This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This is a misrepresentation. If the point of this statement was about Njegos' religion, it should say "Eastern Orthodox," or "Christian Orthodox." There is no such religion as "Serbian Orthodox." This can also be viewed as a weak attempt to nationally relabel Njegos and as such should be removed. Let's try to keep politics and ultra-nationalism out of this article, shall we? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.77.4.129 ( talk) 14:04, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Serbian Orthodox does exist, as does Russian, Greek, Albanian, Bulgarian and so on. It is not "Political" but the statement of Njegos himself.
dzaja (
talk) 21:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)dzajic90
Njegos considered himself as SERB! All his poetry and works are ABOUT SERBS! Serbs live in Montenewgro and speak Serbian language! All family names are Serbian! In communist time Serbo-croatian/Montenegrian/Bosniac languages were invented and are still USED HERE in this article! Montenegrins is used instead Serbian! THIS IS real MANIPULATION. Did Vatican's Jesuits work on this article? From their hidden caves?
E, ne bi smelo tako da se premesta. Ako niko nema nista protiv, postavicu zahtev za "pravim" premestanjem clanka na ovu adresu. Nikola 22:13, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
According to page 838 of the Shorter OED, episcope refers either to "An optical projector giving images of opaque object" or to the "pastoral supervision exercised by a bishop". I don't get why we don't just use "bishop", because that's a correct translation, and the one most English speakers would recognise. -- estavisti 13:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Please either translate the Serbian text into English (since this is English Wiki) or remove it because it only takes up space and does not provide any information for those who don't speak Serbian. In general I also don't think that quotes of Njeguš actually fit the style and purpose of encyclopedia, so I would suggest rephrasing them or ommitting them altogether. Bezvardis 14:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
--- --- This article really needs some clean up. 25 august 2006
Working on it. Sideshow Bob 00:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
the following was removed since in 1830 Republic of Venice wasn't on Earth anymore, since it was dissolved in 1795!
On 22 November 1830, Prince-Bishop Rade wrote a letter to Jeremija Gagić regarding the Governor's rebellion:
I think it's better to ask montenegro history experts for an interpretation of this letter.
93.35.149.103 ( talk) 22:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
First thing, ther are no sources Njegoš was a Serb, they consider him Serbian writer for no good reason. He wrote in
Montenegrin language and was, by his nationality, a
Montengrin.
Answer - have you ever read enything from Njegos? - he wrote only about Serbs and considered himself as a Serb! There is no such thing as montenegrian language - serbian is montenegrian, 100%! Why such lies? HALO WIKIPEDIA PEOPLE - EHY DO YOU ALLOW SUCH LIES TO BE PUBLISH HERE? JUSITS' WORK TO SPLIT SERBIAN / SLAVIC BROTHERS?
Thing wich needs to be explain here, what is nationality, well, "Nationality is membership of a nation or sovereign state." Since Montenegro was an independent state during Njegoš's rule, he is a Montenegrin. It is so disputed that he was a Serb and at the same time, ruler of Montenegro.
Second thing, he was a leader of Montenegrin Orthodox Church not Serbian, since a Montenegrin O. Church existef far before 1990. Well, in 1766, after Pećinska Patriarchy was dissolved, Montenegrin Church becomed autocephalous church of Montenegrin State. And, what I can also say about this, ther are no connection with Serbian Orthodox Church.
Notice, Petar Petrović Njegoš wore white klobuk, and according to Canon law, only leaders of autocephalous churches may wore white klobuk.
Reference, if you don't bealive me :D - Susherin, Ivan Kornilevich. From peasant to patriarch, p. 188. ISBN 978-0-7391-1579-4 ; ther, find word klobuk and explanation.
For now...
--
Wusten
fuchs 19:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Well, even though it's not whole turth you said, I'll turn to nationality, he is, by his nationality a Montenegrin. Since is very late, and I don't have will to search books at this time, we'll discuss about Montenegrin/Serbian Orthodox Church later. Do not change nationality. He is a Montenegrin.--
Wusten
fuchs 21:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC) Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Ok, now, see this image
here? It's a Constitution of Montenegro, writen in 1905. You can clearly see it says that Montenegrin Orthodox Church is autocephalous. This crushes your own claim that it was established in 1990-is. And now, we have a problem here. It's not important was this church recognized by other Orthodox Churches, but what is important it's a status of this church in it's state. And it was autocephalous, after Pećinska Patriarchy was dissolved, Montenegrin Orthodox Church becomed autocephalous in 1766.--
Wusten
fuchs 18:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Oh, not important, I don't whant to repeat same thing over and over, we leave church out of this :D Let me back to nationality. First, are you aware what word
Nation means? Well, I'll qoute: "Contemporary definitions of the word Nation often focus on the idea of a country or sovereign state." Ok, let us go to the
nationality, " Nationality is membership of a nation or sovereign state.". And let us to compae this with Njegoš.
Nation often focus on the idea of a country or sovereign state, in this case, Theocratic Montenegro, wich was an independent state ruled by Vladika that is Prince-Bishop of Montenegro. Njegoš's nationality is, acording to a definition of nationality, Montenegrin because he is a member of Montenegrin nation and Montenegrin sovereign state.--
Wusten
fuchs 21:15, 10 April 2011 (UTC)Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Is the spelling of "psudo" here from a source or for a spcific reason, as it is normally spelled "Pseudo" in English. Fainites barley scribs 17:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
That should have been pseudo. However, the title of the work is usually translated as The False Tsar Stephen the Small, so I'll correct it. Vladimir ( talk) 15:27, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Can administrators please, stop the writing Montenegrin history on "Great Serbia" political ideology and respect history of Montenegro and montenegrins. The nationality of Petrović noble house was Vlach and not Serbian. You can see here:
http://www.madeinmontenegro.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=63
Sincerly, -- 84.255.193.151 ( talk) 19:38, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
First read: Wikipedia's Mountain Wreath before quoting the unscholarly comments of Srdja Pavlović, Sells, quoting The New York Times (27 July 2008) and other newspapers and using references from questionable sources..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.117.246 ( talk • contribs) 05:41, 14 November 2012
The man's nationality is not in question. Everyone admits that he was Montenegrin (i.e. from Montenegro.) However, some IPs hold the bizarre assertion that he was not an ethnic Serb. Before coming here and screaming about how this page is rampant with "Serbian nationalism" or that "Njegos himself said he was not a Serb...look at madeinmontenegro.com...", read the academic sources cited in this article and then tell me that Njegos was not ethnically Serb. Also, read some of his works (i.e. The Mountain Wreath and The Serbian Mirror). 23 editor ( talk) 18:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Njegos was a member of Montenegrin ruling dynasty Petrovic, and both him and his predecessors and successors were ethnic Montenegrins, and not foreigners like some users are falsly claiming.
In addition, the statement that he belonged to Serbian Orthodox Church is also false, he was the head of autonomous Montenegrin church called, in native tongue, "Cetinjska Mitropolija", which became part of Serbian Orthodox Church in 1918 after Montenegro had been annexed to Serbia, therefore after Njegos' time.
Djilas writes: "Njegoš never signed himself Radivoje, his real name and its common form, but rather Radivoj. Someone, perhaps Sarajlija, must have told him that it was more correct and more beautiful." I would ask anyone thinking of reverting to Radivoj to please refrain from doing so. 23 editor ( talk) 01:43, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This is a misrepresentation. If the point of this statement was about Njegos' religion, it should say "Eastern Orthodox," or "Christian Orthodox." There is no such religion as "Serbian Orthodox." This can also be viewed as a weak attempt to nationally relabel Njegos and as such should be removed. Let's try to keep politics and ultra-nationalism out of this article, shall we? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.77.4.129 ( talk) 14:04, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Serbian Orthodox does exist, as does Russian, Greek, Albanian, Bulgarian and so on. It is not "Political" but the statement of Njegos himself.
dzaja (
talk) 21:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)dzajic90
Njegos considered himself as SERB! All his poetry and works are ABOUT SERBS! Serbs live in Montenewgro and speak Serbian language! All family names are Serbian! In communist time Serbo-croatian/Montenegrian/Bosniac languages were invented and are still USED HERE in this article! Montenegrins is used instead Serbian! THIS IS real MANIPULATION. Did Vatican's Jesuits work on this article? From their hidden caves?
E, ne bi smelo tako da se premesta. Ako niko nema nista protiv, postavicu zahtev za "pravim" premestanjem clanka na ovu adresu. Nikola 22:13, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
According to page 838 of the Shorter OED, episcope refers either to "An optical projector giving images of opaque object" or to the "pastoral supervision exercised by a bishop". I don't get why we don't just use "bishop", because that's a correct translation, and the one most English speakers would recognise. -- estavisti 13:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Please either translate the Serbian text into English (since this is English Wiki) or remove it because it only takes up space and does not provide any information for those who don't speak Serbian. In general I also don't think that quotes of Njeguš actually fit the style and purpose of encyclopedia, so I would suggest rephrasing them or ommitting them altogether. Bezvardis 14:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
--- --- This article really needs some clean up. 25 august 2006
Working on it. Sideshow Bob 00:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
the following was removed since in 1830 Republic of Venice wasn't on Earth anymore, since it was dissolved in 1795!
On 22 November 1830, Prince-Bishop Rade wrote a letter to Jeremija Gagić regarding the Governor's rebellion:
I think it's better to ask montenegro history experts for an interpretation of this letter.
93.35.149.103 ( talk) 22:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
First thing, ther are no sources Njegoš was a Serb, they consider him Serbian writer for no good reason. He wrote in
Montenegrin language and was, by his nationality, a
Montengrin.
Answer - have you ever read enything from Njegos? - he wrote only about Serbs and considered himself as a Serb! There is no such thing as montenegrian language - serbian is montenegrian, 100%! Why such lies? HALO WIKIPEDIA PEOPLE - EHY DO YOU ALLOW SUCH LIES TO BE PUBLISH HERE? JUSITS' WORK TO SPLIT SERBIAN / SLAVIC BROTHERS?
Thing wich needs to be explain here, what is nationality, well, "Nationality is membership of a nation or sovereign state." Since Montenegro was an independent state during Njegoš's rule, he is a Montenegrin. It is so disputed that he was a Serb and at the same time, ruler of Montenegro.
Second thing, he was a leader of Montenegrin Orthodox Church not Serbian, since a Montenegrin O. Church existef far before 1990. Well, in 1766, after Pećinska Patriarchy was dissolved, Montenegrin Church becomed autocephalous church of Montenegrin State. And, what I can also say about this, ther are no connection with Serbian Orthodox Church.
Notice, Petar Petrović Njegoš wore white klobuk, and according to Canon law, only leaders of autocephalous churches may wore white klobuk.
Reference, if you don't bealive me :D - Susherin, Ivan Kornilevich. From peasant to patriarch, p. 188. ISBN 978-0-7391-1579-4 ; ther, find word klobuk and explanation.
For now...
--
Wusten
fuchs 19:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Well, even though it's not whole turth you said, I'll turn to nationality, he is, by his nationality a Montenegrin. Since is very late, and I don't have will to search books at this time, we'll discuss about Montenegrin/Serbian Orthodox Church later. Do not change nationality. He is a Montenegrin.--
Wusten
fuchs 21:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC) Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Ok, now, see this image
here? It's a Constitution of Montenegro, writen in 1905. You can clearly see it says that Montenegrin Orthodox Church is autocephalous. This crushes your own claim that it was established in 1990-is. And now, we have a problem here. It's not important was this church recognized by other Orthodox Churches, but what is important it's a status of this church in it's state. And it was autocephalous, after Pećinska Patriarchy was dissolved, Montenegrin Orthodox Church becomed autocephalous in 1766.--
Wusten
fuchs 18:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Oh, not important, I don't whant to repeat same thing over and over, we leave church out of this :D Let me back to nationality. First, are you aware what word
Nation means? Well, I'll qoute: "Contemporary definitions of the word Nation often focus on the idea of a country or sovereign state." Ok, let us go to the
nationality, " Nationality is membership of a nation or sovereign state.". And let us to compae this with Njegoš.
Nation often focus on the idea of a country or sovereign state, in this case, Theocratic Montenegro, wich was an independent state ruled by Vladika that is Prince-Bishop of Montenegro. Njegoš's nationality is, acording to a definition of nationality, Montenegrin because he is a member of Montenegrin nation and Montenegrin sovereign state.--
Wusten
fuchs 21:15, 10 April 2011 (UTC)Blocked sock:
Wustenfuchs
Is the spelling of "psudo" here from a source or for a spcific reason, as it is normally spelled "Pseudo" in English. Fainites barley scribs 17:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
That should have been pseudo. However, the title of the work is usually translated as The False Tsar Stephen the Small, so I'll correct it. Vladimir ( talk) 15:27, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Can administrators please, stop the writing Montenegrin history on "Great Serbia" political ideology and respect history of Montenegro and montenegrins. The nationality of Petrović noble house was Vlach and not Serbian. You can see here:
http://www.madeinmontenegro.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=63
Sincerly, -- 84.255.193.151 ( talk) 19:38, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
First read: Wikipedia's Mountain Wreath before quoting the unscholarly comments of Srdja Pavlović, Sells, quoting The New York Times (27 July 2008) and other newspapers and using references from questionable sources..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.117.246 ( talk • contribs) 05:41, 14 November 2012
The man's nationality is not in question. Everyone admits that he was Montenegrin (i.e. from Montenegro.) However, some IPs hold the bizarre assertion that he was not an ethnic Serb. Before coming here and screaming about how this page is rampant with "Serbian nationalism" or that "Njegos himself said he was not a Serb...look at madeinmontenegro.com...", read the academic sources cited in this article and then tell me that Njegos was not ethnically Serb. Also, read some of his works (i.e. The Mountain Wreath and The Serbian Mirror). 23 editor ( talk) 18:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
Njegos was a member of Montenegrin ruling dynasty Petrovic, and both him and his predecessors and successors were ethnic Montenegrins, and not foreigners like some users are falsly claiming.
In addition, the statement that he belonged to Serbian Orthodox Church is also false, he was the head of autonomous Montenegrin church called, in native tongue, "Cetinjska Mitropolija", which became part of Serbian Orthodox Church in 1918 after Montenegro had been annexed to Serbia, therefore after Njegos' time.
Djilas writes: "Njegoš never signed himself Radivoje, his real name and its common form, but rather Radivoj. Someone, perhaps Sarajlija, must have told him that it was more correct and more beautiful." I would ask anyone thinking of reverting to Radivoj to please refrain from doing so. 23 editor ( talk) 01:43, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Petar II Petrović-Njegoš. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:01, 9 December 2017 (UTC)