This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Should the "Modern revival" section contain a one sentence reference to the perpetual stew that is currently being cooked in Brooklyn, New York, without mentioning Annie Rauwerda or Depths of Wikipedia? See this diff for more information on the stew as well as the discussion above. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 00:05, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Pinging previous participants: @ Chive Cream Cheese, Pacamah, Jpgordon, Bedivere, and Horizon206.
Support: Reliable sources seldom write about contemporary examples of perpetual stews. With as many as two hundred participants regularly gathering to participate in cooking and eating a perpetual stew which has been cooking for over a month, this appears to be the largest perpetual stew-related event in recorded history. It is certainly relevant to the article topic.
It would be a major disservice to those who come to this article to choose to exclude this event. To do so while while making note of New York City restaurants which have maintained less popular perpetual stews would effectively be paltering, and excluding it would leave readers with an incomplete understanding of the subject matter.
While this club / event may not meet some contributors' personal definitions of notability, it certainly meets the criteria of WP:GNG, Wikipedia's general notability guideline. In fact, It is so notable it could have its own article. A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.
Given the club's coverage in many reliable, independent sources— including New York Magazine, The Washington Post, Insider, and the Vox-owned Eater and Thrillist, it is clear that the criteria for notability is met— arguably for a stand-alone article, and certainly within this article. For reference, many of the other examples are only mentioned in one reliable source.
Some argue against inclusion on the basis this event is too recent ( WP:RECENT), and could lose notability if the perpetual stew were to stop cooking today, or if the near future holds unrelated examples of independently-organized perpetual-stew related events with higher attendance. While it is true that the article may one day need updating in keeping with our changing world, it would be inappropriate to exclude the event based on our personal theories of the future. It doesn't matter that the event may soon end, grow, or change. It already warrants inclusion in the current form.
In short: The club is objectively notable and relevant to the topic. It would be unencyclopedic to exclude it.
Support:In the context of this Article it's worthy of a mention. Lukewarmbeer ( talk) 17:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Support I can't think of any sane reason why this would not be included and other examples of less notability would. 2600:4041:54BD:E800:5DF0:14CF:DA4B:C22D ( talk) 13:56, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Support: Good example of a perpetual stew. Deserving of a few sentences. Name of founder should perhaps not be invoked.
SalsaDancer2 (
talk) 16:27, 17 July 2023 (UTC) —
SalsaDancer2 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic.
Support: Per my other defenses of the inclusion of the sentence, I don't see why having something that is a current event, and as others have said is probably the most notable perpetual stew in recent history, is something that shouldn't be on here. It is a perpetual stew. The other examples that are on the article could themselves be taken as something that is "advertising," so I don't see why this one is a special example of some other type of advertising. Also, given the flood of new news articles on the topic itself, I don't see how that would negate it from being able to be listed. I think it is okay to maybe have it be disconnected from the Depths of Wikipedia account, and maybe listed as the Perpetual Stew club. There are a number of other articles that have also added new information or events that are continuing, and I don't see why this article should be singled out given that it is a current and relevant example of the contents of the article. Pacamah ( talk) 23:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Easy support, with a mention of Rauwerda. Outlets covering the Bushwick stew now include WaPo, NY Mag, Yahoo, Today, WNYC, NY Post, The Independent, Thrillist, and Eater. It’s not just New York media, and even if it was, that would in no way be disqualifying given the narrow nature of the topic. Personal disclosure: I have attended it, but IMHO the news coverage speaks for itself regardless. Cpotisch ( talk) 07:36, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Proposal: In pursuit of WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS and given what appears to be overwhelming (though not unanimous) support for inclusion, here's my proposal for wording. It's quite different from my initial revision, but in the spirit of compromise and consensus, I removed all mention of the initial stew's creator and the initial stew creator's primary work, as well as the specific location.
For a current update:
Since June 7, 2023, a Perpetual Stew Club has been holding intermittent events in Bushwick, Brooklyn to continue the stew for which their eponymous name derives. Hundreds of people regularly gather to perpetually replenish the stew, which is 351 days old as of May 23, 2024.
If the meetings should end (let's assume on August 6th) the article could then be updated to:
Between June and August of 2023, a Perpetual Stew Club formed in Bushwick. Hundreds of participants regularly gathered to continuously replenish the stew. The stew finished cooking on August 6, 2023 at 60 days old.
Of course, I welcome any and all feedback on how this writing could be improved, or you're welcome to help find consensus by editing it. I hope it is sufficiently non-promotional.
And Bedivere, I've asked this before, but I would still love it if you could directly state or outline what criteria would need to be met for it to fit your 'personal' definition of relevancy or notability? Chive Cream Cheese ( talk) 16:00, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
That looks perfect. I think we have consensus.
SalsaDancer2 (
talk) 17:29, 19 July 2023 (UTC) —
SalsaDancer2 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic.
without mentioning Annie Rauwerda or Depths of Wikipedia. That seemed odd because the only thing I know about the renewed interest in perpetual stew is that it's directly through Annie Rauwerd and Depths of Wikipedia. What sense would it make to go way out of our way to separate them? I figured there must not be all that much sourcing about it and DoW fans must be spamming the page. I didn't look into it much. Today I reopened the page and literally moments later, while I'm looking at the RfC, a story pops up on WNYC's Morning Edition about perpetual stew in Brooklyn, with Annie Rauwerda at the center. I looked for a link to the story, but it doesn't look like it's up yet. I did find another WNYC-related link, though, via Gothamist, which mentions Rauwerda by name eleven times. So what's the story of the awkward "without mentioning" business? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
To take everyone's minds off the Bushwick perpetual stew, I noticed that the "Ingredients" Section near the end of the article contains only one sentence. In my opinion, I think it'd be better if we take that sentence and put it in the bottom of the lead.
On top of this, I saw on the talk page some claims that the whole concept of medieval perpetual stews was fabricated in the 70s. Such accusations (even if only accusations) sound like something that should be mentioned in the actual article itself. I'd like to hear some thoughts on if these things should be implemented. Horizon206 ( talk) 22:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Hi All,
So I've found some sources that could possibly be starting points for improvements to the article.
https://www.lawrentian.com/archives/1020358 - a student magazine calling for a perpetual stew to be established at their university? Not sure if people feel this is worthy of inclusion, but interesting nevertheless.
https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/perpetual-stew.htm - this makes some claims about the practice's history that aren't in the article? I haven't been able to verify, so I'd appreciate the input of others. Tomorrow and tomorrow ( talk) 05:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001qd8x Richard W.M. Jones ( talk) 09:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Chive Cream Cheese, Pacamah, Jpgordon, Bedivere, Horizon206, Tomorrow and tomorrow, Rhododendrites, Jpgordon, Theleekycauldron, Lukewarmbeer, Cpotisch, and Voorts: (apologies if I missed anyone) A lot of the arguments to not include Annie Rauwerda came to her not having an article of her own. She now has an article. I added her name with a link to the relevant area and added photos of the two stews mentioned (before I even saw there had been prior discussion). I was reverted by Bedivere here. I think given the existence of the article, the only path that follows the emphasis from sources and Wikipedia's standard of what is WP:DUE and what should be linked is to include her name and the freely available photos. Cerebral726 ( talk) 17:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Should the "Modern revival" section contain a one sentence reference to the perpetual stew that is currently being cooked in Brooklyn, New York, without mentioning Annie Rauwerda or Depths of Wikipedia? See this diff for more information on the stew as well as the discussion above. voorts ( talk/ contributions) 00:05, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Pinging previous participants: @ Chive Cream Cheese, Pacamah, Jpgordon, Bedivere, and Horizon206.
Support: Reliable sources seldom write about contemporary examples of perpetual stews. With as many as two hundred participants regularly gathering to participate in cooking and eating a perpetual stew which has been cooking for over a month, this appears to be the largest perpetual stew-related event in recorded history. It is certainly relevant to the article topic.
It would be a major disservice to those who come to this article to choose to exclude this event. To do so while while making note of New York City restaurants which have maintained less popular perpetual stews would effectively be paltering, and excluding it would leave readers with an incomplete understanding of the subject matter.
While this club / event may not meet some contributors' personal definitions of notability, it certainly meets the criteria of WP:GNG, Wikipedia's general notability guideline. In fact, It is so notable it could have its own article. A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.
Given the club's coverage in many reliable, independent sources— including New York Magazine, The Washington Post, Insider, and the Vox-owned Eater and Thrillist, it is clear that the criteria for notability is met— arguably for a stand-alone article, and certainly within this article. For reference, many of the other examples are only mentioned in one reliable source.
Some argue against inclusion on the basis this event is too recent ( WP:RECENT), and could lose notability if the perpetual stew were to stop cooking today, or if the near future holds unrelated examples of independently-organized perpetual-stew related events with higher attendance. While it is true that the article may one day need updating in keeping with our changing world, it would be inappropriate to exclude the event based on our personal theories of the future. It doesn't matter that the event may soon end, grow, or change. It already warrants inclusion in the current form.
In short: The club is objectively notable and relevant to the topic. It would be unencyclopedic to exclude it.
Support:In the context of this Article it's worthy of a mention. Lukewarmbeer ( talk) 17:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
Support I can't think of any sane reason why this would not be included and other examples of less notability would. 2600:4041:54BD:E800:5DF0:14CF:DA4B:C22D ( talk) 13:56, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Support: Good example of a perpetual stew. Deserving of a few sentences. Name of founder should perhaps not be invoked.
SalsaDancer2 (
talk) 16:27, 17 July 2023 (UTC) —
SalsaDancer2 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic.
Support: Per my other defenses of the inclusion of the sentence, I don't see why having something that is a current event, and as others have said is probably the most notable perpetual stew in recent history, is something that shouldn't be on here. It is a perpetual stew. The other examples that are on the article could themselves be taken as something that is "advertising," so I don't see why this one is a special example of some other type of advertising. Also, given the flood of new news articles on the topic itself, I don't see how that would negate it from being able to be listed. I think it is okay to maybe have it be disconnected from the Depths of Wikipedia account, and maybe listed as the Perpetual Stew club. There are a number of other articles that have also added new information or events that are continuing, and I don't see why this article should be singled out given that it is a current and relevant example of the contents of the article. Pacamah ( talk) 23:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Easy support, with a mention of Rauwerda. Outlets covering the Bushwick stew now include WaPo, NY Mag, Yahoo, Today, WNYC, NY Post, The Independent, Thrillist, and Eater. It’s not just New York media, and even if it was, that would in no way be disqualifying given the narrow nature of the topic. Personal disclosure: I have attended it, but IMHO the news coverage speaks for itself regardless. Cpotisch ( talk) 07:36, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Proposal: In pursuit of WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS and given what appears to be overwhelming (though not unanimous) support for inclusion, here's my proposal for wording. It's quite different from my initial revision, but in the spirit of compromise and consensus, I removed all mention of the initial stew's creator and the initial stew creator's primary work, as well as the specific location.
For a current update:
Since June 7, 2023, a Perpetual Stew Club has been holding intermittent events in Bushwick, Brooklyn to continue the stew for which their eponymous name derives. Hundreds of people regularly gather to perpetually replenish the stew, which is 351 days old as of May 23, 2024.
If the meetings should end (let's assume on August 6th) the article could then be updated to:
Between June and August of 2023, a Perpetual Stew Club formed in Bushwick. Hundreds of participants regularly gathered to continuously replenish the stew. The stew finished cooking on August 6, 2023 at 60 days old.
Of course, I welcome any and all feedback on how this writing could be improved, or you're welcome to help find consensus by editing it. I hope it is sufficiently non-promotional.
And Bedivere, I've asked this before, but I would still love it if you could directly state or outline what criteria would need to be met for it to fit your 'personal' definition of relevancy or notability? Chive Cream Cheese ( talk) 16:00, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
That looks perfect. I think we have consensus.
SalsaDancer2 (
talk) 17:29, 19 July 2023 (UTC) —
SalsaDancer2 (
talk •
contribs) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic.
without mentioning Annie Rauwerda or Depths of Wikipedia. That seemed odd because the only thing I know about the renewed interest in perpetual stew is that it's directly through Annie Rauwerd and Depths of Wikipedia. What sense would it make to go way out of our way to separate them? I figured there must not be all that much sourcing about it and DoW fans must be spamming the page. I didn't look into it much. Today I reopened the page and literally moments later, while I'm looking at the RfC, a story pops up on WNYC's Morning Edition about perpetual stew in Brooklyn, with Annie Rauwerda at the center. I looked for a link to the story, but it doesn't look like it's up yet. I did find another WNYC-related link, though, via Gothamist, which mentions Rauwerda by name eleven times. So what's the story of the awkward "without mentioning" business? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
To take everyone's minds off the Bushwick perpetual stew, I noticed that the "Ingredients" Section near the end of the article contains only one sentence. In my opinion, I think it'd be better if we take that sentence and put it in the bottom of the lead.
On top of this, I saw on the talk page some claims that the whole concept of medieval perpetual stews was fabricated in the 70s. Such accusations (even if only accusations) sound like something that should be mentioned in the actual article itself. I'd like to hear some thoughts on if these things should be implemented. Horizon206 ( talk) 22:31, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Hi All,
So I've found some sources that could possibly be starting points for improvements to the article.
https://www.lawrentian.com/archives/1020358 - a student magazine calling for a perpetual stew to be established at their university? Not sure if people feel this is worthy of inclusion, but interesting nevertheless.
https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/perpetual-stew.htm - this makes some claims about the practice's history that aren't in the article? I haven't been able to verify, so I'd appreciate the input of others. Tomorrow and tomorrow ( talk) 05:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001qd8x Richard W.M. Jones ( talk) 09:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Chive Cream Cheese, Pacamah, Jpgordon, Bedivere, Horizon206, Tomorrow and tomorrow, Rhododendrites, Jpgordon, Theleekycauldron, Lukewarmbeer, Cpotisch, and Voorts: (apologies if I missed anyone) A lot of the arguments to not include Annie Rauwerda came to her not having an article of her own. She now has an article. I added her name with a link to the relevant area and added photos of the two stews mentioned (before I even saw there had been prior discussion). I was reverted by Bedivere here. I think given the existence of the article, the only path that follows the emphasis from sources and Wikipedia's standard of what is WP:DUE and what should be linked is to include her name and the freely available photos. Cerebral726 ( talk) 17:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)