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Perhaps it's just the facts that make it look this way, but reading this article seems to paint a very bad picture of PETA. I can't say that any of the wording sounds especially bad, but it paints PETA as hypocritical, disorganized, and misguided. Perhaps an expert on the subject/on neutrality should give it a look over? It might be a correct image to paint, though... -- 24.163.212.206 12:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Certainly the following is worded in anti-PETA manner, "In general, Newkirk makes no apology for PETA's support of activists who may break the law, writing that "no movement for social change has ever succeeded without 'the militarism component'."". Does the wikipedia article on Ghandi using wording like, 'Ghandi made no apology for his civil disobediance,'?
Also, the enlarged quotes are biased in their selection. I specifically take issue with, "“ (Even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS), we'd be against it.. — Ingrid Newkirk, PETA President [108] ”" The source for that is *not* Ingrid Newkirk, but rather a letter from Patient Advocates Against PeTA to Charlize Theron quoting her as saying that. Do I need to explain why secondary sourcing is bad? Either find a source where the reporter actually heard her say it, or else qualify the enlarged selection like the article itself does.
And again, isn't the picture of the dead cats just an emotional appeal to bash PETA. The crime seems to be a relatively small part of what PETA is (and in any case, it does not represent PETA policy, but rather what people working for them have done). In an encyclopedia, with few pictures, this seems like space misused.
Because it sure reads that way. I know that most articles in wikipeida are shit and should only be read for their entertainment value, but this is really over the top. Singhahyung 16:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes because actually, the AMA controls the entire world, and regularly uses fluffeh baby kittins for satanic rituals.
Furthermore, everybody in THE ENTIRE WORLD supports Peta, and the only people who don't are blinded by the evil meat industry. Obviously. I vote this should be added to the article.
Generalization? 'everyone' seems a little harsh 'cause I hate PETA and am against their cause. They are rude(holocaust), philosophically unsound(see ' animal rights'), sympathetic towards cuter animals(so true - noone has a campaign for jellyfish - look it up), and disorganized. PETA should acknowledge their support for animal welfare, not 'animal rights'-- 70.68.43.50 04:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
If everyone's roughly agreed this article wasn't written by the American Meat Institute: Reckon this can get cleaned up (deleted) from the discussion in a week or two? NathanLee 14:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
This article has the fairness of Fox news. This article should be moved to Conservapedia. 209.162.53.103 07:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I've heard this a lot, that having a pet like a dog or even having a fish is prohibited in PeTA's idealogy. If it is, it should be added to the article -- Joeblack982 07:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I came to this article specifcally to get this information, and I was surprised it was not here.
207.237.100.65
06:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Question then;
If the above corporate statement is correct they why the open support of California AB 1634?
This was a manditory span & neuter law for all animals. Make no mistake, this is an overreaching and invasive mandatory pet spay/neuter law. The author of the bill, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine, prepares another version of AB 1634 for the Senate Local Government Committee, those behind the measure have only increased their shrill rhetoric and efforts against pet owners.
On a national level, PETA is urging supporters to "Meet with your local officials to get a mandatory spay/neuter law passed in your own community," and encouraging Assemblyman Levine, "not to give up."
TAKE NOTE PEOPLE!!! PETA's is nothing more than a group of TAX EXEMPT TERRORISTS!
They have great PR people and they make believe that what they are doing is positive and get celeb's and common people to "Donate to their worthy cause".-- Dogperson3d 17:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
i'm new here so what do you think of this addition
In the Cartoon Network series My Gym Partner's a Monkey in a scene of the episode Inoculation Day a group of 3 females Circle Ingrid Giraffe holding signs and shouting chants like “animals are people too”. This occurs when Adam is chased up her neck by Principal Poncherello Pixiefrog and Nurse Gazelle with a blow dart. When Adam is hit by the dart filled with antidote and transformed into a human the group leaves
Comeback2009 00:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
... wait we have to find sources for Cultural influence too... like i said i'm new here, do you mind explaining. I was just watching the show and thought there was a very stong link. Comeback2009 00:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Comeback2009 01:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
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The timeline should include the times that PETA has funded eco-terrorist like David Wilson, Josh Harper, and Rod Coranado.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200203%5CCUL20020308a.html
As it stands the timeline reads like a fluff piece. It also is missing the criminal charges a while back where peta was dumping dead animals in adumpster
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/EDG11DC9BK1.DTL and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PETA_dumpster_incident_cat_with_kittens.jpg is a fitting picture to go with it.
Thanks!
205.161.214.82
05:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
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1990 PETA made a $2,000 contribution to the defense of
David Wilson , and $5,000 contribution to the "
Josh Harper Support Committee." Both these individuals were on trial for eco-terrorist activities.
1994 PeTA gave over $70,000 toward the failed legal defense of ALFer Rodney Coronado, who was sentenced to 57 months in prison for torching a Michigan State University research facility
2005 PETA employees charged with 31 counts of animal cruelty and 8 of improperly disposing of animal remains. The crimes were committed by PETA officials, using a PETA owned vehicle. http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/articles/2005/06/18/news/news1.txt
I will draw up more shortly. 205.161.214.82 06:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
{{editprotect}} http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/EDG11DC9BK1.DTL http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200203%5CCUL20020308a.html http://epw.senate.gov/109th/Exhibit_11.pdf I assume the US senate would be considered a good citation. It is also on their tax form, linked here, in the article, already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals#_note-62 I would say forking over cash to fund an arsonist is a pretty big deal , as well as funding an organization listed as one of the most dangerous terrorist groups in America. http://www.cq.com/public/20050325_homeland.html 205.161.214.82 07:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
The Timeline section is there to help the reader understand PETA's rationale for its activities, from PETA's own perspective. It starts with "according to PETA, important actions include". It is not a general timeline of PETA-related events, but a list of the actions or events PETA itself sees as important, typically what it considers as its accomplishments. Other PETA-related events or actions that don't fall into this category should be interwoven into the text, if they are not already there. Crum375 13:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
(resetting indent) I agree that the subject of an article should be able to present its own perspective of its accomplishment; however, I disagree that a long list of actions according to PETA does the deed. The list reads like a PR list, with no rebuttals (or in this case, of any POV other than PETA's). What I think would be more useful in understanding PETA would be much fewer (2-3 would suffice), in-depth examples, with views from within PETA (and possibly from without). As it stands, the section isn't balanced by any criticism, and doesn't explain sufficiently the views and motivations of PETA behind its purported actions. Thus, as it stands, the section doesn't reach its intended goal. Something needs to be done about it to achieve roughly the same balance that's been achieved in the rest of the article.-- Ramdrake 00:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, as it stands, we have a large amount of vertical space that is eye catchingly, noticeable visually distinguishable from the rest of the article, the sort of thing someone skimming the article would slow down and read a bit, which is nothing more than an uncontested, decidedly one-sided fluff piece that has deliberatly been written in PETA's point of view. Writing an article in ANYONE'S point of view is decidedly encyclopedic, and even worse when the POV is nothing more than a reprint of publicity information copied from the PR department of the articles topic. 205.161.214.82 03:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
All the whitespace of the timeline is ugly, and the content itself doesn't seem encyclopedic. I don't think we're here to write a textbook on PETA's claimed accomplishments, just an encyclopedia entry on what they are. I'd reccomend deleting the entire thing. RogueTrick 18:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe the floating quotes from the peta site are appropriate. Wikipedia's article on PETA does not (and should not) look like the PETA site itself. I don't believe it's appropriate to have an article that reads like an advertisement for the thing that it is on. I had removed them, but slimvirgin reverted (en mass) a bunch of changes including those quotes. I think they have no place if not relevant and integrated into part of the main article body. Otherwise the whole article becomes POV. NathanLee 10:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
(from SV talk) I've integrated the previous changes into your constructive ones (e.g. removing excessive word linking) as your mass revert not only got rid of stuff which you said was repetition (although I can't see anywhere in the philosophy that mentions strict adherence to equal animal/human rights, veganism). You also undid a bunch of typo corrections I had made, a fix of POV stuff, and deleted referenced material (the 60 minutes transcript is not in any way a personal site).
I've created a discussion area if you want to talk about whether those floating quotes belong in wikipedia, but I doubt they do given that they destroy the encyclopaedic structure and make it look like a PETA newsletter. NathanLee 10:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The quote from Ingrid E. Newkirk about her days before Peta and her killing animals should be expanded to included the appropriate context, otherwise it's just a chopped up quote that's made to sound cold: "I would say, 'They are stepping on the animals, crushing them like grapes, and they don't care.' In the end, I would go to work early, before anyone got there, and I would just kill the animals myself. Because I couldn't stand to let them go through that. I must have killed a thousand of them, sometimes dozens every day. Some of those people would take pleasure in making them suffer. Driving home every night, I would cry just thinking about it. And I just felt, to my bones, this cannot be right."
I have once again removed the reference to Futurama and the popplers episode. I have done this because
If we can find a reliable source that draws the link between PETA and this episode then by all means we should include it, but including it in a poorly sourced or original research filled state simply lowers the overall quality of the article and goes against our policies. It is the responsibility of the poster to provide reliable sources, not the responsibility of other editors to fix the problems left by such posts. - Localzuk (talk) 11:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
A look around suggests the IFAW has more members, assets, and is active in more countries. PETA as largest may be a meme (note the Britannica source is a blog). Marskell 11:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I've used phrasal attribution for the largest claim, but I'm wondering whether the information ought to be removed entirely. First, as noted above, IFAW claims more members, staff, countries active, and assets. And then I had a brainwave: the US Humane Society, which claimed assets of 200 million dollars for '05. [3](big PDF) That's more than an order of magnitude larger than PETA. [4] Finally, whether peta.org is a reliable source is highly debatable.
In short, I think the claim that it's largest is simply false. It's certainly the most visible, which is why I suspect an internet meme. The only counter-argument might be that the Humane Society etc. are strictly animal welfare organizations, but I'd call it a distinction without a difference; its areas of concern are completely in-keeping with PETA's. Marskell 12:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Proposed addition of content: As PETA's tactics (boycotts and "corporate bullying") are what causes controversy often, I have the following to add:
PETA's campaigning tactics were described as not "much different than blackmail" in 2005 by Dr Len Stevens, the CEO of Australian Wool Innovations body. [2]. A similar worded accusation in a 60 minutes interview that "They were blackmailed by you" was dismissed by PETA representative Ingrid Newkirk as "It doesn't matter" so long as "They are on board" (referring to PETA achieving its boycott goal). [3]
Any comments on this? I believe this adheres to wikipedia's policies:
I believe also it provides the reader with insight into the attitude of PETA campaigns with the concept of "any means to an ends".
Sounds like a pretty POV selection for a quote to me. "Blackmail" is a pretty loaded word. People attach all sorts of labels to things, even people that you are allied with. You could call any boycott "blackmail", but most people would realize that it's a description with baggage.
I removed the framed quotes again. I couldn't agree more strongly with Nathan's position that this makes it look like WP is endorsing PETA. I don't have a problem with these quotes being worked back into the article as normal text, though.-- Ramdrake 12:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) I've added two more floating quotes to even out the score as best as I could see it, and I promise I'll stop there, as long as too many other quotes don't get added. This should dispel the perception that only having positive floating quotes makes the article look like an ad for PETA (which I mostly agree with), and the prominence of both the pro-PETA quotes and some of the strongest criticisms should help give a better first impression that this articles aims for a balance of views.-- Ramdrake 20:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Right, the article is currently 92kb in size which is far too large. How can we trim it down/split some of it off?
I propose that we move the other campaigns section and some of the campaigning section to its own article and summarise that here. This could also be done with the Timeline section if necessary?- Localzuk (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
How about a new page for "People for Ethical Treatment of Animals Campaigns" and "History of People for Ethical Treatment of Animals Activism" ?
Any thoughts on whether that would help chop this article down to size? Think this is similar to separating out the celebrity supporters..
NathanLee
12:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Is the subject worthy of so many pages to it? Important events and recent news is one thing, but normal happenings just start pushing wikipedia into being more of a news site. RogueTrick 18:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I reckon this page needs a big red sign at the top saying
"Yes, we know: People for Eating Tasty Animals.. Ha ha.. It was only funny the first 300 times.."
No this has no content, I just thought it'd get a smile from the numerous people keeping the vandals out. Keep up the good work! :P NathanLee 19:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I've replaced a couple of instances of "companion animal" with "pet" or "animal" as it's not exactly a term used anywhere except perhaps in PETA material.. If anyone's got objections: discuss here.. NathanLee 01:20, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) Would this be a good junction to think about what our article on companion animal says? Rockpocke t 07:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
A google search for "companion animal" yields almost a million hits, and PETA isn't even mentioned in the first few pages that I checked. Agencies which are mentioned include the US Dept of Agriculture (USDA), various universities, government councils, etc. I think that companion animal is a new term to describe a "pet's" unique legal and emotional relationship with people - even though pets are owned, courts in the US have begun recognizing that "loss of companionship" is something that should be compensated for, so if someone kills your dog he may be responsible for costs in excess of the cost of replacement, unlike if he wrecks your car which legally only requires replacement value. I think the term companion animal better, like it or not, better reflects the way society currently views animals kept as companions than pets. It's not an animal rigths or welfare issue, just evolving language. Bob98133 12:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Why Further reading is now labeled External links that makes no sense?-- Migospia †♥ 03:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
From a PETA representative house of lords transcript.
DR TROY SEIDLE
TUESDAY 12 FEBRUARY 2002
1200. Would you oppose guide dogs for the blind?
(Dr Seidle) Considering some of the training that I myself have witnessed, yes, unless that can be substantially modified.
Earl of Onslow
1201. Do you realise that if your policy was carried out and everybody became vegans then there would be no sheep, no pigs and no cattle in this country or in any other country in the world? Is that what you want, the extermination of cattle, sheep and pigs in the whole universe? That would be the direct consequence of your policy.
(Dr Seidle) That is not our motivation.
1202. That was not the question I asked. The question was do you realise that this would happen, that is the direct consequence of your policy?
(Dr Seidle) Yes.
1203. So you are happy to see the extermination and the extinction of sheep, cattle and pigs?
(Dr Seidle) I would not say happy but we would accept that.
1204. That is the direct consequence of your policy.
(Dr Seidle) That would be fine. It would not happen overnight.
Earl of Onslow: You say that it would be fine. Okay, I have said enough.
Chairman: Lord Onslow, we are not a court of law.
Might be useful to clarify positions on things. Though the chairman had to remind the earl of onslow to pull his head in a bit. NathanLee 23:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I'm coming into the conversation a bit late, but did any of the above transcript make it into the article? Because if this is just a general discussion of the topic it should be moved elsewhere... VanTucky 14:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to charge PETA's gross misrepresentation of the facts as a crime?
False advertising, lying, disturbing the peace, rabble rousing, trying to change the way people live, obscene ad campaigns etc. 12va34 20:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't tell me that the "Your Dad Kills" campaign isn't obscene and offensive. 12va34 22:54, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
PETA is worse than the mafia, take the Vick situation, he hasn't been proven guilty, yet the PETA people are strong arming their way into getting him banned from Falcons camp. PETA cares only for their interests and refuses to compromise, with all the hot air coming out of their mouth, they probably kill Billions of air molecules, because I guess they consider them animals to. It's natural selection, survival of the fittest. 21:20 July 23
What about mentioning in the article that some people have brought up lawsuits against PETA's massive propaganda campaign? A guy in Texas successfully sued PETA on the grounds that the propaganda was innapropriate for children. If this isn't mentioned in the article, a seperate Controversie section should be created. 75.2.217.84 17:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I question the Center for Consumer Freedom web site being listed as a See Also link on this page. I don't think PETA has ever said anything about them, and PETA's got plenty of critics, so it seems odd that just this one would be here. Unless someone thinks otherwise? Bob98133 20:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I think the next move should be off the page. The Peta Kills Animals site right above that is put up by the same guys. I don't think it's well documented at all, but at least it's specific to PETA. The Center for Consumer Freedom site is all over the place - they've got stuff about PETA, but mostly about other things they don't like, so I still think it should go. Maybe the NRA doesn't like PETA either, but that's no reason to link to them or every other group that hates PETA. Page would be too long :) Bob98133 21:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
1. Thats improper sourcing
2. That's wrong. Please see the wp policy on See also
3. The cultural reference section is a trivia section
4. If they don't break copyright then okay.
5. They are not properly sourced as currently formatted.
Turtlescrubber 21:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
You are correct that achieving and maintaining a proper balance is going to be a long term concern for this page. One thing that jumped out at me with regards to the balance is the appearance of exclusive use of PETA sources for the time line section. Instead of having the grouping of four references, all to the peta website, at the top of the list it would be better to move the individual references to the portions of the time line where the information is actually used. --Allen3 talk 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
As it will save everyones time. All of my good faith/helpful edits have been reverted for very specious reasons. Why? This article is locked down tighter than any article I have ever seen. The claim of "already sourced" is a joke. Could I add 5 sources to the top of an article and then not have to put any sources anywhere in the article? I spent a good amount of time trying to improve this article, starting with someone else's talk page suggestion. The editors on this article are acting in ludicrous abandon of wikipedia policy. Turtlescrubber 23:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I added a tag to the trivia section, also known as cultural influences, as per Localzuk (talk)'s suggestion and my complete agreement. This section needs to be "integrated into the article." Also, as per Bob98133 suggestion above, the Center for Consumer Freedom should be removed from the see also section as undue weight. I wholeheartedly agree and have added a npov tag. Turtlescrubber 16:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I whole heartedly agree that the article should be re-written to make known PETA's gestapo propaganda tactics, eco-terrorism, and conspiricy to make everyone miserable. What about PETA and the dems money laundering scandall? That was thouroughly covered by the news butisn't mentioned once in the article.
75.1.249.181
17:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
+ A 2007 documentary film called Your Mommy Kills Animals, taking its title from the PETA pamphlet of the same name, looks into PETA's tactics and their being characterized by the FBI as a domestic terrorist group.
Hey, Fourdee - this is POV for several reasons. 1. this movie is NOT about PETA - it is primarily about the Stop Huntington campaign, PETA is mentioned in the film but it isn't about PETA 2. the movie certainly isn't about PETA being characterized as a terrorist group by the FBI - so mentioning both of these conveys the message that including this is promoting a POV. I don't see the necessity of a separate catagory for Documentary film - which indicates that there is only one film documentary about PETA, or referencing PETA, so use of the singular "film" again promotes a point of view. If the intent is to establish a category of documentary films about PETA, perhaps it could have been discussed prior to your posting since this page is already controversial. I don't object to this film being included in the proper place in this article, or a list of documentary films about PETA, or inspired by the names of PETA pamphlets, as long as the content conforms to Wiki NPOV. Bob98133 18:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I respectfully suggest the incorporation of a criticisms section, just because a particular section attracts vandals does not mean that the article should be altered to appease the wiki vandals. The article needs a central criticism section as this is almost the defacto standard for articles on controversial subjects/groups and inserting criticism throughout the article presents significant NPOV problems since it functionally dilutes criticism. Presentation does matter 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 03:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I did, and I still respectfully disagree, a criticism section does serve as a magnet for, pardon the pun, criticism and revisions, but the lack of one does bias the article, even inadvertently. I guess a better way of describing my point is that while you mention that the seperate section does not work by encouraging vandalism, I think the current format presents NPOV problems, so one problem has been reduced at the cost of introducing another. 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 22:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
1. Peta kills 3/4 of the animals they supposedly "save."
2. PETA supports "total animal liberation," which essentially means the outlawing of animals as pets, entertainment (circuses), farm use, and even seeing eye dogs for the blind.
3. PETA does not denounce the use of violence, including fire bombing research laboratories
4. Opposes the use of animals for drug testing for medications such as vaccines, medication, insulin, etc
Intranetusa
02:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The above paragraph is incorrect. They DO oppose pet ownership, and if that were exposed, PETA would be out of business tomorrow. They are NOT a "humane" organization. They believe in "animal rights" and oppose domestication of animals. Just look at the quotes of the truly deranged founder Ingrid Newkirk. She makes no bones about it.--2 March 2008 Susan Nunes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.228.60.145 ( talk) 02:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
THIS ARTICLE NEEDS THE CRITISMS OF PETA LIKE MOST OTHER ARTICLES DO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.31.65 ( talk) 13:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I realize that the aforementioned Criticism section may have drawn intense vandalism, but I have to second the original poster's sentiments: working criticism into the article subtly is, at its most effective, subversive (doesn't Wiki have policy against weasel words?) and, at worst, utterly ineffective to the point that the casual reader cannot so much as detect it whilst reading it. The idea driving criticism is to offer a counterpoint to a primary viewpoint presented. Just because PETA-fanatics may regularly spam this article to keep it skewed to representing a bias doesn't mean that Wiki should cave to their antics—the purpose of a respectible reference document is to offer, if not as neutral a point of view as is possible, at least two opposing viewpoints such that the reader may gain an understanding of both sides of a particular issue. Reading the article as is, it seems purely uncritical of PETA, which, given the organization's history, is unacceptable. Wiki shouldn't be moulding its standards to suit the whims of abrasively vocal groups simply because of how abrasively vocal they are. It sets a bad precedent that will be difficult to stem once other similar groups witness how well these tactics work on Wiki—would it be acceptable to erase or heavily whitewash several articles on the Protestant Reformation simply because a group of fanatic Catholics got together and persistently vandalized the articles? I came to Wiki looking for information on PETA's past controversies and instead got a PETA pamphlet. If Wiki is to maintain any sort of respectible position as a source of reference, this must be remedied. SumeragiNoOnmyouji ( talk) 11:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Bob- I respectfully disagree. I added [5] and you deleted it-- an academic reference critical of PeTA....?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnand thegolden ( talk • contribs) 22:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
To all, there must be a critism section in this article, or all other critism sections from all other articles must be removed to make it fair and balanced. To assume that PETA is above critism is absurd. This article is a biased piece of work without a legit critism section, and must be cleaned up to present itself as NPOV or wikipedia begins to lose the little credibilty it has remaining. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.224.179.25 ( talk) 16:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe a criticism section is desperately needed on this page. It is overwhelmingly biased in favor of the organization and barely even acknowleges any criticism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.184.230.206 ( talk) 05:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
This talk page stinks of bias. Checking up on the people blocking a critism section and I found a lot of them have connection to animal rights -OOPSIE- ( talk) 04:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Whilst having the criticisms widely distributed is all well and good, it is a long article and I don't want to read all of it to find what I'm looking for - it's illogical not to have at least a section. Alternatively, I'm sure there are enough to make an entire page on! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.230.126 ( talk) 21:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Why are there other sources in the timeline? I thought it was all supposed to be sourced by the four cites in the title? Should I remove them as duplicates? Should I add fact tags to the ones without secondary sources? Or both? I honestly don't know what is sourced and what isn't. Turtlescrubber 00:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, rather than being silly and edit warring over these, I'll just bring this here. So, as of my writing, these are the links which are being discussed:
Now, I think everyone can agree that (1) and (2) should be clearly kept. However, lets go through the other ones.
(3) - This is an "open letter" by Clive Barker and PETA to a number of newspapers, that calls on them to start publishing animal deaths in the obituaries. However, this has no context in this article -- a "Clive Barker" is never mentioned, nor is this letter ever discussed in the article. In fact, Clive Barker's article doesn't mention this as even being signifigant. I removed this item because the article gives it no context, something required by WP:EL, and the statements made by PETA are already covered in other respects in the article itself.
(4) - (6)' - These are three parts of a speech given by Ingrid Newkirk, edited by someone, and posted on Youtube. They have no attribution, so their copyright status is highly dubious. This alone is grounds to remove them. However, they are also never given any context. Is this an important speech? Are the views in this speech novel, or atypical of PETA? Did this speech garner some reaction which would merit including it? Apparently, the answers to all of these are no. This speech is never mentioned in the article, nor are the views explained to be in any way atypical of PETA. There appears to be nothing unique about this speech. As such, it's simply a statement of a number of things PETA believes -- but, these should, and indeed mostly are, covered in the article -- and will certainly be covered in an FA-class version of this. This is specifically what should be avoided by external linking guidelines.
(7) and (9) - these are sites critical of PETA's stance on euthanasia. They explains why, and how, they oppose PETA's policies. However, this is not relevant for an article about PETA -- is "no kill now" or "PETA kills animals" prominent memberd of this community? Do they have some special viewpoints which are not discussed in the large section about PETA and euthanasia? Again, apparently not. These add nothing to the page which is not already discussed in the section, or at the linked no-kill movement article. Again, per guidelines they should not be included.
(8) - I actually feel that this should not be in an FA-class article, but since there is a dearth of discussion about the topics covered right now in the article, and it's by a recognized authority, I could definitely see this being retained; perhaps even in the future.
(10) - this is a general site which lobbies against a variety of different groups, including PETA. However, their site is not specifically related to PETA, and the article already both links an article about them, at Center for Consumer Freedom and cites a news story about them as well. This link add nothing which is not already included in the article -- however, of these links, this is the one I can most see retaining; but, since it is not specifically about PETA, I am having a hard time still.
(11) - this is a PETA satire and criticism cite. However, this site is never mentioned in the article, nor is there any context given. The satire group mentioned, People Eating Tasty Animals, is not the same as this one, and is already wikilinked. However, this link is never given any context, or included in the article in any way.
(12) - this is an article written by Christina Harvey about why she opposes PETA's policies on certain dog breeds. However, the article already explains PETA's policies, and the opposition to them. The question which remains is "why is this important"? I honestly don't know. This appears to just be a non-notable person, who is not an expert on the subject, nor of any particular interest or qualifications, writing about how she likes her dogs in a blog about pit bulls. This is specifically prohibited by guidelines, as Ms Harvey is not a recognized authority on the topic.
(13) - this should be the most clear-cut. It's a press release by the Anti Defamation League which denounces PETA. However, you already cite this in the article! There's no need to include it as an external link, since it's already been entirely covered, and reference.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts on the issue. -- Haemo 21:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so I used my journal privileges and did some digging to clean up the trivia section. So, we have the "timeline" and the "see also" section to fix.
Honestly, I don't see why you need a timeline to begin with -- shouldn't any and all notable event be in the "history" section? -- so I think I'll just deal with the "see also". Honestly, right now, I don't see what the problem is. You could, perhaps, add some more -- but just remember, only add things which are not already Wikilinked in the article. -- Haemo 23:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Details of the Michael Vick trial needs to be added PETA has/is victimising a person convicted of no crime
Just go to the PETA home page they have strated a presure campaign to have Vicks endorsment and NFL contract suspended. There latest campaign see link
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/afalcons_vick_2 asks for "help today to urge the league to treat the allegations against Vick with the seriousness that they deserve and suspend him without pay immediately."
It's just a case of trial by media. PETA have already decided on his guilt and have used a pressure campaign with Nike to have Vicks merchandising deals suspended. This case should be on the page because it is very high profile. Will PETA apologise if Vick is found innocent?
158.234.250.71 15:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
This article has been heavily vandalized. I'm going to put up a semi-lock for vandalism until someone with more expertise can make the appropriate changes. Cmsr. Jackdaw 15:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
And why so? Because the majority of people in the United States think PETA is a buch of loonies fighting for no cause while we animal-eaters are out fighting for real causes like freedom and democracy while they cry cause we kill pigs and other stupid animals. 74.70.155.206 11:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Brad is spot on. Librarianofages sums up the sort of snooty users that make wikipedia unbearable sometimes. -- 81.155.255.195 ( talk) 01:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
This section now states:
I think that "commentators and academics" should be changed to "cartoonists and comedians" since that is who are used as examples. Otherwise it would need a citation about who these cultural "commentators and academics" are. Bob98133 18:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
PETA has been banned in Texas for harassing children with their "your dad kills" campaign. 75.2.223.253 04:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
It was in an LA Times editorial by columnist Daniel Berchevsky. And last time I checked, harassing children was not a protected right. 75.3.231.89 02:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
This is patent non-sense. I saw the Texas Tech campus chapter of those hippies creating a ruckus at KFC about 3 months ago. And, for the record, I support their right to do so. Pygmypony 13:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Any reason why they are HQed in Virginia? just curious.
Arthurian Legend 22:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
"Many of the campaigns bear fruit for PETA. Burger King,[49] McDonalds,[50] Wendy's,[51] Petco,[52] and in 2006, after talks with PETA, Polo Ralph Lauren announced that it would no longer use fur in any of its lines.[53]"
McDonalds used fur?? I don't know what they convinced Bk, McD etc to do, but it ought to be made clear that they weren't in the furburger business 84.67.176.2 16:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems strange to me that an article on a group like PETA, a group which aims to create controversy to further its cause, has no section for legitimate criticism on the article page. While I recognize that such a section could be, in some circumstances, a sort of 'open season' for heckling the group, it also seems to me that the article might seem a bit biased without one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.118.117.141 ( talk) 15:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
In other words there is no criticizing PETA on Wikipedia we all know they are better than everyone else, and only do what they do because of it. Come on Even George W. Bush has a criticism section, so does Ann Coulter, do you really think more people will open season on PETA than them? Also I resent the idea that this discussion has been tabled a lot of people on here work for PETA. If this is not answered in 3 days I will re add a criticism section and request the article be locked due to vandalism from the subject of the article. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Wolfmanjess12 (
talk •
contribs)
12:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a "controversy" section that cites PETA's supposed killing of animals? Sites like [10], [11], [12], and [13] cite PETA's "hypocritical" stance on animals ("better dead than fed") and seem legit... First page of Google. I didn't even bother to check for anything else; it was just that easy to find.
An IP kept adding stuff about it, but it was reverted, due (in my opinion) more to wording than anything. Your thoughts? -- King of the Wontons | lol wut? | Oh noes! Vandals! 20:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, why did the controversy section get removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.252.38 ( talk) 07:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I think this is Bias towards PETA and there criticism and controversy needs to be put up since this artice making PETA look like Angels in fact there bad as the meat industry (irony)
None of you people have any say in what is credible.
I don't find CNN credible, should I remove all those CNN references? 72.187.112.172 ( talk) 18:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Your version: In 2005 PETA killed over 90% of animals it had brought in. 14,419 animals killed by PETA since 1998
My change: In 2005, PETA killed over 90% of the companion animals surrendered to it - 14,419 animals since 1998.
Turtlescrubber - I get your point - despite the inferior source - you want this information included, but don't you think it's a bit redundant to start by saying PETA killed... then end the sentence by saying killed by PETA? Can you document that PETA brought all of these animals in? My understanding of their operation is that a lot of the animals that they get, and maybe kill, are animals that are brought in to them. But if they killed an animal, it would have had to have been surrendered to them, or they couldn't have killed it, which was my point in using that phrase - it's more concise when you're talking about shelters who get animals by owner surrender or if they bring in strays or municipal impounds. I don't think that PETA takes in, or otherwise gets any farm animals or exotic animals in their shelter, so these numbers are basically about cats and dogs, maybe with the occasional rabbit. Bob98133 03:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
The euthanasia stats were arrived at in the same manner. Bob98133 16:05, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
(for those coming here from the WP:NOR talk page, the following section refers chiefly to this section, which is continuously being taken out and added back in, and its nature, whether or not OR, is being debated):
There seems to be conflicting information about PETA and euthanasia. If they are both "right" (i.e. conflicting sources)then something should probably be said about that, as one could easily site two portions of this article (which are not even discussing controversy directly, as in citing a support and criticism section) and as it stands it is rather confuseing. Both of these sections have citations, though the second section has more.
Profile: While PETA has been accused of killing a large percentage of the animals surendered to them, state statistics compiled by the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services show a vastly different picture. In 2004, of 10298 received by PETA, over 74% were reclaimed by their owners. In 2005, out of 9960 animals surrendered, 78% were returned to owners. During these same time periods, the overall statewide rates of return to owners were 14% and 13%.
Similarly, PETA’s rate of euthanasia was considerably less than the state average. In 2004 and 2005, all Virginia shelters euthanized 43% of the animals entering their shelters – a total of 231,258 animals. During these same time periods, PETA euthanized 22% in 2004 and 19% in 2005 – a total of 4385 animals, less than 2% of the pets killed by shelters in Virginia during this time frame. [8]
Policy on euthanasia: PETA is against the no kill movement and euthanizes the majority of animals that are given to them.[65][66]. It recommends euthanasia for animals, for certain breeds of animals (e.g. pit bull terriers)[67] and in certain situations for unwanted animals in shelters: for example, for those living for long periods in cramped cages.[68][69]
I do not know nearly enough about this subject to reconcile this myself, though hopefully someone more knowledgeable can clarify it. Oniamien 04:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Outside view: this whole debate is original research. There is too much uncertainty about what these figures really mean. Essentially, if you want to say Peta is a good/bad organisation because of its approach to putting down animals, then you need a reliable source (not pro/con activist source) that has said so. This has the potential to be defamatory of the organisation so it seems only fair that the view is impeccably sourced. It is the analysis, and that analysis is not a simple extrapolation, but needs to be a proper interpretation of the figures. Just because the figures are from a reliable source (are they?) does not mean you can build a statement on top of them, especially if, to use the tortuous phrase from policy, you are seeking to advance a position. Spenny 07:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Another outside view: You are free to add whatever numbers you can reliably source into the article (although relevance is a matter for consensus), provided you describe those numbers exactly as your source describes them. You are not free to draw any conclusion from them, unless that conclusion comes also from the source. Claiming the conclusion is "obvious" does not help; if it is obvious, then the reader can figure it out on her own. The potential for defamation cited by Spenny also indicates that even greater care is required here than might be acceptable in other articles. Eaglizard 09:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Even as it stands the contested section is a jumbled mess. But if the numbers are to be presented (much less argued to mean something) we need to deal with the conspicuous irregularity of PETA's numbers. That "other" column which constitutes the overwhelming majority of animals passing into PETA's doors is a problem if not explained, because that column hardly figures for anyone else. In 2005, for example, PETA listed 7815 "other", versus 9843 for all humane societies. It's misleading to talk about the aggregate numbers without accounting for that huge number.
If you believe that the documents from petakillsanimals are auhtentic copies of PETA's submitted forms, then all is explained: the vast majority of the animals PETA handled were there strictly for spaying or neutering. Very few of the other agencies are doing that, so it would make sense to compare their numbers excluding these. We could also put a number on the size of their spay/neuter program.
The question of course is whether this is OR. Well, we could sort of cite petakillsanimals. Or we could just remove all the numbers, since there's no way to present them accurately without engaging in this "research". I have a big problem with how it is presented now, because it manages to be polemic in both directions at once. We could just note that they provided a human society in Norfolk, and that they had this spay/neuter program (giving the actual number if we're willing to trust petakillsanimals). The implication that they are just like the SPCA carries a moral judgement that they ought not to be like them, which is a big NPOV issue. Mangoe 14:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the problem is that this amounts to OR since the VDACS database only presents raw data, so you can come up with a whole bunch of statistics depending what you want to emphasize. Plus, the info that was up on the page earlier had data for 2004-2005 but then presented some number from 1998, so it wasn't really properly referenced. I just question if having these numbers on the page makes any sense. The point that PETA kills animals is made in the Community Animals section. If PETA only takes in about 2000 animals per year, that makes it a tiny shelter since many take in over 30,000 year. Also it's really a small part of what PETA does, so I also wonder why it would be at the top of the article. Bob98133 18:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
A section about Peta's dispute with Friends of Animals and Primarily Primates, Inc. is necessary. Here are a few quick links. http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2006/october/open-letter-to-mary-.html http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2006/october/ppis-response-to-pet.html I'm new to this Wiki thing so I'll let someone with a bit more experience write the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laxmatt ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=10328 - in the letter at the bottom of this PETA page, it says that they have 1.8 million members. I don't think it needs a reference since it's just what PETA is claiming. They also didn't make an announcement about it that I saw, it's just mentioned in this letter. Just wanted to explain why I was making the change. If someone thinks it needs a reference in the article, either put it in or let me know and I will. Thanks. Bob98133 15:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I will be interviewing Ingrid Newkirk on Tuesday, November 13. Leave questions on my Talk page. --David Shankbone 16:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've heard accusations that PETA has ties or is a front organisation for the communist party. Anybody else seen any sources claiming or supporting this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.215.78.126 ( talk) 00:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
"appeared to show monkeys being hit, tormented, and humiliated." How do you humiliate a semi-intelligent animal? I thought only humans could be humiliated. -- Simpsons fan 66 00:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
More seriously, I think it's perfectly possible to humiliate an animal, in the sense of "reduce to a lower position in its own eyes or in someone else's eyes." That's exactly what technicians did when they wrote the word "crap" on the forehead of a monkey in a lab. And when they forced a baboon they had just brain-damaged to stand drooling in front of the camera, while they mimicked him asking animal rights activists to please come and rescue him. That behavior reinforces the idea of animals-as-things, and therefore does very precisely reduce them to a lower position, at least in the eyes of anyone so inclined or anyone not thinking clearly. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 04:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Your Mommy Kills Animals co.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Can someone who knows more about this article clean this up: "Many of the campaigns bear fruit for PETA. Burger King, McDonalds, Wendy's, Petco, and in 2006, after talks with PETA, Polo Ralph Lauren announced that it would no longer use fur in any of its lines." It doesn't ever say what Burger King et al. did, it just cuts to Ralph Lauren stopping fur usage. I know there are links to the stories, but a brief synopsis here is important, as some of the links appear to be dead or require a subscription. Surfbruddah. 155.188.247.6 21:24, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
The HBO Documentary I Am An Animal stated that PETA does indeed support terrorists like ALF, Earth First!, Elf, and that the FBI has infiltrated PETA, and that in the founder's will, she is to be dismembered and barbequed. Can this be stated under anything about PETA in this article ? The documentary aired yesterday and today, CST. 65.163.112.205 05:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I believe that in its present condition, this article portrays its subject in a far too positive light. It really ought to be made more neutral, perhaps by damning/criticising some of PETA's obviously wrong/evil mentalities/actions. 91.108.214.229 17:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I, however concur with "User: 91.108.214.229". These animal rights freaks are invariably depicted as noble, and well above the carviverous mass of the rest of us, in wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bioform 1234 ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Making vague criticisms about PETA isn't going to help the article if you think its too positive-POV. Find reliable sources for facts and include them in neutral language in the appropriate section, and help contribute to the wiki, instead of lurking! Max.inglis ( talk) 19:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The issue of NPOV with this article is the structure. It is structured so that criticism of PETA is concealed/diluted, and the body of criticism against PETA is presented in that light. I still would push for a central section combining the criticism to help address the NPOV issue. 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 03:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204753,00.html PETA: Sacrifice Human, Not Animal Life for Medical Research, July 20, 2006 By Steven Milloy
The reference above is used in support of statements in the Animal Testing section of this article. This source is an OpEd, not a news article, by a clearly biased, and paid, source Steven Milloy. PETA's support of stem cell use is fine, but I think the rest of the ph, including the recent attempt to clear it up, be deleted. Thoughts? Thanks. Bob98133 ( talk) 18:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reason the animal testing section doesn't contain a reference to MaryBeth Sweetland's insulin-dependence? There's an article here http://www.goveg.com/diabetes_controlled.asp written by her downplaying her use of animal-based insulins which might prove a good reasonably un-biased quote (all the links to quotes I could find from her were all inflammatory and on anti-PETA sites). Given PETA's stated policies on animal testing, this seems like a pretty important fact, because without animal-harvested and animal-tested insulins, she'd would have died at age 25 when she became insulin-dependent.
Actually I just re-read the article, and right after the quote from Newkirk about them opposing a cure for AIDS based on animal testing would be the perfect place for it. Max.inglis ( talk) 17:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I've just reread that section - position on animal testing - and it really looks like the info about Sweetland is inappropriately tacked onto a paragraph about AIDS. She is also cited as Director of Research and Rescue - which was not correct even based on the reference provided. Personally, I don't see that the info about Sweetland has any place in this article, but even if it does, it currently is in the wrong place. Does this article need a section on PETA employees who wear leather shoes or do other things that PETA says are wrong? Bob98133 ( talk) 18:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I cant find any valuable informations at " PETA's page at Network for Good" What is the use of this link? -- Arcy ( talk) 23:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Why got the imgage " File:Your Mommy Kills Animals co.jpg, used in article Your Mommy Kills Animals deleted? Who deleted it?. -- Arcy ( talk) 14:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Why has the image Image:Holocaust_plate.png contributed by PeTA such a litte dimension? The PeTA-Posters must have been much more readable -- Arcy ( talk) 22:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Some editors seem to be trying to turn this into an attack page. I ask all good-faith editors to look at the animal testing section:
In 2005, a coalition of advocates for AIDS patients launched a campaign assailing PETA for its opposition to using animals to test possible AIDS drugs and calling on PETA's celebrity supporters to account for their high-profile role in what they described as "hindering the search for a cure to AIDS."[109] PETA vice-president Dan Mathews responded that: "AIDS is an easy disease to avoid, but our government squanders millions on duplicative animal tests, rather than issue frank warnings, especially to young people." Dr. Genevieve Clavreul, the coalition's organizer, expressed concern that in order to find an AIDS vaccine "We are going to have to go to an animal model to do it and I don’t want to have to be fighting every five minutes against PETA."[110] In a letter, the Patient Advocates Against PETA, observed that PETA President Ingrid Newkirk made a statement that even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS, "we'd be against it."[109] The Director of Research and Rescue of PETA at that time, Marybeth Sweetland,[111] is an insulin-dependent diabetic,[112] and has defended her use of the animal products (insulin) by saying she needs her life to defend the lives of animals.[113]
In 2006, Britain’s Advertising Standards Authority ruled that PETA misrepresented both animal testing and the science behind animal experiments, ordering it to stop making the misleading claims and rewrite one of its publications. PETA had claimed that “nearly 3 million sensitive animals—monkeys, rabbits, mice and others—are killed in the UK each year in painful experiments” and that “animal experiments are crude and unreliable.” The ASA ruled that animals used in laboratories may suffer in experiments, but that PETA had failed to document that nearly 3 million died “as a result of painful experiments.”[114]
PETA supports embryonic stem cell research because it has "the potential to end the vast majority of animal testing".[115] However, their position has been criticised as being contradictory to their belief all species are equal, since it puts one animal species (humans) to be "preferentially sacrificed to save another"; i.e. that PETA exalts "animal life in trivial ways, while simultaneously devaluing human life to the point where it’s worthless."[115] The response is that whilst animals can suffer pain in experiments, embryos can't.
No one could possibly call this section neutral. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 19:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
While this section seems to be quite critical of PETA, it seems properly and reliably referenced. In order for it to fail NPOV, it would need to misrepresent a significant viewpoint about the subject. The fact that this section is openly critical (with its criticism sourced) does not make it violate NPOV. Neutrality does not mean lack of criticism; it means that all significant viewpoints are expressed.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 20:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to see more information about the rumors that PETA was/is on the Terrorist Watch List. -- 4.224.84.90 ( talk) 19:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
To me including the info from the secretary/activist/former employee makes the whole section less strong. The other criticisms are from recognized groups or spokespeople whereas this one sounds like a disgruntled employee. I think there is justification for keeping it or getting rid of it, but I think the article reads better without it. Bob98133 ( talk) 02:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
This article is pro-PETA, hardly anything criticising them. Typical liberal, far left loony crap, as Bill O'Reilly would state. 205.240.144.195 ( talk) 02:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Is PETA eco-terrorists? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taiketsu ( talk • contribs) 14:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
The notes section appears to be corrupted from item number 75 on. Doesn't display properly on Firefox or MSIE and displays coding in the article. I'm new to wiki markup, so I'm sure what the issue is. Micahmedia ( talk) 22:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
A single-issue account has been spamming articles with a cite to this book since September, and never any page numbers, so there's no indication that there's anything in it relevant to the sentences he adds it after. Please don't restore it without a page number, and then only if it says something another source doesn't already say. SlimVirgin talk| edits 03:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
http://www.masskilling.com/ seems like spamdexing to me... -- Vesal ( talk) 13:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
With all the talk of PETA being viewed as "extremist" in the U.S., something that might be worth noting in the article, if there's an appropriate space, is that the British government seems not to take that view.
In 2004, a British Home Office minister was asked in the House of Commons whether the government had made contact with animal rights groups. The response was:
SlimVirgin talk| edits 20:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
This article was not objective at all. It failed to state critisisms of PETA and disputes against PETA. Not only that, another blaring omission is not having more information about their connections to eco-terrorism and sponsoring such acts. I expect more neaurality from Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.168.195.109 ( talk) 03:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Go to this site, click on the SEARCH icon, type in it:Single Issue Terrorists and/or Domestic Terrorists, and you'll see under these Eco-Terrorists: Earth First!, Earth Liberation Front, Animal Liberation Front, and of course PETA. Been there, seen it. This should be stated. Is that WP:OR or not? 205.240.144.214 ( talk) 21:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have a different problem with this article -- the lengthy section on "Other campaigns". It's really a laundry list, and few of them add anything encyclopedic to the article - it is more like a brag list. I think this should be cut down, or perhaps moved into a separate article. -- Tom Ketchum 18:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
The removal of the criticism section has been addressed by several people saying, "Oh, but we spread it throughout the article." However, I noticed much of the heinous and horrible acts committed by PETA have been completely erased from the article. This smells too much like PETA members and advocates wanting to shine better light on themselves. Not to mention that most organizations listed on Wikipedia have criticism sections. Why should PETA, a horribly unethical organization, be exempt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.123.37.228 ( talk) 06:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
-- Goosedoggy ( talk) 00:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I have a few problems with this section which I thought I'd discuss prior to changing. It links to Humane Society and claims that PETA is part of "the modern humane movement" which began in the 1970s. The link does not support this, or diferentiate between "modern" and other humane movements. As well, the summary of the source cited (the article is only available if you pay $15), does not appear to mention PETA at all, but talks of animal rights activists, not the humane movement, in general. Perhaps the article is talking about PETA, but again, there does not seem to be anything specific. Are we to believe that the demographics and political point-of-view of every humane society or organization in the US are democrats or independents, distrust capitalism, etc.? The source seems overly generalized and certainly not specific to PETA. I think it should be removed, but it could also be replaced by information which is more specific. I think that context is probably estalished in the article, but I see no problem with it being clearly defined in this section too, but it should cite specific references, not a generalized summary of animal rights which is not readily available to all editors. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Re: revert of item by Ramdrake about why PETA would get more animals in poor condition. This page offers some explanation [ [20]]. My understanding is that their Community Animal Project actually goes out looking for dogs or cats in poor condition - chained, left outside, sick, etc. while they distribute free dog houses and straw for animals living outdoors. I have seen pictures of some of these animals with chains embedded in their necks, open sores, etc. Since they don't run a "traditional" shelter (from the stats they obviously don't do many adoptions and euthanize a high percentage of animals)where people can go to adopt animals, they pretty much go looking for animals in miserable conditions. Whether someone agrees with this or not doesn't change the fact that they get a lot of animals near death. In that case, expecting their statistics to be similar to a traditional shelter would be like expecting hospitals and hospices to have equal death rates. I couldn't find really good references for this, so I don't object that strongly to your deletion, but I think there are reasons for the difference. Bob98133 ( talk) 13:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Ramdrake, that source you provided seems to be a personal website, which would not be an RS. Also, it doesn't mention what kind of insulin she takes, if any. We would need a reliable source that gives the information, clarifies that it's animal-based insulin, and alleges that it's hypocrisy. SlimVirgin talk| edits 18:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I really don't want to get involved in this, because I don't think this issue is particularly relevant, but this source is a first-person article on a PETA-controlled website that seems to indicate that Ms. Sweetland uses Humulin, a synthetic insulin that is created using recombinant DNA processes, and is different from aniimal-derived insulin. While it seems implausible that it was not, at some point in its creation, tested in animal studies, I cannot at the moment find a source stating that. Without regard to its testing regime, there seem to be adequate sources that say it is not (in the clinical sense) "animal-derived". Whether the first-person account noted earlier in a reliable source under Wikipedia's arcane rules is far beyond me to determine. -- Tom Ketchum 22:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Addendum - This document, from the manufacturer's website, seems to indicate that a close relation to Humulin, Humalog, was in fact tested in animal trials. What this means for this argument I won't guess. -- Tom Ketchum 23:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I doubt that either side will consider me impartial, but after looking over the Center for Consumer Freedom's website, while they are an interest/lobbying group (like PETA), they don't seem to be a PETA attack site or a single-issue site in general. It would seem consistent with other articles that a "The <adjective> Center for Consumer Freedom says ..." citation of this could in fact be used, if I understand WP:SELFPUB correctly. I will repeat, however -- why??? There are much bigger issues with this article, why bother with the subject of one woman's insulin? -- Tom Ketchum 02:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
The arguments above all strike me as being entirely partisan, and not involved -- on either side -- with what should be in a creditable encyclopedia. If the point to be made is that PETA, or AR activists in general, take what many would consider extreme positions regarding the use of animal-tested or animal-derived products, that seems to be adequately covered in the article. That some of these activists find themselves involved in actions -- hypocritical actions, in some views -- seemingly at odds with those positions, whether animal euthanasia, use of animal-tested drugs, or violent and human-life-threatening protests, also seems covered. My view is that the partisan bickering here is over different, but equally unacceptable, versions of undue weight POV violations. It is (in my view) undue weight to reference that Sweetland uses animal-tested insulin (especially in the absence of what would be an out-of-place explanation that all insulin is animal-tested). However, it is also undue weight, and entirely unencyclopedic, to have an article of which over 60% is tiresome repetition of the group's many campaigns. In my view the way these bloated articles get this way is that one "side" adds their (sourced) piece of partisan POV, then the other side (perhaps trying but failing to take it out), retaliates by adding their countervailing POV, and on and on it goes.
The Britannica has seven (short!) paragraphs about the entirety of "The moderns animal rights movements", in which PETA is briefly mentioned and described in one (!) paragraph, in the same breath as the Humane Society. Admittedly, Wiki("not paper")pedia take a more inclusive direction, but in my view this is way too far. This article should be 5 to 7 paras long, covering the organization, its history, aims, principals, example campaigns, and major critics -- then this argument would be moot, and we wouldn't be arguing about Ms. Sweetland's insulin or most of the rest of what's on this page. Fini. -- Tom Ketchum 22:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Perhaps it's just the facts that make it look this way, but reading this article seems to paint a very bad picture of PETA. I can't say that any of the wording sounds especially bad, but it paints PETA as hypocritical, disorganized, and misguided. Perhaps an expert on the subject/on neutrality should give it a look over? It might be a correct image to paint, though... -- 24.163.212.206 12:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Certainly the following is worded in anti-PETA manner, "In general, Newkirk makes no apology for PETA's support of activists who may break the law, writing that "no movement for social change has ever succeeded without 'the militarism component'."". Does the wikipedia article on Ghandi using wording like, 'Ghandi made no apology for his civil disobediance,'?
Also, the enlarged quotes are biased in their selection. I specifically take issue with, "“ (Even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS), we'd be against it.. — Ingrid Newkirk, PETA President [108] ”" The source for that is *not* Ingrid Newkirk, but rather a letter from Patient Advocates Against PeTA to Charlize Theron quoting her as saying that. Do I need to explain why secondary sourcing is bad? Either find a source where the reporter actually heard her say it, or else qualify the enlarged selection like the article itself does.
And again, isn't the picture of the dead cats just an emotional appeal to bash PETA. The crime seems to be a relatively small part of what PETA is (and in any case, it does not represent PETA policy, but rather what people working for them have done). In an encyclopedia, with few pictures, this seems like space misused.
Because it sure reads that way. I know that most articles in wikipeida are shit and should only be read for their entertainment value, but this is really over the top. Singhahyung 16:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes because actually, the AMA controls the entire world, and regularly uses fluffeh baby kittins for satanic rituals.
Furthermore, everybody in THE ENTIRE WORLD supports Peta, and the only people who don't are blinded by the evil meat industry. Obviously. I vote this should be added to the article.
Generalization? 'everyone' seems a little harsh 'cause I hate PETA and am against their cause. They are rude(holocaust), philosophically unsound(see ' animal rights'), sympathetic towards cuter animals(so true - noone has a campaign for jellyfish - look it up), and disorganized. PETA should acknowledge their support for animal welfare, not 'animal rights'-- 70.68.43.50 04:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
If everyone's roughly agreed this article wasn't written by the American Meat Institute: Reckon this can get cleaned up (deleted) from the discussion in a week or two? NathanLee 14:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
This article has the fairness of Fox news. This article should be moved to Conservapedia. 209.162.53.103 07:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I've heard this a lot, that having a pet like a dog or even having a fish is prohibited in PeTA's idealogy. If it is, it should be added to the article -- Joeblack982 07:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I came to this article specifcally to get this information, and I was surprised it was not here.
207.237.100.65
06:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Question then;
If the above corporate statement is correct they why the open support of California AB 1634?
This was a manditory span & neuter law for all animals. Make no mistake, this is an overreaching and invasive mandatory pet spay/neuter law. The author of the bill, Assemblyman Lloyd Levine, prepares another version of AB 1634 for the Senate Local Government Committee, those behind the measure have only increased their shrill rhetoric and efforts against pet owners.
On a national level, PETA is urging supporters to "Meet with your local officials to get a mandatory spay/neuter law passed in your own community," and encouraging Assemblyman Levine, "not to give up."
TAKE NOTE PEOPLE!!! PETA's is nothing more than a group of TAX EXEMPT TERRORISTS!
They have great PR people and they make believe that what they are doing is positive and get celeb's and common people to "Donate to their worthy cause".-- Dogperson3d 17:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
i'm new here so what do you think of this addition
In the Cartoon Network series My Gym Partner's a Monkey in a scene of the episode Inoculation Day a group of 3 females Circle Ingrid Giraffe holding signs and shouting chants like “animals are people too”. This occurs when Adam is chased up her neck by Principal Poncherello Pixiefrog and Nurse Gazelle with a blow dart. When Adam is hit by the dart filled with antidote and transformed into a human the group leaves
Comeback2009 00:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
... wait we have to find sources for Cultural influence too... like i said i'm new here, do you mind explaining. I was just watching the show and thought there was a very stong link. Comeback2009 00:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Comeback2009 01:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
{{
Editprotect}}
The timeline should include the times that PETA has funded eco-terrorist like David Wilson, Josh Harper, and Rod Coranado.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200203%5CCUL20020308a.html
As it stands the timeline reads like a fluff piece. It also is missing the criminal charges a while back where peta was dumping dead animals in adumpster
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/EDG11DC9BK1.DTL and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PETA_dumpster_incident_cat_with_kittens.jpg is a fitting picture to go with it.
Thanks!
205.161.214.82
05:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
{{
Editprotect}}
1990 PETA made a $2,000 contribution to the defense of
David Wilson , and $5,000 contribution to the "
Josh Harper Support Committee." Both these individuals were on trial for eco-terrorist activities.
1994 PeTA gave over $70,000 toward the failed legal defense of ALFer Rodney Coronado, who was sentenced to 57 months in prison for torching a Michigan State University research facility
2005 PETA employees charged with 31 counts of animal cruelty and 8 of improperly disposing of animal remains. The crimes were committed by PETA officials, using a PETA owned vehicle. http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/articles/2005/06/18/news/news1.txt
I will draw up more shortly. 205.161.214.82 06:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
{{editprotect}} http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/EDG11DC9BK1.DTL http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200203%5CCUL20020308a.html http://epw.senate.gov/109th/Exhibit_11.pdf I assume the US senate would be considered a good citation. It is also on their tax form, linked here, in the article, already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals#_note-62 I would say forking over cash to fund an arsonist is a pretty big deal , as well as funding an organization listed as one of the most dangerous terrorist groups in America. http://www.cq.com/public/20050325_homeland.html 205.161.214.82 07:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
The Timeline section is there to help the reader understand PETA's rationale for its activities, from PETA's own perspective. It starts with "according to PETA, important actions include". It is not a general timeline of PETA-related events, but a list of the actions or events PETA itself sees as important, typically what it considers as its accomplishments. Other PETA-related events or actions that don't fall into this category should be interwoven into the text, if they are not already there. Crum375 13:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
(resetting indent) I agree that the subject of an article should be able to present its own perspective of its accomplishment; however, I disagree that a long list of actions according to PETA does the deed. The list reads like a PR list, with no rebuttals (or in this case, of any POV other than PETA's). What I think would be more useful in understanding PETA would be much fewer (2-3 would suffice), in-depth examples, with views from within PETA (and possibly from without). As it stands, the section isn't balanced by any criticism, and doesn't explain sufficiently the views and motivations of PETA behind its purported actions. Thus, as it stands, the section doesn't reach its intended goal. Something needs to be done about it to achieve roughly the same balance that's been achieved in the rest of the article.-- Ramdrake 00:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, as it stands, we have a large amount of vertical space that is eye catchingly, noticeable visually distinguishable from the rest of the article, the sort of thing someone skimming the article would slow down and read a bit, which is nothing more than an uncontested, decidedly one-sided fluff piece that has deliberatly been written in PETA's point of view. Writing an article in ANYONE'S point of view is decidedly encyclopedic, and even worse when the POV is nothing more than a reprint of publicity information copied from the PR department of the articles topic. 205.161.214.82 03:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
All the whitespace of the timeline is ugly, and the content itself doesn't seem encyclopedic. I don't think we're here to write a textbook on PETA's claimed accomplishments, just an encyclopedia entry on what they are. I'd reccomend deleting the entire thing. RogueTrick 18:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe the floating quotes from the peta site are appropriate. Wikipedia's article on PETA does not (and should not) look like the PETA site itself. I don't believe it's appropriate to have an article that reads like an advertisement for the thing that it is on. I had removed them, but slimvirgin reverted (en mass) a bunch of changes including those quotes. I think they have no place if not relevant and integrated into part of the main article body. Otherwise the whole article becomes POV. NathanLee 10:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
(from SV talk) I've integrated the previous changes into your constructive ones (e.g. removing excessive word linking) as your mass revert not only got rid of stuff which you said was repetition (although I can't see anywhere in the philosophy that mentions strict adherence to equal animal/human rights, veganism). You also undid a bunch of typo corrections I had made, a fix of POV stuff, and deleted referenced material (the 60 minutes transcript is not in any way a personal site).
I've created a discussion area if you want to talk about whether those floating quotes belong in wikipedia, but I doubt they do given that they destroy the encyclopaedic structure and make it look like a PETA newsletter. NathanLee 10:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The quote from Ingrid E. Newkirk about her days before Peta and her killing animals should be expanded to included the appropriate context, otherwise it's just a chopped up quote that's made to sound cold: "I would say, 'They are stepping on the animals, crushing them like grapes, and they don't care.' In the end, I would go to work early, before anyone got there, and I would just kill the animals myself. Because I couldn't stand to let them go through that. I must have killed a thousand of them, sometimes dozens every day. Some of those people would take pleasure in making them suffer. Driving home every night, I would cry just thinking about it. And I just felt, to my bones, this cannot be right."
I have once again removed the reference to Futurama and the popplers episode. I have done this because
If we can find a reliable source that draws the link between PETA and this episode then by all means we should include it, but including it in a poorly sourced or original research filled state simply lowers the overall quality of the article and goes against our policies. It is the responsibility of the poster to provide reliable sources, not the responsibility of other editors to fix the problems left by such posts. - Localzuk (talk) 11:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
A look around suggests the IFAW has more members, assets, and is active in more countries. PETA as largest may be a meme (note the Britannica source is a blog). Marskell 11:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I've used phrasal attribution for the largest claim, but I'm wondering whether the information ought to be removed entirely. First, as noted above, IFAW claims more members, staff, countries active, and assets. And then I had a brainwave: the US Humane Society, which claimed assets of 200 million dollars for '05. [3](big PDF) That's more than an order of magnitude larger than PETA. [4] Finally, whether peta.org is a reliable source is highly debatable.
In short, I think the claim that it's largest is simply false. It's certainly the most visible, which is why I suspect an internet meme. The only counter-argument might be that the Humane Society etc. are strictly animal welfare organizations, but I'd call it a distinction without a difference; its areas of concern are completely in-keeping with PETA's. Marskell 12:53, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Proposed addition of content: As PETA's tactics (boycotts and "corporate bullying") are what causes controversy often, I have the following to add:
PETA's campaigning tactics were described as not "much different than blackmail" in 2005 by Dr Len Stevens, the CEO of Australian Wool Innovations body. [2]. A similar worded accusation in a 60 minutes interview that "They were blackmailed by you" was dismissed by PETA representative Ingrid Newkirk as "It doesn't matter" so long as "They are on board" (referring to PETA achieving its boycott goal). [3]
Any comments on this? I believe this adheres to wikipedia's policies:
I believe also it provides the reader with insight into the attitude of PETA campaigns with the concept of "any means to an ends".
Sounds like a pretty POV selection for a quote to me. "Blackmail" is a pretty loaded word. People attach all sorts of labels to things, even people that you are allied with. You could call any boycott "blackmail", but most people would realize that it's a description with baggage.
I removed the framed quotes again. I couldn't agree more strongly with Nathan's position that this makes it look like WP is endorsing PETA. I don't have a problem with these quotes being worked back into the article as normal text, though.-- Ramdrake 12:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) I've added two more floating quotes to even out the score as best as I could see it, and I promise I'll stop there, as long as too many other quotes don't get added. This should dispel the perception that only having positive floating quotes makes the article look like an ad for PETA (which I mostly agree with), and the prominence of both the pro-PETA quotes and some of the strongest criticisms should help give a better first impression that this articles aims for a balance of views.-- Ramdrake 20:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Right, the article is currently 92kb in size which is far too large. How can we trim it down/split some of it off?
I propose that we move the other campaigns section and some of the campaigning section to its own article and summarise that here. This could also be done with the Timeline section if necessary?- Localzuk (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
How about a new page for "People for Ethical Treatment of Animals Campaigns" and "History of People for Ethical Treatment of Animals Activism" ?
Any thoughts on whether that would help chop this article down to size? Think this is similar to separating out the celebrity supporters..
NathanLee
12:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Is the subject worthy of so many pages to it? Important events and recent news is one thing, but normal happenings just start pushing wikipedia into being more of a news site. RogueTrick 18:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I reckon this page needs a big red sign at the top saying
"Yes, we know: People for Eating Tasty Animals.. Ha ha.. It was only funny the first 300 times.."
No this has no content, I just thought it'd get a smile from the numerous people keeping the vandals out. Keep up the good work! :P NathanLee 19:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I've replaced a couple of instances of "companion animal" with "pet" or "animal" as it's not exactly a term used anywhere except perhaps in PETA material.. If anyone's got objections: discuss here.. NathanLee 01:20, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
(reset indent) Would this be a good junction to think about what our article on companion animal says? Rockpocke t 07:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
A google search for "companion animal" yields almost a million hits, and PETA isn't even mentioned in the first few pages that I checked. Agencies which are mentioned include the US Dept of Agriculture (USDA), various universities, government councils, etc. I think that companion animal is a new term to describe a "pet's" unique legal and emotional relationship with people - even though pets are owned, courts in the US have begun recognizing that "loss of companionship" is something that should be compensated for, so if someone kills your dog he may be responsible for costs in excess of the cost of replacement, unlike if he wrecks your car which legally only requires replacement value. I think the term companion animal better, like it or not, better reflects the way society currently views animals kept as companions than pets. It's not an animal rigths or welfare issue, just evolving language. Bob98133 12:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Why Further reading is now labeled External links that makes no sense?-- Migospia †♥ 03:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
From a PETA representative house of lords transcript.
DR TROY SEIDLE
TUESDAY 12 FEBRUARY 2002
1200. Would you oppose guide dogs for the blind?
(Dr Seidle) Considering some of the training that I myself have witnessed, yes, unless that can be substantially modified.
Earl of Onslow
1201. Do you realise that if your policy was carried out and everybody became vegans then there would be no sheep, no pigs and no cattle in this country or in any other country in the world? Is that what you want, the extermination of cattle, sheep and pigs in the whole universe? That would be the direct consequence of your policy.
(Dr Seidle) That is not our motivation.
1202. That was not the question I asked. The question was do you realise that this would happen, that is the direct consequence of your policy?
(Dr Seidle) Yes.
1203. So you are happy to see the extermination and the extinction of sheep, cattle and pigs?
(Dr Seidle) I would not say happy but we would accept that.
1204. That is the direct consequence of your policy.
(Dr Seidle) That would be fine. It would not happen overnight.
Earl of Onslow: You say that it would be fine. Okay, I have said enough.
Chairman: Lord Onslow, we are not a court of law.
Might be useful to clarify positions on things. Though the chairman had to remind the earl of onslow to pull his head in a bit. NathanLee 23:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I'm coming into the conversation a bit late, but did any of the above transcript make it into the article? Because if this is just a general discussion of the topic it should be moved elsewhere... VanTucky 14:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to charge PETA's gross misrepresentation of the facts as a crime?
False advertising, lying, disturbing the peace, rabble rousing, trying to change the way people live, obscene ad campaigns etc. 12va34 20:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't tell me that the "Your Dad Kills" campaign isn't obscene and offensive. 12va34 22:54, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
PETA is worse than the mafia, take the Vick situation, he hasn't been proven guilty, yet the PETA people are strong arming their way into getting him banned from Falcons camp. PETA cares only for their interests and refuses to compromise, with all the hot air coming out of their mouth, they probably kill Billions of air molecules, because I guess they consider them animals to. It's natural selection, survival of the fittest. 21:20 July 23
What about mentioning in the article that some people have brought up lawsuits against PETA's massive propaganda campaign? A guy in Texas successfully sued PETA on the grounds that the propaganda was innapropriate for children. If this isn't mentioned in the article, a seperate Controversie section should be created. 75.2.217.84 17:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I question the Center for Consumer Freedom web site being listed as a See Also link on this page. I don't think PETA has ever said anything about them, and PETA's got plenty of critics, so it seems odd that just this one would be here. Unless someone thinks otherwise? Bob98133 20:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I think the next move should be off the page. The Peta Kills Animals site right above that is put up by the same guys. I don't think it's well documented at all, but at least it's specific to PETA. The Center for Consumer Freedom site is all over the place - they've got stuff about PETA, but mostly about other things they don't like, so I still think it should go. Maybe the NRA doesn't like PETA either, but that's no reason to link to them or every other group that hates PETA. Page would be too long :) Bob98133 21:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
1. Thats improper sourcing
2. That's wrong. Please see the wp policy on See also
3. The cultural reference section is a trivia section
4. If they don't break copyright then okay.
5. They are not properly sourced as currently formatted.
Turtlescrubber 21:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
You are correct that achieving and maintaining a proper balance is going to be a long term concern for this page. One thing that jumped out at me with regards to the balance is the appearance of exclusive use of PETA sources for the time line section. Instead of having the grouping of four references, all to the peta website, at the top of the list it would be better to move the individual references to the portions of the time line where the information is actually used. --Allen3 talk 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
As it will save everyones time. All of my good faith/helpful edits have been reverted for very specious reasons. Why? This article is locked down tighter than any article I have ever seen. The claim of "already sourced" is a joke. Could I add 5 sources to the top of an article and then not have to put any sources anywhere in the article? I spent a good amount of time trying to improve this article, starting with someone else's talk page suggestion. The editors on this article are acting in ludicrous abandon of wikipedia policy. Turtlescrubber 23:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I added a tag to the trivia section, also known as cultural influences, as per Localzuk (talk)'s suggestion and my complete agreement. This section needs to be "integrated into the article." Also, as per Bob98133 suggestion above, the Center for Consumer Freedom should be removed from the see also section as undue weight. I wholeheartedly agree and have added a npov tag. Turtlescrubber 16:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I whole heartedly agree that the article should be re-written to make known PETA's gestapo propaganda tactics, eco-terrorism, and conspiricy to make everyone miserable. What about PETA and the dems money laundering scandall? That was thouroughly covered by the news butisn't mentioned once in the article.
75.1.249.181
17:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
+ A 2007 documentary film called Your Mommy Kills Animals, taking its title from the PETA pamphlet of the same name, looks into PETA's tactics and their being characterized by the FBI as a domestic terrorist group.
Hey, Fourdee - this is POV for several reasons. 1. this movie is NOT about PETA - it is primarily about the Stop Huntington campaign, PETA is mentioned in the film but it isn't about PETA 2. the movie certainly isn't about PETA being characterized as a terrorist group by the FBI - so mentioning both of these conveys the message that including this is promoting a POV. I don't see the necessity of a separate catagory for Documentary film - which indicates that there is only one film documentary about PETA, or referencing PETA, so use of the singular "film" again promotes a point of view. If the intent is to establish a category of documentary films about PETA, perhaps it could have been discussed prior to your posting since this page is already controversial. I don't object to this film being included in the proper place in this article, or a list of documentary films about PETA, or inspired by the names of PETA pamphlets, as long as the content conforms to Wiki NPOV. Bob98133 18:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I respectfully suggest the incorporation of a criticisms section, just because a particular section attracts vandals does not mean that the article should be altered to appease the wiki vandals. The article needs a central criticism section as this is almost the defacto standard for articles on controversial subjects/groups and inserting criticism throughout the article presents significant NPOV problems since it functionally dilutes criticism. Presentation does matter 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 03:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I did, and I still respectfully disagree, a criticism section does serve as a magnet for, pardon the pun, criticism and revisions, but the lack of one does bias the article, even inadvertently. I guess a better way of describing my point is that while you mention that the seperate section does not work by encouraging vandalism, I think the current format presents NPOV problems, so one problem has been reduced at the cost of introducing another. 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 22:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
1. Peta kills 3/4 of the animals they supposedly "save."
2. PETA supports "total animal liberation," which essentially means the outlawing of animals as pets, entertainment (circuses), farm use, and even seeing eye dogs for the blind.
3. PETA does not denounce the use of violence, including fire bombing research laboratories
4. Opposes the use of animals for drug testing for medications such as vaccines, medication, insulin, etc
Intranetusa
02:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
The above paragraph is incorrect. They DO oppose pet ownership, and if that were exposed, PETA would be out of business tomorrow. They are NOT a "humane" organization. They believe in "animal rights" and oppose domestication of animals. Just look at the quotes of the truly deranged founder Ingrid Newkirk. She makes no bones about it.--2 March 2008 Susan Nunes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.228.60.145 ( talk) 02:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
THIS ARTICLE NEEDS THE CRITISMS OF PETA LIKE MOST OTHER ARTICLES DO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.31.65 ( talk) 13:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I realize that the aforementioned Criticism section may have drawn intense vandalism, but I have to second the original poster's sentiments: working criticism into the article subtly is, at its most effective, subversive (doesn't Wiki have policy against weasel words?) and, at worst, utterly ineffective to the point that the casual reader cannot so much as detect it whilst reading it. The idea driving criticism is to offer a counterpoint to a primary viewpoint presented. Just because PETA-fanatics may regularly spam this article to keep it skewed to representing a bias doesn't mean that Wiki should cave to their antics—the purpose of a respectible reference document is to offer, if not as neutral a point of view as is possible, at least two opposing viewpoints such that the reader may gain an understanding of both sides of a particular issue. Reading the article as is, it seems purely uncritical of PETA, which, given the organization's history, is unacceptable. Wiki shouldn't be moulding its standards to suit the whims of abrasively vocal groups simply because of how abrasively vocal they are. It sets a bad precedent that will be difficult to stem once other similar groups witness how well these tactics work on Wiki—would it be acceptable to erase or heavily whitewash several articles on the Protestant Reformation simply because a group of fanatic Catholics got together and persistently vandalized the articles? I came to Wiki looking for information on PETA's past controversies and instead got a PETA pamphlet. If Wiki is to maintain any sort of respectible position as a source of reference, this must be remedied. SumeragiNoOnmyouji ( talk) 11:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Bob- I respectfully disagree. I added [5] and you deleted it-- an academic reference critical of PeTA....?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnand thegolden ( talk • contribs) 22:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
To all, there must be a critism section in this article, or all other critism sections from all other articles must be removed to make it fair and balanced. To assume that PETA is above critism is absurd. This article is a biased piece of work without a legit critism section, and must be cleaned up to present itself as NPOV or wikipedia begins to lose the little credibilty it has remaining. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.224.179.25 ( talk) 16:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe a criticism section is desperately needed on this page. It is overwhelmingly biased in favor of the organization and barely even acknowleges any criticism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.184.230.206 ( talk) 05:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
This talk page stinks of bias. Checking up on the people blocking a critism section and I found a lot of them have connection to animal rights -OOPSIE- ( talk) 04:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Whilst having the criticisms widely distributed is all well and good, it is a long article and I don't want to read all of it to find what I'm looking for - it's illogical not to have at least a section. Alternatively, I'm sure there are enough to make an entire page on! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.230.126 ( talk) 21:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Why are there other sources in the timeline? I thought it was all supposed to be sourced by the four cites in the title? Should I remove them as duplicates? Should I add fact tags to the ones without secondary sources? Or both? I honestly don't know what is sourced and what isn't. Turtlescrubber 00:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, rather than being silly and edit warring over these, I'll just bring this here. So, as of my writing, these are the links which are being discussed:
Now, I think everyone can agree that (1) and (2) should be clearly kept. However, lets go through the other ones.
(3) - This is an "open letter" by Clive Barker and PETA to a number of newspapers, that calls on them to start publishing animal deaths in the obituaries. However, this has no context in this article -- a "Clive Barker" is never mentioned, nor is this letter ever discussed in the article. In fact, Clive Barker's article doesn't mention this as even being signifigant. I removed this item because the article gives it no context, something required by WP:EL, and the statements made by PETA are already covered in other respects in the article itself.
(4) - (6)' - These are three parts of a speech given by Ingrid Newkirk, edited by someone, and posted on Youtube. They have no attribution, so their copyright status is highly dubious. This alone is grounds to remove them. However, they are also never given any context. Is this an important speech? Are the views in this speech novel, or atypical of PETA? Did this speech garner some reaction which would merit including it? Apparently, the answers to all of these are no. This speech is never mentioned in the article, nor are the views explained to be in any way atypical of PETA. There appears to be nothing unique about this speech. As such, it's simply a statement of a number of things PETA believes -- but, these should, and indeed mostly are, covered in the article -- and will certainly be covered in an FA-class version of this. This is specifically what should be avoided by external linking guidelines.
(7) and (9) - these are sites critical of PETA's stance on euthanasia. They explains why, and how, they oppose PETA's policies. However, this is not relevant for an article about PETA -- is "no kill now" or "PETA kills animals" prominent memberd of this community? Do they have some special viewpoints which are not discussed in the large section about PETA and euthanasia? Again, apparently not. These add nothing to the page which is not already discussed in the section, or at the linked no-kill movement article. Again, per guidelines they should not be included.
(8) - I actually feel that this should not be in an FA-class article, but since there is a dearth of discussion about the topics covered right now in the article, and it's by a recognized authority, I could definitely see this being retained; perhaps even in the future.
(10) - this is a general site which lobbies against a variety of different groups, including PETA. However, their site is not specifically related to PETA, and the article already both links an article about them, at Center for Consumer Freedom and cites a news story about them as well. This link add nothing which is not already included in the article -- however, of these links, this is the one I can most see retaining; but, since it is not specifically about PETA, I am having a hard time still.
(11) - this is a PETA satire and criticism cite. However, this site is never mentioned in the article, nor is there any context given. The satire group mentioned, People Eating Tasty Animals, is not the same as this one, and is already wikilinked. However, this link is never given any context, or included in the article in any way.
(12) - this is an article written by Christina Harvey about why she opposes PETA's policies on certain dog breeds. However, the article already explains PETA's policies, and the opposition to them. The question which remains is "why is this important"? I honestly don't know. This appears to just be a non-notable person, who is not an expert on the subject, nor of any particular interest or qualifications, writing about how she likes her dogs in a blog about pit bulls. This is specifically prohibited by guidelines, as Ms Harvey is not a recognized authority on the topic.
(13) - this should be the most clear-cut. It's a press release by the Anti Defamation League which denounces PETA. However, you already cite this in the article! There's no need to include it as an external link, since it's already been entirely covered, and reference.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts on the issue. -- Haemo 21:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so I used my journal privileges and did some digging to clean up the trivia section. So, we have the "timeline" and the "see also" section to fix.
Honestly, I don't see why you need a timeline to begin with -- shouldn't any and all notable event be in the "history" section? -- so I think I'll just deal with the "see also". Honestly, right now, I don't see what the problem is. You could, perhaps, add some more -- but just remember, only add things which are not already Wikilinked in the article. -- Haemo 23:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Details of the Michael Vick trial needs to be added PETA has/is victimising a person convicted of no crime
Just go to the PETA home page they have strated a presure campaign to have Vicks endorsment and NFL contract suspended. There latest campaign see link
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/afalcons_vick_2 asks for "help today to urge the league to treat the allegations against Vick with the seriousness that they deserve and suspend him without pay immediately."
It's just a case of trial by media. PETA have already decided on his guilt and have used a pressure campaign with Nike to have Vicks merchandising deals suspended. This case should be on the page because it is very high profile. Will PETA apologise if Vick is found innocent?
158.234.250.71 15:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
This article has been heavily vandalized. I'm going to put up a semi-lock for vandalism until someone with more expertise can make the appropriate changes. Cmsr. Jackdaw 15:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
And why so? Because the majority of people in the United States think PETA is a buch of loonies fighting for no cause while we animal-eaters are out fighting for real causes like freedom and democracy while they cry cause we kill pigs and other stupid animals. 74.70.155.206 11:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Brad is spot on. Librarianofages sums up the sort of snooty users that make wikipedia unbearable sometimes. -- 81.155.255.195 ( talk) 01:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
This section now states:
I think that "commentators and academics" should be changed to "cartoonists and comedians" since that is who are used as examples. Otherwise it would need a citation about who these cultural "commentators and academics" are. Bob98133 18:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
PETA has been banned in Texas for harassing children with their "your dad kills" campaign. 75.2.223.253 04:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
It was in an LA Times editorial by columnist Daniel Berchevsky. And last time I checked, harassing children was not a protected right. 75.3.231.89 02:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
This is patent non-sense. I saw the Texas Tech campus chapter of those hippies creating a ruckus at KFC about 3 months ago. And, for the record, I support their right to do so. Pygmypony 13:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Any reason why they are HQed in Virginia? just curious.
Arthurian Legend 22:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
"Many of the campaigns bear fruit for PETA. Burger King,[49] McDonalds,[50] Wendy's,[51] Petco,[52] and in 2006, after talks with PETA, Polo Ralph Lauren announced that it would no longer use fur in any of its lines.[53]"
McDonalds used fur?? I don't know what they convinced Bk, McD etc to do, but it ought to be made clear that they weren't in the furburger business 84.67.176.2 16:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems strange to me that an article on a group like PETA, a group which aims to create controversy to further its cause, has no section for legitimate criticism on the article page. While I recognize that such a section could be, in some circumstances, a sort of 'open season' for heckling the group, it also seems to me that the article might seem a bit biased without one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.118.117.141 ( talk) 15:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
In other words there is no criticizing PETA on Wikipedia we all know they are better than everyone else, and only do what they do because of it. Come on Even George W. Bush has a criticism section, so does Ann Coulter, do you really think more people will open season on PETA than them? Also I resent the idea that this discussion has been tabled a lot of people on here work for PETA. If this is not answered in 3 days I will re add a criticism section and request the article be locked due to vandalism from the subject of the article. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Wolfmanjess12 (
talk •
contribs)
12:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a "controversy" section that cites PETA's supposed killing of animals? Sites like [10], [11], [12], and [13] cite PETA's "hypocritical" stance on animals ("better dead than fed") and seem legit... First page of Google. I didn't even bother to check for anything else; it was just that easy to find.
An IP kept adding stuff about it, but it was reverted, due (in my opinion) more to wording than anything. Your thoughts? -- King of the Wontons | lol wut? | Oh noes! Vandals! 20:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, why did the controversy section get removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.252.38 ( talk) 07:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I think this is Bias towards PETA and there criticism and controversy needs to be put up since this artice making PETA look like Angels in fact there bad as the meat industry (irony)
None of you people have any say in what is credible.
I don't find CNN credible, should I remove all those CNN references? 72.187.112.172 ( talk) 18:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Your version: In 2005 PETA killed over 90% of animals it had brought in. 14,419 animals killed by PETA since 1998
My change: In 2005, PETA killed over 90% of the companion animals surrendered to it - 14,419 animals since 1998.
Turtlescrubber - I get your point - despite the inferior source - you want this information included, but don't you think it's a bit redundant to start by saying PETA killed... then end the sentence by saying killed by PETA? Can you document that PETA brought all of these animals in? My understanding of their operation is that a lot of the animals that they get, and maybe kill, are animals that are brought in to them. But if they killed an animal, it would have had to have been surrendered to them, or they couldn't have killed it, which was my point in using that phrase - it's more concise when you're talking about shelters who get animals by owner surrender or if they bring in strays or municipal impounds. I don't think that PETA takes in, or otherwise gets any farm animals or exotic animals in their shelter, so these numbers are basically about cats and dogs, maybe with the occasional rabbit. Bob98133 03:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
The euthanasia stats were arrived at in the same manner. Bob98133 16:05, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
(for those coming here from the WP:NOR talk page, the following section refers chiefly to this section, which is continuously being taken out and added back in, and its nature, whether or not OR, is being debated):
There seems to be conflicting information about PETA and euthanasia. If they are both "right" (i.e. conflicting sources)then something should probably be said about that, as one could easily site two portions of this article (which are not even discussing controversy directly, as in citing a support and criticism section) and as it stands it is rather confuseing. Both of these sections have citations, though the second section has more.
Profile: While PETA has been accused of killing a large percentage of the animals surendered to them, state statistics compiled by the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services show a vastly different picture. In 2004, of 10298 received by PETA, over 74% were reclaimed by their owners. In 2005, out of 9960 animals surrendered, 78% were returned to owners. During these same time periods, the overall statewide rates of return to owners were 14% and 13%.
Similarly, PETA’s rate of euthanasia was considerably less than the state average. In 2004 and 2005, all Virginia shelters euthanized 43% of the animals entering their shelters – a total of 231,258 animals. During these same time periods, PETA euthanized 22% in 2004 and 19% in 2005 – a total of 4385 animals, less than 2% of the pets killed by shelters in Virginia during this time frame. [8]
Policy on euthanasia: PETA is against the no kill movement and euthanizes the majority of animals that are given to them.[65][66]. It recommends euthanasia for animals, for certain breeds of animals (e.g. pit bull terriers)[67] and in certain situations for unwanted animals in shelters: for example, for those living for long periods in cramped cages.[68][69]
I do not know nearly enough about this subject to reconcile this myself, though hopefully someone more knowledgeable can clarify it. Oniamien 04:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Outside view: this whole debate is original research. There is too much uncertainty about what these figures really mean. Essentially, if you want to say Peta is a good/bad organisation because of its approach to putting down animals, then you need a reliable source (not pro/con activist source) that has said so. This has the potential to be defamatory of the organisation so it seems only fair that the view is impeccably sourced. It is the analysis, and that analysis is not a simple extrapolation, but needs to be a proper interpretation of the figures. Just because the figures are from a reliable source (are they?) does not mean you can build a statement on top of them, especially if, to use the tortuous phrase from policy, you are seeking to advance a position. Spenny 07:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Another outside view: You are free to add whatever numbers you can reliably source into the article (although relevance is a matter for consensus), provided you describe those numbers exactly as your source describes them. You are not free to draw any conclusion from them, unless that conclusion comes also from the source. Claiming the conclusion is "obvious" does not help; if it is obvious, then the reader can figure it out on her own. The potential for defamation cited by Spenny also indicates that even greater care is required here than might be acceptable in other articles. Eaglizard 09:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Even as it stands the contested section is a jumbled mess. But if the numbers are to be presented (much less argued to mean something) we need to deal with the conspicuous irregularity of PETA's numbers. That "other" column which constitutes the overwhelming majority of animals passing into PETA's doors is a problem if not explained, because that column hardly figures for anyone else. In 2005, for example, PETA listed 7815 "other", versus 9843 for all humane societies. It's misleading to talk about the aggregate numbers without accounting for that huge number.
If you believe that the documents from petakillsanimals are auhtentic copies of PETA's submitted forms, then all is explained: the vast majority of the animals PETA handled were there strictly for spaying or neutering. Very few of the other agencies are doing that, so it would make sense to compare their numbers excluding these. We could also put a number on the size of their spay/neuter program.
The question of course is whether this is OR. Well, we could sort of cite petakillsanimals. Or we could just remove all the numbers, since there's no way to present them accurately without engaging in this "research". I have a big problem with how it is presented now, because it manages to be polemic in both directions at once. We could just note that they provided a human society in Norfolk, and that they had this spay/neuter program (giving the actual number if we're willing to trust petakillsanimals). The implication that they are just like the SPCA carries a moral judgement that they ought not to be like them, which is a big NPOV issue. Mangoe 14:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the problem is that this amounts to OR since the VDACS database only presents raw data, so you can come up with a whole bunch of statistics depending what you want to emphasize. Plus, the info that was up on the page earlier had data for 2004-2005 but then presented some number from 1998, so it wasn't really properly referenced. I just question if having these numbers on the page makes any sense. The point that PETA kills animals is made in the Community Animals section. If PETA only takes in about 2000 animals per year, that makes it a tiny shelter since many take in over 30,000 year. Also it's really a small part of what PETA does, so I also wonder why it would be at the top of the article. Bob98133 18:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
A section about Peta's dispute with Friends of Animals and Primarily Primates, Inc. is necessary. Here are a few quick links. http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2006/october/open-letter-to-mary-.html http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2006/october/ppis-response-to-pet.html I'm new to this Wiki thing so I'll let someone with a bit more experience write the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laxmatt ( talk • contribs) 02:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=10328 - in the letter at the bottom of this PETA page, it says that they have 1.8 million members. I don't think it needs a reference since it's just what PETA is claiming. They also didn't make an announcement about it that I saw, it's just mentioned in this letter. Just wanted to explain why I was making the change. If someone thinks it needs a reference in the article, either put it in or let me know and I will. Thanks. Bob98133 15:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I will be interviewing Ingrid Newkirk on Tuesday, November 13. Leave questions on my Talk page. --David Shankbone 16:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've heard accusations that PETA has ties or is a front organisation for the communist party. Anybody else seen any sources claiming or supporting this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.215.78.126 ( talk) 00:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
"appeared to show monkeys being hit, tormented, and humiliated." How do you humiliate a semi-intelligent animal? I thought only humans could be humiliated. -- Simpsons fan 66 00:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
More seriously, I think it's perfectly possible to humiliate an animal, in the sense of "reduce to a lower position in its own eyes or in someone else's eyes." That's exactly what technicians did when they wrote the word "crap" on the forehead of a monkey in a lab. And when they forced a baboon they had just brain-damaged to stand drooling in front of the camera, while they mimicked him asking animal rights activists to please come and rescue him. That behavior reinforces the idea of animals-as-things, and therefore does very precisely reduce them to a lower position, at least in the eyes of anyone so inclined or anyone not thinking clearly. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 04:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Your Mommy Kills Animals co.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Can someone who knows more about this article clean this up: "Many of the campaigns bear fruit for PETA. Burger King, McDonalds, Wendy's, Petco, and in 2006, after talks with PETA, Polo Ralph Lauren announced that it would no longer use fur in any of its lines." It doesn't ever say what Burger King et al. did, it just cuts to Ralph Lauren stopping fur usage. I know there are links to the stories, but a brief synopsis here is important, as some of the links appear to be dead or require a subscription. Surfbruddah. 155.188.247.6 21:24, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
The HBO Documentary I Am An Animal stated that PETA does indeed support terrorists like ALF, Earth First!, Elf, and that the FBI has infiltrated PETA, and that in the founder's will, she is to be dismembered and barbequed. Can this be stated under anything about PETA in this article ? The documentary aired yesterday and today, CST. 65.163.112.205 05:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I believe that in its present condition, this article portrays its subject in a far too positive light. It really ought to be made more neutral, perhaps by damning/criticising some of PETA's obviously wrong/evil mentalities/actions. 91.108.214.229 17:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I, however concur with "User: 91.108.214.229". These animal rights freaks are invariably depicted as noble, and well above the carviverous mass of the rest of us, in wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bioform 1234 ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Making vague criticisms about PETA isn't going to help the article if you think its too positive-POV. Find reliable sources for facts and include them in neutral language in the appropriate section, and help contribute to the wiki, instead of lurking! Max.inglis ( talk) 19:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The issue of NPOV with this article is the structure. It is structured so that criticism of PETA is concealed/diluted, and the body of criticism against PETA is presented in that light. I still would push for a central section combining the criticism to help address the NPOV issue. 138.26.140.149 ( talk) 03:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204753,00.html PETA: Sacrifice Human, Not Animal Life for Medical Research, July 20, 2006 By Steven Milloy
The reference above is used in support of statements in the Animal Testing section of this article. This source is an OpEd, not a news article, by a clearly biased, and paid, source Steven Milloy. PETA's support of stem cell use is fine, but I think the rest of the ph, including the recent attempt to clear it up, be deleted. Thoughts? Thanks. Bob98133 ( talk) 18:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reason the animal testing section doesn't contain a reference to MaryBeth Sweetland's insulin-dependence? There's an article here http://www.goveg.com/diabetes_controlled.asp written by her downplaying her use of animal-based insulins which might prove a good reasonably un-biased quote (all the links to quotes I could find from her were all inflammatory and on anti-PETA sites). Given PETA's stated policies on animal testing, this seems like a pretty important fact, because without animal-harvested and animal-tested insulins, she'd would have died at age 25 when she became insulin-dependent.
Actually I just re-read the article, and right after the quote from Newkirk about them opposing a cure for AIDS based on animal testing would be the perfect place for it. Max.inglis ( talk) 17:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I've just reread that section - position on animal testing - and it really looks like the info about Sweetland is inappropriately tacked onto a paragraph about AIDS. She is also cited as Director of Research and Rescue - which was not correct even based on the reference provided. Personally, I don't see that the info about Sweetland has any place in this article, but even if it does, it currently is in the wrong place. Does this article need a section on PETA employees who wear leather shoes or do other things that PETA says are wrong? Bob98133 ( talk) 18:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I cant find any valuable informations at " PETA's page at Network for Good" What is the use of this link? -- Arcy ( talk) 23:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Why got the imgage " File:Your Mommy Kills Animals co.jpg, used in article Your Mommy Kills Animals deleted? Who deleted it?. -- Arcy ( talk) 14:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Why has the image Image:Holocaust_plate.png contributed by PeTA such a litte dimension? The PeTA-Posters must have been much more readable -- Arcy ( talk) 22:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Some editors seem to be trying to turn this into an attack page. I ask all good-faith editors to look at the animal testing section:
In 2005, a coalition of advocates for AIDS patients launched a campaign assailing PETA for its opposition to using animals to test possible AIDS drugs and calling on PETA's celebrity supporters to account for their high-profile role in what they described as "hindering the search for a cure to AIDS."[109] PETA vice-president Dan Mathews responded that: "AIDS is an easy disease to avoid, but our government squanders millions on duplicative animal tests, rather than issue frank warnings, especially to young people." Dr. Genevieve Clavreul, the coalition's organizer, expressed concern that in order to find an AIDS vaccine "We are going to have to go to an animal model to do it and I don’t want to have to be fighting every five minutes against PETA."[110] In a letter, the Patient Advocates Against PETA, observed that PETA President Ingrid Newkirk made a statement that even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS, "we'd be against it."[109] The Director of Research and Rescue of PETA at that time, Marybeth Sweetland,[111] is an insulin-dependent diabetic,[112] and has defended her use of the animal products (insulin) by saying she needs her life to defend the lives of animals.[113]
In 2006, Britain’s Advertising Standards Authority ruled that PETA misrepresented both animal testing and the science behind animal experiments, ordering it to stop making the misleading claims and rewrite one of its publications. PETA had claimed that “nearly 3 million sensitive animals—monkeys, rabbits, mice and others—are killed in the UK each year in painful experiments” and that “animal experiments are crude and unreliable.” The ASA ruled that animals used in laboratories may suffer in experiments, but that PETA had failed to document that nearly 3 million died “as a result of painful experiments.”[114]
PETA supports embryonic stem cell research because it has "the potential to end the vast majority of animal testing".[115] However, their position has been criticised as being contradictory to their belief all species are equal, since it puts one animal species (humans) to be "preferentially sacrificed to save another"; i.e. that PETA exalts "animal life in trivial ways, while simultaneously devaluing human life to the point where it’s worthless."[115] The response is that whilst animals can suffer pain in experiments, embryos can't.
No one could possibly call this section neutral. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 19:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
While this section seems to be quite critical of PETA, it seems properly and reliably referenced. In order for it to fail NPOV, it would need to misrepresent a significant viewpoint about the subject. The fact that this section is openly critical (with its criticism sourced) does not make it violate NPOV. Neutrality does not mean lack of criticism; it means that all significant viewpoints are expressed.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 20:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to see more information about the rumors that PETA was/is on the Terrorist Watch List. -- 4.224.84.90 ( talk) 19:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
To me including the info from the secretary/activist/former employee makes the whole section less strong. The other criticisms are from recognized groups or spokespeople whereas this one sounds like a disgruntled employee. I think there is justification for keeping it or getting rid of it, but I think the article reads better without it. Bob98133 ( talk) 02:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
This article is pro-PETA, hardly anything criticising them. Typical liberal, far left loony crap, as Bill O'Reilly would state. 205.240.144.195 ( talk) 02:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Is PETA eco-terrorists? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taiketsu ( talk • contribs) 14:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
The notes section appears to be corrupted from item number 75 on. Doesn't display properly on Firefox or MSIE and displays coding in the article. I'm new to wiki markup, so I'm sure what the issue is. Micahmedia ( talk) 22:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
A single-issue account has been spamming articles with a cite to this book since September, and never any page numbers, so there's no indication that there's anything in it relevant to the sentences he adds it after. Please don't restore it without a page number, and then only if it says something another source doesn't already say. SlimVirgin talk| edits 03:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
http://www.masskilling.com/ seems like spamdexing to me... -- Vesal ( talk) 13:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
With all the talk of PETA being viewed as "extremist" in the U.S., something that might be worth noting in the article, if there's an appropriate space, is that the British government seems not to take that view.
In 2004, a British Home Office minister was asked in the House of Commons whether the government had made contact with animal rights groups. The response was:
SlimVirgin talk| edits 20:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
This article was not objective at all. It failed to state critisisms of PETA and disputes against PETA. Not only that, another blaring omission is not having more information about their connections to eco-terrorism and sponsoring such acts. I expect more neaurality from Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.168.195.109 ( talk) 03:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Go to this site, click on the SEARCH icon, type in it:Single Issue Terrorists and/or Domestic Terrorists, and you'll see under these Eco-Terrorists: Earth First!, Earth Liberation Front, Animal Liberation Front, and of course PETA. Been there, seen it. This should be stated. Is that WP:OR or not? 205.240.144.214 ( talk) 21:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have a different problem with this article -- the lengthy section on "Other campaigns". It's really a laundry list, and few of them add anything encyclopedic to the article - it is more like a brag list. I think this should be cut down, or perhaps moved into a separate article. -- Tom Ketchum 18:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
The removal of the criticism section has been addressed by several people saying, "Oh, but we spread it throughout the article." However, I noticed much of the heinous and horrible acts committed by PETA have been completely erased from the article. This smells too much like PETA members and advocates wanting to shine better light on themselves. Not to mention that most organizations listed on Wikipedia have criticism sections. Why should PETA, a horribly unethical organization, be exempt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.123.37.228 ( talk) 06:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
-- Goosedoggy ( talk) 00:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I have a few problems with this section which I thought I'd discuss prior to changing. It links to Humane Society and claims that PETA is part of "the modern humane movement" which began in the 1970s. The link does not support this, or diferentiate between "modern" and other humane movements. As well, the summary of the source cited (the article is only available if you pay $15), does not appear to mention PETA at all, but talks of animal rights activists, not the humane movement, in general. Perhaps the article is talking about PETA, but again, there does not seem to be anything specific. Are we to believe that the demographics and political point-of-view of every humane society or organization in the US are democrats or independents, distrust capitalism, etc.? The source seems overly generalized and certainly not specific to PETA. I think it should be removed, but it could also be replaced by information which is more specific. I think that context is probably estalished in the article, but I see no problem with it being clearly defined in this section too, but it should cite specific references, not a generalized summary of animal rights which is not readily available to all editors. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Re: revert of item by Ramdrake about why PETA would get more animals in poor condition. This page offers some explanation [ [20]]. My understanding is that their Community Animal Project actually goes out looking for dogs or cats in poor condition - chained, left outside, sick, etc. while they distribute free dog houses and straw for animals living outdoors. I have seen pictures of some of these animals with chains embedded in their necks, open sores, etc. Since they don't run a "traditional" shelter (from the stats they obviously don't do many adoptions and euthanize a high percentage of animals)where people can go to adopt animals, they pretty much go looking for animals in miserable conditions. Whether someone agrees with this or not doesn't change the fact that they get a lot of animals near death. In that case, expecting their statistics to be similar to a traditional shelter would be like expecting hospitals and hospices to have equal death rates. I couldn't find really good references for this, so I don't object that strongly to your deletion, but I think there are reasons for the difference. Bob98133 ( talk) 13:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Ramdrake, that source you provided seems to be a personal website, which would not be an RS. Also, it doesn't mention what kind of insulin she takes, if any. We would need a reliable source that gives the information, clarifies that it's animal-based insulin, and alleges that it's hypocrisy. SlimVirgin talk| edits 18:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I really don't want to get involved in this, because I don't think this issue is particularly relevant, but this source is a first-person article on a PETA-controlled website that seems to indicate that Ms. Sweetland uses Humulin, a synthetic insulin that is created using recombinant DNA processes, and is different from aniimal-derived insulin. While it seems implausible that it was not, at some point in its creation, tested in animal studies, I cannot at the moment find a source stating that. Without regard to its testing regime, there seem to be adequate sources that say it is not (in the clinical sense) "animal-derived". Whether the first-person account noted earlier in a reliable source under Wikipedia's arcane rules is far beyond me to determine. -- Tom Ketchum 22:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Addendum - This document, from the manufacturer's website, seems to indicate that a close relation to Humulin, Humalog, was in fact tested in animal trials. What this means for this argument I won't guess. -- Tom Ketchum 23:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I doubt that either side will consider me impartial, but after looking over the Center for Consumer Freedom's website, while they are an interest/lobbying group (like PETA), they don't seem to be a PETA attack site or a single-issue site in general. It would seem consistent with other articles that a "The <adjective> Center for Consumer Freedom says ..." citation of this could in fact be used, if I understand WP:SELFPUB correctly. I will repeat, however -- why??? There are much bigger issues with this article, why bother with the subject of one woman's insulin? -- Tom Ketchum 02:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
The arguments above all strike me as being entirely partisan, and not involved -- on either side -- with what should be in a creditable encyclopedia. If the point to be made is that PETA, or AR activists in general, take what many would consider extreme positions regarding the use of animal-tested or animal-derived products, that seems to be adequately covered in the article. That some of these activists find themselves involved in actions -- hypocritical actions, in some views -- seemingly at odds with those positions, whether animal euthanasia, use of animal-tested drugs, or violent and human-life-threatening protests, also seems covered. My view is that the partisan bickering here is over different, but equally unacceptable, versions of undue weight POV violations. It is (in my view) undue weight to reference that Sweetland uses animal-tested insulin (especially in the absence of what would be an out-of-place explanation that all insulin is animal-tested). However, it is also undue weight, and entirely unencyclopedic, to have an article of which over 60% is tiresome repetition of the group's many campaigns. In my view the way these bloated articles get this way is that one "side" adds their (sourced) piece of partisan POV, then the other side (perhaps trying but failing to take it out), retaliates by adding their countervailing POV, and on and on it goes.
The Britannica has seven (short!) paragraphs about the entirety of "The moderns animal rights movements", in which PETA is briefly mentioned and described in one (!) paragraph, in the same breath as the Humane Society. Admittedly, Wiki("not paper")pedia take a more inclusive direction, but in my view this is way too far. This article should be 5 to 7 paras long, covering the organization, its history, aims, principals, example campaigns, and major critics -- then this argument would be moot, and we wouldn't be arguing about Ms. Sweetland's insulin or most of the rest of what's on this page. Fini. -- Tom Ketchum 22:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)