This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Parafora appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 23 December 2010 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Can you please stop changing the commercial section on Parafora. The statements are sourced and you need another source to disprove these "incorrect facts", since wikipedia is about verifiability not necessarily truth. It pretty much ends there. And there is a difference between speculation like Rouvas will probably perform here or release this as his next single and what the newspaper was saying, which is estimation based on observations and facts. It is the same thing Billboard does when estimating who will be number 1 next week or how much an album is expected to sell. These are notable.
Anyway, it just states that an artist at Hatzigiannis' level (ie Rouvas, Remos etc) could expect to get 150K or more for a brand new album. Perhaps that Remos deal had not been made yet/made public record up until then, so it is not necessarily wrong, they just took the highest known figure and estimated Rouvas would surpass it. Either way, you only have leaks for Remos as you said, which are not a reliable source. You can't disprove that Rouvas got the most interest unless you have a source, considering as you were not there to see the bidding, but if an album gets bids before any of its material is even commercially released and it happens to be by (one of) the most relevant artist on the scene right now, you can make a safe bet it's correct.
As for the crisis? Is that really up for discussion? Obviously it is known they started doing it afterward because it slowed down the music industry (along with previous factors ie illegal downloads) and sources for this are easily available. Like I said I am still adding in sources but that statement is not that controversial. GreekStar12 ( talk) 20:18, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, there is something called paraphrasing, but what you do is completely change the meaning of the source. We paraphrase all the time: writing the source in our own words. If we didn’t paraphrase, we would be quoting. What you do is interpret the source, something completely different, which adds your own personal opinions and takes on the situation. Per Wikipedia guidelines on original research, "Drawing conclusions not evident in the reference is original research regardless of the type of source. It is important that references be cited in context and on topic.". You are doing EXACTLY what it says not to. Especially since we are working with predominantly Greek-language sources, it is unacceptable. If the article for example has to go up for GA review, or even if a non-Greek reader wanted to check the sources, they would not be able to get what you, or I, or any other Greek reader gets when checking the source with an online translator. Whatever you source in the article, needs to be directly supported in the source. That means every claim you make must be sourced even if it is common knowledge and it requires sourcing every sentence. I learned that the hard way when one of the Greek Eurovision articles went up for GA review, then reassessment later. Your current style of editing presents problems. For example, there are a lot of articles where you explain the composition of the song, or related musical details, and most of the time it is not sourced. It is all original research on your part. Although it is common knowledge to you, especially since you have a musical background, it needs a source or it can be removed as unsourced material.
Also, Greek is not the only language up for interpretation; you can interpret text in virtually any language. It all depends on the style and tone it is written in. And if this were to happen with an English-language source, you would not be able to interpret that and use it on Wikipedia because someone would instantly realize what you've done and call you on it. You would not be allowed to use it as it is original research, simple as that. And it’s not like the Greek Wikipedia has different rules on this specific subject so you could argue that the Greek-language is an exception; they have virtually identical guidelines. (Not that Greek Wikipedia guidelines would apply here anyway)
By the way, the point I was trying to make before about the Music and Media pieces by "To Paron", was that they are predominantly hybrid opinion pieces. (so to speak) I am not sure if you follow them, but I read upon their release on Sundays. They are mostly the editors take on the soundings of the music and media industry, and most of the times it includes speculation and rumors of what has been heard around the industry. Just because they publish it, doesn’t make it true. If you decide to use the site as a source, you must do so in a way that states that it is someone’s opinion or speculation, not a fact. Greekboy ( talk) 21:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 07:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time presenting the album with a 2x platinum status in the pocket, for it is stated as such by Rouvas himself. That is hardly NPOV. Is there a reliable source to back it up? Until a reliable source is found, I think stating this status as a fact múst be avoided. Robster1983 ( talk) 22:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Parafora. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:59, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Parafora appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 23 December 2010 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Can you please stop changing the commercial section on Parafora. The statements are sourced and you need another source to disprove these "incorrect facts", since wikipedia is about verifiability not necessarily truth. It pretty much ends there. And there is a difference between speculation like Rouvas will probably perform here or release this as his next single and what the newspaper was saying, which is estimation based on observations and facts. It is the same thing Billboard does when estimating who will be number 1 next week or how much an album is expected to sell. These are notable.
Anyway, it just states that an artist at Hatzigiannis' level (ie Rouvas, Remos etc) could expect to get 150K or more for a brand new album. Perhaps that Remos deal had not been made yet/made public record up until then, so it is not necessarily wrong, they just took the highest known figure and estimated Rouvas would surpass it. Either way, you only have leaks for Remos as you said, which are not a reliable source. You can't disprove that Rouvas got the most interest unless you have a source, considering as you were not there to see the bidding, but if an album gets bids before any of its material is even commercially released and it happens to be by (one of) the most relevant artist on the scene right now, you can make a safe bet it's correct.
As for the crisis? Is that really up for discussion? Obviously it is known they started doing it afterward because it slowed down the music industry (along with previous factors ie illegal downloads) and sources for this are easily available. Like I said I am still adding in sources but that statement is not that controversial. GreekStar12 ( talk) 20:18, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, there is something called paraphrasing, but what you do is completely change the meaning of the source. We paraphrase all the time: writing the source in our own words. If we didn’t paraphrase, we would be quoting. What you do is interpret the source, something completely different, which adds your own personal opinions and takes on the situation. Per Wikipedia guidelines on original research, "Drawing conclusions not evident in the reference is original research regardless of the type of source. It is important that references be cited in context and on topic.". You are doing EXACTLY what it says not to. Especially since we are working with predominantly Greek-language sources, it is unacceptable. If the article for example has to go up for GA review, or even if a non-Greek reader wanted to check the sources, they would not be able to get what you, or I, or any other Greek reader gets when checking the source with an online translator. Whatever you source in the article, needs to be directly supported in the source. That means every claim you make must be sourced even if it is common knowledge and it requires sourcing every sentence. I learned that the hard way when one of the Greek Eurovision articles went up for GA review, then reassessment later. Your current style of editing presents problems. For example, there are a lot of articles where you explain the composition of the song, or related musical details, and most of the time it is not sourced. It is all original research on your part. Although it is common knowledge to you, especially since you have a musical background, it needs a source or it can be removed as unsourced material.
Also, Greek is not the only language up for interpretation; you can interpret text in virtually any language. It all depends on the style and tone it is written in. And if this were to happen with an English-language source, you would not be able to interpret that and use it on Wikipedia because someone would instantly realize what you've done and call you on it. You would not be allowed to use it as it is original research, simple as that. And it’s not like the Greek Wikipedia has different rules on this specific subject so you could argue that the Greek-language is an exception; they have virtually identical guidelines. (Not that Greek Wikipedia guidelines would apply here anyway)
By the way, the point I was trying to make before about the Music and Media pieces by "To Paron", was that they are predominantly hybrid opinion pieces. (so to speak) I am not sure if you follow them, but I read upon their release on Sundays. They are mostly the editors take on the soundings of the music and media industry, and most of the times it includes speculation and rumors of what has been heard around the industry. Just because they publish it, doesn’t make it true. If you decide to use the site as a source, you must do so in a way that states that it is someone’s opinion or speculation, not a fact. Greekboy ( talk) 21:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv ( talk) 07:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm having a hard time presenting the album with a 2x platinum status in the pocket, for it is stated as such by Rouvas himself. That is hardly NPOV. Is there a reliable source to back it up? Until a reliable source is found, I think stating this status as a fact múst be avoided. Robster1983 ( talk) 22:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Parafora. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:59, 1 February 2016 (UTC)