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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ExSilvissima. Peer reviewers: Sappho Cornelia Catula, Greekazoid.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I moved this to just "Paideia" because I don't think there's anything like a non-Greek Paideia, right? Stan 22:35, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Interesting point. I agree. But then the word can be used such as the Roman Paideia, or the Paideia of any culture. I guess we can say Paideia: Roman etc. The word can grow.
Paideia is also the word in "Wikipedia". "-pedia" is the same word. "Encyclopaedia" "-paedia" is the same word along with Pedogogy or paedogogy with "Ped-" the same word. WHEELER 14:16, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
There is no understanding of Greek culture and its terms, and its society without understanding Paideia. I am having many problems in the Political section because no one understands ancient Greek culture. Most political terms were derived from the Greeks. Yet much of the definitions don't match anything the Greeks said or thought. Especially on what is a Republic. (See, Talk:Republic and Greek Philosophies on Republic). WHEELER 19:14, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This page on Paideia will constantly grow with a constant spiralling of offshoots. This site is by no means finished and many more related articles from others are soon to follow. We definately need more classiscists on the program. WHEELER 19:28, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to list "wikipedia" in the words which contain paideia... self-references are frowned upon I thought. Also, is there any particular reason for using the "encyclopaedia" spelling rather than "encyclopedia"? fabiform | talk 14:25, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I am a traditionalist and I grew up with the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I always loved it. You may change it if you want. WHEELER 15:50, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Kim Bruning has been on board and hasn't said anything about the use of the word 'Wikipedia'. It is a good way for wikipedians to know a little of the etymology of their word. WHEELER 16:03, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Um, I simply had no comment to make on the topic, I'm not an expert here :-) . Fabiform: could you dig up the policy which says self references are specifically bad? We can edit the article based on that policy then. Kim Bruning 18:03, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I disagree with the article's reference to "pedagogy" or "pedagogue" -- the word's origins, as far as linguists can tell, have nothing to do with "Paideia". The word derives from "pais" or "ped" meaning "child" and "agogos" meaning "leader" or "guide", as I recall. I can look up references if needed. Jwrosenzweig 16:14, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
That is exaclty right. Paidia in modern Greek means child. Children and Slaves have the same root basis. Observe.
"Who ever receives a child", The Greek reads "toiouton paidon" This at Mark 9:37. Paidia is Child and Children.
In the Septuagint at Exodus 20:17 where it says, Thou shalt not covet thy manservant nor maid servant the Greek reads "oute Paida" and "oute Paidiskin".
Paidia is the root of all.
Mr. Jwrosenweig you quote from this encyclopaedia and I noticed that this article was messed up; this whole place is all messed up according to Greek words and definitions. From Top to Bottom. WHEELER 14:37, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
From the 'little' Liddell and Scott Ancient Greek Dictionary: "paideia: the rearing or bringing up of a child : teaching, education, discipline, correction. II. youth, childhood. III. handiwork." The root is 'pais', or which declines in the genitive as 'paidos', hence the 'paid-' root, which shows up in latin as 'paed-' and in American english as 'ped-'. 'Pais' means a child, a son or a daughter, a boy, a girl, or, like 'puer' in Latin, a slave or servant. The word does not really mean slave, but rather the slave is was given the title of child, just as waiters are sometimes referred to as 'garçon', or black people referred to as 'boy.' 'Paid-' forms the root of 'paidagogos'. 'Ago' means lead, and so a paidagogos is one who leads a child. From the dictionary: "attending or training boys... the slave who went with a boy from home to school and back again : hence generally, a tutor, teacher, instructor." Paidagogos does not derive it's application to the slave because 'paid' means slave. Some slaves were called paidagogos because of their function within the household. All of these words derive their meaning from pais, or child. I hope that clarifies things a bit for any future editor. I suggest, btw, Perseus ( http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/lexica.html) for help with greek and latin words. (παιδεραστης -- Jan 21, 2006)
Critique of Paideia. I have no time to evaluate it now. I consider adding it to links. Feel free to do it for me, whoever.
—
6birc, 22:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The Scripps National Spelling Bee's study booklet is called "Paideia".
The topic of Classical Greek education, seen as gumnastike together with mousike, came up on the reference desk today, and I realized there was no decent treatment of such a basic point about the subject. So I've put the cleanup tag here, since the growth of the article hoped for in the discussion above has not materialized. The article suffers from the pronouncement that "paideia is this" and "paideia is that," as if paideia were a brand or slogan (as it is in the list of "Schools with philosophy," which patently has nothing to do with the rest of the article and should probably be incorporated into Classical education, which should probably in turn be renamed Classical education movement, since it has nothing to do with education in Classical antiquity!), rather than a very capacious and neutral term for referring to Education in Ancient Greece, which is probably where this article should be moved (on the model of Education in Ancient Rome). This would help redirect the article from a collection of sweeping pronouncements about certain aristocratic and philosophical ideals gathered together in some non-neutral or random fashion, and more towards a broad treatment of an important topic in history. Wareh 20:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC) P.S. Music of ancient Greece does exist. Wareh ( talk) 20:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
The article probably needs a discussion of the dichotomy between doxa and paideia. David.Monniaux ( talk) 09:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This article would benefit from sections detailing how paideia functioned as a common aristocratic cultural horizon in the Roman Empire, not just in Ancient Greece. — Mnemosientje ( t · c) 11:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
this section as it exists has no references whatsoever, and sounds like an ad by the Greek Tourism Bureau or a silly parody. Too sweet to be real, heaven on earth. C'mon, really? can we have some NPOV? or at least some references? The article is mostly OK otherwise YamaPlos talk 23:02, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Nothing in the article connects this topic to LGBT topics. Should the category be removed? Likeanechointheforest ( talk) 18:39, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
I went through the article and did my best to restructure some of the less clear sections (the Lead especially). I removed some things that did not seem to be relevant (like a long bit about "arete" in the "idea of paideia..." section) and added/expanded other parts (like Aristotle's paideia proposal in politics). I also changed and added some citations and added links to Wikipedia pages for some relevant things that hadn't been linked. ExSilvissima ( talk) 00:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Paideia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ExSilvissima. Peer reviewers: Sappho Cornelia Catula, Greekazoid.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I moved this to just "Paideia" because I don't think there's anything like a non-Greek Paideia, right? Stan 22:35, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Interesting point. I agree. But then the word can be used such as the Roman Paideia, or the Paideia of any culture. I guess we can say Paideia: Roman etc. The word can grow.
Paideia is also the word in "Wikipedia". "-pedia" is the same word. "Encyclopaedia" "-paedia" is the same word along with Pedogogy or paedogogy with "Ped-" the same word. WHEELER 14:16, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)
There is no understanding of Greek culture and its terms, and its society without understanding Paideia. I am having many problems in the Political section because no one understands ancient Greek culture. Most political terms were derived from the Greeks. Yet much of the definitions don't match anything the Greeks said or thought. Especially on what is a Republic. (See, Talk:Republic and Greek Philosophies on Republic). WHEELER 19:14, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This page on Paideia will constantly grow with a constant spiralling of offshoots. This site is by no means finished and many more related articles from others are soon to follow. We definately need more classiscists on the program. WHEELER 19:28, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to list "wikipedia" in the words which contain paideia... self-references are frowned upon I thought. Also, is there any particular reason for using the "encyclopaedia" spelling rather than "encyclopedia"? fabiform | talk 14:25, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I am a traditionalist and I grew up with the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I always loved it. You may change it if you want. WHEELER 15:50, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Kim Bruning has been on board and hasn't said anything about the use of the word 'Wikipedia'. It is a good way for wikipedians to know a little of the etymology of their word. WHEELER 16:03, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Um, I simply had no comment to make on the topic, I'm not an expert here :-) . Fabiform: could you dig up the policy which says self references are specifically bad? We can edit the article based on that policy then. Kim Bruning 18:03, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I disagree with the article's reference to "pedagogy" or "pedagogue" -- the word's origins, as far as linguists can tell, have nothing to do with "Paideia". The word derives from "pais" or "ped" meaning "child" and "agogos" meaning "leader" or "guide", as I recall. I can look up references if needed. Jwrosenzweig 16:14, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
That is exaclty right. Paidia in modern Greek means child. Children and Slaves have the same root basis. Observe.
"Who ever receives a child", The Greek reads "toiouton paidon" This at Mark 9:37. Paidia is Child and Children.
In the Septuagint at Exodus 20:17 where it says, Thou shalt not covet thy manservant nor maid servant the Greek reads "oute Paida" and "oute Paidiskin".
Paidia is the root of all.
Mr. Jwrosenweig you quote from this encyclopaedia and I noticed that this article was messed up; this whole place is all messed up according to Greek words and definitions. From Top to Bottom. WHEELER 14:37, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
From the 'little' Liddell and Scott Ancient Greek Dictionary: "paideia: the rearing or bringing up of a child : teaching, education, discipline, correction. II. youth, childhood. III. handiwork." The root is 'pais', or which declines in the genitive as 'paidos', hence the 'paid-' root, which shows up in latin as 'paed-' and in American english as 'ped-'. 'Pais' means a child, a son or a daughter, a boy, a girl, or, like 'puer' in Latin, a slave or servant. The word does not really mean slave, but rather the slave is was given the title of child, just as waiters are sometimes referred to as 'garçon', or black people referred to as 'boy.' 'Paid-' forms the root of 'paidagogos'. 'Ago' means lead, and so a paidagogos is one who leads a child. From the dictionary: "attending or training boys... the slave who went with a boy from home to school and back again : hence generally, a tutor, teacher, instructor." Paidagogos does not derive it's application to the slave because 'paid' means slave. Some slaves were called paidagogos because of their function within the household. All of these words derive their meaning from pais, or child. I hope that clarifies things a bit for any future editor. I suggest, btw, Perseus ( http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/lexica.html) for help with greek and latin words. (παιδεραστης -- Jan 21, 2006)
Critique of Paideia. I have no time to evaluate it now. I consider adding it to links. Feel free to do it for me, whoever.
—
6birc, 22:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The Scripps National Spelling Bee's study booklet is called "Paideia".
The topic of Classical Greek education, seen as gumnastike together with mousike, came up on the reference desk today, and I realized there was no decent treatment of such a basic point about the subject. So I've put the cleanup tag here, since the growth of the article hoped for in the discussion above has not materialized. The article suffers from the pronouncement that "paideia is this" and "paideia is that," as if paideia were a brand or slogan (as it is in the list of "Schools with philosophy," which patently has nothing to do with the rest of the article and should probably be incorporated into Classical education, which should probably in turn be renamed Classical education movement, since it has nothing to do with education in Classical antiquity!), rather than a very capacious and neutral term for referring to Education in Ancient Greece, which is probably where this article should be moved (on the model of Education in Ancient Rome). This would help redirect the article from a collection of sweeping pronouncements about certain aristocratic and philosophical ideals gathered together in some non-neutral or random fashion, and more towards a broad treatment of an important topic in history. Wareh 20:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC) P.S. Music of ancient Greece does exist. Wareh ( talk) 20:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
The article probably needs a discussion of the dichotomy between doxa and paideia. David.Monniaux ( talk) 09:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
This article would benefit from sections detailing how paideia functioned as a common aristocratic cultural horizon in the Roman Empire, not just in Ancient Greece. — Mnemosientje ( t · c) 11:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
this section as it exists has no references whatsoever, and sounds like an ad by the Greek Tourism Bureau or a silly parody. Too sweet to be real, heaven on earth. C'mon, really? can we have some NPOV? or at least some references? The article is mostly OK otherwise YamaPlos talk 23:02, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Nothing in the article connects this topic to LGBT topics. Should the category be removed? Likeanechointheforest ( talk) 18:39, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
I went through the article and did my best to restructure some of the less clear sections (the Lead especially). I removed some things that did not seem to be relevant (like a long bit about "arete" in the "idea of paideia..." section) and added/expanded other parts (like Aristotle's paideia proposal in politics). I also changed and added some citations and added links to Wikipedia pages for some relevant things that hadn't been linked. ExSilvissima ( talk) 00:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)