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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
User:Ritchie92 inspired me to share this draft with you, in the event that government trust numbers are added, either to this page or to the Conte I and II Cabinet pages.
As you can see I cannot do a work that is as thorough and complete as his. Kahlores ( talk) 01:59, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Opinion polling for the next Italian general election/Government approval
Talk:Opinion polling for the next Italian general election/Polling Government approval
Thank you for the tables. I think this does not really belong to this page, since in the Italian elections the Parliament is elected, not the government. This might be a table in another article about "Opinion polling for the Italian government approval", or something similar (see Leadership approval opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election), however I don't think it's very relevant (Italy is a parliamentary democracy, so government or leadership approval does not matter as much as party voting intentions). Of course if we decide to start such a page I would surely contribute to it. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 10:14, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to remove Cambiamo! -- 89.96.185.33 ( talk) 12:46, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As per the discussion above, requesting comments on the issue of the Government-support columns. Two questions: (Q1) Should the Government-support columns in the opinion polling tables be kept or removed? (Q2) Open-ended question: Notwithstanding your answer to Q1, in the event the columns were to be preserved, what should their formatting be? 19:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
*Keep – Finding a consistent wat to pick the government is simple: the government of the time! There is so nothing misleading: the result in the column changes consistently with the government of the time. --
Checco (
talk)
06:25, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
So, what have we decided? I see 6 users for "Delete" and 3 for "Keep". -- Nick.mon ( talk) 13:46, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Impru20: I noticed a weird thing with the curves plotted in the graph File:OpinionPollingItalyGeneralElectionNext.png (version 21:52, 2 January 2020) that you are maintaining: why do the lines already go beyond the line of January 2020 if there are still no new polls in January that have been included in the updated version of the graph? I think there might be some unwanted shift in the plotting routine. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 13:21, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Impru20: do you think you could apply my suggestion and solve the problem of the current graph, looking like it "predicts the future"? This is along the lines of WP:CRYSTAL I think, or at least it looks like it. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 23:49, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Does it make sense to include numbers (YouTrend) which are base on a super-average of polls? That is not a poll as such and hopefully all the polls used to calculate the average are in the table already -- FantinoFalco ( talk) 21:29, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I created a new opinion polling graph and I think it should replace the "old" graph beacuse it can be updated by everyone every month. What do you think about it?-- Facquis ( talk) 12:34, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@ User:Broncoviz, User:Civiltalatina, User:Altorio, User:Eddy world, User:Holapaco77, User:Impru20, User:Nick.mon, User:Ritchie92, User:Scia Della Cometa, User:Checco
Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. There is more info on Phabricator and on MediaWiki.org. |
I'd like to discuss about splitting up Italian Left and Article One in the table since half of the pollsters are doing it so.
Right now, Demos & Pi, Termometro Politico, Euromedia, Piepoli, Noto and Demopolis keeps polling the leftist parties as a whole, while Bidimedia, Index, Tecnè (only Italian Left, they stopped polling Article One a month ago), SWG, EMG and Ipsos are polling both parties. Lab2101 is messy since they poll either LeU AND The Left (since both lists were led by SI, are they counting the latter twice...?).
The reason of this change of mind is that, since the Draghi Cabinet, most pollsters started to split the two parties as Article One supported the new cabinet while Italian Left ultimately joined the opposition. As nobody knows how the leftist party will stand in the upcoming general election, I think we should consider rather to split them up or not.
@ User:Civiltalatina, User:Altorio, User:Eddy world, User:Holapaco77, User:Impru20, User:Nick.mon, User:Ritchie92, User:Scia Della Cometa, User:Checco, User:Facquis -- Broncoviz ( talk) 16:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
I do not know who finally got SI and Art.1 separated, but thanks to him/her and to all the other editors for not challenging that. That, as well as the creation of a new column for CI, was a great improvement. If someone is willing to do that and has time for that, SI and Art.1 should be separated also before May 2021, at least since Draghi's government. Unfortunately, I have no time for that. -- Checco ( talk) 14:05, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
the polling map should be updated every month… 5.168.17.74 ( talk) 13:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
even more so now that the elections in Italy will take place in two months, the map should be updated often impru20 do something! 151.71.84.89 ( talk) 14:34, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Broncoviz Why don't we make a single column +E-A for the whole 2022? In this moment it looks weird that a lot of rows have +E and A together, and starting from some random point in time we merge them. We can have a note saying that in the few cases where the parties were polled separately we show the sum of the two. Yakme ( talk) 08:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The last two polls added seem a little bit dubious. The first, by one prof.Enzo Rizzo, links only to the screenshot of an infographic from somewhere; the second is by G.D.C, Giornale di Chieti, the local newspaper of a small town. Both polls have been added by the same IP. 151.75.90.44 ( talk) 12:53, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Yakme ( talk) removed the G.D.C poll with no real reason. He cannot assume that this poll is a fake poll considering that it is published on the site of Presidenza del Consiglio, it respects what the law requires and contains all element requested such as the date, the sample size and features and the method of interview. It should be considered as a real survey until proven otherwise. EspertoPolitico ( talk) 09:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Is it legal to copy all the results of opinion polls conducted by private companies (published on their copyrighted sites or on the copyrighted site of the commissioner), and then paste all these copyrighted data into the table of the Wikipedia entry? All regular? Just an example: in the table I see the results of the 8-11 August opinion poll made by Tecnè srl (whose site says "Copyright @ 2022 Tecnè Italia. All rights reserved") on behalf of the commissioner RTI spa-Mediaset (whose site used as the source of the poll expressly states: "Copyright © 1999-2022 RTI S.p.A. - All rights reserved"). How "copyrighted data" can be compatible with the free licence used by wikipedia? Holapaco77 ( talk) 06:03, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
please impru10 update polling map! 158.148.112.179 ( talk) 15:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Many seat projections by Politiche2022 have been added, taken from their website. This website updates the projection almost daily, and editors are adding entries for each day, linking to the web.archive links archived on the day of the projection. However there is a problem: at the moment each of the Politiche2022 entries in the table looks like an independent new projection, while it is certainly not, because each projection is based on an average of other polls in the previous days. So for example the projection relative to 27 August is based on an average of polls that in part are the same polls used for the 26 August estimate, and so on. Note that the website does not say which polls it used for each new projection. So I do not think we are doing a good job in terms of clarity if we keep adding the updated projection of Politiche2022 as a new entry each day on top of the former ones. As far as I can see (this is the first time I learn of Politiche2022) this website in principle does something similar to what FiveThirtyEight does for the US elections; the difference is that the 538 projections are not added in opinion polling articles of US elections day by day. So I would suggest that – in order to avoid having a table that is over-representing Politiche2022 – we remove these kinds of projections made by poll aggregators from our table, and keep only the ones made by the pollsters themselves. Another option could be to create a "Polling aggregation" subsection to handle such type of data – in that section we only have to keep the latest up-to-date estimate (see the US case for example). Yakme ( talk) 20:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
User:Ritchie92 inspired me to share this draft with you, in the event that government trust numbers are added, either to this page or to the Conte I and II Cabinet pages.
As you can see I cannot do a work that is as thorough and complete as his. Kahlores ( talk) 01:59, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Opinion polling for the next Italian general election/Government approval
Talk:Opinion polling for the next Italian general election/Polling Government approval
Thank you for the tables. I think this does not really belong to this page, since in the Italian elections the Parliament is elected, not the government. This might be a table in another article about "Opinion polling for the Italian government approval", or something similar (see Leadership approval opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election), however I don't think it's very relevant (Italy is a parliamentary democracy, so government or leadership approval does not matter as much as party voting intentions). Of course if we decide to start such a page I would surely contribute to it. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 10:14, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Maybe it's time to remove Cambiamo! -- 89.96.185.33 ( talk) 12:46, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As per the discussion above, requesting comments on the issue of the Government-support columns. Two questions: (Q1) Should the Government-support columns in the opinion polling tables be kept or removed? (Q2) Open-ended question: Notwithstanding your answer to Q1, in the event the columns were to be preserved, what should their formatting be? 19:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
*Keep – Finding a consistent wat to pick the government is simple: the government of the time! There is so nothing misleading: the result in the column changes consistently with the government of the time. --
Checco (
talk)
06:25, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
So, what have we decided? I see 6 users for "Delete" and 3 for "Keep". -- Nick.mon ( talk) 13:46, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Impru20: I noticed a weird thing with the curves plotted in the graph File:OpinionPollingItalyGeneralElectionNext.png (version 21:52, 2 January 2020) that you are maintaining: why do the lines already go beyond the line of January 2020 if there are still no new polls in January that have been included in the updated version of the graph? I think there might be some unwanted shift in the plotting routine. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 13:21, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Impru20: do you think you could apply my suggestion and solve the problem of the current graph, looking like it "predicts the future"? This is along the lines of WP:CRYSTAL I think, or at least it looks like it. -- Ritchie92 ( talk) 23:49, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Does it make sense to include numbers (YouTrend) which are base on a super-average of polls? That is not a poll as such and hopefully all the polls used to calculate the average are in the table already -- FantinoFalco ( talk) 21:29, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I created a new opinion polling graph and I think it should replace the "old" graph beacuse it can be updated by everyone every month. What do you think about it?-- Facquis ( talk) 12:34, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@ User:Broncoviz, User:Civiltalatina, User:Altorio, User:Eddy world, User:Holapaco77, User:Impru20, User:Nick.mon, User:Ritchie92, User:Scia Della Cometa, User:Checco
Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. There is more info on Phabricator and on MediaWiki.org. |
I'd like to discuss about splitting up Italian Left and Article One in the table since half of the pollsters are doing it so.
Right now, Demos & Pi, Termometro Politico, Euromedia, Piepoli, Noto and Demopolis keeps polling the leftist parties as a whole, while Bidimedia, Index, Tecnè (only Italian Left, they stopped polling Article One a month ago), SWG, EMG and Ipsos are polling both parties. Lab2101 is messy since they poll either LeU AND The Left (since both lists were led by SI, are they counting the latter twice...?).
The reason of this change of mind is that, since the Draghi Cabinet, most pollsters started to split the two parties as Article One supported the new cabinet while Italian Left ultimately joined the opposition. As nobody knows how the leftist party will stand in the upcoming general election, I think we should consider rather to split them up or not.
@ User:Civiltalatina, User:Altorio, User:Eddy world, User:Holapaco77, User:Impru20, User:Nick.mon, User:Ritchie92, User:Scia Della Cometa, User:Checco, User:Facquis -- Broncoviz ( talk) 16:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
I do not know who finally got SI and Art.1 separated, but thanks to him/her and to all the other editors for not challenging that. That, as well as the creation of a new column for CI, was a great improvement. If someone is willing to do that and has time for that, SI and Art.1 should be separated also before May 2021, at least since Draghi's government. Unfortunately, I have no time for that. -- Checco ( talk) 14:05, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
the polling map should be updated every month… 5.168.17.74 ( talk) 13:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
even more so now that the elections in Italy will take place in two months, the map should be updated often impru20 do something! 151.71.84.89 ( talk) 14:34, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Broncoviz Why don't we make a single column +E-A for the whole 2022? In this moment it looks weird that a lot of rows have +E and A together, and starting from some random point in time we merge them. We can have a note saying that in the few cases where the parties were polled separately we show the sum of the two. Yakme ( talk) 08:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The last two polls added seem a little bit dubious. The first, by one prof.Enzo Rizzo, links only to the screenshot of an infographic from somewhere; the second is by G.D.C, Giornale di Chieti, the local newspaper of a small town. Both polls have been added by the same IP. 151.75.90.44 ( talk) 12:53, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Yakme ( talk) removed the G.D.C poll with no real reason. He cannot assume that this poll is a fake poll considering that it is published on the site of Presidenza del Consiglio, it respects what the law requires and contains all element requested such as the date, the sample size and features and the method of interview. It should be considered as a real survey until proven otherwise. EspertoPolitico ( talk) 09:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Is it legal to copy all the results of opinion polls conducted by private companies (published on their copyrighted sites or on the copyrighted site of the commissioner), and then paste all these copyrighted data into the table of the Wikipedia entry? All regular? Just an example: in the table I see the results of the 8-11 August opinion poll made by Tecnè srl (whose site says "Copyright @ 2022 Tecnè Italia. All rights reserved") on behalf of the commissioner RTI spa-Mediaset (whose site used as the source of the poll expressly states: "Copyright © 1999-2022 RTI S.p.A. - All rights reserved"). How "copyrighted data" can be compatible with the free licence used by wikipedia? Holapaco77 ( talk) 06:03, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
please impru10 update polling map! 158.148.112.179 ( talk) 15:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
Many seat projections by Politiche2022 have been added, taken from their website. This website updates the projection almost daily, and editors are adding entries for each day, linking to the web.archive links archived on the day of the projection. However there is a problem: at the moment each of the Politiche2022 entries in the table looks like an independent new projection, while it is certainly not, because each projection is based on an average of other polls in the previous days. So for example the projection relative to 27 August is based on an average of polls that in part are the same polls used for the 26 August estimate, and so on. Note that the website does not say which polls it used for each new projection. So I do not think we are doing a good job in terms of clarity if we keep adding the updated projection of Politiche2022 as a new entry each day on top of the former ones. As far as I can see (this is the first time I learn of Politiche2022) this website in principle does something similar to what FiveThirtyEight does for the US elections; the difference is that the 538 projections are not added in opinion polling articles of US elections day by day. So I would suggest that – in order to avoid having a table that is over-representing Politiche2022 – we remove these kinds of projections made by poll aggregators from our table, and keep only the ones made by the pollsters themselves. Another option could be to create a "Polling aggregation" subsection to handle such type of data – in that section we only have to keep the latest up-to-date estimate (see the US case for example). Yakme ( talk) 20:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)