![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Does this page render incorrectly for anyone else? I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.1 Alvis 06:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
While I don't dispute the origins of phenothiazines as insecticides, a fair amount of the introductory material discusses its toxic effects in a manner not directly relevant to clinial use of phenothiazines. Andrew73 13:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC) After reading the war of words written above,one of you want to make the phenothiazine class of drugs a god send.And the other other wants to point out the real truth about the damage that phenothiazine class of drugs has done to the millions of the mentally ill who have been forced to take this chemical LOBOTOMY.I have bipolar disorder and while first being misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia, I was forced to take 3 of them at the same time.
Stelazine,Thorazine and Mellaril.which in 1 week sent me into the greatest depression that that I have ever been in and I became suicidal.These drugs took away my free will and my personality.In short they sent me straight to hell.I became a mindless Zombie.And I am a Aircraft Engineer and I could not add 2+2 You two can argue all you want about the chemical history of this class of drugs.But neither one of you have had to survive taking this poison.
I stumbled into this article by accident while trying to decide if I wanted to take Promethazine for nausea.I also have been given Compazine for nausea by IV with out my knowledge.Within 5 minutes I was pulling the IV out and climping the walls with the only panic attack that I have ever had. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WNBCK ( talk • contribs) 23:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
User:Dr CareBear, please provide verifiable sources for your edits, as some are factually utterly incorrect. Here you insert a paragraph about the side-effects of acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. However, phenothiazines not only are not acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, but have anticholinergic properties rather than pro-cholinergic properties. It would be easier to keep utterly incorrect information out of the article if you could properly source your edits. This is not a new problem and you're skirting an indefinite block for disruption at the moment. MastCell Talk 03:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Why do you choose to go on an edit war with me MastCell? Do you live online? You constantly revert what ever it is I add to an article. If you read up on Phenothiazine yourself you will see that it has ANTICHOLONERIC BLOCKING EFFECTS. This is not the same thing as ANTICHOLONERIC EFFECTS. It does block the breakdown of acytclecholine which is exactly why it is effective as an insecticide.
Need a reference that these drugs are ANTICHOLONERIC BLOCKING? "Facts and Comparisons" III W. Port Plaza, Suite 300 St. Louis MO. USA 63146-3098 (telephone 314-216-2100 or 1-800-223-0554). The updatable section called "Antipsychotic Agents" is (c)1990
It is you who are in error. You suceeded in getting me blocked for "sockpuppetry" by soliciting someone to block me for you. I am new to Wikipedia and not familiar with "policies". The harsh draconian measures you imploy are to me disruptive. I did not even get a warning for sockpuppetry but rather an automatic block. This is counterproductive to a friendly Wikipedia enviroment when users such as yourself go on the offensive an try to discourage and chase new people such as me out of the Wikipedia.
As for Phenothiazine being an industrial chemical ample evidence of this can be found on the United States Enviromental Protection Agency WebSite and I will be getting a refernce for you that it is used as an additive in the manufacture of rubber tires. Phenothiazine is an enviromental toxin of concern to the Enviromental Protection Agency. An entire subdivision had to be relocated because the soil was contaminated with Phenothiazine among other things. Most material in the articles on antipsychotic drugs are not sourced with references and singaling me out to provide a reference for everything new added seems to be quite unfair. But I will get you references on phenothiazine as you request. It is an idustrial chemical and still is. Dr CareBear 04:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Dr CareBear 07:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I will not talk about you to other users covertly and try to conceal the fact that I have such as you do. I posted a message on DavidRuben's talk page under yours. You did not even show me the curtesy that you are solicity other's to join you in your campain againt me. This is meatpuppetry. You are soliciting DavidRuben to sway the Phenothiazine article to your favor. Since I am new to Wikipedia and I am not an Admin I do not even know how to go about going through the proper channels to report you as soliciting meatpuppets. You could have shown me the curtesy telling me you were soliciting DavidRuben to join you. I hope David will read what I posted above that proves you do not know the difference between anticholonergic blocking and anticholonergic. You are confused. Dr CareBear 08:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
MastCell. See this. This is the akathisia treatment suggested in the Pimozide article. The treatment of Akathisia which is the result of two much acetylcholine is anticholonergic drugs. I can personally testify that Clonopin and anticholonergic drug is very effective in eliminating akathisia. The Pimozide article under side effects states: "Akathisia can sometimes be treated with anticholinergic drugs (mainly benztropine), beta blockers or benzodiazepines, particularly clonazepam (Klonopin). Unfortunately, in many cases this side effect can be so intense that even large doses of these drugs are unable to counter it, and often is so extreme that self-destructive behaviour, including attempting suicide, may occur." These drugs above are anticholonergic. Phenothiazine is NOT anticholonergic. It is anticholonergic blocking in that it inhibits acetylcholinesterase. Dr CareBear 11:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
OK, in the interest of heading off any more unsourced rants, let me do some of your homework. Let's look at the following:
If we want to include a section on the pharmacology of phenothiazines, then I have no problem with noting that they have been found to have both anticholinergic and cholinesterase-inhibiting effects, and that the latter may correlate with the development of extrapyramidal side effects. I'm still not clear on why the push to emphasize insecticides and akathisia - am I missing something? Also, please read the verifiability policy: you will have a much easier time if you can provide a verifiable source (e.g. PubMed ID), interpreted properly, to support your contentions at the time you make them, instead of inserting unsourced material. MastCell Talk 18:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
additional information. anticholinesterase agent is an agent that inhibits acetylcholinesterase (AChE). Isn't it obvious? Dr CareBear 11:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
The fact is that Phenothiazine is an insecticide just as Carbamates are. That has already been established. It has already been established that Phenothiazine inhibits acetylcholinesterase just as Carbamate insecticides do. Whether or not Phenothiazine is a Carbamate is a really mute point since they both kill insects by the same method although it would be nice to establish once and for all whether or not Phenothiazine is a Carbamate. Do you know how to access the entire article online for PubMed and not just the abstract?
You know what's really funny? The very people that would defend these drugs as being "safe and effective" would never ever take them themselves. That is really sad. I don't have plans to "POV push" on the Phenothiazine article but rather just present facts and then let the reader make their own conclusions. It is not "POV pushing" to provide a section describing the neurological effects of Phenothiazine insecticide exposure. Then provide a seperate section on neurological side effects of Phenothiazine drugs without making a direct connection in the article suggesting to the reader on how they "should think" but rather let them make their own conclusions by examing the facts. That would not be POV-pushing. Dr CareBear 05:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
That is not it at all MASTCELL. You misinterpreted me. I was asking you for help. I was asking you if you knew how to access the entire article and not just the abstract because I do not know how to do it. I was asking you to help me so that I will know how to access the entire article. I want to read the article that brought up a reference to Carbamates with the keywords of "insecticide" and "phenothiazine". I am sorry you thought I was accussing you of not knowing how to use PubMed. You obviously know more about how to use it then me that is why I was asking you for help. Dr CareBear 02:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I apologize. I did misunderstand you there, and I'm sorry. As to accessing the full text, it depends. Some articles have free full text available; if this is the case, there will be an icon on the PubMed abstract page, in the middle-upper right, saying "full text". Many articles, however, do not have the full text available for free - only the abstract. If the full text is not available free online, then unforutunately the only way to dig it up is to access a medical library. If you have online member access to a journal (or to a medical library) you can try that; otherwise it may be necessary to physically go to a medical library, find the journal issue, and photocopy it. MastCell Talk 06:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The current space-filling model, Image:Phenothiazine3d.png, is misleading because it shows phenothiazine as a planar molecule, when in fact it is puckered.
See the X-ray crystal structure for details.
I will try to provide a new image based on this paper ASAP.
Ben ( talk) 00:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
there's a need for improval in this artical. it need mechanism of action, receptors of this drug... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kooladi99 ( talk • contribs) 11:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Could someone add pipamazine (Mornidine) to wikipedia. It is a phenothiazine, http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/summary/99/4/534 It was withdrawn from the market by the FDA for hepatic lesions in the 60's. There's a Mornidine ad that is readily found by searching Google but no information in wikipedia. SomeNumpty ( talk) 19:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Triavil redirects to this page. This seems inaccurate for two reasons:
1. Triavil is not a single drug, but two drugs combined into one pill.
2. The two drugs are Amitriptyline and Perphenazine, not Phenothiazine, according to every other resource I can find on the internet.
Perhaps someone who knows how to fix such things can fix this. -- The one and only Pj ( talk) 06:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Jytdog, I receive your edit war warning. I would like to let you know that the Phenothiazine could possibly trigger antiphospholipid syndrome as described in the session "Other clinical associations" aPL(Antiphospholipid) antibodies are also found in association with phenothiazines, such as described in Antiphospholipid Syndrome Antiphospholipid Syndrome among in the original link i posted to the article Liwk ( talk) 08:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This article is, overall, a mess. It confuses the compound itself, with the many compounds that include this structure and does so in a sloppy way. The first sentence "Phenothiazine is an organic compound that occurs in various antipsychotic and antihistaminic drugs." is just ... oy. Medicinal chemistry doesn't work that way... this article needs a dramatic overhaul. Which I will get cracking on.... Jytdog ( talk) 16:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
It shows the history that some were thinking psychiatric symptoms had to do with a root cause possibly in anywhere else but the brain. Then it shows the hospital + pharmabiz together wanted "stronger sedative and soothing effect"'s (as read between the lines) instead of actually doing anything to figure out whether the patient has some real issues that might cause the psychiatric symptoms. Isn't it obvious that only a simpleton would think that behavior is all in the brain? There's at least one book if not many from hundred years ago that link food and environment to behavior. Clearly the "brightest minds" have always known this but lets think about it like this: One author had written a book suggesting some people have brain suited to farming activities and others to hunting. Didn't mention gathering (suppose that is common to both to some degree). So if all wild lands are replaced with farms and people placed in unusual setting (office all day long), there could be some issues with adaptation. Who needs farmers? Governments and their fake eCONomy that want slaves in ever increasing numbers. Same folks also are leading oil and plastic waste polluters by pandering to low or no standards that free trade involves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.18.161 ( talk) 15:00, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Does this page render incorrectly for anyone else? I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.1 Alvis 06:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
While I don't dispute the origins of phenothiazines as insecticides, a fair amount of the introductory material discusses its toxic effects in a manner not directly relevant to clinial use of phenothiazines. Andrew73 13:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC) After reading the war of words written above,one of you want to make the phenothiazine class of drugs a god send.And the other other wants to point out the real truth about the damage that phenothiazine class of drugs has done to the millions of the mentally ill who have been forced to take this chemical LOBOTOMY.I have bipolar disorder and while first being misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia, I was forced to take 3 of them at the same time.
Stelazine,Thorazine and Mellaril.which in 1 week sent me into the greatest depression that that I have ever been in and I became suicidal.These drugs took away my free will and my personality.In short they sent me straight to hell.I became a mindless Zombie.And I am a Aircraft Engineer and I could not add 2+2 You two can argue all you want about the chemical history of this class of drugs.But neither one of you have had to survive taking this poison.
I stumbled into this article by accident while trying to decide if I wanted to take Promethazine for nausea.I also have been given Compazine for nausea by IV with out my knowledge.Within 5 minutes I was pulling the IV out and climping the walls with the only panic attack that I have ever had. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WNBCK ( talk • contribs) 23:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
User:Dr CareBear, please provide verifiable sources for your edits, as some are factually utterly incorrect. Here you insert a paragraph about the side-effects of acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. However, phenothiazines not only are not acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, but have anticholinergic properties rather than pro-cholinergic properties. It would be easier to keep utterly incorrect information out of the article if you could properly source your edits. This is not a new problem and you're skirting an indefinite block for disruption at the moment. MastCell Talk 03:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Why do you choose to go on an edit war with me MastCell? Do you live online? You constantly revert what ever it is I add to an article. If you read up on Phenothiazine yourself you will see that it has ANTICHOLONERIC BLOCKING EFFECTS. This is not the same thing as ANTICHOLONERIC EFFECTS. It does block the breakdown of acytclecholine which is exactly why it is effective as an insecticide.
Need a reference that these drugs are ANTICHOLONERIC BLOCKING? "Facts and Comparisons" III W. Port Plaza, Suite 300 St. Louis MO. USA 63146-3098 (telephone 314-216-2100 or 1-800-223-0554). The updatable section called "Antipsychotic Agents" is (c)1990
It is you who are in error. You suceeded in getting me blocked for "sockpuppetry" by soliciting someone to block me for you. I am new to Wikipedia and not familiar with "policies". The harsh draconian measures you imploy are to me disruptive. I did not even get a warning for sockpuppetry but rather an automatic block. This is counterproductive to a friendly Wikipedia enviroment when users such as yourself go on the offensive an try to discourage and chase new people such as me out of the Wikipedia.
As for Phenothiazine being an industrial chemical ample evidence of this can be found on the United States Enviromental Protection Agency WebSite and I will be getting a refernce for you that it is used as an additive in the manufacture of rubber tires. Phenothiazine is an enviromental toxin of concern to the Enviromental Protection Agency. An entire subdivision had to be relocated because the soil was contaminated with Phenothiazine among other things. Most material in the articles on antipsychotic drugs are not sourced with references and singaling me out to provide a reference for everything new added seems to be quite unfair. But I will get you references on phenothiazine as you request. It is an idustrial chemical and still is. Dr CareBear 04:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Dr CareBear 07:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I will not talk about you to other users covertly and try to conceal the fact that I have such as you do. I posted a message on DavidRuben's talk page under yours. You did not even show me the curtesy that you are solicity other's to join you in your campain againt me. This is meatpuppetry. You are soliciting DavidRuben to sway the Phenothiazine article to your favor. Since I am new to Wikipedia and I am not an Admin I do not even know how to go about going through the proper channels to report you as soliciting meatpuppets. You could have shown me the curtesy telling me you were soliciting DavidRuben to join you. I hope David will read what I posted above that proves you do not know the difference between anticholonergic blocking and anticholonergic. You are confused. Dr CareBear 08:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
MastCell. See this. This is the akathisia treatment suggested in the Pimozide article. The treatment of Akathisia which is the result of two much acetylcholine is anticholonergic drugs. I can personally testify that Clonopin and anticholonergic drug is very effective in eliminating akathisia. The Pimozide article under side effects states: "Akathisia can sometimes be treated with anticholinergic drugs (mainly benztropine), beta blockers or benzodiazepines, particularly clonazepam (Klonopin). Unfortunately, in many cases this side effect can be so intense that even large doses of these drugs are unable to counter it, and often is so extreme that self-destructive behaviour, including attempting suicide, may occur." These drugs above are anticholonergic. Phenothiazine is NOT anticholonergic. It is anticholonergic blocking in that it inhibits acetylcholinesterase. Dr CareBear 11:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
OK, in the interest of heading off any more unsourced rants, let me do some of your homework. Let's look at the following:
If we want to include a section on the pharmacology of phenothiazines, then I have no problem with noting that they have been found to have both anticholinergic and cholinesterase-inhibiting effects, and that the latter may correlate with the development of extrapyramidal side effects. I'm still not clear on why the push to emphasize insecticides and akathisia - am I missing something? Also, please read the verifiability policy: you will have a much easier time if you can provide a verifiable source (e.g. PubMed ID), interpreted properly, to support your contentions at the time you make them, instead of inserting unsourced material. MastCell Talk 18:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
additional information. anticholinesterase agent is an agent that inhibits acetylcholinesterase (AChE). Isn't it obvious? Dr CareBear 11:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
The fact is that Phenothiazine is an insecticide just as Carbamates are. That has already been established. It has already been established that Phenothiazine inhibits acetylcholinesterase just as Carbamate insecticides do. Whether or not Phenothiazine is a Carbamate is a really mute point since they both kill insects by the same method although it would be nice to establish once and for all whether or not Phenothiazine is a Carbamate. Do you know how to access the entire article online for PubMed and not just the abstract?
You know what's really funny? The very people that would defend these drugs as being "safe and effective" would never ever take them themselves. That is really sad. I don't have plans to "POV push" on the Phenothiazine article but rather just present facts and then let the reader make their own conclusions. It is not "POV pushing" to provide a section describing the neurological effects of Phenothiazine insecticide exposure. Then provide a seperate section on neurological side effects of Phenothiazine drugs without making a direct connection in the article suggesting to the reader on how they "should think" but rather let them make their own conclusions by examing the facts. That would not be POV-pushing. Dr CareBear 05:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
That is not it at all MASTCELL. You misinterpreted me. I was asking you for help. I was asking you if you knew how to access the entire article and not just the abstract because I do not know how to do it. I was asking you to help me so that I will know how to access the entire article. I want to read the article that brought up a reference to Carbamates with the keywords of "insecticide" and "phenothiazine". I am sorry you thought I was accussing you of not knowing how to use PubMed. You obviously know more about how to use it then me that is why I was asking you for help. Dr CareBear 02:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I apologize. I did misunderstand you there, and I'm sorry. As to accessing the full text, it depends. Some articles have free full text available; if this is the case, there will be an icon on the PubMed abstract page, in the middle-upper right, saying "full text". Many articles, however, do not have the full text available for free - only the abstract. If the full text is not available free online, then unforutunately the only way to dig it up is to access a medical library. If you have online member access to a journal (or to a medical library) you can try that; otherwise it may be necessary to physically go to a medical library, find the journal issue, and photocopy it. MastCell Talk 06:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The current space-filling model, Image:Phenothiazine3d.png, is misleading because it shows phenothiazine as a planar molecule, when in fact it is puckered.
See the X-ray crystal structure for details.
I will try to provide a new image based on this paper ASAP.
Ben ( talk) 00:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
there's a need for improval in this artical. it need mechanism of action, receptors of this drug... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kooladi99 ( talk • contribs) 11:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Could someone add pipamazine (Mornidine) to wikipedia. It is a phenothiazine, http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/summary/99/4/534 It was withdrawn from the market by the FDA for hepatic lesions in the 60's. There's a Mornidine ad that is readily found by searching Google but no information in wikipedia. SomeNumpty ( talk) 19:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Triavil redirects to this page. This seems inaccurate for two reasons:
1. Triavil is not a single drug, but two drugs combined into one pill.
2. The two drugs are Amitriptyline and Perphenazine, not Phenothiazine, according to every other resource I can find on the internet.
Perhaps someone who knows how to fix such things can fix this. -- The one and only Pj ( talk) 06:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Jytdog, I receive your edit war warning. I would like to let you know that the Phenothiazine could possibly trigger antiphospholipid syndrome as described in the session "Other clinical associations" aPL(Antiphospholipid) antibodies are also found in association with phenothiazines, such as described in Antiphospholipid Syndrome Antiphospholipid Syndrome among in the original link i posted to the article Liwk ( talk) 08:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
This article is, overall, a mess. It confuses the compound itself, with the many compounds that include this structure and does so in a sloppy way. The first sentence "Phenothiazine is an organic compound that occurs in various antipsychotic and antihistaminic drugs." is just ... oy. Medicinal chemistry doesn't work that way... this article needs a dramatic overhaul. Which I will get cracking on.... Jytdog ( talk) 16:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
It shows the history that some were thinking psychiatric symptoms had to do with a root cause possibly in anywhere else but the brain. Then it shows the hospital + pharmabiz together wanted "stronger sedative and soothing effect"'s (as read between the lines) instead of actually doing anything to figure out whether the patient has some real issues that might cause the psychiatric symptoms. Isn't it obvious that only a simpleton would think that behavior is all in the brain? There's at least one book if not many from hundred years ago that link food and environment to behavior. Clearly the "brightest minds" have always known this but lets think about it like this: One author had written a book suggesting some people have brain suited to farming activities and others to hunting. Didn't mention gathering (suppose that is common to both to some degree). So if all wild lands are replaced with farms and people placed in unusual setting (office all day long), there could be some issues with adaptation. Who needs farmers? Governments and their fake eCONomy that want slaves in ever increasing numbers. Same folks also are leading oil and plastic waste polluters by pandering to low or no standards that free trade involves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.18.161 ( talk) 15:00, 29 November 2018 (UTC)