pulled their pants back up !! 2.216.66.254 ( talk) 15:58, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Going by the description of what a "Phoenix Club" is then Rangers must be surely ? The oldco Rangers club where liquidated, end of - no argument The assets where sold to a newco -again - no argument The newco began life at the bottom of Scottish football - no argument All players of the oldco could leave or opt to continue with newco.. You cannot get away from the definition of what is a new club and what is not simply because they where a massive instituation, I fully understand and sympathise with Rangers fans, I get its very very difficult for them to accept, but the legal aspect has been clearly lost now I expect smoke n mirrors and arguments to sway away from the truth, but any person who looks objectively at the situation from a non biased pov knows Rangers are a Pheonix club, theres no doubt about it whatsoever, unless your blind to the facts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.70.250 ( talk) 18:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
North Ferriby F.C. has been added to the page but then removed many times. Some people claim that only the town name is the same but the club themselves and the supporters claim that it is a phoenix club. It is a recognised club by the FA and all sources confirm that it is a phoenix club. The new club is replacing the former club, it is continuing on with the same traditions, the logos are similar, they are playing at the same ground, many former people involved with the club are also involved with the new club and the playing uniforms are remaining similar. North Ferriby F.C. should be added onto this page and it should stay there. Baileymorecroft ( talk) 11:11, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Is this not now a list article? Govvy ( talk) 19:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Humour me. The edit warring anon from Ilford has elected to discuss the Wimbledon issue everywhere but not here, so what's the underlying issue? Is there any merit to the argument the editor is making: the original Wimbledon club still operates as MK Dons? Walter Görlitz ( talk) 23:32, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Would the Montreal Impact (1992–2011) and CF Montréal teams be considered phoenix clubs of the Montreal Supra? RedBlueGreen93 ( talk) 03:01, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
How exactly is this a Phoenix club? The impact were effectively promoted up to MLS from USL. The badge reads 1993 for god’s sake. 70.54.116.29 ( talk) 16:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 6 September 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Phoenix club (sports) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The present revision of the article (as of 1 January 2015, permanent link here) includes the claim that Milton Keynes Dons F.C. are a phoenix club of Wimbledon F.C.. I tagged this as requiring sources to back it up and references were added—however, although the links in question illustrate the connection between Wimbledon FC and MK Dons in terms of League registration and so forth (as described amply in our Relocation of Wimbledon F.C. to Milton Keynes article), not one of them uses "phoenix club" or any similar term to refer to MK Dons (a few of the links provided to back up the claim do include the phrase, but only in reference to AFC Wimbledon). I can't help thinking that in the absence of reliable sources directly backing up this article's description of MK Dons as a phoenix club, our inclusion of it is original research. — Cliftonian (talk) 17:15, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Phoenix clubs - refer to a club that is set up to replace a football club's parent company but that wants to run the club and keep the team in competition In some cases, phoenix clubs will retain the name of the club which they replaced, implying a continuation from the former team. In other cases, name changes occur, many of them due to proprietorial ownership existing on the old club's name
Everything you described is contradictory in itself.
Which bit of this MK DONS do not fit?
Then why is the founding date 2004 and not 1889? Why are the trophies now with Merton Council not the real WFC? why are there 2 seperate articles in this case Wimbledon F.C. and MK Dons? Abcmaxx ( talk) 18:46, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah they were forced to give back their trophies, but the MK Dons legally are not allowed to refer to any history before 2004 as themselves. Also I fail to see why Wellington Phoenix are a phoenix club of New Zealand Knights FC but MK Dons aren't of WFC. Abcmaxx ( talk) 18:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
That was exactly my point. I still fail to see how they are not a phoenix club, seeing as like you say, the 2004 date is of significant relevance. It may not be a "traditional" phoenix club but it still satisfies all the criteria Abcmaxx ( talk) 19:27, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Your last sentence is the most POV statement I've heard so far - AFC Wimbledon are far more of a phoenix club than MK Dons are. that's original research too fed by your own biased emotions. In what way AFC are more or less a phoenix than let's say Enfield Town? Or 1874 Northwich? And showing that MKD fans think they are WFC's continuators is a FACT hence why it's backed up by reliable sources - whether you like it, agree with it or makes your blood boil or not, it's a stone-cold hard-faced fact Abcmaxx ( talk) 00:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Looking at the examples given in the article, Leeds U and G Rangers and comparing: WFC went into administration but not formally bankrupt [though the taxman wrote off their debts], InterMK bought the business as a more-or-less going concern and relaunched albeit with a modified (but not totally different) name. The badge had to be changed anyway because of the College of Arms ruling and to recognise its new base. If it had happened a year later, they'd have had at least the 15 point deduction. If the rescue had happened in West London rather than MK, nobody would be arguing - be honest, its another proxy for the relocation argument. MKD Ltd is the lawful successor of WFC Ltd, as much as are GR and LU: the 2004 break is simply a fiction that was created pragmatically to end the boycott. So MKD certainly fits the definition of a Pheonix club - no way is it bollocks. However there remains the problem of lack of an external source to cite. To my mind, that is the only obstacle to its being listed - and if people start adding every other club that has been in and out of administration then absolutly MKD should be there too. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 20:37, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
So I'm guessing MK DONS fans opinion doesn't count again, what do they think? They are a common set supporters too. As long as AFC think WFC and themselves are that and the other and a newspaper quotes them, all is hunky dory and the world should think and do whatever they say. Also interesting to see that everyone putting in so much effort into MK Dons NOT being in this article, but I could put in a load of random clubs from other countries completely make them up to be phoenix club and no-one would give a shit. The AFC crusade and hijack continues, and everyone else is following them like blind sheep. No-one cared when I put New Brighton A.F.C. in here nor Jeju United nor FC Seoul in here but MK Dons God forbid if ever there was anything objective or any suggestion that AFC aren't what they say they are. I wonder how many newspapers specifically call Rotherham Town F.C. (1899) a phoenix club of Rotherham Town F.C. (1878) Abcmaxx ( talk) 20:50, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Of course Chesterfield do, because they are regurgitating the self-started myth of AFC = WFC, (and that aside, seeing from their dirty tactics in the FA Cup this year I doubt they are a club which would be advised to look to for any sort of guidance). So what would you consider a phoenix club other than AFC then? How many articles do you think there are on "phoenix clubs"? It's not a popular phrase anyway. My point still stands, as long as the sainthood of AFC is preserved no-one really gives a toss about the other clubs. No-one seemed to be interested in this article at all until the Dons were mentioned. A dictionary definition of a phoenix is a person or thing that has become renewed or restored after suffering calamity or apparent annihilation. WFC has certainly been anhillated, and the MK Dons certainly restored and renewed order. I don't see why a some AFC-sympathising columnist in the Guardian or another newspaper is a reliable source but actual facts and the opinions of thousands of Dons fans are invalid. Moreover the concept of refounding a club under the same or similar name to continue a defunct clubs traditions has always existed - it just wasn't named as such Abcmaxx ( talk) 23:27, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I think we've got the definition of a phoenix club wrong. Surely a phoenix club is one set up after a previous club is forced into closure, rather than any club that simply replaces another? Taking the case of Football Kingz FC's disestablishment and the formation of New Zealand Knights FC, the latter makes no attempt to carry on the "spirit" of the old club, they simply carried on with a similar group of executives in charge and took Football Kingz FC's place in the Australian National Soccer League. AFC Wimbledon, however, is a phoenix club because they were set up to replace Wimbledon FC and carry on their "spirit" after they moved to Milton Keynes and became the Milton Keynes Dons; they've even got a similar badge. Obviously this definition would need to be backed up by reliable sources, since I'm really just spitballing ideas, but it seems to me that User:Abcmaxx is adding clubs to this list under a misguided idea of what a phoenix club actually is. – Pee Jay 20:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
You just did it again! I feel like I'm going insane! If they are a literal continuation they cannot not claim to share the old club's history. How can you be a continuation of something you can't claim to be? Abcmaxx ( talk) 00:21, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
There's evidence of reliable sources of MKD assuming continuity of WFC and them not being the same club. It's pretty simple really. I know that AFC are holier than thou and can do no wrong and are the phoenix club of all phoenix club's but you still haven't done a single thing to what would be any legitimate criteria for establishing a phoenix club other than "if it's not like AFC, it's not a phoenix club" Abcmaxx ( talk) 01:28, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Is it interesting, is it not, that 250 edits ago this article began with the simple clear statement The term "phoenix club" is given to football clubs that are created following the demise of an existing club. It is usual for the phoenix club to be created and supported by the supporters of the club which has ended.. In the meantime, however, the lede has been munged so that it now reads (in summary) "a phoenix club 'means whatever I want it to mean, no more and no less'" (Alice in Wonderland) but specifically framed such that AFCW is to be included but MKD is to be excluded. Bias, what bias? So let's see: does anybody object if I reinstate the original, NPOV, text? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 00:19, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess the voice MK Dons fans is irrelevant again then I take it. Just because the majority of fans bum-lick AFC and consider them the holiest and the most tragically hard done-by victims ever to have suffered in the history of football in this life and the next, thanks to evil spawn of satan that are the MK fans who "robbed", "slaughtered", "massacred" their beloved Wimbledon F.C. where millions of fans flocked to week in week out in the holy circle known as the "acceptable 20-mile radius" around the clubs namesake region of London (Merton being synonymous with Wimbledon) does not make it balanced point of view. Abcmaxx ( talk) 02:05, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
@ Abcmaxx: Do you intend to add sources to any of the clubs you have added to this list? At the minute, it seems like you're just adding any old club that seems to fit your interpretation of what a phoenix club is. This being Wikipedia, where the policy is verifiability, you should probably add some sources that say the clubs you've added are actually considered phoenix clubs, because your opinion of what constitutes a phoenix club is not sufficient. Without those sources, this article may need to be gutted. – Pee Jay 11:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Per wp:be bold, I have changed the section footnote style from numbers to letters. I did this to better distinguish footnotes from citations. I believe this is an improvement but felt I should note it here in case anyone wishes to debate it. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 00:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
After seeing some discussions around this page on several users talk pages, it was quite clear that this list was in a mess, full of unreferenced and questionable "Phoenix Clubs". I have gone through the list and made the following changes:
I could go on... I think it would be best if in future, regardless of the level of citation provided in the club articles, that no additions are made to this list without also adding a clear reference. I have performed most of these edits individually so it should be easy to review the history for specific ones (which should be listed in reverse alphabetical order geographically) and revert if a reference can be provided. Fenix down ( talk) 17:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
If someone cannot see that e.g. FC Chernomorets Burgas and PSFC Chernomorets Burgas, which are almost identical in every way and one was founded after the other by its fans; or HNK Dubrovnik 1919 and HNK Dubrovnik; or FK Bashkimi (1947–2008) and FK Bashkimi (2011), who even have the exact same name; or my favourite, seeing as most the "editors" are English Salisbury City F.C. and Salisbury F.C.; are phoenix clubs, or even better FC Etar 1924 Veliko Tarnovo and OFC Etar Veliko Tarnovo are phoneix clubs but the 1 other reincarnation isn't;, then I have serious questions as to what kind of ridiculous set of principles is applied here. Abcmaxx ( talk) 21:26, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Surely AFC Wimbledon should be categorised as a "replacement" club. They were established to tap the small remaining market of a club which saw better commercial opportunities elsewhere and continues to exist in its rebranded form. 2.220.161.220 ( talk) 12:15, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Some sound observations have been made here. It's probably also worth noting that they have never played in the area they purport to represent and the prospect of doing so appears fairly remote. 2.223.192.2 ( talk) 12:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
On a much larger scale, I don't think anyone ever suggested that the 1961 Washington Senators were a phoenix club although the circumstances seem uncannily similar. 2.125.14.100 ( talk) 12:47, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
What could be more reliable than the facts ? Remarkably, you've managed to agree with and contradict yourself without realising - I'm sure the other Wikicrats will award a prize for such devotion once they've pulled their pants back up !! 2.216.66.254 ( talk) 15:58, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Going by the description of what a "Phoenix Club" is then Rangers must be surely ? The oldco Rangers club where liquidated, end of - no argument The assets where sold to a newco -again - no argument The newco began life at the bottom of Scottish football - no argument All players of the oldco could leave or opt to continue with newco.. You cannot get away from the definition of what is a new club and what is not simply because they where a massive instituation, I fully understand and sympathise with Rangers fans, I get its very very difficult for them to accept, but the legal aspect has been clearly lost now I expect smoke n mirrors and arguments to sway away from the truth, but any person who looks objectively at the situation from a non biased pov knows Rangers are a Pheonix club, theres no doubt about it whatsoever, unless your blind to the facts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.70.250 ( talk) 18:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
North Ferriby F.C. has been added to the page but then removed many times. Some people claim that only the town name is the same but the club themselves and the supporters claim that it is a phoenix club. It is a recognised club by the FA and all sources confirm that it is a phoenix club. The new club is replacing the former club, it is continuing on with the same traditions, the logos are similar, they are playing at the same ground, many former people involved with the club are also involved with the new club and the playing uniforms are remaining similar. North Ferriby F.C. should be added onto this page and it should stay there. Baileymorecroft ( talk) 11:11, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Is this not now a list article? Govvy ( talk) 19:49, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Humour me. The edit warring anon from Ilford has elected to discuss the Wimbledon issue everywhere but not here, so what's the underlying issue? Is there any merit to the argument the editor is making: the original Wimbledon club still operates as MK Dons? Walter Görlitz ( talk) 23:32, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Would the Montreal Impact (1992–2011) and CF Montréal teams be considered phoenix clubs of the Montreal Supra? RedBlueGreen93 ( talk) 03:01, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
How exactly is this a Phoenix club? The impact were effectively promoted up to MLS from USL. The badge reads 1993 for god’s sake. 70.54.116.29 ( talk) 16:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)