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![]() | A news item involving Palestinian prisoners in Israel was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 18 May 2012. | ![]() |
Few clear issues that need rectifying before the tags can go.
After these few fairly obvious issues are resolved, I'm willing to rethink the tags.
Cheers,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk
17:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi Tomer, I remoed these three links from the see also section:
I think it's a little inappropriate to place redlinked articles in a see also section (they are not yet functional and may simply confuse our readers). y all means go ahead and create such articles so that we can link when they are done, ut until they are luelinks, I don't think they should e there. Thanks for understanding. Tiamut talk 22:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
We're trying to work around a few of the POV issues so that it would be possible to remove the POV tag sometime in the not too distant future. I would apprecaite it if you do not revert with such edit summaries as "WP:DONTLIKEIT" as it will certainly not help resolve the raised concerns. If the raised concerns are something you disagree with or that you need further explanation, please make note of it. Cheers, Jaakobou Chalk Talk 06:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
why not add a section of prisoners who were relased and then returned to commiting acts of terrorism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.253.246 ( talk) 23:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
11,000?-- Qwarto ( talk) 12:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
6,011 as of August 2010, according to B'Tselem [2] Sanguinalis ( talk) 14:26, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Just looked at this page for the first time and it seems strange that there is no mention of the type or range of crimes that have been committed. Political prisoners are those people who have committed crimes because of political ideals rather than for personal motives but what are the crimes? Oxford73 ( talk) 08:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
This is one of the most biased articles I have ever seen on Wikipedia. By reading it you'd think the prisoners were arbitrarily imprisoned. How about some statistics on (or at least mention!) the crimes that were committed. If people are incarcerated because they killed other people, I think that is very relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.98.5.238 ( talk) 20:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
I've put some more background from the Third Geneva Convention (ratified by Israel) and Additional Protocol I (not ratified by Israel) (with citations from the conventions on the ICRC site), since the situation is not as clear-cut as the statement (claiming detained Palestinian resistance fighters are prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions) implies. The reference given for that statement is a dead link, I notice - maybe the assertion was made in that reference?
The section may still need a bit more clearing up. Kingal86 ( talk) 23:01, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I reverted two recent edits by SimplesC for the following reasons:
Is a fine source for an attributed statement. Just as B'tselem, HRW, or on the other side the IDF or MFA can be used for attributed statements. nableezy - 13:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
I think we should merge the article Palestinian Prisoners' Document with this one. Any opinion? Shalom11111 ( talk) 16:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Addameer is a shady, little-known organization with direct ties to Palestinian terrorist, that doesn't even seem to have a Wikipedia article yet, but somehow it's assumed to be a reliable source for this article? What's up with that? -- 2A02:8071:3190:7D00:4059:36FC:3BDD:B23A ( talk) 17:46, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
No good source for this. ImTheIP ( talk) 23:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
== Removal by ImTheIP ==
User:ImTheIP removed
this information by saying "this sentence was removed because it is guesswork by Gavriel Fiske. controversial statements need to be better sourced" even though the source says it's
B'Tselem that
says this:
"According to rights group B’Tselem, Israel holds around 4,700 security prisoners, most of them Palestinian men from the West Bank and Gaza convicted of participating in terror attacks, although 169 of those are held under administrative detention, without formally being charged."
Would you mind explaining your removal and how this is connected to Gavriel Fiske (whoever is that person)?--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
00:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
::And what about
The Washington Post? (considered a reliable secondary source):
::::The Washington Post doesn't mention B'Tselem even once.--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
01:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::Is there a source you would accept explaining why the majority of those Palestinians are in prison? I don't think it's for speeding tickets.--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
02:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
B'Tselem calls them "security detainees" per their official classification. These include kids who threw stones at soldiers, and quite a large number of prisoners who chose to plead guilty because they were promised an even longer time in prison waiting for a trial. This common method of pressure seems to be missing from the article and it shouldn't be. "Most convicted of participating in terror attacks" is a lie and attributing it to B'Tselem is a calumny. "Convicted of planning a terror attack" includes belonging to an organization that Israel considers illegal. Also missing, I think, is the documented fact that the military courts almost never find anyone innocent. The fact that neither prisoners nor their lawyers usually get to see the evidence against them is hinted at but should be explained properly. Nor, unless I missed it, is the fact that families are often not notified of the prisoner's whereabouts. Overall this article is a pro-Israel whitewash. Zero talk 05:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Reference 28 "Israeli forces arrested 800,000 Palestinians since 1967" is still available in the original version at https://www.saudigazette.com.sa/article/24958/Israeli-forces-arrested-800000-Palestinians-since-1967. Guess the web archive link can be replaced.
Besides the source cited saying the following:
The sentences of Palestinian prisoners are commonly based on an accusation that they are "members of illegal organizations" (meaning the PLO), planning or taking part in sabotage against Israelis, or raising a Palestinian flag
A brief perusal at Flag of Palestine would also disabuse one of the notion that this is an extraordinary claim. See more here about the 1980 law that outlawed flying the Palestinian flag. nableezy - 04:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
I think that for the clarity of the article three sections should be modified :
This section under "Human Rights Abuse" is unsourced and incorrect.
"More than 334 prisoners from Gazaincludes 2 women and a child.[citation needed] Their families had been under many restrictions to visit them in the Israelis prisons.[citation needed] They were required to obtain permits from Israeli authorities to pass the Israeli Security Agency, so they can visit their relatives. While there is many limitations on Gaza families to enter in Israel. They allow prison visits every 2-month at most for 3 members of the family, only the spouses, parents and children under 16 years- old."
No evidence exists for this claim. Please remove this section. 2603:7000:A102:144D:8CEB:77F4:5F45:B61E ( talk) 05:49, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
eg from illness, alleged maltreatment or even hunger strikes or other reasons. 82.11.163.59 ( talk) 18:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
The overall figures in this article are from 2011, and administrative detention figures are from April 2022. Amnesty International notes that these figures have increased "dramatically" since October 7:
"Since 7 October, Israeli forces have detained more than 2,200 Palestinian men and women, according to the Palestinian Prisoners’ Club. According to Israeli human rights organization HaMoked between 1 October and 1 November, the total number of Palestinians held in administrative detention, without charge or trial, rose from 1,319 to 2,070."
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Arielweil (
talk)
16:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Palestinian prisoners in Israel article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A news item involving Palestinian prisoners in Israel was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 18 May 2012. | ![]() |
Few clear issues that need rectifying before the tags can go.
After these few fairly obvious issues are resolved, I'm willing to rethink the tags.
Cheers,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk
17:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi Tomer, I remoed these three links from the see also section:
I think it's a little inappropriate to place redlinked articles in a see also section (they are not yet functional and may simply confuse our readers). y all means go ahead and create such articles so that we can link when they are done, ut until they are luelinks, I don't think they should e there. Thanks for understanding. Tiamut talk 22:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
We're trying to work around a few of the POV issues so that it would be possible to remove the POV tag sometime in the not too distant future. I would apprecaite it if you do not revert with such edit summaries as "WP:DONTLIKEIT" as it will certainly not help resolve the raised concerns. If the raised concerns are something you disagree with or that you need further explanation, please make note of it. Cheers, Jaakobou Chalk Talk 06:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
why not add a section of prisoners who were relased and then returned to commiting acts of terrorism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.253.246 ( talk) 23:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
11,000?-- Qwarto ( talk) 12:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
6,011 as of August 2010, according to B'Tselem [2] Sanguinalis ( talk) 14:26, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Just looked at this page for the first time and it seems strange that there is no mention of the type or range of crimes that have been committed. Political prisoners are those people who have committed crimes because of political ideals rather than for personal motives but what are the crimes? Oxford73 ( talk) 08:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
This is one of the most biased articles I have ever seen on Wikipedia. By reading it you'd think the prisoners were arbitrarily imprisoned. How about some statistics on (or at least mention!) the crimes that were committed. If people are incarcerated because they killed other people, I think that is very relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.98.5.238 ( talk) 20:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
I've put some more background from the Third Geneva Convention (ratified by Israel) and Additional Protocol I (not ratified by Israel) (with citations from the conventions on the ICRC site), since the situation is not as clear-cut as the statement (claiming detained Palestinian resistance fighters are prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions) implies. The reference given for that statement is a dead link, I notice - maybe the assertion was made in that reference?
The section may still need a bit more clearing up. Kingal86 ( talk) 23:01, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I reverted two recent edits by SimplesC for the following reasons:
Is a fine source for an attributed statement. Just as B'tselem, HRW, or on the other side the IDF or MFA can be used for attributed statements. nableezy - 13:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
I think we should merge the article Palestinian Prisoners' Document with this one. Any opinion? Shalom11111 ( talk) 16:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Addameer is a shady, little-known organization with direct ties to Palestinian terrorist, that doesn't even seem to have a Wikipedia article yet, but somehow it's assumed to be a reliable source for this article? What's up with that? -- 2A02:8071:3190:7D00:4059:36FC:3BDD:B23A ( talk) 17:46, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
No good source for this. ImTheIP ( talk) 23:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
== Removal by ImTheIP ==
User:ImTheIP removed
this information by saying "this sentence was removed because it is guesswork by Gavriel Fiske. controversial statements need to be better sourced" even though the source says it's
B'Tselem that
says this:
"According to rights group B’Tselem, Israel holds around 4,700 security prisoners, most of them Palestinian men from the West Bank and Gaza convicted of participating in terror attacks, although 169 of those are held under administrative detention, without formally being charged."
Would you mind explaining your removal and how this is connected to Gavriel Fiske (whoever is that person)?--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
00:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
::And what about
The Washington Post? (considered a reliable secondary source):
::::The Washington Post doesn't mention B'Tselem even once.--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
01:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::Is there a source you would accept explaining why the majority of those Palestinians are in prison? I don't think it's for speeding tickets.--
Aroma Stylish (
talk)
02:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
B'Tselem calls them "security detainees" per their official classification. These include kids who threw stones at soldiers, and quite a large number of prisoners who chose to plead guilty because they were promised an even longer time in prison waiting for a trial. This common method of pressure seems to be missing from the article and it shouldn't be. "Most convicted of participating in terror attacks" is a lie and attributing it to B'Tselem is a calumny. "Convicted of planning a terror attack" includes belonging to an organization that Israel considers illegal. Also missing, I think, is the documented fact that the military courts almost never find anyone innocent. The fact that neither prisoners nor their lawyers usually get to see the evidence against them is hinted at but should be explained properly. Nor, unless I missed it, is the fact that families are often not notified of the prisoner's whereabouts. Overall this article is a pro-Israel whitewash. Zero talk 05:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Reference 28 "Israeli forces arrested 800,000 Palestinians since 1967" is still available in the original version at https://www.saudigazette.com.sa/article/24958/Israeli-forces-arrested-800000-Palestinians-since-1967. Guess the web archive link can be replaced.
Besides the source cited saying the following:
The sentences of Palestinian prisoners are commonly based on an accusation that they are "members of illegal organizations" (meaning the PLO), planning or taking part in sabotage against Israelis, or raising a Palestinian flag
A brief perusal at Flag of Palestine would also disabuse one of the notion that this is an extraordinary claim. See more here about the 1980 law that outlawed flying the Palestinian flag. nableezy - 04:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
I think that for the clarity of the article three sections should be modified :
This section under "Human Rights Abuse" is unsourced and incorrect.
"More than 334 prisoners from Gazaincludes 2 women and a child.[citation needed] Their families had been under many restrictions to visit them in the Israelis prisons.[citation needed] They were required to obtain permits from Israeli authorities to pass the Israeli Security Agency, so they can visit their relatives. While there is many limitations on Gaza families to enter in Israel. They allow prison visits every 2-month at most for 3 members of the family, only the spouses, parents and children under 16 years- old."
No evidence exists for this claim. Please remove this section. 2603:7000:A102:144D:8CEB:77F4:5F45:B61E ( talk) 05:49, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
eg from illness, alleged maltreatment or even hunger strikes or other reasons. 82.11.163.59 ( talk) 18:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
The overall figures in this article are from 2011, and administrative detention figures are from April 2022. Amnesty International notes that these figures have increased "dramatically" since October 7:
"Since 7 October, Israeli forces have detained more than 2,200 Palestinian men and women, according to the Palestinian Prisoners’ Club. According to Israeli human rights organization HaMoked between 1 October and 1 November, the total number of Palestinians held in administrative detention, without charge or trial, rose from 1,319 to 2,070."
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Arielweil (
talk)
16:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)