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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
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I've moved an old version of this page to US lobby against Israeli Occupation where this lobby can be treated in an WP:NPOV way. This permits this article to remain in the way it has evolved, to focus on the use of the "anti-Israel lobby" term. This obviates the need for a move. Caveat: " US lobby against Israeli Occupation" is not perhaps the best title, but it's the best I can come up with which meets WP:NPOV. Better suggestions welcome. Rd232 talk 11:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
The article title is acceptable to me. One thing to consider, some lobby groups consider the "Israeli Occupation" to apply to the entire landmass that comprises modern day country of Israel (ie: Israel's government is occupying Palestine), not just the West Bank/Gaza/territories. That should be reflected as well, pending appropriate RS. -- Nsaum75 ( talk) 15:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a better title, but there might be an even better one. — Ashley Y 06:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
It is not a better title. It is worse.
The article is about a shift in political power centers in the United States. It is not strictly about the Israeli occupation. There are many issues on which these groups lobby, and on which the Israeli lobbyists lobby on the opposite side, of which the occupation is only one. There is financial and military aid, both to Israel and to the Arab countries; there is the issue of human rights. There is a lot of money involved. To remove the focus of the article from the arena of US national policy and politics to a focus on the Israeli occupation is, I believe, a mistake.
But never mind what I think. The worst part of this rename is that it was done without consultation. I was hoping that we could create a new editing culture for articles about the dispute, one where cooperation and discussion prevailed over edit warring; where discussion on the talk page preempted, or at least preceded, precipitous cases of being bold.
There are two ways this page can go. It can follow in the footsteps of Gaza War, Muhammad al-Durrah and other pages where battle, chaos, and consequent poor quality are the standard. Or we can try to work together to create an article that is really good and meaningful. The choice is ours. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 06:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
To be bring up another issue that supports quickly re-writing this article to be about the topic from more neutral sources: I think this article could be AfD'd because it IS a whole sale copying of an earlier version of the Anti-Israel lobby in the United States article. I have taken out some of the more irrelevant/POV stuff but the rest of the text remains largely the same as the original copied material. I know there are wikipedia purists who claim that copying from one article to another like that is a copyright violation and grounds for AfD. So those who wanted the article to exist should get busy.
Also please don't forget the article Projects working for peace among Arabs and Israelis which has a lot of info - but which also is quite an overlap with this article (as it should be written). CarolMooreDC ( talk)
Given that the name has changed with "lobby" deleted, this tag SHOULD be removed and I will do so soon, especially given that the tagger hasn't bothered to explain their reasoning, including in light of the change. Any problems? Please explain. CarolMooreDC ( talk) 20:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Random information, as well as sources that do not mention that topic as part of their discussion of the group, obviously are off topic. So a clean up of sources will be done soon. Also those that do will have references to the groups position on occupation made explicit. CarolMooreDC ( talk) 21:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Finally got around to looking at the article about the organization, since it occurred to me that this group is the back bone of the anti-occupation movement: The US campaign to end the Israeli occupation is a U.S.-based coalition of more than 250 member organizations[1] working to influence United States policy as it relates to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. So expect to see it take a prominent role in new article, once I delete all the material that doesn't mention groups are "anti-occupation." CarolMooreDC ( talk) 23:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 15:51, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Palestine lobby in the United States → Opposition in the United States to the Israeli occupation – This was the article's original title from 2009 to April 2022, when it was changed to the current title of "Palestine lobby in the United States". While I can understand the desire for maintaining parallel naming conventions for this article and Israel lobby in the United States, we run into the problem that several of the organizations described at this article are not lobby organizations, nor is it clear that the gestalt pro-Palestine/anti-Israel/anti-Israeli-occupation movement in the US is best described as a lobby. My first instinct was to retitle this article Pro-Palestine organizations in the United States, but this leads to a different problem: the organizations listed here have been narrowly selected for their opposition to Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories post-1967, but there exist organizations in the US that are pro-Palestinian but do not frame their support in terms of the 1967 borders (whether that's by explicitly calling for the dissolution of the Israeli state, by supporting Palestinian right of return, or by supporting other Palestinian causes not directly related to the territorial possessions of Israel). My sense is that if this article is to be about groups that explicitly oppose the Israeli control of the Israeli-occupied territories as defined at that article, the old title is preferable, and reverting to it is what I am primarily proposing here. That having been said, it may be more encyclopedic to rescope this article to be either about pro-Palestine groups, or pro-Palestine lobbying groups, in which case either Pro-Palestine organizations in the United States or the current title, respectively, would be the best titles. signed, Rosguill talk 18:41, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
I removed all organizations that did not have any sourcing support that they are a part of a Palestine lobby in the US. That left no organizations. Using for example WRMEA articles as evidence that they are a part of some lobby is straightforward OR. nableezy - 20:06, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
I recently made the USCPR page and saw it mentioned here. I've gone and tried to use similar wording and also added an alternative name "pro-Palestine advocacy group".
There are very few titles that explicitly call for a Palestinian lobby and the few that do are usually a bit biased in one direction (lobby has a bad connotation, i suppose). I thought to include an alternative name as well, though I am curious, based on the topics above, if we should do something else instead. homo momo ( talk) 15:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
I've moved an old version of this page to US lobby against Israeli Occupation where this lobby can be treated in an WP:NPOV way. This permits this article to remain in the way it has evolved, to focus on the use of the "anti-Israel lobby" term. This obviates the need for a move. Caveat: " US lobby against Israeli Occupation" is not perhaps the best title, but it's the best I can come up with which meets WP:NPOV. Better suggestions welcome. Rd232 talk 11:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
The article title is acceptable to me. One thing to consider, some lobby groups consider the "Israeli Occupation" to apply to the entire landmass that comprises modern day country of Israel (ie: Israel's government is occupying Palestine), not just the West Bank/Gaza/territories. That should be reflected as well, pending appropriate RS. -- Nsaum75 ( talk) 15:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a better title, but there might be an even better one. — Ashley Y 06:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
It is not a better title. It is worse.
The article is about a shift in political power centers in the United States. It is not strictly about the Israeli occupation. There are many issues on which these groups lobby, and on which the Israeli lobbyists lobby on the opposite side, of which the occupation is only one. There is financial and military aid, both to Israel and to the Arab countries; there is the issue of human rights. There is a lot of money involved. To remove the focus of the article from the arena of US national policy and politics to a focus on the Israeli occupation is, I believe, a mistake.
But never mind what I think. The worst part of this rename is that it was done without consultation. I was hoping that we could create a new editing culture for articles about the dispute, one where cooperation and discussion prevailed over edit warring; where discussion on the talk page preempted, or at least preceded, precipitous cases of being bold.
There are two ways this page can go. It can follow in the footsteps of Gaza War, Muhammad al-Durrah and other pages where battle, chaos, and consequent poor quality are the standard. Or we can try to work together to create an article that is really good and meaningful. The choice is ours. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 06:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
To be bring up another issue that supports quickly re-writing this article to be about the topic from more neutral sources: I think this article could be AfD'd because it IS a whole sale copying of an earlier version of the Anti-Israel lobby in the United States article. I have taken out some of the more irrelevant/POV stuff but the rest of the text remains largely the same as the original copied material. I know there are wikipedia purists who claim that copying from one article to another like that is a copyright violation and grounds for AfD. So those who wanted the article to exist should get busy.
Also please don't forget the article Projects working for peace among Arabs and Israelis which has a lot of info - but which also is quite an overlap with this article (as it should be written). CarolMooreDC ( talk)
Given that the name has changed with "lobby" deleted, this tag SHOULD be removed and I will do so soon, especially given that the tagger hasn't bothered to explain their reasoning, including in light of the change. Any problems? Please explain. CarolMooreDC ( talk) 20:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Random information, as well as sources that do not mention that topic as part of their discussion of the group, obviously are off topic. So a clean up of sources will be done soon. Also those that do will have references to the groups position on occupation made explicit. CarolMooreDC ( talk) 21:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Finally got around to looking at the article about the organization, since it occurred to me that this group is the back bone of the anti-occupation movement: The US campaign to end the Israeli occupation is a U.S.-based coalition of more than 250 member organizations[1] working to influence United States policy as it relates to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. So expect to see it take a prominent role in new article, once I delete all the material that doesn't mention groups are "anti-occupation." CarolMooreDC ( talk) 23:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 15:51, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Palestine lobby in the United States → Opposition in the United States to the Israeli occupation – This was the article's original title from 2009 to April 2022, when it was changed to the current title of "Palestine lobby in the United States". While I can understand the desire for maintaining parallel naming conventions for this article and Israel lobby in the United States, we run into the problem that several of the organizations described at this article are not lobby organizations, nor is it clear that the gestalt pro-Palestine/anti-Israel/anti-Israeli-occupation movement in the US is best described as a lobby. My first instinct was to retitle this article Pro-Palestine organizations in the United States, but this leads to a different problem: the organizations listed here have been narrowly selected for their opposition to Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories post-1967, but there exist organizations in the US that are pro-Palestinian but do not frame their support in terms of the 1967 borders (whether that's by explicitly calling for the dissolution of the Israeli state, by supporting Palestinian right of return, or by supporting other Palestinian causes not directly related to the territorial possessions of Israel). My sense is that if this article is to be about groups that explicitly oppose the Israeli control of the Israeli-occupied territories as defined at that article, the old title is preferable, and reverting to it is what I am primarily proposing here. That having been said, it may be more encyclopedic to rescope this article to be either about pro-Palestine groups, or pro-Palestine lobbying groups, in which case either Pro-Palestine organizations in the United States or the current title, respectively, would be the best titles. signed, Rosguill talk 18:41, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
I removed all organizations that did not have any sourcing support that they are a part of a Palestine lobby in the US. That left no organizations. Using for example WRMEA articles as evidence that they are a part of some lobby is straightforward OR. nableezy - 20:06, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
I recently made the USCPR page and saw it mentioned here. I've gone and tried to use similar wording and also added an alternative name "pro-Palestine advocacy group".
There are very few titles that explicitly call for a Palestinian lobby and the few that do are usually a bit biased in one direction (lobby has a bad connotation, i suppose). I thought to include an alternative name as well, though I am curious, based on the topics above, if we should do something else instead. homo momo ( talk) 15:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)