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Armeno-Georgian marchland of Tao
Hi everbody! It is really nice to see that there are other people who are interested in the historical monuments of north-eastern Turkey. Please keep up the good work!
However, the description of the church at Oshki is far from complete, and more photographs would be very useful to convey the exceptional beauty of this building which, sadly, is in a very bad state of preservation, and which, if nothing is done to secure it, might colapse very soon.
If you have a recent photo of the widening crack in the north-western pendentive, please publish it on this page. It would also be good to have a photo of the deesis-relief (from the octagonal pier in the south-western porch) which was destroyed in 2000. Maybe somebody has a pre-2000 photograph of the carved relief of St Nino, too? It was placed on the north side of the now missing deesis-group.
What I do not understand, is the claim that "The monastery at Osk/Oski belonged to the Armenian Chalcedonians."
The monastery church of Oshki was, as correctly stated, built between 963 and 973 by the two Bagrationi brothers Bagrat and David. They were Georgians, I believe, and all the inscriptions on the facades of the church are in the Georgian language. I can therefore not see why Oshki should have been an Armenian Chalcedonian monastery. Could somebody please correct this?
I know that one Armenian scholar (Tiran Marutian) claims that Armenian Chalcedonians used the Georgian language, and that this should be the reason why the inscriptions of Oshki are written in Georgian, but this is a non-sustainable view: Both the carved reliefs and the remaining wall paintings at Oshki, as well as the inscriptions, are Georgian in their form and content.
Tao used to be Armenian until the eight century, but in the second half of the tenth century, when the monastery of Oshki was built, is was firmly in the hands of the Georgian Bagrationi. Please stick to the facts. Armenia is extremely rich in historical monuments from the middle ages - there should be no need to appropriate more. That's only very sad.
Greetings!
( Sofie ( talk) 10:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC))
Is there any non-Armenian source addressing the concerns raised by Sofie? The cited source is clearly problematic. In the period of Bagrat and David the region was already under Georgian influence. So the assertion that the church built by the Georgian princes in the 10th century belonged to the Armenians and later came under Georgian influence needs to be fortified by additional evidence or be removed. -- Kober Talk 04:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
In its current state, this article only provides a Georgian PoV, while this version, constantly reverted, represents the current state of knowledge about this place. Throughout its history, the place has been Iberian (Georgian) and/or Armenian, as reliable sources show it. Sardur ( talk) 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Can we provide a translation for the large section written in a foreign language or perhaps summarize its content? -- Frozenport ( talk) 01:35, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I have removed Robert Bevan, because he is talking about the Armenian church in Osk Vank, and the article is about Oshki, until we have an evidence that these are the same toponims. -- Melberg ( talk) 12:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
_ while the province of Tayk/Hayk has been predominantly Armenian in their homeland one can without doubt agree the influence and the presence of Georgians. But its silly to say Armenians left their homes after the Arab invasions and the Georgians took control of that region. take for example Ishkhanavank (princely monastery in Armenian) has Armenian inscriptions of Georgian language; which proves that indeed Armenians lived there. The construction of Oshki was led by Gregory Oshketsi ( Oshket"si" and Gregor being a very typical Armenian name and ending as well. Also names ending with ouni and ian). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Se.777333 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Vahram Mekhitarian:see my answer above.
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Armeno-Georgian marchland of Tao
Hi everbody! It is really nice to see that there are other people who are interested in the historical monuments of north-eastern Turkey. Please keep up the good work!
However, the description of the church at Oshki is far from complete, and more photographs would be very useful to convey the exceptional beauty of this building which, sadly, is in a very bad state of preservation, and which, if nothing is done to secure it, might colapse very soon.
If you have a recent photo of the widening crack in the north-western pendentive, please publish it on this page. It would also be good to have a photo of the deesis-relief (from the octagonal pier in the south-western porch) which was destroyed in 2000. Maybe somebody has a pre-2000 photograph of the carved relief of St Nino, too? It was placed on the north side of the now missing deesis-group.
What I do not understand, is the claim that "The monastery at Osk/Oski belonged to the Armenian Chalcedonians."
The monastery church of Oshki was, as correctly stated, built between 963 and 973 by the two Bagrationi brothers Bagrat and David. They were Georgians, I believe, and all the inscriptions on the facades of the church are in the Georgian language. I can therefore not see why Oshki should have been an Armenian Chalcedonian monastery. Could somebody please correct this?
I know that one Armenian scholar (Tiran Marutian) claims that Armenian Chalcedonians used the Georgian language, and that this should be the reason why the inscriptions of Oshki are written in Georgian, but this is a non-sustainable view: Both the carved reliefs and the remaining wall paintings at Oshki, as well as the inscriptions, are Georgian in their form and content.
Tao used to be Armenian until the eight century, but in the second half of the tenth century, when the monastery of Oshki was built, is was firmly in the hands of the Georgian Bagrationi. Please stick to the facts. Armenia is extremely rich in historical monuments from the middle ages - there should be no need to appropriate more. That's only very sad.
Greetings!
( Sofie ( talk) 10:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC))
Is there any non-Armenian source addressing the concerns raised by Sofie? The cited source is clearly problematic. In the period of Bagrat and David the region was already under Georgian influence. So the assertion that the church built by the Georgian princes in the 10th century belonged to the Armenians and later came under Georgian influence needs to be fortified by additional evidence or be removed. -- Kober Talk 04:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
In its current state, this article only provides a Georgian PoV, while this version, constantly reverted, represents the current state of knowledge about this place. Throughout its history, the place has been Iberian (Georgian) and/or Armenian, as reliable sources show it. Sardur ( talk) 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Can we provide a translation for the large section written in a foreign language or perhaps summarize its content? -- Frozenport ( talk) 01:35, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
I have removed Robert Bevan, because he is talking about the Armenian church in Osk Vank, and the article is about Oshki, until we have an evidence that these are the same toponims. -- Melberg ( talk) 12:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
_ while the province of Tayk/Hayk has been predominantly Armenian in their homeland one can without doubt agree the influence and the presence of Georgians. But its silly to say Armenians left their homes after the Arab invasions and the Georgians took control of that region. take for example Ishkhanavank (princely monastery in Armenian) has Armenian inscriptions of Georgian language; which proves that indeed Armenians lived there. The construction of Oshki was led by Gregory Oshketsi ( Oshket"si" and Gregor being a very typical Armenian name and ending as well. Also names ending with ouni and ian). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Se.777333 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Vahram Mekhitarian:see my answer above.