This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Persian Gulf article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 14 days |
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Persian Gulf. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Persian Gulf at the Reference desk. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Currently, the page makes a single reference to the usage of 'the Bitter Sea' by the 'Assyrians'. Setting aside that this is incredibly vague, it doesn't address the fact that the Sumerians and the early Semitic Mesopotamians called the Persian Gulf 'the Lower Sea'. This is the most common nomenclature in early Mesopotamian texts. The name contrasts the Persian Gulf with the Mediterranean, which the early Mesopotamians called 'the Upper Sea'. A thousand years later, in Neo-Assyrian tests, the Gulf is called 'the Eastern Sea'. This should be relevant to include, I think.
Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4311029 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A458:447B:1:1D7B:7DDB:93A1:E043 ( talk) 14:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Should we replace the not-a-forum tag with a FAQ explaining the naming dispute and that the name "Arabian Gulf" won't be replaced in the article? NotAGenious ( talk) 13:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Modern geography has shown that the global sea level during the ice age was over 400 feet (120 meters lower as recently as 8000 BC. This means that the entire Gulf was dry land, a continuation of the Tigris+Euphrates river valley. Little research to date has explored potential cities and settlements in this area, though it may well have been a far more important area of inhabitation than the well known ancient cities. This topic is worth mentioning. Gar37bic ( talk) 14:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
@ DeCausa Hi, the OpenStreetMap map is interactive and zoomable and very well shows map of Persian Gulf. Why did you revert my edit? This map is different from all existing maps. I really believe that if you want to remove one of two maps, you should remove the jpg map and not the OpenStreetMap map.
It is very clear and even more clear than the jpg. All water borders are shown in this new map. Also islands of Persian Gulf are shown better and more clearly. These details only can be shown by OpenStreetMap.
This ability is specially well-used by mobile users. They rapidly zoom by two fingers. Hooman Mallahzadeh ( talk) 16:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The coastline measurements are not correct. Iran's coastline is more significant than 3800km if calculated using the interval of 30km. The Saudi coastline is not even 1/3 of the Iranian coast, which is evident on the map.
The table named "coastlines" tells us Iran has 1536 km and Saudi has 1300 km coastline with the Persian Gulf!
According to the " /info/en/?search=Geography_of_Saudi_Arabia" "To the north, Saudi Arabia is bounded by Jordan, Iraq, and Kuwait. The northern boundary extends almost 1,400 km (870 mi) from the Gulf of Aqaba on the west to Ras al Khafji on the Persian Gulf." Saudi Arabia has a 1400km border in the north from the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Al Khafji.
How does Saudi Arabia have a 1300km coastline with the Persian Gulf? The information is incorrect and misleading. If the shorter interval is considered for the coastline of Saudi, the same rule should be used for others and vice versa.
Please correct the table "Coastlines" to prevent confusion for the readers. Smartiz707 ( talk) 08:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Tahoura.ros ( talk) 10:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Could you kindly update the title to reflect the accurate name "Persian Gulf" instead of "Arabian Sea"? It's important to maintain the correct terminology to avoid confusion. Despite search results sometimes showing "Arabian Gulf," a glance at the map clearly indicates it as the "Persian Gulf." Your prompt attention to rectifying this misinformation would be greatly appreciated.
"The body of water is historically and internationally known as the Persian Gulf. Arab governments refer to it as the Arabian Gulf or The Gulf, and other countries and organizations have begun using Arabian Gulf. The name Gulf of Iran (Persian Gulf) is used by the International Hydrographic Organization."
Persian Gulf - Wikipedia
This is also a reliable source that could be used, by wikipedia. /info/en/?search=Persian_Gulf#:~:text=The%20body%20of%20water%20is%20historically%20and%20internationally%20known%20as,by%20the%20International%20Hydrographic%20Organization.
Here is what Bing Copilot said after I had to beat some sense into it. And the argument has to be added under the dispute, that some argue...
From a geographical perspective, if a peninsula forms the engulfment of a body of water, it would indeed be more accurate to refer to it by the name associated with that peninsula. In the case of the Gulf of Mexico, which is embraced by the Mexican peninsula, the name “Gulf of Mexico” aligns with this geographical reality. However, it’s essential to recognize that naming conventions are influenced by a multitude of factors beyond pure geography. Historical, cultural, and political considerations also play a significant role. The term “Arabian Gulf” reflects regional viewpoints and sensitivities, even though the geographical reality remains the same. In summary, while the geographical correctness favors naming based on the associated landform, the actual nomenclature can be more nuanced due to historical context and differing perspectives.
So under the modern it should also be mentioned, that regardless of the feelings of Persian people, and the historical, cultural, and political considerations, it is incorrect and not accurate to call the gulf the Persian gulf, because in geographic reality it is the Arabian Gulf.
Just as it is correct to name the region of Palestine, Palestine regardless of the historical, cultural and political factors cannot be called the region of Israel.
And further taken into consideration, this is a debate on geographical area, and not the cultural, historical and political factors, the name Persian Gulf must be eliminated as it does not accurately reflect the geographic reality of the gulf. 82.194.55.148 ( talk) 10:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change any reference from “Arabian” to “Persian”. There is not a Single historical document that calls it Arabian Gulf. This is a new phenomenon started by Arab states in recent decades. Throughout the entire recorded history, it has been called the Persian Gulf.
Also remove “Sometimes called the Arabian Gulf” as there is no reference to any evidence of such usage linked in the text. The UN officially declared it the Persian Gulf. No other name is valid. 2600:1700:F2FB:28A0:6537:A9EB:56EC:6864 ( talk) 04:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Persian Gulf article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 14 days |
|
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Persian Gulf. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Persian Gulf at the Reference desk. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Currently, the page makes a single reference to the usage of 'the Bitter Sea' by the 'Assyrians'. Setting aside that this is incredibly vague, it doesn't address the fact that the Sumerians and the early Semitic Mesopotamians called the Persian Gulf 'the Lower Sea'. This is the most common nomenclature in early Mesopotamian texts. The name contrasts the Persian Gulf with the Mediterranean, which the early Mesopotamians called 'the Upper Sea'. A thousand years later, in Neo-Assyrian tests, the Gulf is called 'the Eastern Sea'. This should be relevant to include, I think.
Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4311029 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A458:447B:1:1D7B:7DDB:93A1:E043 ( talk) 14:38, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Should we replace the not-a-forum tag with a FAQ explaining the naming dispute and that the name "Arabian Gulf" won't be replaced in the article? NotAGenious ( talk) 13:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Modern geography has shown that the global sea level during the ice age was over 400 feet (120 meters lower as recently as 8000 BC. This means that the entire Gulf was dry land, a continuation of the Tigris+Euphrates river valley. Little research to date has explored potential cities and settlements in this area, though it may well have been a far more important area of inhabitation than the well known ancient cities. This topic is worth mentioning. Gar37bic ( talk) 14:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
@ DeCausa Hi, the OpenStreetMap map is interactive and zoomable and very well shows map of Persian Gulf. Why did you revert my edit? This map is different from all existing maps. I really believe that if you want to remove one of two maps, you should remove the jpg map and not the OpenStreetMap map.
It is very clear and even more clear than the jpg. All water borders are shown in this new map. Also islands of Persian Gulf are shown better and more clearly. These details only can be shown by OpenStreetMap.
This ability is specially well-used by mobile users. They rapidly zoom by two fingers. Hooman Mallahzadeh ( talk) 16:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The coastline measurements are not correct. Iran's coastline is more significant than 3800km if calculated using the interval of 30km. The Saudi coastline is not even 1/3 of the Iranian coast, which is evident on the map.
The table named "coastlines" tells us Iran has 1536 km and Saudi has 1300 km coastline with the Persian Gulf!
According to the " /info/en/?search=Geography_of_Saudi_Arabia" "To the north, Saudi Arabia is bounded by Jordan, Iraq, and Kuwait. The northern boundary extends almost 1,400 km (870 mi) from the Gulf of Aqaba on the west to Ras al Khafji on the Persian Gulf." Saudi Arabia has a 1400km border in the north from the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Al Khafji.
How does Saudi Arabia have a 1300km coastline with the Persian Gulf? The information is incorrect and misleading. If the shorter interval is considered for the coastline of Saudi, the same rule should be used for others and vice versa.
Please correct the table "Coastlines" to prevent confusion for the readers. Smartiz707 ( talk) 08:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Tahoura.ros ( talk) 10:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Could you kindly update the title to reflect the accurate name "Persian Gulf" instead of "Arabian Sea"? It's important to maintain the correct terminology to avoid confusion. Despite search results sometimes showing "Arabian Gulf," a glance at the map clearly indicates it as the "Persian Gulf." Your prompt attention to rectifying this misinformation would be greatly appreciated.
"The body of water is historically and internationally known as the Persian Gulf. Arab governments refer to it as the Arabian Gulf or The Gulf, and other countries and organizations have begun using Arabian Gulf. The name Gulf of Iran (Persian Gulf) is used by the International Hydrographic Organization."
Persian Gulf - Wikipedia
This is also a reliable source that could be used, by wikipedia. /info/en/?search=Persian_Gulf#:~:text=The%20body%20of%20water%20is%20historically%20and%20internationally%20known%20as,by%20the%20International%20Hydrographic%20Organization.
Here is what Bing Copilot said after I had to beat some sense into it. And the argument has to be added under the dispute, that some argue...
From a geographical perspective, if a peninsula forms the engulfment of a body of water, it would indeed be more accurate to refer to it by the name associated with that peninsula. In the case of the Gulf of Mexico, which is embraced by the Mexican peninsula, the name “Gulf of Mexico” aligns with this geographical reality. However, it’s essential to recognize that naming conventions are influenced by a multitude of factors beyond pure geography. Historical, cultural, and political considerations also play a significant role. The term “Arabian Gulf” reflects regional viewpoints and sensitivities, even though the geographical reality remains the same. In summary, while the geographical correctness favors naming based on the associated landform, the actual nomenclature can be more nuanced due to historical context and differing perspectives.
So under the modern it should also be mentioned, that regardless of the feelings of Persian people, and the historical, cultural, and political considerations, it is incorrect and not accurate to call the gulf the Persian gulf, because in geographic reality it is the Arabian Gulf.
Just as it is correct to name the region of Palestine, Palestine regardless of the historical, cultural and political factors cannot be called the region of Israel.
And further taken into consideration, this is a debate on geographical area, and not the cultural, historical and political factors, the name Persian Gulf must be eliminated as it does not accurately reflect the geographic reality of the gulf. 82.194.55.148 ( talk) 10:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change any reference from “Arabian” to “Persian”. There is not a Single historical document that calls it Arabian Gulf. This is a new phenomenon started by Arab states in recent decades. Throughout the entire recorded history, it has been called the Persian Gulf.
Also remove “Sometimes called the Arabian Gulf” as there is no reference to any evidence of such usage linked in the text. The UN officially declared it the Persian Gulf. No other name is valid. 2600:1700:F2FB:28A0:6537:A9EB:56EC:6864 ( talk) 04:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)