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This ORBAT is incomplete. I'm not a Wikipedia editor but the source you want is Jones, "War in the Air", which is available on line. 4th Army was supported by 4th Brigade, which in turn was composed of 3rd (Corps) Wing with mostly observer aircraft and 14th (Army) Wing which was mainly fighter planes ("scouts" in the RFC terminology of the time.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.157.114 ( talk) 13:40, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
I do not know under which Corps the following divisions served. Any assistance would be appreciated. Farawayman ( talk) 11:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Looking good so far. I have Gary Sheffield's The Somme, which includes the OOBs up to divisional level. Unfortunately, for some reason he does not group the divisions by Corps so I can't help with your question. Sorry. Even Ross Mallet's very comprehensive 1st AIF OOB site is silent on the subject in regards to Australian divisions
One question springs to mind about the Australian divisions, though. You have the five divisions grouped under 'ANZAC Corps'. Is this correct? My understanding is that in 1916 there were two Australian/New Zealand corps, 'I ANZAC Corps' and 'II ANZAC Corps', with the five Australian Divisions and one New Zealand division moving between the two at various stages (just to make your life hard). I think (not sure though) that it was 1st, 2nd and 4th Div in I Anzac and 3rd (arriving in France at the end of 1916), 5th and NZ Div in II Anzac (the 4th Div and NZ Div swapped around June-July 1916, as NZ Div was originally I ANZAC Corps and 4th Div belonged to II ANZAC before they changed). In November 1917 the five Australian divisions were grouped together to form the 'Australian Corps', while NZ Div became part of British XXII Corps.
The divisions were detached a lot, though, so sometimes there could be between two to four divisions in either I Anzac or II Anzac. So unfortunately the situation is difficult to say the least. Good luck with it, though! — AustralianRupert ( talk) 14:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The chart of the ORBAT for 1 July for 4th Army is excellent by III Corps is listed twice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.243.64.148 ( talk) 20:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Why are French forces treated as an afterthought? There is virtually no ToE for France. Is it because of a lack of sources or the Anglocentrism that typically characterizes discussion of the Western Front? The only reason British forces outnumbered the French at the Somme is that France had been hammered at Verdun for five months prior. 97.83.21.237 ( talk) 22:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Order of battle for the Battle of the Somme article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
|
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This ORBAT is incomplete. I'm not a Wikipedia editor but the source you want is Jones, "War in the Air", which is available on line. 4th Army was supported by 4th Brigade, which in turn was composed of 3rd (Corps) Wing with mostly observer aircraft and 14th (Army) Wing which was mainly fighter planes ("scouts" in the RFC terminology of the time.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.157.114 ( talk) 13:40, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
I do not know under which Corps the following divisions served. Any assistance would be appreciated. Farawayman ( talk) 11:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Looking good so far. I have Gary Sheffield's The Somme, which includes the OOBs up to divisional level. Unfortunately, for some reason he does not group the divisions by Corps so I can't help with your question. Sorry. Even Ross Mallet's very comprehensive 1st AIF OOB site is silent on the subject in regards to Australian divisions
One question springs to mind about the Australian divisions, though. You have the five divisions grouped under 'ANZAC Corps'. Is this correct? My understanding is that in 1916 there were two Australian/New Zealand corps, 'I ANZAC Corps' and 'II ANZAC Corps', with the five Australian Divisions and one New Zealand division moving between the two at various stages (just to make your life hard). I think (not sure though) that it was 1st, 2nd and 4th Div in I Anzac and 3rd (arriving in France at the end of 1916), 5th and NZ Div in II Anzac (the 4th Div and NZ Div swapped around June-July 1916, as NZ Div was originally I ANZAC Corps and 4th Div belonged to II ANZAC before they changed). In November 1917 the five Australian divisions were grouped together to form the 'Australian Corps', while NZ Div became part of British XXII Corps.
The divisions were detached a lot, though, so sometimes there could be between two to four divisions in either I Anzac or II Anzac. So unfortunately the situation is difficult to say the least. Good luck with it, though! — AustralianRupert ( talk) 14:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The chart of the ORBAT for 1 July for 4th Army is excellent by III Corps is listed twice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.243.64.148 ( talk) 20:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Why are French forces treated as an afterthought? There is virtually no ToE for France. Is it because of a lack of sources or the Anglocentrism that typically characterizes discussion of the Western Front? The only reason British forces outnumbered the French at the Somme is that France had been hammered at Verdun for five months prior. 97.83.21.237 ( talk) 22:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)