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As there are still people who worship Pele it is an insult to them to have this page titled "Pele (mythology)", you do not see the same treatment for Vishnu or Jesus. Therefore I am going to rename this page to "Pele". As this the subject of this article is what most people think of when they hear the name, there is no need for any parathentical qualifiers to follow it.
There has been a recent special on the history channel about the continuing worship of Pele and other ancestoral gods in Hawaii. And you can see as recent as May 25, 2007 an Associated Press news story saying "The area [Halemaumau Crater, at the summit of Kilauea] is one of the most popular parts of the park and is revered by Native Hawaiians as the home of Pele, goddess of the volcano."
As a believer in Pele, I am not insulted by it being called mythology - that does not diminish the importance of the spiritual connection or belief. However, I am insulted by the insinuation that it is a racially exclusive belief (to native Hawaiians only), and by the implication that it should be treated in the same way major western religions are labeled. -- JereKrischel 06:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Editors reading my and User:JereKrischel's discussion on mythology vs. religion should be aware that this is an understandable tangent from a discussion we are having about whether the page Hawaiian mythology should be renamed Native Hawaiian religion it is apropo here as the opening sentence of this Pele article links to that page and Pele seems to have an extremely important place in these beliefs.
I would point out that concerning whether we call these beliefs mythology or religion within articles of Wikipedia the outcome must be in line with the organizations established guidelines at Wikipedia:Naming conventions. These state "Generally, article naming should prefer to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." So while User:JereKrischel may reject the common defenition of some terms such as "mythology", "religion", and "truth" as being overly Westernized it is not a question of Westernized or Easternized but of what is the most common usage of these terms among the majority of English speakers.
P.S. If the Pope declared all Catholic dogma null and void he would be declared a heretic and deposed by the College of Cardinals. Its in their ecclesiastical bylaws (see Summa Theologica, De Romano Pontifice, and De Fide). Catholicism holds that the Pope can not invent or destory doctrine he is merely the final guardian of the Treasury of the Apostles (i.e. all the info the hold that that Jesus' apostles conveyed to their successors). This almost happened to a Pope in the middle ages John XXII. Catholicism holds that there are two types of tradition, "BIG T" Tradition that was handed down to humanity through the apostles in a direct line to them and "small t" tradition things that have been practiced for a long time, perhaps centuries but can be changed to promote good order within the faith or to adjust as humanity advances (such as the position on slavery or the use of Latin in the masses). So even if all the "small t" traditions change completely overnight they would still be called members of the Catholic religion.
As many religions do radical changes in practice and still carry forward the same name (such as members of the Latter Day Saints embracing than rejecting polygamy, or (according to the Christians' Scriptures) the apostle Peter and Jewish Christians refusing to eat non-Kosher animals until he had a vision telling him otherwise. Therefore I maintain that though many changes in traditions have occurred within those claiming to follow the Ancient Hawaiian Religion the things that remain the same are the core issues, such as the belief that Pele is an actual supernatural entity with her own will.
"Every year thousands of lava rock pieces are shipped back to Hawaii from around the world from people who claim to have experienced horrible misfortune since removing the rocks and send letters asking for Pele's forgiveness."
This line removed because nothing is cited to support the claim.
It should be mentioned that its customary to placate Pele a bottle of gin, thrown into the volcano or onto a lava flow BethEnd 20:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
What's with the legend in Kalakaua's collection, about Pele, Halema'uma'u, the ama'uma'u fern and Kamapua'a? Seems to be localized on the Big Island, explaining the Halema'uma'u etymology. Dysmorodrepanis 21:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I have completely deleted text plagarized from Coffee Times, incorporated wholesale on February, 2008. And how does a commercial site for coffee become a citable ref for encyclopedia article, anyway? 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 02:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
It just did not read correctly, not for a Wiki article. The tip-off was the seemingly random sentence, "Madame Pele always manages to produce some sort of excitement for her guests...". It was so bizarre as to raise flags - and it turned out to be an image caption on Coffee Times.
I wish I had been able to paraphrase it, but in the end it would not have mattered: a spiffy article on a deity by a coffee seller does not the citation make. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 02:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
We are talking plagiarism and the use of a coffee seller as a citation for a deity, not whether a journalist is respectable (although now I wonder if she was copyvio'd by the coffee seller). 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 08:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
If anyone cares to do so, almost all the information on the "Coffee" page is lifted with relative minor rewrites from the Westervelt books. It wouldn't be a huge job to reïnclude the information through going back to the original source. Lee-Anne ( talk) 18:42, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
I've read the reference given for this, although in scanned form – both on Google and Sacred Texts – and can't find the name "Noil" in it anywhere. It doesn't sound particularly Hawaiian either. The love of her life, whose story takes up much of the book, is Lohiau, the chief of Kaua‘i, although she has other husbands and dalliances. I'm changing it to "a young chief named Lohiau," since that at least appears in the text and fits the context of the sentence. Lee-Anne ( talk) 07:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Is there a counterpart of Pele in other Polynesian cultures? Other Polynesian had volcanoes, you don't here about them much, but was there a Tahitian Pele or a Samoan Pele or a Marquesan Pele?-- KAVEBEAR ( talk) 06:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
I removed "Another noteworthy artist who has rendered a depiction of pele is Manupupule. One such depiction is linked here. Pele Hawaiian Volcano Goddess" for several reasons. For one thing I don't see how it has to do with "historical times," also a few internet searches that resulted in little to no information about Manupupule makes me question their noteworthiness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.76.35 ( talk) 07:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I removed this claim:
"Many" is not what the referenced source says, and it's unclear whether this claim is actually true or is merely a polite fiction. It would be useful to cite actual reports and quantify more precisely. -- Beland ( talk) 23:51, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
References
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 15 May 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Marshaho808. Peer reviewers:
Kainoasa.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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Added a section dedicated to chants but block quote formatting puts the English translation right after the lines of the chant instead of spaced out in two blocks side by side, will try to get the formatting fixed.
Marshaho808 (
talk)
09:56, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
File:The goddess pele by arthur johnsen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
-- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:04, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
For some reason I keep seeing some sources connect Pele and actually geology.
Like how Pele is the creator of islands. And some scholars mention how stories about her are anthropomorphized versions of actual geological events.
I have seen TED mention this.
I think something like this should be mentioned. (Sorry if what I’m saying sounds vague) CycoMa ( talk) 11:41, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
As there are still people who worship Pele it is an insult to them to have this page titled "Pele (mythology)", you do not see the same treatment for Vishnu or Jesus. Therefore I am going to rename this page to "Pele". As this the subject of this article is what most people think of when they hear the name, there is no need for any parathentical qualifiers to follow it.
There has been a recent special on the history channel about the continuing worship of Pele and other ancestoral gods in Hawaii. And you can see as recent as May 25, 2007 an Associated Press news story saying "The area [Halemaumau Crater, at the summit of Kilauea] is one of the most popular parts of the park and is revered by Native Hawaiians as the home of Pele, goddess of the volcano."
As a believer in Pele, I am not insulted by it being called mythology - that does not diminish the importance of the spiritual connection or belief. However, I am insulted by the insinuation that it is a racially exclusive belief (to native Hawaiians only), and by the implication that it should be treated in the same way major western religions are labeled. -- JereKrischel 06:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Editors reading my and User:JereKrischel's discussion on mythology vs. religion should be aware that this is an understandable tangent from a discussion we are having about whether the page Hawaiian mythology should be renamed Native Hawaiian religion it is apropo here as the opening sentence of this Pele article links to that page and Pele seems to have an extremely important place in these beliefs.
I would point out that concerning whether we call these beliefs mythology or religion within articles of Wikipedia the outcome must be in line with the organizations established guidelines at Wikipedia:Naming conventions. These state "Generally, article naming should prefer to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." So while User:JereKrischel may reject the common defenition of some terms such as "mythology", "religion", and "truth" as being overly Westernized it is not a question of Westernized or Easternized but of what is the most common usage of these terms among the majority of English speakers.
P.S. If the Pope declared all Catholic dogma null and void he would be declared a heretic and deposed by the College of Cardinals. Its in their ecclesiastical bylaws (see Summa Theologica, De Romano Pontifice, and De Fide). Catholicism holds that the Pope can not invent or destory doctrine he is merely the final guardian of the Treasury of the Apostles (i.e. all the info the hold that that Jesus' apostles conveyed to their successors). This almost happened to a Pope in the middle ages John XXII. Catholicism holds that there are two types of tradition, "BIG T" Tradition that was handed down to humanity through the apostles in a direct line to them and "small t" tradition things that have been practiced for a long time, perhaps centuries but can be changed to promote good order within the faith or to adjust as humanity advances (such as the position on slavery or the use of Latin in the masses). So even if all the "small t" traditions change completely overnight they would still be called members of the Catholic religion.
As many religions do radical changes in practice and still carry forward the same name (such as members of the Latter Day Saints embracing than rejecting polygamy, or (according to the Christians' Scriptures) the apostle Peter and Jewish Christians refusing to eat non-Kosher animals until he had a vision telling him otherwise. Therefore I maintain that though many changes in traditions have occurred within those claiming to follow the Ancient Hawaiian Religion the things that remain the same are the core issues, such as the belief that Pele is an actual supernatural entity with her own will.
"Every year thousands of lava rock pieces are shipped back to Hawaii from around the world from people who claim to have experienced horrible misfortune since removing the rocks and send letters asking for Pele's forgiveness."
This line removed because nothing is cited to support the claim.
It should be mentioned that its customary to placate Pele a bottle of gin, thrown into the volcano or onto a lava flow BethEnd 20:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
What's with the legend in Kalakaua's collection, about Pele, Halema'uma'u, the ama'uma'u fern and Kamapua'a? Seems to be localized on the Big Island, explaining the Halema'uma'u etymology. Dysmorodrepanis 21:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I have completely deleted text plagarized from Coffee Times, incorporated wholesale on February, 2008. And how does a commercial site for coffee become a citable ref for encyclopedia article, anyway? 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 02:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
It just did not read correctly, not for a Wiki article. The tip-off was the seemingly random sentence, "Madame Pele always manages to produce some sort of excitement for her guests...". It was so bizarre as to raise flags - and it turned out to be an image caption on Coffee Times.
I wish I had been able to paraphrase it, but in the end it would not have mattered: a spiffy article on a deity by a coffee seller does not the citation make. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 02:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
We are talking plagiarism and the use of a coffee seller as a citation for a deity, not whether a journalist is respectable (although now I wonder if she was copyvio'd by the coffee seller). 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 08:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
If anyone cares to do so, almost all the information on the "Coffee" page is lifted with relative minor rewrites from the Westervelt books. It wouldn't be a huge job to reïnclude the information through going back to the original source. Lee-Anne ( talk) 18:42, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
I've read the reference given for this, although in scanned form – both on Google and Sacred Texts – and can't find the name "Noil" in it anywhere. It doesn't sound particularly Hawaiian either. The love of her life, whose story takes up much of the book, is Lohiau, the chief of Kaua‘i, although she has other husbands and dalliances. I'm changing it to "a young chief named Lohiau," since that at least appears in the text and fits the context of the sentence. Lee-Anne ( talk) 07:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Is there a counterpart of Pele in other Polynesian cultures? Other Polynesian had volcanoes, you don't here about them much, but was there a Tahitian Pele or a Samoan Pele or a Marquesan Pele?-- KAVEBEAR ( talk) 06:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
I removed "Another noteworthy artist who has rendered a depiction of pele is Manupupule. One such depiction is linked here. Pele Hawaiian Volcano Goddess" for several reasons. For one thing I don't see how it has to do with "historical times," also a few internet searches that resulted in little to no information about Manupupule makes me question their noteworthiness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.76.35 ( talk) 07:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I removed this claim:
"Many" is not what the referenced source says, and it's unclear whether this claim is actually true or is merely a polite fiction. It would be useful to cite actual reports and quantify more precisely. -- Beland ( talk) 23:51, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
References
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 15 May 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Marshaho808. Peer reviewers:
Kainoasa.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Pele (deity). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:57, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Added a section dedicated to chants but block quote formatting puts the English translation right after the lines of the chant instead of spaced out in two blocks side by side, will try to get the formatting fixed.
Marshaho808 (
talk)
09:56, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
File:The goddess pele by arthur johnsen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
-- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:04, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
For some reason I keep seeing some sources connect Pele and actually geology.
Like how Pele is the creator of islands. And some scholars mention how stories about her are anthropomorphized versions of actual geological events.
I have seen TED mention this.
I think something like this should be mentioned. (Sorry if what I’m saying sounds vague) CycoMa ( talk) 11:41, 16 December 2020 (UTC)