![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
/User:The_Giant_Puffin just deleted?? the archives?? Aren't they supposed to be linked up top somewhere?? Sorry article didn't make it as a feature since I cleaned it up a lot last summer, but as others have noted it was NOT perfect. Carol Moore 18:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC) User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc
In the Quotes section there is a somewhat less than compelling quote by Jacob Borer. I have searched but couldn't find any scholarly references to Jacob Borer or the quote. Remove?
Do you think the picture and president's comment is suitable for this subject? Whitethunder79 ( talk) 18:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
What does George W. Bush have to do with pacifism? I consider the insertion of the photo and quote as vandalism, especially considering the movement to impeach him as a war criminal. gnomeselby ( talk) 07:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I've been reviewing this article and its talk page for a while now, trying to decide where to begin. I have three main problems with the article as it currently stands:
ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I have taken the liberty of axing the retorts for pacifism in this "Criticisms of Pacifism" section. They present an inappropriate editorial tone. They belong in their own section such as "Rejoinders to Critiques of Pacifism" or the like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.81.231 ( talk) 16:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
As is the article currently stands, it is both misleading and unencyclopaedic. It devotes almost no attention to non-religious forms of pacifism, and up until the 'Criticisms' section, makes no reference to the available philosophical literature on pacifism. The lead-in paragraph needs to be edited for clarity, and is probably in need of expert attention. ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
In addition, there are many religious positions on war that are not mentioned at all, such as those held in Judaism and Islam, which are of great interest in the world today. Paulsnx2 ( talk) 14:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The lead-in paragraph as well as the 'Criticisms' and 'Quotations' section lack clear form and structure. The lead-in paragraph is far from an exhaustive summary on the types of pacifism available, and has further problems such as the suggestion that consequentialism is not a moral position, which I think is ridiculous. The section on criticisms is a complete mess, and the quotes section could stand to be expanded, if not clearly divided into pro-pacifism and anti-pacifism quotes. ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Pacifism is the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes or gaining advantage. Pacifism covers a spectrum of views ranging from the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved; to calls for the abolition of the institutions of the military and war; to opposition to any organization of society through governmental force (anarchist or libertarian pacifism); to rejection of the use of physical violence to obtain political, economic or social goals; to opposition to violence under any circumstance, including defense of self and others.
I wonder if this is the best way to set about defining pacifism. The term is quite broad, and resists an all-encompassing definition. This should be clear from the outset, which it currently is not. Furthermore, this list of things that pacifism "covers" is misleading: for example, a conscientious objector wouldn't fit neatly in any of the categories; additionally, some pacifists might fit more than one category. Rather than give random examples of things a pacifist might believe, woudln't it be better to launch right in to the different ways of dividing up pacifists? (e.g. religious/nonreligious, deontological/consequentialist, absolute/contingent, etc.)
Pacifism may be based on moral principles (a deontological view) or pragmatism (a consequentialist view). Principled pacifism holds that at some point along the spectrum from war to interpersonal physical violence, such violence becomes morally wrong. Pragmatic pacifism holds that the costs of war and inter-personal violence are so substantial that better ways of resolving disputes must be found. Pacifists in general reject theories of Just War.
This section is one of the worst in the lead-in paragraph. First of all, consequentialism IS a moral principle, so the first sentence is making a weird claim. Secondly, pacifism isn't necessarily about deciding where 'along the spectrum' of violence it 'becomes wrong'. A pacifist might hold that there are mitigating circumstances that make violence right or wrong at any level of this 'spectrum', so this is just an oversimplification. As for the last sentence, there is a whole branch of pacifism called just war pacifism that adheres to the definition of just war, but denies that modern wars fit it. It might be argued that this is a minority view, but that would need to be a verifiable statement. To just say that "in general" pacifists do this or that is far from the level of content demanded by an encyclopaedic article.
Pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that non-violent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective. Some pacifists, however, support physical violence for emergency defense of self or others. Others support destruction of property in such emergencies or for conducting symbolic acts of resistance like pouring red paint to represent blood on the outside of military recruiting offices or entering air force bases and hammering on military aircraft. However, part of the pacifist belief system is taking responsibility for one's actions by submitting to arrest and using a trial to publicize opposition to war and other forms of violence.
I can't think of any other way to put this, so forgive my shocking statement: What the hell? What are these "principles of nonviolence" that (all?) "[p]acifists follow"? And this nonsense about "some pacifists" doing violent things is rubbish and a clear violation of NPOV. To me, this would be analogous to having a statement like "Some Christians gossip behind their neighbour's back, despite the fact that Jesus said, 'Love thy neighbour'." in the article on Christianity. What some protestors do in the name of pacifism has nothing to do with pacifism as a whole, and this statement is just an ad-hominem that should be removed.
Dove or dovish are informal terms used, especially in politics, for people who prefer to avoid war or prefer war as a last resort. The terms refer to the story of Noah's Ark in which the dove came to symbolize the hope of salvation and peace. Similarly, in common parlance, the opposite of a dove is a hawk or war hawk.
As I understand it, this is not the correct usage of this term. 'Dove' refers to the members of a political movement that occurs in response to a war-mongering faction. Thus, most 'doves' are not traditional pacifists, and that makes this sentence poorly defined at best and misleading at worst.
ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 18:15, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Right now, there are three articles with significant overlap: pacifism, nonviolence, and nonviolent resistance. The nonviolent resistance article looks to me like it would be more appropriately titled history of nonviolent resistance, and even then it overlaps considerably with at least nonviolence (if not pacifism, also). ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I did a search on 'pacifist' in searching for the Mac OS tool and was redirected here. Probably for good reason, however, I noticed there is a disambiguous page for the term: Pacifist (disambiguation). Maybe the current way is correct, I don't know. Just thought I'd point it out. Thanks. 66.191.19.217 ( talk) 04:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
propose to add love your enemies online book archive to external links
http://loveyourenemies.wordpress.com/category/online-books/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.113.241 ( talk) 12:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
The following sentance is unsupported and presents what is clearly an opinion as fact:
"The Spanish Civil War proved a major test for international pacifism, and the heroic work of pacifist organisations and individuals in that arena has been largely ignored or forgotten by historians, overshadowed by the memory of the International Brigades and other militaristic interventions." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rorschachman ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The Spanish Civil War certainly proved a major test for international pacifism. Because of this Fenner Brockway resigned as chairman of WRI. Howard Clark ( talk) 00:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The article reports individuals and organizations who don’t approve of warfare and certain actions, but it doesn’t tell us that, anywhere in the world, there is a movement that can stop countries from going to war. It is suggested here that Mao’s China, in which the people were taught to respond to invasion by guerilla warfare, is a useful example of how communities can respond to foreign aggression without relying on military force, albeit one that is not likely to be adopted as a means of non-violent resistance in the near future. R Waldo WCU ( talk) 21:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
It seems that a lot of stuff got dumped into "early history", including just about every religious mention of the word "peace", and some stuff that seems very weird (an Italian god named Panda? Quetzalcoatl as a god of peace?). Some skepticism and shears seems like a good thing to apply here. -- Alvestrand ( talk) 04:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
What about a section on pacifist punks? They differ quite much from mainstream pacifism in that they often support violence in self defence as well as violence against inanimate objects. // Liftarn ( talk) 07:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
I added the word "some" to this sentence: "Pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective. Some pacifists, however, support physical violence for emergency defense of self or others." Pacifism is generally understood to be total opposition to war. Some pacifists, but not all, take it further and are opposed to the use of violence in all circumstances. The point is, there are several types of pacifism. Marshall46 ( talk) 12:41, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Just to let you know that I have loaded several cartoons onto Wikimedia Commons under Category:Anti-war cartoons. Feel free to use them on Wikipedia articles. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 08:19, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Your input would be appreciated here. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 16:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
They are conscientious objectors, and refuse to take part in any war (human led anyway) that makes them worthy of mention here.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 13:49, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
JWs are just nitpicky with semantics. They prefer the term "neutrality" just as Amish and Mennonites prefer "nonresistance," but their beliefs coincide closely with the tenets of pacifism except for actively participating in anti-war protests, demonstrations, etc. JGabbard ( talk) 19:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
The Criticism section is hardly that. It pretty much amounts to one big essay on the greatness of pacifism and how it would have better solved world problems. The few criticisms it does mention....are all followed by an excuse as to why they are wrong and/or ill-conceived. Abalu ( talk) 22:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)Abalu
Who would have expected mealy-mouthed, hypocritical , wishy washy bs from the pacifists of all people... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.162.180 ( talk) 00:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Should probably be retitled "Defense of Criticism" since that is what it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.206.83 ( talk) 03:31, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I added tax choice to the see also section but it was removed because there is "no relevance". The relevance is the Opt Out of Iraq War Act. Does anybody dispute the relevance? -- Xerographica ( talk) 21:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
This article implies H.G. Wells was a pacifist. While Wells was a strong campaigner for world peace, he was never a full-fledged pacifist, and Vincent Brome's 1951 bio of Wells refers to him "rolling back the pacifist arguments" during WWI. Wells supported both the First and Second World Wars, so I don't think he should be described as a pacifist. 176.61.94.25 ( talk) 21:59, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a little back-and-forth reverting regarding this photo.
Personally, I am not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand. Certainly Barack Obama is not a pacifist (nor any other U.S. president). Is it salient and relevant to the article? 71.169.184.238 ( talk) 19:27, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/17/opinion/costa-rica-s-fierce-pacifist.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 01:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Please add to Draft:Pacifism in France, Draft:Pacifism in Germany, and Draft:Pacifism in the United States. Thanks. M2545 ( talk) 16:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 5 external links on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:23, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Pacifism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:41, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:32, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Please stop trying to turn the first sentence into one. It should be a summary of its most important contents. See MOS:LEAD. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:08, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
It seems like the article at present is using an unfortunate mix of American and non-American spelling. Can we reach a consensus on one and convert everything over? -- Fyrael ( talk) 18:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed under the religious section, there is no reference to Hinduism. Any objections to adding another section for this religion? 66.191.19.68 ( talk) 18:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
it should mention Gandhi 69.140.35.147 ( talk) 10:59, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
There is no mention of any Jewish pacifist movements, such as the Jewish Peace Fellowship (for which I see there is also no page!) A lot of pre-Holocaust Hasidic groups were also pacifists. I will add this project to my to-do page and try to get something done for here and a JPF page eventually, if nobody objects... Rooster613 ( talk) 02:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)rooster613
From what I know pacifism is a pretty core value for Sikhs, any objections to adding a section for Sikhism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeaceLoverStephenTrue1111 ( talk • contribs) 14:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the "Judaism" section implies that pacifism was responsible for the death of many Jews in the Holocaust. This is not a neutral claim; it represents one possible perspective on historical events, and no other perspectives are cited. The paragraph also includes what appears to be the author's own (biased) speculation, particularly in the last two sentences, e.g.: "Had pacifism gained more support, the Allies might have lost the war and virtually all Jews killed and democracy and freedom severely limited in the world." I recommend either (1) that this paragraph be removed entirely or (2) that it be clarified to indicate that it represents one particular point of view. If (2) is chosen, other points of view should be included. 209.6.151.101 ( talk) 19:02, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
The section on Jewish pacifism needs some sort of disclaimer, or a tag about its neutrality. It seems to present a social consensus on the subject without any liturgical citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.144.121 ( talk) 11:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I had modified the paragraph to try and keep the criticism while removing the editorial voice, but discovered that this entire paragraph fails to substantiate its claims with suitable sources. Since this has been a long-standing criticism and nothing has been done to address these problems, I have deleted the offending paragraph. UmarMayKnow ( talk) 09:27, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The first paragraph is good and according to majority views, removing holocaust is wrong and to deny infulence of it, is not serious. POV views should be keep for blogs etc not for wikipedia. 178.221.65.146 ( talk) 14:40, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Content sourced and majority view, do not try to think to remove or deny what happened in ww2 and infulence of it. Pov views for blog or so. There was content " People who offered no resistance to the Nazis enabled them to carry out their oppression and aggression, costing tens of millions of lives in World War II. Had pacifism gained more support, the Allies might have lost the war and virtually all Jews would have been killed" That is what I found pov and not needed and what could be or not, that content I didnt put back. All other is good, historical, well known and majority view. 178.221.65.146 ( talk) 00:59, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Position in religion section re-ordered for consistency as section is otherwise alphabetically ordered.
Repetition of hypertext for words "Baha'i Faith" and "Baha'u'llah" removed on second occurence.
Daniel De Mol (
talk)
14:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Can we consider replacing one of the main article links under Buddhism with the "Buddhist Ethics" article? Right now it links to "Buddhism and Violence" which is extremely biased, poorly written, and only provides examples of Buddhists who commit violence with no discussion on Buddhist philopsy on violence. The "Buddhist Ethics" article is high-quality and provides discussions on Buddhist ethics including war an violence without significant bias (and also includes examples of Buddhist groups that have supporting violence). Joiedevivre123321 ( talk) 02:47, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2018 and 13 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Cgalliford.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
/User:The_Giant_Puffin just deleted?? the archives?? Aren't they supposed to be linked up top somewhere?? Sorry article didn't make it as a feature since I cleaned it up a lot last summer, but as others have noted it was NOT perfect. Carol Moore 18:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC) User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc
In the Quotes section there is a somewhat less than compelling quote by Jacob Borer. I have searched but couldn't find any scholarly references to Jacob Borer or the quote. Remove?
Do you think the picture and president's comment is suitable for this subject? Whitethunder79 ( talk) 18:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
What does George W. Bush have to do with pacifism? I consider the insertion of the photo and quote as vandalism, especially considering the movement to impeach him as a war criminal. gnomeselby ( talk) 07:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I've been reviewing this article and its talk page for a while now, trying to decide where to begin. I have three main problems with the article as it currently stands:
ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I have taken the liberty of axing the retorts for pacifism in this "Criticisms of Pacifism" section. They present an inappropriate editorial tone. They belong in their own section such as "Rejoinders to Critiques of Pacifism" or the like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.81.231 ( talk) 16:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
As is the article currently stands, it is both misleading and unencyclopaedic. It devotes almost no attention to non-religious forms of pacifism, and up until the 'Criticisms' section, makes no reference to the available philosophical literature on pacifism. The lead-in paragraph needs to be edited for clarity, and is probably in need of expert attention. ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
In addition, there are many religious positions on war that are not mentioned at all, such as those held in Judaism and Islam, which are of great interest in the world today. Paulsnx2 ( talk) 14:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The lead-in paragraph as well as the 'Criticisms' and 'Quotations' section lack clear form and structure. The lead-in paragraph is far from an exhaustive summary on the types of pacifism available, and has further problems such as the suggestion that consequentialism is not a moral position, which I think is ridiculous. The section on criticisms is a complete mess, and the quotes section could stand to be expanded, if not clearly divided into pro-pacifism and anti-pacifism quotes. ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Pacifism is the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes or gaining advantage. Pacifism covers a spectrum of views ranging from the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved; to calls for the abolition of the institutions of the military and war; to opposition to any organization of society through governmental force (anarchist or libertarian pacifism); to rejection of the use of physical violence to obtain political, economic or social goals; to opposition to violence under any circumstance, including defense of self and others.
I wonder if this is the best way to set about defining pacifism. The term is quite broad, and resists an all-encompassing definition. This should be clear from the outset, which it currently is not. Furthermore, this list of things that pacifism "covers" is misleading: for example, a conscientious objector wouldn't fit neatly in any of the categories; additionally, some pacifists might fit more than one category. Rather than give random examples of things a pacifist might believe, woudln't it be better to launch right in to the different ways of dividing up pacifists? (e.g. religious/nonreligious, deontological/consequentialist, absolute/contingent, etc.)
Pacifism may be based on moral principles (a deontological view) or pragmatism (a consequentialist view). Principled pacifism holds that at some point along the spectrum from war to interpersonal physical violence, such violence becomes morally wrong. Pragmatic pacifism holds that the costs of war and inter-personal violence are so substantial that better ways of resolving disputes must be found. Pacifists in general reject theories of Just War.
This section is one of the worst in the lead-in paragraph. First of all, consequentialism IS a moral principle, so the first sentence is making a weird claim. Secondly, pacifism isn't necessarily about deciding where 'along the spectrum' of violence it 'becomes wrong'. A pacifist might hold that there are mitigating circumstances that make violence right or wrong at any level of this 'spectrum', so this is just an oversimplification. As for the last sentence, there is a whole branch of pacifism called just war pacifism that adheres to the definition of just war, but denies that modern wars fit it. It might be argued that this is a minority view, but that would need to be a verifiable statement. To just say that "in general" pacifists do this or that is far from the level of content demanded by an encyclopaedic article.
Pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that non-violent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective. Some pacifists, however, support physical violence for emergency defense of self or others. Others support destruction of property in such emergencies or for conducting symbolic acts of resistance like pouring red paint to represent blood on the outside of military recruiting offices or entering air force bases and hammering on military aircraft. However, part of the pacifist belief system is taking responsibility for one's actions by submitting to arrest and using a trial to publicize opposition to war and other forms of violence.
I can't think of any other way to put this, so forgive my shocking statement: What the hell? What are these "principles of nonviolence" that (all?) "[p]acifists follow"? And this nonsense about "some pacifists" doing violent things is rubbish and a clear violation of NPOV. To me, this would be analogous to having a statement like "Some Christians gossip behind their neighbour's back, despite the fact that Jesus said, 'Love thy neighbour'." in the article on Christianity. What some protestors do in the name of pacifism has nothing to do with pacifism as a whole, and this statement is just an ad-hominem that should be removed.
Dove or dovish are informal terms used, especially in politics, for people who prefer to avoid war or prefer war as a last resort. The terms refer to the story of Noah's Ark in which the dove came to symbolize the hope of salvation and peace. Similarly, in common parlance, the opposite of a dove is a hawk or war hawk.
As I understand it, this is not the correct usage of this term. 'Dove' refers to the members of a political movement that occurs in response to a war-mongering faction. Thus, most 'doves' are not traditional pacifists, and that makes this sentence poorly defined at best and misleading at worst.
ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 18:15, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Right now, there are three articles with significant overlap: pacifism, nonviolence, and nonviolent resistance. The nonviolent resistance article looks to me like it would be more appropriately titled history of nonviolent resistance, and even then it overlaps considerably with at least nonviolence (if not pacifism, also). ρ∈∧⊂∈ ∴ Heelan Coo ( Talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I did a search on 'pacifist' in searching for the Mac OS tool and was redirected here. Probably for good reason, however, I noticed there is a disambiguous page for the term: Pacifist (disambiguation). Maybe the current way is correct, I don't know. Just thought I'd point it out. Thanks. 66.191.19.217 ( talk) 04:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
propose to add love your enemies online book archive to external links
http://loveyourenemies.wordpress.com/category/online-books/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.113.241 ( talk) 12:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
The following sentance is unsupported and presents what is clearly an opinion as fact:
"The Spanish Civil War proved a major test for international pacifism, and the heroic work of pacifist organisations and individuals in that arena has been largely ignored or forgotten by historians, overshadowed by the memory of the International Brigades and other militaristic interventions." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rorschachman ( talk • contribs) 18:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
The Spanish Civil War certainly proved a major test for international pacifism. Because of this Fenner Brockway resigned as chairman of WRI. Howard Clark ( talk) 00:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
The article reports individuals and organizations who don’t approve of warfare and certain actions, but it doesn’t tell us that, anywhere in the world, there is a movement that can stop countries from going to war. It is suggested here that Mao’s China, in which the people were taught to respond to invasion by guerilla warfare, is a useful example of how communities can respond to foreign aggression without relying on military force, albeit one that is not likely to be adopted as a means of non-violent resistance in the near future. R Waldo WCU ( talk) 21:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
It seems that a lot of stuff got dumped into "early history", including just about every religious mention of the word "peace", and some stuff that seems very weird (an Italian god named Panda? Quetzalcoatl as a god of peace?). Some skepticism and shears seems like a good thing to apply here. -- Alvestrand ( talk) 04:36, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
What about a section on pacifist punks? They differ quite much from mainstream pacifism in that they often support violence in self defence as well as violence against inanimate objects. // Liftarn ( talk) 07:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
I added the word "some" to this sentence: "Pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective. Some pacifists, however, support physical violence for emergency defense of self or others." Pacifism is generally understood to be total opposition to war. Some pacifists, but not all, take it further and are opposed to the use of violence in all circumstances. The point is, there are several types of pacifism. Marshall46 ( talk) 12:41, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Just to let you know that I have loaded several cartoons onto Wikimedia Commons under Category:Anti-war cartoons. Feel free to use them on Wikipedia articles. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 08:19, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Your input would be appreciated here. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 16:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
They are conscientious objectors, and refuse to take part in any war (human led anyway) that makes them worthy of mention here.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 13:49, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
JWs are just nitpicky with semantics. They prefer the term "neutrality" just as Amish and Mennonites prefer "nonresistance," but their beliefs coincide closely with the tenets of pacifism except for actively participating in anti-war protests, demonstrations, etc. JGabbard ( talk) 19:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
The Criticism section is hardly that. It pretty much amounts to one big essay on the greatness of pacifism and how it would have better solved world problems. The few criticisms it does mention....are all followed by an excuse as to why they are wrong and/or ill-conceived. Abalu ( talk) 22:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)Abalu
Who would have expected mealy-mouthed, hypocritical , wishy washy bs from the pacifists of all people... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.162.180 ( talk) 00:07, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Should probably be retitled "Defense of Criticism" since that is what it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.206.83 ( talk) 03:31, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I added tax choice to the see also section but it was removed because there is "no relevance". The relevance is the Opt Out of Iraq War Act. Does anybody dispute the relevance? -- Xerographica ( talk) 21:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
This article implies H.G. Wells was a pacifist. While Wells was a strong campaigner for world peace, he was never a full-fledged pacifist, and Vincent Brome's 1951 bio of Wells refers to him "rolling back the pacifist arguments" during WWI. Wells supported both the First and Second World Wars, so I don't think he should be described as a pacifist. 176.61.94.25 ( talk) 21:59, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a little back-and-forth reverting regarding this photo.
Personally, I am not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand. Certainly Barack Obama is not a pacifist (nor any other U.S. president). Is it salient and relevant to the article? 71.169.184.238 ( talk) 19:27, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/17/opinion/costa-rica-s-fierce-pacifist.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 01:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Please add to Draft:Pacifism in France, Draft:Pacifism in Germany, and Draft:Pacifism in the United States. Thanks. M2545 ( talk) 16:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 5 external links on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Pacifism. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:23, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Pacifism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:41, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:32, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Please stop trying to turn the first sentence into one. It should be a summary of its most important contents. See MOS:LEAD. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:08, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
It seems like the article at present is using an unfortunate mix of American and non-American spelling. Can we reach a consensus on one and convert everything over? -- Fyrael ( talk) 18:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed under the religious section, there is no reference to Hinduism. Any objections to adding another section for this religion? 66.191.19.68 ( talk) 18:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
it should mention Gandhi 69.140.35.147 ( talk) 10:59, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
There is no mention of any Jewish pacifist movements, such as the Jewish Peace Fellowship (for which I see there is also no page!) A lot of pre-Holocaust Hasidic groups were also pacifists. I will add this project to my to-do page and try to get something done for here and a JPF page eventually, if nobody objects... Rooster613 ( talk) 02:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)rooster613
From what I know pacifism is a pretty core value for Sikhs, any objections to adding a section for Sikhism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeaceLoverStephenTrue1111 ( talk • contribs) 14:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the "Judaism" section implies that pacifism was responsible for the death of many Jews in the Holocaust. This is not a neutral claim; it represents one possible perspective on historical events, and no other perspectives are cited. The paragraph also includes what appears to be the author's own (biased) speculation, particularly in the last two sentences, e.g.: "Had pacifism gained more support, the Allies might have lost the war and virtually all Jews killed and democracy and freedom severely limited in the world." I recommend either (1) that this paragraph be removed entirely or (2) that it be clarified to indicate that it represents one particular point of view. If (2) is chosen, other points of view should be included. 209.6.151.101 ( talk) 19:02, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
The section on Jewish pacifism needs some sort of disclaimer, or a tag about its neutrality. It seems to present a social consensus on the subject without any liturgical citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.144.121 ( talk) 11:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I had modified the paragraph to try and keep the criticism while removing the editorial voice, but discovered that this entire paragraph fails to substantiate its claims with suitable sources. Since this has been a long-standing criticism and nothing has been done to address these problems, I have deleted the offending paragraph. UmarMayKnow ( talk) 09:27, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The first paragraph is good and according to majority views, removing holocaust is wrong and to deny infulence of it, is not serious. POV views should be keep for blogs etc not for wikipedia. 178.221.65.146 ( talk) 14:40, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Content sourced and majority view, do not try to think to remove or deny what happened in ww2 and infulence of it. Pov views for blog or so. There was content " People who offered no resistance to the Nazis enabled them to carry out their oppression and aggression, costing tens of millions of lives in World War II. Had pacifism gained more support, the Allies might have lost the war and virtually all Jews would have been killed" That is what I found pov and not needed and what could be or not, that content I didnt put back. All other is good, historical, well known and majority view. 178.221.65.146 ( talk) 00:59, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
Position in religion section re-ordered for consistency as section is otherwise alphabetically ordered.
Repetition of hypertext for words "Baha'i Faith" and "Baha'u'llah" removed on second occurence.
Daniel De Mol (
talk)
14:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Can we consider replacing one of the main article links under Buddhism with the "Buddhist Ethics" article? Right now it links to "Buddhism and Violence" which is extremely biased, poorly written, and only provides examples of Buddhists who commit violence with no discussion on Buddhist philopsy on violence. The "Buddhist Ethics" article is high-quality and provides discussions on Buddhist ethics including war an violence without significant bias (and also includes examples of Buddhist groups that have supporting violence). Joiedevivre123321 ( talk) 02:47, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2018 and 13 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Cgalliford.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 06:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)