![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Closed per
WP:DENY and
WP:DFTT. Come on people, recognize an obvious troll.-
Mr
X 🖋
03:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
|
---|
The shooter was clearly Hispanic/ Latino, and this needs to be pointed out in the article. It would be if he were Asian or White. 96.40.114.55 ( talk) 23:43, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I disagree- We certainly CAN and should make obvious observations of fact in Wikipedia articles, especially where the information is plainly evident. Failure to make such observations demonstrates an inappropriate liberal and/or conservative political slant on Wikipedia. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
He was adopted. He might not be ethnically hispanic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Battleknight24 ( talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Until there is a definitive identification by a reliable source, the race of the perpetrator should not be included in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codyorb ( talk • contribs) 21:47, February 14, 2018 (UTC) |
it's arraignment not arrangement. Rayansb ( talk) 00:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Cruz's arraignment is not scheduled for February 16, as stated on the main page. It took place on February 15, and he was ordered held without bond. The article should be corrected to show the correct date and events. Dreadwyrm ( talk) 19:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Can you remove the following line? "It is tied with the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting as the third-deadliest school shooting in the United States, behind the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting (which killed 27) and the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (which killed 32)." It makes it seem like there is a contest to get the deadliest.. 4.14.160.224 ( talk) 20:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Possible to redact this line 'This attack is the deadliest shooting to take place at an U.S. secondary school, surpassing the 1999 Columbine High School massacre in which 15 people died, including both perpetrators.[8] It is tied with the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting as the third-deadliest school shooting in the United States, behind the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting (which killed 27) and the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (which killed 32).'
Is it really pertinent to make a scoreboard out of this in the main description? Rfarmerd ( talk) 20:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
fix typo please "attorneys wil seek" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.70.20.57 ( talk) 05:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
CNN just reported 16 confirmed dead. Dogru144 ( talk) 23:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Now the deadliest High School shooting, passing Columbine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:A9A2:CCD6:77BD:BBE5 ( talk) 23:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
The FBI has set up a website where people can upload images and video of the shooting. Please consider to add it as external link.
True, but it may assist with the law enforcement investigation, by propagating the link further. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Should it be noted that the Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel is the first Jewish sheriff in Florida history? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.137.179.128 ( talk • contribs) 06:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Noticed this:
We thought it was a drill," a student evacuated from the high school tells CBS Miami. "We already had one earlier this morning... and then we heard gunshots; some students thought it was not that serious.
Can anyone find any other information supporting this claim by one of the evacuated students that they'd had an active-shooter drill/ school shooting drill that very morning? ScratchMarshall ( talk) 08:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Gwenhope: On this edit you said the shooter being in hospital was misreported. Sources [5] [6], are still saying he was treated there, and there was a press conference from doctors who said they treated him. Can you source where it was a stated as a misreport? WikiVirus C (talk) 14:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Separate question for @ Emt1299d:. No the suspect isn't currently hospitalized, but we aren't going to decrease that number every time a victim is released from hospital, are we? It should show the total that went to hospital as a result of the attack. And unless they die and are moved to the row for deaths , the number shouldn't be decreasing. WikiVirus C (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I just restored the number to 15 again, are we going to start lowering the injured count in the info-box each time someone is released from the hospital? [7] - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 15:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Is the misreporting of the name really needed for a controversy and confusion section? Is the mention even needed at all, especially the birthdays and such? I'm not sure if the reporting of the name itself is actually part of the story. From what I've seen most of the reliable sources that used the incorrect name, corrected it without even a correction note. I personally don't think this is needed in the article, especially since the cited source describes it as people on social media arguing it was a registered democrat.
Also if people do believe it should be in article, I don't think it is controversial, and confusion is also a stretch. The police knew who the suspect was, and the spelling and identify someone else done by news and social media, was just incorrect speculation imo. WikiVirus C (talk) 14:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
You people putting this "making it one of the world's deadliest school massacres and the deadliest high school shooting in modern U.S. history." in the lede should be ashamed of yourself, acting like it's a new "highscore" on a "scoreboard". Treating it like a game is what encourages these mentally ill people to do it and get fame and a new "highscore". This should be removed. 142.160.97.15 ( talk) 19:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Re this, I'm interested to know the relevance of Valentine's Day to this shooting. It was not an "observed holiday" in any way that affects school attendance, is there some other relevance? If we're making a point about the irony of such deadly violence on a day meant to be about love, we need to elaborate the point and we need RS to back it up. Otherwise we're editorializing. ― Mandruss ☎ 09:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Not a coincidence: according to the family the suspect was staying with, he asked off for February 14 because it was Valentine's Day. So, at least, it was an excuse...but it also may have been a motive (someone who feels unloved may choose to kill those who are being loved on Valentine's Day out of jealousy). Ryoung122 22:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Working on a list for victims, as information is released, not all the names or details on their ages and grade is available yet, so gonna wait before adding it to article. Whether it is put in as a sidebar or just a list in subsection depends on how much detail we are going to include(age, grade/position at school, city of birth). So far only, I have only seen names from BBC and The Mirror. WikiVirus C (talk) 20:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Victims [1] |
---|
|
I just restored the list pending a discussion here. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 23:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
This still needs some discussion for adding in, but here is "the" list released by Sheriff Israel and published by CNN. [8] WikiVirus C (talk) 23:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
https://www.voanews.com/a/miami-reporter-on-school-shooting-suspect-/4256017.html#player-set-time=66.201724 Victor Grigas ( talk) 19:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
More media here - a sheriff reaction: https://www.voanews.com/a/florida-sheriff-calls-shooting-catastrophic/4255454.html Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone think the "Suspect" section should be split into an article at Nikolas Cruz? There is plenty of information available about him, so he probably has a lot of potential for his own article. 207.246.94.121 ( talk) 21:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Note- While I agree the IP might be trying to troll, If we do collapse the conversations again, please no one archive it, since the discussion is going to be brought up again, or article just created with only checking this talk page and not archive. WikiVirus C (talk) 00:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone think that one of the victims is notable enough as a swimmer, perhaps for a mini-bio? https://www.collegeswimming.com/swimmer/369795/
I think too often we recognize victims of shootings only for their "victim" status...what about remembering their life accomplishments? Ryoung122 22:35, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: because there is a clear consensus in favor of a move, and this is a highly visible page right now, closing this early as consensus to move the page per the discussion below. I will also update the ITN item as suggested. Dekimasu よ! 01:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Douglas High School shooting → Stoneman Douglas High School shooting – there is no precedent here for shortening "Marjory Stoneman Douglas" to just "Douglas", it should at least be "Stoneman Douglas" because it was a dual surname. You can see at Template:Broward County Public Schools that the MSDHS article is abbreviated as "Stoneman Douglas" and not "Douglas". You can also see it abbreviated using 2 words in this source presently in the article:
No source is provided establishing we should shorten it to just "Douglas" like this. If we're going to go down an unsourced abbreviation path, might I suggest "Douglas High" and we drop "School" too, as "High" is a common abbreviation for highschool? ScratchMarshall ( talk) 06:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Sources for Stoneman Douglas High School
|
---|
Broward County Public Schools, official website Broward County Sheriff via Twitter |
It seems that the consensus for the move is clear. Would it be fine for someone to close this discussion before the full seven-day period is over? K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:47, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I second the closure Bkellar ( talk) 00:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Orginaly reported as Nicolas Cruz, sources have updated to use Nikolaus Cruz. [11] [12]. Although some are using Nikolas [13]. Will keep eye on it until we have correct spelling. WikiVirus C (talk) 00:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
According to Broward County Sheriff, the suspect’s name is Nikolas Cruz. The article says Nikolas De Jesus Cruz. No verifiable source for “de Jesus” needs to be corrected to match the official report from the Sheriff’s department ev ( talk) 03:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Broward County Sheriff’s Department statement in the form of the tweet referenced above. ev ( talk) 03:27, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Restrictive? There is not one single source for this “de Jesus” If you are able to find one please advise, until such time “de Jesus” has been removed from the article ev ( talk) 03:38, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
“Released officially somewhere” is not a source as required. Law enforcement sources have clarified specifically both the name and spelling of the suspect. He has been identified as Nikolas Cruz https://twitter.com/browardsheriff/status/963934007468621824 ev ( talk) 03:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Could not possibly supersede official Police statement. I have also read reports his name is Nikolas Cruz Makarov, as we continue this fruitless debate, I would encourage you to google his instagram page and his parents appeal to the public and decide if Makarov, de Jesus, or neither should be included in the article, and as such override the Broward County Sheriff ev ( talk) 03:55, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Almost seems like you want/need his name to include de Jesus, but why? Rhetorical ev ( talk) 04:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
It should be noted that the suspect was a known Trump supporter and nationalist. It should be included in a much needed (100s of bodies late) category of "POLITICAL MURDER AND TERRORISM COMMITTED BY TRUMP SUPPORTERS." There have been over a 100 politically motivated murders by Trump supporters in 2017.
Irrelevant. I don't think he's old enough to vote now, but one can be a politically motivated murderer without having the franchise. He frequently posted pictures of himself wearing a "Make America Great Again" Trump hats, and used such pictures as his profile pictures for several of his online social media profiles. His gun obsession and violent behavior is clearly correlated with the frequent public and/or politically motivated violence committed by Trump supporters since 2016.
Agreed. He also made publicly available comments on YouTube and various other social media about shooting supporters of the Antifa movement (if there even is such a thing) as well as about shooting anti-Trumpers. Seems an obvious fan of the President. Seems relevant. ev ( talk) 01:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
To the unsigned, if you think "gun obsession" and political violence is a sign of a Trump supporter, you just like many other people may need to read up on cognitive dissonance. [14] Anarcho-authoritarian ( talk) 03:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Not that simple, but yes. Unfortunate. As you said, “like many other people,” it’s a shared opinion whether cognitive dissonance or intuition or both. Groupthink. ev ( talk) 05:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
“There are fine people on oh sides” ev ( talk) 05:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Both* ev ( talk) 05:11, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Says 15 people were sent to the hospital at the beginning. Should be added that one of those people was the shooter. ASA 717 ( talk) 05:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"It had a higher death toll than the 1998 Columbine High School massacre." It took place in 1999; obvious typo. 66.86.106.136 ( talk) 03:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
People may be coming from Reddit to edit this article. Heads up.
2603:3003:900:1A00:C560:9445:C850:1B6C ( talk) 07:49, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Is the only way to correctly source the statement "second-deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history" to wait and see if the media report it?
Would it be WP:SYNTH to do just compare a list on WP of school shootings? Murchison-Eye ( talk) 00:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I would object to such charatarization- As an encyclopedic tone we should be reporting fact not opinion. Saying that something is "the second deadliest.." anything is an opinion and not a fact, and therefore has no place on wikipedia. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Not quite- some people might be more prone to dying than others in an equal situation depending upon variables other than the nature of the given situation itself. - therefore, to say that something is more deadly simply because more people died is subjective rather than objective. We need objective facts rather than subjective facts AKA opinion. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 03:12, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Should a snippet be added to the Aftermath section regarding Marco Rubio's comments, due to the fact he's being widely criticized (for example [15]) on many difference places for the amount of NRA donations he's received and his comments? Gwenhope ( talk) 13:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Closed per
WP:DENY and
WP:DFTT. Come on people, recognize an obvious troll.-
Mr
X 🖋
03:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
|
---|
The shooter was clearly Hispanic/ Latino, and this needs to be pointed out in the article. It would be if he were Asian or White. 96.40.114.55 ( talk) 23:43, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I disagree- We certainly CAN and should make obvious observations of fact in Wikipedia articles, especially where the information is plainly evident. Failure to make such observations demonstrates an inappropriate liberal and/or conservative political slant on Wikipedia. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:39, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
He was adopted. He might not be ethnically hispanic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Battleknight24 ( talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Until there is a definitive identification by a reliable source, the race of the perpetrator should not be included in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codyorb ( talk • contribs) 21:47, February 14, 2018 (UTC) |
it's arraignment not arrangement. Rayansb ( talk) 00:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Cruz's arraignment is not scheduled for February 16, as stated on the main page. It took place on February 15, and he was ordered held without bond. The article should be corrected to show the correct date and events. Dreadwyrm ( talk) 19:38, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Can you remove the following line? "It is tied with the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting as the third-deadliest school shooting in the United States, behind the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting (which killed 27) and the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (which killed 32)." It makes it seem like there is a contest to get the deadliest.. 4.14.160.224 ( talk) 20:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Possible to redact this line 'This attack is the deadliest shooting to take place at an U.S. secondary school, surpassing the 1999 Columbine High School massacre in which 15 people died, including both perpetrators.[8] It is tied with the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting as the third-deadliest school shooting in the United States, behind the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting (which killed 27) and the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting (which killed 32).'
Is it really pertinent to make a scoreboard out of this in the main description? Rfarmerd ( talk) 20:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
fix typo please "attorneys wil seek" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.70.20.57 ( talk) 05:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
CNN just reported 16 confirmed dead. Dogru144 ( talk) 23:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Now the deadliest High School shooting, passing Columbine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:A9A2:CCD6:77BD:BBE5 ( talk) 23:21, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
The FBI has set up a website where people can upload images and video of the shooting. Please consider to add it as external link.
True, but it may assist with the law enforcement investigation, by propagating the link further. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Should it be noted that the Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel is the first Jewish sheriff in Florida history? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.137.179.128 ( talk • contribs) 06:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Noticed this:
We thought it was a drill," a student evacuated from the high school tells CBS Miami. "We already had one earlier this morning... and then we heard gunshots; some students thought it was not that serious.
Can anyone find any other information supporting this claim by one of the evacuated students that they'd had an active-shooter drill/ school shooting drill that very morning? ScratchMarshall ( talk) 08:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
@ Gwenhope: On this edit you said the shooter being in hospital was misreported. Sources [5] [6], are still saying he was treated there, and there was a press conference from doctors who said they treated him. Can you source where it was a stated as a misreport? WikiVirus C (talk) 14:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Separate question for @ Emt1299d:. No the suspect isn't currently hospitalized, but we aren't going to decrease that number every time a victim is released from hospital, are we? It should show the total that went to hospital as a result of the attack. And unless they die and are moved to the row for deaths , the number shouldn't be decreasing. WikiVirus C (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I just restored the number to 15 again, are we going to start lowering the injured count in the info-box each time someone is released from the hospital? [7] - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 15:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Is the misreporting of the name really needed for a controversy and confusion section? Is the mention even needed at all, especially the birthdays and such? I'm not sure if the reporting of the name itself is actually part of the story. From what I've seen most of the reliable sources that used the incorrect name, corrected it without even a correction note. I personally don't think this is needed in the article, especially since the cited source describes it as people on social media arguing it was a registered democrat.
Also if people do believe it should be in article, I don't think it is controversial, and confusion is also a stretch. The police knew who the suspect was, and the spelling and identify someone else done by news and social media, was just incorrect speculation imo. WikiVirus C (talk) 14:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
You people putting this "making it one of the world's deadliest school massacres and the deadliest high school shooting in modern U.S. history." in the lede should be ashamed of yourself, acting like it's a new "highscore" on a "scoreboard". Treating it like a game is what encourages these mentally ill people to do it and get fame and a new "highscore". This should be removed. 142.160.97.15 ( talk) 19:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Re this, I'm interested to know the relevance of Valentine's Day to this shooting. It was not an "observed holiday" in any way that affects school attendance, is there some other relevance? If we're making a point about the irony of such deadly violence on a day meant to be about love, we need to elaborate the point and we need RS to back it up. Otherwise we're editorializing. ― Mandruss ☎ 09:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Not a coincidence: according to the family the suspect was staying with, he asked off for February 14 because it was Valentine's Day. So, at least, it was an excuse...but it also may have been a motive (someone who feels unloved may choose to kill those who are being loved on Valentine's Day out of jealousy). Ryoung122 22:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Working on a list for victims, as information is released, not all the names or details on their ages and grade is available yet, so gonna wait before adding it to article. Whether it is put in as a sidebar or just a list in subsection depends on how much detail we are going to include(age, grade/position at school, city of birth). So far only, I have only seen names from BBC and The Mirror. WikiVirus C (talk) 20:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Victims [1] |
---|
|
I just restored the list pending a discussion here. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 23:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
This still needs some discussion for adding in, but here is "the" list released by Sheriff Israel and published by CNN. [8] WikiVirus C (talk) 23:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
https://www.voanews.com/a/miami-reporter-on-school-shooting-suspect-/4256017.html#player-set-time=66.201724 Victor Grigas ( talk) 19:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
More media here - a sheriff reaction: https://www.voanews.com/a/florida-sheriff-calls-shooting-catastrophic/4255454.html Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:36, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 00:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone think the "Suspect" section should be split into an article at Nikolas Cruz? There is plenty of information available about him, so he probably has a lot of potential for his own article. 207.246.94.121 ( talk) 21:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Note- While I agree the IP might be trying to troll, If we do collapse the conversations again, please no one archive it, since the discussion is going to be brought up again, or article just created with only checking this talk page and not archive. WikiVirus C (talk) 00:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone think that one of the victims is notable enough as a swimmer, perhaps for a mini-bio? https://www.collegeswimming.com/swimmer/369795/
I think too often we recognize victims of shootings only for their "victim" status...what about remembering their life accomplishments? Ryoung122 22:35, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: because there is a clear consensus in favor of a move, and this is a highly visible page right now, closing this early as consensus to move the page per the discussion below. I will also update the ITN item as suggested. Dekimasu よ! 01:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Douglas High School shooting → Stoneman Douglas High School shooting – there is no precedent here for shortening "Marjory Stoneman Douglas" to just "Douglas", it should at least be "Stoneman Douglas" because it was a dual surname. You can see at Template:Broward County Public Schools that the MSDHS article is abbreviated as "Stoneman Douglas" and not "Douglas". You can also see it abbreviated using 2 words in this source presently in the article:
No source is provided establishing we should shorten it to just "Douglas" like this. If we're going to go down an unsourced abbreviation path, might I suggest "Douglas High" and we drop "School" too, as "High" is a common abbreviation for highschool? ScratchMarshall ( talk) 06:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Sources for Stoneman Douglas High School
|
---|
Broward County Public Schools, official website Broward County Sheriff via Twitter |
It seems that the consensus for the move is clear. Would it be fine for someone to close this discussion before the full seven-day period is over? K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:47, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I second the closure Bkellar ( talk) 00:36, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Orginaly reported as Nicolas Cruz, sources have updated to use Nikolaus Cruz. [11] [12]. Although some are using Nikolas [13]. Will keep eye on it until we have correct spelling. WikiVirus C (talk) 00:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
According to Broward County Sheriff, the suspect’s name is Nikolas Cruz. The article says Nikolas De Jesus Cruz. No verifiable source for “de Jesus” needs to be corrected to match the official report from the Sheriff’s department ev ( talk) 03:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Broward County Sheriff’s Department statement in the form of the tweet referenced above. ev ( talk) 03:27, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Restrictive? There is not one single source for this “de Jesus” If you are able to find one please advise, until such time “de Jesus” has been removed from the article ev ( talk) 03:38, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
“Released officially somewhere” is not a source as required. Law enforcement sources have clarified specifically both the name and spelling of the suspect. He has been identified as Nikolas Cruz https://twitter.com/browardsheriff/status/963934007468621824 ev ( talk) 03:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Could not possibly supersede official Police statement. I have also read reports his name is Nikolas Cruz Makarov, as we continue this fruitless debate, I would encourage you to google his instagram page and his parents appeal to the public and decide if Makarov, de Jesus, or neither should be included in the article, and as such override the Broward County Sheriff ev ( talk) 03:55, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Almost seems like you want/need his name to include de Jesus, but why? Rhetorical ev ( talk) 04:31, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
It should be noted that the suspect was a known Trump supporter and nationalist. It should be included in a much needed (100s of bodies late) category of "POLITICAL MURDER AND TERRORISM COMMITTED BY TRUMP SUPPORTERS." There have been over a 100 politically motivated murders by Trump supporters in 2017.
Irrelevant. I don't think he's old enough to vote now, but one can be a politically motivated murderer without having the franchise. He frequently posted pictures of himself wearing a "Make America Great Again" Trump hats, and used such pictures as his profile pictures for several of his online social media profiles. His gun obsession and violent behavior is clearly correlated with the frequent public and/or politically motivated violence committed by Trump supporters since 2016.
Agreed. He also made publicly available comments on YouTube and various other social media about shooting supporters of the Antifa movement (if there even is such a thing) as well as about shooting anti-Trumpers. Seems an obvious fan of the President. Seems relevant. ev ( talk) 01:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
To the unsigned, if you think "gun obsession" and political violence is a sign of a Trump supporter, you just like many other people may need to read up on cognitive dissonance. [14] Anarcho-authoritarian ( talk) 03:24, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Not that simple, but yes. Unfortunate. As you said, “like many other people,” it’s a shared opinion whether cognitive dissonance or intuition or both. Groupthink. ev ( talk) 05:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
“There are fine people on oh sides” ev ( talk) 05:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Both* ev ( talk) 05:11, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Says 15 people were sent to the hospital at the beginning. Should be added that one of those people was the shooter. ASA 717 ( talk) 05:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Stoneman Douglas High School shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"It had a higher death toll than the 1998 Columbine High School massacre." It took place in 1999; obvious typo. 66.86.106.136 ( talk) 03:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
People may be coming from Reddit to edit this article. Heads up.
2603:3003:900:1A00:C560:9445:C850:1B6C ( talk) 07:49, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Is the only way to correctly source the statement "second-deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history" to wait and see if the media report it?
Would it be WP:SYNTH to do just compare a list on WP of school shootings? Murchison-Eye ( talk) 00:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I would object to such charatarization- As an encyclopedic tone we should be reporting fact not opinion. Saying that something is "the second deadliest.." anything is an opinion and not a fact, and therefore has no place on wikipedia. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 01:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Not quite- some people might be more prone to dying than others in an equal situation depending upon variables other than the nature of the given situation itself. - therefore, to say that something is more deadly simply because more people died is subjective rather than objective. We need objective facts rather than subjective facts AKA opinion. 108.201.29.108 ( talk) 03:12, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Should a snippet be added to the Aftermath section regarding Marco Rubio's comments, due to the fact he's being widely criticized (for example [15]) on many difference places for the amount of NRA donations he's received and his comments? Gwenhope ( talk) 13:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)