List of victims of the Our Lady of the Angels school fire was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 20 December 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Our Lady of the Angels School fire. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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It appears that the section about the Life Magazine cover is wrong. The article states that the December 15, 1958 cover shows the firefighter carrying out a dead victim, however a cover search at Life.com reveals this: http://www.life.com/Life/cover_search/view?coverkeyword=&startMonth=12&startYear=1958&endMonth=12&endYear=1958&pageNumber=1&indexNumber=2 ...which is most definitely not the image described. Maybe I'm missing something here, so if the article is wrong, then correct it; otherwise, please show some evidence of the cover described for interested parties. Correction has been made by DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com on September 3, 2007, as the photo is indeed on an inside article within the magazine rather than on the cover itself.
In December 1,1958 fire broke out in a stairway in the Our Lady of the Angels School.♠
This article needs a narrative description to go along with the diagrams. -- Metropolitan90 08:23, July 19, 2005 (UTC) These drawings appear to have been taken from http://www.olafire.com/FireStages.asp?S=2.
New narrative description added February 15, 2006 by DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com, as well many successive general improvements of the entire article. All facts cited aretaken from the two books on the subject and summarized from the OLA official website.
I strongly suggest someone get permission or independantly recreate the explanations for the diagrams. By themselves they aren't the most interpretable, or look (like the last one) like someone scrawled on them... Thanx... 68.39.174.238 00:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC).
On November 22, 2006, I added references in the text of the article that pertain to the six diagram images of the "progression of the fire." I believe these are correctly situated, as I have a good understanding of the history of this fire and how it spread throughout the building. From DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com.
The charter school Nuestra America closed in 2002, anyone know if the former Our Lady of the Angels school building is being used currently? If so, what as-- a school, apartments, something else? Jaguara 16:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I have photographs of the area that I took in September 2006. Most were taken inside the church but some show the outside of the school, the convent, the area around it, etc. I have one photo that shows a canopy with the name of the Galapagos Charter School. (Funambules 6 December 2007).
Funambules ( talk) 16:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
A list of all the hospitals to which victims were taken is just one example of extraneous information in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.59.115 ( talk) 01:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 01:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
==Firefighter image==du I added the iconic firefighter image, as a fair use image. the list of victims includes those injured, which is way too much detail. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 19:26, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
I see the identity of the arsonist has again been deleted. If it's because there are no reliable, verifiable sources I'm not concerned about it, but I fear that the name(s) are being deleted due to individual opinions that the general public has no right to have this information. ChiHistoryeditor 19:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
The adding/deleting without comment continues. Does anyone want to weigh in on this issue? ChiHistoryeditor 18:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChiHistoryeditor ( talk • contribs)
You should try typing his name onto the olafire.com website. It gets blotted out by automatic filter. You can use both Philip Presti or Philip Decker and see this occurs. We aren't bound by their rules on Wikipedia. They can join the church in covering up the crime. I won't.
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.
It's worth noting that John Kuenster, author of To Sleep With the Angels, did speak with Presti before Presti died in 2004. Presti said the matter was between him "and his confessor." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:48F8:28:C15:41E9:CD99:C6DD:A222 ( talk) 15:00, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
How can you protect it under rules governing biographies of living persons when the arsonist, Philip Presti, died in 2004 of cancer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.111.110.102 ( talk) 17:20, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
No sooner does page protection expire than a new IP shows up and adds the name again. At this point I'm leaning towards permanent semi-protection, though that does feel a little like a nuclear option. My position is that this has been going on for far too long, and while I and others have repeatedly requested a source citing the boy's name, no one has been able to produce one. It seems to be added mostly by IPs, so I think permanent semi-protection would mitigate the worst of it. Would anyone like to weigh in, for or against?
I'd also like to add that the lack of a source is not for lack of trying; I've been searching out everything I can related to the fire, and nowhere have I found a reliable source for the boy's name. NekoKatsun ( talk) 00:10, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
The information is out there. There are two separate, (Cook County Circuit Court and the Chicago Fire Department Investigative archives) that have the name of Philip A. Decker as the suspected arsonist. A freedom of information request has been initiated.
The original confession has the arsonist’s address. You can trace the aforementioned Decker/Presti to the address. Kray78 ( talk) 01:34, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Johnathon Cain of the rock group "Journey" was amoung the survivers. Testimony thru "Paula White Ministries"(Youtube) 75.143.110.238 ( talk) 22:25, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Someone added the Johnathon Cain information again, so I deleted it as unsourced content. If someone can provide a reliable source, the information can be re-added. ChiHistoryeditor ( talk) 18:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Jonathan Cain wrote a song for the 50th Anniversary for his classmates. He was in the school during the fire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kray78 ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Watch the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductions from 2017. Journey was inducted, and Johnathon Cain mentions that he survived a terrible school fire in Chicago during his acceptance speech. Pretty sure there weren't that many terrible fires in Chicago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:242:C000:739D:1F0:B700:EF29:217D ( talk) 06:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Our Lady of the Angels School fire. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
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"escape the winter chill ... raced into the school ... opened their doors to provide sanctuary and warmth" -- need I say more? E Eng 04:46, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I do not understand this discussion. Although it's still officially autumn on Dec. 1, the weather could have been winter-cold for all I know.
Add mention of Daniel Grimaldi's role in rescuing students during the fire. The olafire.com includes this regarding Daniel Grimaldi's role: "Daniel was returning home from nearby barbershop, when he saw children streaming out of the school. 'I ran to the school and went right in through the front door. It seemed all right there, so I ran upstairs. As soon as I got to the second floor, I saw smoke so thick you couldn't move. The boys and girls were screaming for help. I shouted "Grab my hand." Some of them grabbed my hand and I led them back down the stairs.' He soon found that his two children, Frank and Mary Anne, had safely escaped on their own." <ref> http://www.olafire.com/people.asp#G<ref> <ref> http://www.olafire.com/NewsFrame.asp?id=16<ref>
A quick search online produces references to Daniel Grimaldi in the Terre Haute Tribune, Indianapolis Star, and Miami Daily News papers as well. <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/105708357/<ref> <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/30264654/<ref> <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/83980246/<ref> Jakowalczyk ( talk) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)Jakowalczyk Jakowalczyk ( talk) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Suggested revision is at the end of the message you are reading. In the section about Room 211 (one of the rooms in that school), there is this sentence at the end:
Sister Mary Helaine O'Neill, the teacher, was severely burned died on September 27, 1975.
I think I understand what information is being communicated, but the above sentence's structure is defective. Please change to the following (assuming it's correct -- I was able to find the names of the three nuns who died as result of this fire):
Sister Mary Helaine O'Neill, the teacher, was severely burned, but survived; she died on September 27, 1975. 167.102.56.146 ( talk) 19:06, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to add to chronicled list of books (in paragraph 3) and also in the Further Reading section:
The Immaculate Deception by Robert Chiappetta (Page Publishing, 2015) 173.15.99.217 ( talk) 14:40, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Reliable Sources Added:
Publishers website: https://www.pagepublishing.com/portfolio-view/the-immaculate-deception/
Reader Reviews: https://www.amazon.com/Immaculate-Deception-Robert-Chiappetta/dp/1681391678#customerReviews — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.99.217 ( talk) 18:39, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Wicki link says it"s a plumbing nipple. Wrong context. 2603:6000:D700:194D:757A:F2C5:8D33:BA36 ( talk) 23:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Under "Popular Culture," the "Our Obligation" link leading to the Internet Archive returns a message on the site that reads, "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine" (as of 2023.1115) Laine515 ( talk) 20:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Dead link}}
template, but this is a bare URL in the article body that probably shouldn't be there. signed,
Willondon (
talk) 20:12, 15 November 2023 (UTC)The Our Lady of the Angels personal website disputed an aspect attributed to Mary Helaine O'Neill (a nun of the BVM Sisters who taught at OLA), which did not happen because of a lack of a stairwell.
Firstly, O'Neill died in 1975 (in other words, no BLP considerations in this discussion):
There had been stories in newspapers stating that she bridged a stairwell to help students cross over such as in this opinion commentary:
Her efforts were joined by those of fellow Sister Helaine O'Neill, who literally used her body as a human bridge for children to climb across over a flaming stairwell
However, if she had had access to a stairwell, then the death rate in her classroom would have been lower. From what I see in OLA-related articles, her classroom never did have access to a stairwell. The OLA personal website had stated that there was no evidence of where the statement came from.
The death toll of Room 211 (O'Neill's classroom) was 24.
William R. Edington (last student to die, was in Room 211) died in 1959:
This is why opinion sections are not the best sourcing for Wikipedia: there is less, if any, fact checking of articles.
Nobody had inserted the O'Neill stairwell story in the article, but I made this section to be proactive. WhisperToMe ( talk) 00:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
List of victims of the Our Lady of the Angels school fire was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 20 December 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Our Lady of the Angels School fire. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It appears that the section about the Life Magazine cover is wrong. The article states that the December 15, 1958 cover shows the firefighter carrying out a dead victim, however a cover search at Life.com reveals this: http://www.life.com/Life/cover_search/view?coverkeyword=&startMonth=12&startYear=1958&endMonth=12&endYear=1958&pageNumber=1&indexNumber=2 ...which is most definitely not the image described. Maybe I'm missing something here, so if the article is wrong, then correct it; otherwise, please show some evidence of the cover described for interested parties. Correction has been made by DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com on September 3, 2007, as the photo is indeed on an inside article within the magazine rather than on the cover itself.
In December 1,1958 fire broke out in a stairway in the Our Lady of the Angels School.♠
This article needs a narrative description to go along with the diagrams. -- Metropolitan90 08:23, July 19, 2005 (UTC) These drawings appear to have been taken from http://www.olafire.com/FireStages.asp?S=2.
New narrative description added February 15, 2006 by DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com, as well many successive general improvements of the entire article. All facts cited aretaken from the two books on the subject and summarized from the OLA official website.
I strongly suggest someone get permission or independantly recreate the explanations for the diagrams. By themselves they aren't the most interpretable, or look (like the last one) like someone scrawled on them... Thanx... 68.39.174.238 00:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC).
On November 22, 2006, I added references in the text of the article that pertain to the six diagram images of the "progression of the fire." I believe these are correctly situated, as I have a good understanding of the history of this fire and how it spread throughout the building. From DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com.
The charter school Nuestra America closed in 2002, anyone know if the former Our Lady of the Angels school building is being used currently? If so, what as-- a school, apartments, something else? Jaguara 16:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I have photographs of the area that I took in September 2006. Most were taken inside the church but some show the outside of the school, the convent, the area around it, etc. I have one photo that shows a canopy with the name of the Galapagos Charter School. (Funambules 6 December 2007).
Funambules ( talk) 16:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
A list of all the hospitals to which victims were taken is just one example of extraneous information in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.59.115 ( talk) 01:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 01:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
==Firefighter image==du I added the iconic firefighter image, as a fair use image. the list of victims includes those injured, which is way too much detail. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 19:26, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
I see the identity of the arsonist has again been deleted. If it's because there are no reliable, verifiable sources I'm not concerned about it, but I fear that the name(s) are being deleted due to individual opinions that the general public has no right to have this information. ChiHistoryeditor 19:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
The adding/deleting without comment continues. Does anyone want to weigh in on this issue? ChiHistoryeditor 18:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChiHistoryeditor ( talk • contribs)
You should try typing his name onto the olafire.com website. It gets blotted out by automatic filter. You can use both Philip Presti or Philip Decker and see this occurs. We aren't bound by their rules on Wikipedia. They can join the church in covering up the crime. I won't.
Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.
It's worth noting that John Kuenster, author of To Sleep With the Angels, did speak with Presti before Presti died in 2004. Presti said the matter was between him "and his confessor." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:48F8:28:C15:41E9:CD99:C6DD:A222 ( talk) 15:00, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
How can you protect it under rules governing biographies of living persons when the arsonist, Philip Presti, died in 2004 of cancer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.111.110.102 ( talk) 17:20, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
No sooner does page protection expire than a new IP shows up and adds the name again. At this point I'm leaning towards permanent semi-protection, though that does feel a little like a nuclear option. My position is that this has been going on for far too long, and while I and others have repeatedly requested a source citing the boy's name, no one has been able to produce one. It seems to be added mostly by IPs, so I think permanent semi-protection would mitigate the worst of it. Would anyone like to weigh in, for or against?
I'd also like to add that the lack of a source is not for lack of trying; I've been searching out everything I can related to the fire, and nowhere have I found a reliable source for the boy's name. NekoKatsun ( talk) 00:10, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
The information is out there. There are two separate, (Cook County Circuit Court and the Chicago Fire Department Investigative archives) that have the name of Philip A. Decker as the suspected arsonist. A freedom of information request has been initiated.
The original confession has the arsonist’s address. You can trace the aforementioned Decker/Presti to the address. Kray78 ( talk) 01:34, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Johnathon Cain of the rock group "Journey" was amoung the survivers. Testimony thru "Paula White Ministries"(Youtube) 75.143.110.238 ( talk) 22:25, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Someone added the Johnathon Cain information again, so I deleted it as unsourced content. If someone can provide a reliable source, the information can be re-added. ChiHistoryeditor ( talk) 18:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Jonathan Cain wrote a song for the 50th Anniversary for his classmates. He was in the school during the fire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kray78 ( talk • contribs) 04:50, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
Watch the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductions from 2017. Journey was inducted, and Johnathon Cain mentions that he survived a terrible school fire in Chicago during his acceptance speech. Pretty sure there weren't that many terrible fires in Chicago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:242:C000:739D:1F0:B700:EF29:217D ( talk) 06:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Our Lady of the Angels School fire. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:23, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
"escape the winter chill ... raced into the school ... opened their doors to provide sanctuary and warmth" -- need I say more? E Eng 04:46, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I do not understand this discussion. Although it's still officially autumn on Dec. 1, the weather could have been winter-cold for all I know.
Add mention of Daniel Grimaldi's role in rescuing students during the fire. The olafire.com includes this regarding Daniel Grimaldi's role: "Daniel was returning home from nearby barbershop, when he saw children streaming out of the school. 'I ran to the school and went right in through the front door. It seemed all right there, so I ran upstairs. As soon as I got to the second floor, I saw smoke so thick you couldn't move. The boys and girls were screaming for help. I shouted "Grab my hand." Some of them grabbed my hand and I led them back down the stairs.' He soon found that his two children, Frank and Mary Anne, had safely escaped on their own." <ref> http://www.olafire.com/people.asp#G<ref> <ref> http://www.olafire.com/NewsFrame.asp?id=16<ref>
A quick search online produces references to Daniel Grimaldi in the Terre Haute Tribune, Indianapolis Star, and Miami Daily News papers as well. <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/105708357/<ref> <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/30264654/<ref> <ref> https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/83980246/<ref> Jakowalczyk ( talk) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)Jakowalczyk Jakowalczyk ( talk) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Suggested revision is at the end of the message you are reading. In the section about Room 211 (one of the rooms in that school), there is this sentence at the end:
Sister Mary Helaine O'Neill, the teacher, was severely burned died on September 27, 1975.
I think I understand what information is being communicated, but the above sentence's structure is defective. Please change to the following (assuming it's correct -- I was able to find the names of the three nuns who died as result of this fire):
Sister Mary Helaine O'Neill, the teacher, was severely burned, but survived; she died on September 27, 1975. 167.102.56.146 ( talk) 19:06, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Request to add to chronicled list of books (in paragraph 3) and also in the Further Reading section:
The Immaculate Deception by Robert Chiappetta (Page Publishing, 2015) 173.15.99.217 ( talk) 14:40, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Reliable Sources Added:
Publishers website: https://www.pagepublishing.com/portfolio-view/the-immaculate-deception/
Reader Reviews: https://www.amazon.com/Immaculate-Deception-Robert-Chiappetta/dp/1681391678#customerReviews — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.99.217 ( talk) 18:39, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Wicki link says it"s a plumbing nipple. Wrong context. 2603:6000:D700:194D:757A:F2C5:8D33:BA36 ( talk) 23:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Under "Popular Culture," the "Our Obligation" link leading to the Internet Archive returns a message on the site that reads, "This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine" (as of 2023.1115) Laine515 ( talk) 20:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
{{
Dead link}}
template, but this is a bare URL in the article body that probably shouldn't be there. signed,
Willondon (
talk) 20:12, 15 November 2023 (UTC)The Our Lady of the Angels personal website disputed an aspect attributed to Mary Helaine O'Neill (a nun of the BVM Sisters who taught at OLA), which did not happen because of a lack of a stairwell.
Firstly, O'Neill died in 1975 (in other words, no BLP considerations in this discussion):
There had been stories in newspapers stating that she bridged a stairwell to help students cross over such as in this opinion commentary:
Her efforts were joined by those of fellow Sister Helaine O'Neill, who literally used her body as a human bridge for children to climb across over a flaming stairwell
However, if she had had access to a stairwell, then the death rate in her classroom would have been lower. From what I see in OLA-related articles, her classroom never did have access to a stairwell. The OLA personal website had stated that there was no evidence of where the statement came from.
The death toll of Room 211 (O'Neill's classroom) was 24.
William R. Edington (last student to die, was in Room 211) died in 1959:
This is why opinion sections are not the best sourcing for Wikipedia: there is less, if any, fact checking of articles.
Nobody had inserted the O'Neill stairwell story in the article, but I made this section to be proactive. WhisperToMe ( talk) 00:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC)